Stay or Go

[drfchound]

So he should, he took over a championship side.
He agreed to those circumstances so must have thought he could keep us up just like ferguson did.
And both were quoted as pushing for promotion when taking over, both got relegated

Saunders didn't get relegated from L1 and I can't ever remember Rovers being quoted as promotion favourites from the Championship.

[RoversAlias]

I don't think we'd have won the league under him personally.

Based on what? the football might've been shite to watch but f**king hell it was effective, and he had that team running through brick walls for each other. I don't think it's any coincidence Cotterill went to shit after he left in terms of overall performances.

Based on my opinion, as I already said. We were not running away with the league under him by any means, indeed it took us some time to gel together that season and we had won quite a few games by a narrow margin usually by one player's individual brilliance - Cotterill in Saunders' last game in charge springs to mind - then Flynn took over and kept us in the top 2 for half the season, dragging us over the line along with the squad leaders like Jones.

Saunders has never shown himself to be a good football manager at all, not in his time with us nor anywhere else.

[dickos1]

So he should, he took over a championship side.
He agreed to those circumstances so must have thought he could keep us up just like ferguson did.
And both were quoted as pushing for promotion when taking over, both got relegated

Saunders didn't get relegated from L1 and I can't ever remember Rovers being quoted as promotion favourites from the Championship.

It's irrelevant what league it was, we'd been established in the championship for a number of years.
He got us relegated out the league we were in,

We're not quoted as favourites for league 1 under ferguson either

[drfchound]

So he should, he took over a championship side.
He agreed to those circumstances so must have thought he could keep us up just like ferguson did.
And both were quoted as pushing for promotion when taking over, both got relegated

Saunders didn't get relegated from L1 and I can't ever remember Rovers being quoted as promotion favourites from the Championship.

It's irrelevant what league it was, we'd been established in the championship for a number of years.
He got us relegated out the league we were in,

We're not quoted as favourites for league 1 under ferguson either

You manipulate the words to suit your case mate.
We were anything but an established Championship side, we escaped the drop by the skin of our teeth the year before the experiment took us down.

You say both were quoted as pushing for promotion when they took over but surely you aren't saying that Rovers would have been likely to have been pushing for promotion from the Championship when Saunders took over.

[RoversAlias]

He might be referring to the fact John Ryan promised all these big name signings, then offered up Chris Kirkland and a bunch of unknown French/African nobodies. But, that is on JR rather than Saunders really.

[dickos1]

Saunders said after the win at Peterborough that we were looking to get in the playoffs and the quality we'd be signing would be good enough for us to get there.

It was our 4th season in the championship,

[RedJ]

Do you ever think maybe he was sold a crock of shit?

[RoversAlias]

Gonna say, it was at that Peterborough game that John Ryan - not Saunders - walked into the away end before the match, stood right in front of us all and promised some "very surprising" signings of "real top quality". Think RedJ has nailed it with that one.

[dickos1]

I know he did I was There when Ryan came over, but Saunders also said it after we won the game.

Saunders knew the players we would be signing, and some of them were amongst the best players we've ever had

[RedJ]

Yeah, probably about three of them. The rest were the likes of Lamina Diatta and Damien Plessis, neither of which anyone can confirm the existence of, Kirkland who played one game, Goulon and Ilunga. Some of the players we signed that year absolutely stole a living from us and from the game.

[RoversAlias]

The entire thing was a shambles and a terrible strategy. It was enacted by John Ryan, not by Saunders who merely signed up for the scheme.

Bar Diouf, who brought with him off-the-field unprofessionalism as well as his on-pitch talents, who in that experiment really was worth it? The team was filled with dross and stealing a living is exactly the way to describe it.

[MrFrost]

The entire thing was a shambles and a terrible strategy. It was enacted by John Ryan, not by Saunders who merely signed up for the scheme.

Bar Diouf, who brought with him off-the-field unprofessionalism as well as his on-pitch talents, who in that experiment really was worth it? The team was filled with dross and stealing a living is exactly the way to describe it.

The other directors must have also agreed to the plan.

[RoversAlias]

The entire thing was a shambles and a terrible strategy. It was enacted by John Ryan, not by Saunders who merely signed up for the scheme.

Bar Diouf, who brought with him off-the-field unprofessionalism as well as his on-pitch talents, who in that experiment really was worth it? The team was filled with dross and stealing a living is exactly the way to describe it.

The other directors must have also agreed to the plan.

Aye no doubt, but I guess I was trying to defend Saunders after Dickos out an alleged promotion claim on his shoulders.

[RedJ]

The entire thing was a shambles and a terrible strategy. It was enacted by John Ryan, not by Saunders who merely signed up for the scheme.

Bar Diouf, who brought with him off-the-field unprofessionalism as well as his on-pitch talents, who in that experiment really was worth it? The team was filled with dross and stealing a living is exactly the way to describe it.

The other directors must have also agreed to the plan.

We all know how good John Ryan is at selling a dream.





