Draconian or necessary?

[Copps is Magic]

[Goole Rover]

Unfortunately necessary. I was on the train to Charlton from London Bridge, the game that was abandoned. I had the misfortune to be in the same carriage as four silly old sod's fifty plus Rovers supporters who were out of their tree, appalling language in front of women and children. A complete embarrassment, I concealed my scarf. Read Dave Waugh's similar observation in our past fanzine.
We reap what we sow.

[Filo]

A signal failure at  scunny would be funny

[silent majority]

It's draconian and totally unnecessary. Its been shown over and over again that if you treat supporters as normal human beings you get a decent response from them. Treat people with total disrespect and that's what you get back.

The whole point of the meeting between both clubs some weeks ago was to avoid this type of message being put out.

[Copps is Magic]

Point five is just plain wrong. Point two seems to be a question of what they can actually do within the law.

[MrFrost]

I remember coming back from Scunny a few years ago and the Police wouldn't let me get off at Kirk Sandall even though I could see my house from the station. 

[Bentley Bullet]

I remember coming back from Rotherham one New Years Day a few years ago, when so many Rovers fans were forced  onto a train that it felt like it was going to topple over. I had my head wedged in between a police woman's cleavage all the way home and wasn't sure whether I'd die from crushing or suffocation.

Health and safety gone mad.

[BigKeif]

I remember coming back from Rotherham one New Years Day a few years ago, when so many Rovers fans were forced  onto a train that it felt like it was going to topple over. I had my head wedged in between a police woman's cleavage all the way home and wasn't sure whether I'd die from crushing or suffocation.

Health and safety gone mad.

I remember this. It was the New Year's Eve game and police were forcing supporters onto the train as it was mine and my best mates train home and they stuck the truncheon in his back and said if he didn't get on the train they'd lock him up etc.... we was 15 I think of something around that age.

[Bentley Bullet]

Aye New Years Eve, that was it.

[BigKeif]

Yes BB the police were the thugs on platform that day trying to get the trouble going.

[VivaRovers]

When I lived in Lincoln I used to get the train up to home games - made the mistake one week of not checking the other fixtures, and ended up on a train full of Lincoln fans heading to Hull.

When I got off at Doncaster, I was forced onto a train to Hull as the police refused to believe that I wasn't heading there. Manged to get out one of the other doors thankfully and show a different officer my Rovers season ticket.

[Bentley Bullet]

It certainly seemed that way, BK. The policewoman was none too pleased with the position of my head either, and I'm sure she'd have said summat if she wasn't terrified by the noise of the train's suspension thumping down as it reached its overloaded limit.

[silent majority]

If some Grimsby Town 'followers' hadn't gone and smashed up Burton-on-Trent when they got relegated a few years ago, there wouldn't be a need for any draconian measures to be put in place and just a strong and very visible police presence would suffice.

If they behave themselves at this game, maybe in a year or two such measures won't be as necessary.

There's still no reason for it. 99% of all football supporters are normal law abiding citizens and should be treated as such.

Large supermarkets suffer from shoplifters, should all shoppers be treated as criminals when going about their business? Of course not! You can't treat people who happen to like the game of football as a potential hooligan and adopt strong arm tactics for that reason. Show people respect and they'll show it back.

[wilts rover]

There was a lot of trouble at a pre-season friendly with Sheff U this summer
http://www.lincolnshirelive.co.uk/hooligans-pelt-police-with-bottles-in-grimsby-town-vs-sheffield-united-standoff/story-29545601-detail/story.htm

with 17 people from Grimsby appearing in court last week
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-humber-38239346

and with some of the toe rags who associate with us (remember Bury) it is very naive to belive that some people wont attempt to use the opportunity of Saturdays match to cause trouble in Doncaster - and its up to the Police to stop them.

Draconian perhaps, understandable certainly.

[silent majority]

Sorry Wilts, still can't agree. The Police, and other interested parties, know who the 'risk supporters' are and therefore it's those who should be the focus of their attention. Targeting the right suspects is the correct way to maximise Police resources and therefore the rest of the law abiding support can go about their business as normal.

That's the commonly accepted practice these days, the broad brush approach is not the right way.

[Bentley Bullet]

I wonder if there will ever be a time when the 90 odd % of us who have never caused trouble in our lives will be given a chance to prove ourselves as decent citizens and be allowed to have a pint while watching a match?

[silent majority]

I wonder if there will ever be a time when the 90 odd % of us who have never caused trouble in our lives will be given a chance to prove ourselves as decent citizens and be allowed to have a pint while watching a match?

I would say yes, and sometime soon. It's FSF policy, but in recent talks the EFL have also stated it's their position too and they'll be lobbying for a change.

[bobjimwilly]

I understand the 1st point; the rest of it is totally unnecessary.

[colincramb]

To be fair, with the game kicking off at the time it is, is there any need for people to boozing on the train at that time of the morning!? I think not and completely agree with it being dry. If they can't wait 50 minutes or so for a beer then something is wrong.

Unfortunately alcohol is a pre requisite for trouble. Don't see how they've got a choice on this

[The Red Baron]

I understand the 1st point; the rest of it is totally unnecessary.

Yes, I can understand the dry trains. But the rest seems OTT. Surely more effective just to target known troublemakers.