And before I get slated, that isn't a personal attack on him. I do think he genuinely believed that it was the right way forward and that he himself probably got sold a crock of shit as well, but what's done is done.

[graingrover]

I am not surprised to see over 70% voting stay . Have you noticed how the moaners seem to choose the gents' toilets at half time ,when we all have other things in hand,to argue the toss !
   The placement of commas is sometimes crucial.

[RedJ]

Thinly veiled way of saying anyone who doesn't agree with you is a w**ker, eh?

[drfchound]

I am not surprised to see over 70% voting stay . Have you noticed how the moaners seem to choose the gents' toilets at half time ,when we all have other things in hand,to argue the toss !
   The placement of commas is sometimes crucial.

Why do people who don't think DF is the man to take the club into the Championship get classed as moaners by those who think he is Gods gift.
It could be argued that the 30% on here who are saying go are concerned that the club might be heading back to L2.

[sheffield exile1]

Personally I am sick of Ferguson vs Saunders vs Dickov on here. Hound is correct does it matter who took us where as long as he doesn't take us back down to L2 this year. Sure we can examine if Dave Mackay's record beat Wignall's or Billy's or Lawrie Mac's if you are getting bored. At the moment I don't see him getting us out of the current form loss...(including back end of last season). Hope he proves me wrong.

[dickos1]

I am not surprised to see over 70% voting stay . Have you noticed how the moaners seem to choose the gents' toilets at half time ,when we all have other things in hand,to argue the toss !
   The placement of commas is sometimes crucial.

Why do people who don't think DF is the man to take the club into the Championship get classed as moaners by those who think he is Gods gift.
It could be argued that the 30% on here who are saying go are concerned that the club might be heading back to L2.

Why do people who don't think we should sack a manager after promotion and 11 games in the higher division get classed as having blind faith or wearing rose tinted specs.

[graingrover]

I think the answer to that requires recourse to a Sociologist Dickos ,rather than to a football analyst.

[DearneValleyRover]

Well I haven't voted nor am I going to. The aim this year is to not be relegated, we aren't in the bottom 4 despite results and there are another 35 games to go. With respect to the Fergie v Dickov arguement despite the results under Fergie in the main the football is worth watching, under Dickov I was losing the will to live.

[Mr1Croft]

I’m of the 30% and whilst I can understand why people think we shouldn’t knee jerk and show him the door, I base my opinion purely on the target he was given when he was announced as the manager 2 years ago: Achieve Championship Football.

2 years and what ground has been made by Ferguson to achieve that? He took a squad built with the ambition of reaching the play-offs through a wretched 17 games without a win and he had no idea how to turn it around (other than continuing to play ATS), the squad were showing no motivation, no courage and no passion. After pushing Jones out there was a serious lack of leadership in the dressing room (although Copps would keep the armband with Ferguson notoriously claiming at the end of the season ‘if it’s not broke don’t fix it’). He shipped out Forrester and Curtis Main (who both had very little playing time, with Main helping Relegation rivals Oldham stay up at our expense) and we had to rely on loan signings such as an unproven Lyndon Gooch and Father Time McSheffrey. Our Relegation was epitomised at Crewe away when in the dying moments an already relegated Crewe side took the ball to the corner with the Rovers players nearest stood still, watching the clock run down.

Last season Ferguson faced no budget cuts to his first team squad, with only Portsmouth having a bigger budget. We threw away our lead in the hunt for the title and lost what was ultimately a 1 horse race. For some reason only known by Ferguson, a back four that had us top of the league was switched around to include the returning ATS (who has the worst win ratio for any Rovers player with 50+ games in recent history). Once again summed up at the final game of the season when he subbed Copps (arguably our most attacking minded midfielder) for ATS, and later said he did it ‘for the height’.

We are entering his final year and a return to the Championship couldn’t look further away. I personally don’t want Championship Football immediatley, having just come up we do need to consolidate but I’d like to see passion, pride and fire from the players. We’re not seeing that, we’re rolling over in too many games and no matter how many times he chops and changes the squad we don’t get any better. We concede too easily from set pieces, from open play, from kick off, in injury time. We either don’t create enough chances or we’re not clinical enough to take them. He hasn’t recruited enough quality and sadly our best hope this season is a player who 12 months ago was a part time builder and Hythe Town Striker.

We’re no better off than we were under Dickov after 2 years. It’s not progressive and whilst I like Fergie and want him to succeed, I’m afraid my head rules my heart and that he has overstayed his welcome.

[sheffield exile1]

Well I haven't voted nor am I going to. The aim this year is to not be relegated, we aren't in the bottom 4 despite results and there are another 35 games to go. With respect to the Fergie v Dickov arguement despite the results under Fergie in the main the football is worth watching, under Dickov I was losing the will to live.

Agree with the comment about us playing decent football except for the fragility of the defence, decent football is not all about how we attack its also about we defend or don't as per Scunthorpe and the fisaco on Saturday. Lets face it we are largely shocking at set pieces, Charlie Wyke had a free header, had we not heard of him, cos I had, and what he is very good at. Mentally we seem not right. How we didn't get something against Shrewsbury escapes me, agree the Marosi substitution didn't help, but we don't seem to have that killer instinct and real desire to win, and we seemed to have lost it from last games of last season and never really got it back to me. If and I think its a big if, we start soon turning it round soon, then good on the team/manager but at the moment week in week out its all about silly set pieces and lack of direction/desire call it what you will....

[dickos1]

Dickov was sacked after 16 months following relegation because we never looked like getting back into the league we were in when he joined, after he got us relegated.
Ferguson has got us back to the league we were in when he took over at the first attempt.

Surely the target of championship football needed to be reconsidered after relegation to league 2, once he wasn't sacked then, our aspirations needed to be looked at.
Promotion was the aim, we achieved that easily and now we're back in the same league, people who are suggesting we should be going straight up to the championship need to assess their expectations

[RedJ]

Dickov was sacked after 16 months following relegation because we never looked like getting back into the league we were in when he joined, after he got us relegated.
Ferguson has got us back to the league we were in when he took over at the first attempt.

Yes, after getting us relegated to it when we never should've been. Doncaster Rovers being relegated from the Championship, even in the position we were in, is hardly a shock. Being relegated to League Two after being around 12th at Christmas is a f**king disaster, especially after 17 games without a win.

So you're telling me you think Ferguson can get us back into the Championship why exactly?

[steve@dcfd]

Quote Mr1Croft

I base my opinion purely on the target he was given when he was announced as the manager 2 years ago: Achieve Championship Football.

Is our budget the same as Sheff Utd, Bolton Wanderers and Millwall who were promoted last year. As you like Martin appear to know the figures. What is our budget compared with those teams. I don’t want to know it’s competitive anybody can say that. If you are telling me we have had to sign young loan players on the the same value as league 1 quality players because that’s what DF wants. Quality comes at a price I’m of the opinion our Chairman, CEO and owners set targets but can they really give the manager a budget equivalent to the promoted teams last year.

Now it’s not all about money DF has made decisions that sometimes are baffling but he can only go with the players he has.

[dickos1]

Dickov was sacked after 16 months following relegation because we never looked like getting back into the league we were in when he joined, after he got us relegated.
Ferguson has got us back to the league we were in when he took over at the first attempt.

Yes, after getting us relegated to it when we never should've been. Doncaster Rovers being relegated from the Championship, even in the position we were in, is hardly a shock. Being relegated to League Two after being around 12th at Christmas is a f**king disaster, especially after 17 games without a win.

So you're telling me you think Ferguson can get us back into the Championship why exactly?

We got as high as 12th because of ferguson we were 22nd when he took over.

I'm not telling you ferguson can get us into the championship in that post am I?

But I think he's got as good a chance as anyone, it's just mental speaking about sacking managers after 12 games in a new, higher division.

[RedJ]

Dickov was sacked after 16 months following relegation because we never looked like getting back into the league we were in when he joined, after he got us relegated.
Ferguson has got us back to the league we were in when he took over at the first attempt.

Yes, after getting us relegated to it when we never should've been. Doncaster Rovers being relegated from the Championship, even in the position we were in, is hardly a shock. Being relegated to League Two after being around 12th at Christmas is a f**king disaster, especially after 17 games without a win.

So you're telling me you think Ferguson can get us back into the Championship why exactly?

We got as high as 12th because of ferguson we were 22nd when he took over.

I'm not telling you ferguson can get us into the championship in that post am I?

But I think he's got as good a chance as anyone, it's just mental speaking about sacking managers after 12 games in a new, higher division.

Yes, and we ended up back in the bottom four because of his stubbornness when he could've dropped a system that clearly wasn't working.

No, but you clearly do think he is the man to get us there. Christ alone knows why. Or why you think he's got as good a chance as anyone when in recent past he's been bang average at this level.

[RoversAlias]

I swear this argument will just go on until the end of the season, when our final league position will be the only thing to prove anyone involved right or wrong.

[dickos1]

Dickov was sacked after 16 months following relegation because we never looked like getting back into the league we were in when he joined, after he got us relegated.
Ferguson has got us back to the league we were in when he took over at the first attempt.

Yes, after getting us relegated to it when we never should've been. Doncaster Rovers being relegated from the Championship, even in the position we were in, is hardly a shock. Being relegated to League Two after being around 12th at Christmas is a f**king disaster, especially after 17 games without a win.

So you're telling me you think Ferguson can get us back into the Championship why exactly?

We got as high as 12th because of ferguson we were 22nd when he took over.

I'm not telling you ferguson can get us into the championship in that post am I?

But I think he's got as good a chance as anyone, it's just mental speaking about sacking managers after 12 games in a new, higher division.

Yes, and we ended up back in the bottom four because of his stubbornness when he could've dropped a system that clearly wasn't working.

No, but you clearly do think he is the man to get us there. Christ alone knows why. Or why you think he's got as good a chance as anyone when in recent past he's been bang average at this level.

Bang average?
Have you actually looked at his record?
I doubt there's many managers with a better record than his at this level