[steve@dcfd]

This a busy train service going on to Sheffield and Manchester.
The game is early so there is no need for drinking at that time.
Grimsby supporters will have bought a ticket for the game.
Any who haven't can't get in the game so checking is not a step to far.
Travelling on trains is for the public and their enjoyment and should not be spoilt by any mindless people whether their supporters or not.

[glosterred]

Fair warning given, if you fall foul of what has been said, it's your own fault

COYR

[silent majority]

This a busy train service going on to Sheffield and Manchester.
The game is early so there is no need for drinking at that time.
Grimsby supporters will have bought a ticket for the game.
Any who haven't can't get in the game so checking is not a step to far.
Travelling on trains is for the public and their enjoyment and should not be spoilt by any mindless people whether their supporters or not.

But with the Police acting outside the limits of their powers do you not feel some concern? Or that yet again football supporters are treated as second class citizens? Or that those supporters who have no intention of causing trouble and are law abiding stand up people will be subject to restrictions imposed on them to curtail their enjoyment?

[ballysbackin]

There was a lot of trouble at a pre-season friendly with Sheff U this summer
http://www.lincolnshirelive.co.uk/hooligans-pelt-police-with-bottles-in-grimsby-town-vs-sheffield-united-standoff/story-29545601-detail/story.htm

with 17 people from Grimsby appearing in court last week
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-humber-38239346

and with some of the toe rags who associate with us (remember Bury) it is very naive to belive that some people wont attempt to use the opportunity of Saturdays match to cause trouble in Doncaster - and its up to the Police to stop them.

Draconian perhaps, understandable certainly.

Wilts, just to enhance your point there are 15 of those who appeared been forwarded to Grimsby CC for trial, such is the feeling towards football hooliganism and at CC their sentence will be  and can be more severe, I think the Blades fans are at Grimsby MC tomorrow or were at last Thursdays Court. Now the Police have a first duty to "Protect Life and Property".. I see nothing wrong in what they have imposed. Rather obviously I know but for the same reason my young daughter and other mates not taking kids and grand children because of those nobs down Clee Rd.

[ballysbackin]

This a busy train service going on to Sheffield and Manchester.
The game is early so there is no need for drinking at that time.
Grimsby supporters will have bought a ticket for the game.
Any who haven't can't get in the game so checking is not a step to far.
Travelling on trains is for the public and their enjoyment and should not be spoilt by any mindless people whether their supporters or not.

But with the Police acting outside the limits of their powers do you not feel some concern? Or that yet again football supporters are treated as second class citizens? Or that those supporters who have no intention of causing trouble and are law abiding stand up people will be subject to restrictions imposed on them to curtail their enjoyment?

Rather be safe than sorry, if they do nothing they are pilloried if they do something they are pilloried .  Over reaction, well we wait and see

[IDM]

So what if you are a person who has no interest in football, and doesn't check football related social media etc, but who lives on that train route and wants to travel in that direction on Saturday morning??

[bobjimwilly]

Travelling on trains is for the public and their enjoyment and should not be spoilt by any mindless people whether their supporters or not.

So what if you are a person who has no interest in football, and doesn't check football related social media etc, but who lives on that train route and wants to travel in that direction on Saturday morning??

Was just about to post same thing IDM:

What if you aren't going to the match, but you and your mates happen to be getting off at Doncaster for whatever reason; all of a sudden you're being sniffed be sniffer dogs, took to one side and searched and questioned by the police? For no reason than your a young man getting off the train at Donny?
Does that sound fair?

[ballysbackin]

I would think that before you ever got on the train en route or from Cleethorpes, sense would prevail, if you got off at Donny and subjected to what you have described, again it would seem obvious. BUT you could make a formal complaint (In this day and age it seems the rule of thumb). But how would the Police single you out on a train full of fans (possibly because you were the only ones behaving?). I say again there is no win in this, somebody will complain of over cautious actions and some complain that not enough was done. Let us just hope that everybody who intends to go to that match and does so gets home in one piece without injury or worse, may all innocent people on the train, and shopping in Donny feel not threatened, and if it goes pear shaped let us all hope that sufficient action is going to be taken, other than that a BIG win for Donny

[silent majority]

You are an insolent and rude individual. Your ignorance and lack of experience of Policing football crowds is pretty obvious whereas the old cronies at the FSF and myself have been involved in this for over twenty five years. I myself started out with the FSF because of the issues following England around the world, and being an England supporter I can guarantee that turning up for an away game and being treated like shit  is not the way to Police a football crowd. Because of our experience in these areas we regularly advise Police forces, here in the UK and overseas, about the best way to handle football crowds. We have several very well educated lecturers and trained crowd behaviour experts in our ranks, we attend every single pre-visit carried out by British Police before any national game is played, we are heavily involved in planning for all major tournaments and recently FIFA, following the UEFA lead, has suggested that every nation will adopt the Fans Embassy approach, something we pioneered 20 years ago. The responsibility for Policing football in this country and England fans abroad, lies with the Home Office, utilising the UKFPU (UK Football Police Unit) and they have been partnering with the FSF for as long as I can remember.

We have a full time employee, paid for out of Football Foundation grants, whose job it is to liaise with supporters, Police forces, safety advisory groups and any other statutory bodies to ensure that football supporters are treated correctly, fairly and within the law.

Yes respect has to be earned, but that cuts both ways. If you treat supporters with respect they give it back, treat them badly and that's what you get, bad behaviour. Unfortunately for you, respect is something that you have in short supply.

[Pancho Regan]

Well said SM.