Think I’m “time to go”

[drfchound]

In the first half today we were far and away much better than Rotherham and at half time I thought we might go on and win the match.
I think Anderson’s injury was a big turning point as he had dominated their forwards.
We all know about the “what happens when Coppinger comes off” fact but I was surprised that Ferguson made the decision to make the change as we were about to defend a free kick.
Now I know that Copps wouldn’t have been in there to head the ball away but not many managers make a change when they are about to defend a situation like that do they.
However the defenders were obviously distracted because the bloke headed in unchallenged.
It was an unusual thing to do when the player coming off wasn’t injured.

We were worth a point today and it is probably the worst I have felt all season at the end of a game.

[dickos1]

Not really no.
But I'm sure since the Oldham game in mid December today was the first time we'd conceded any late goals.
So we had obviously sorted it as we'd conceded 8 or 9 before that!

So your not counting the goal Bristol Rovers scored in the 85th minute at the end of January then?

We did say after the 85th minute but you can have that one if you really want it.

[dickos1]

Bristol Rovers 85min and Portsmouth 81min.

Balanced against that though were our goals in 90min v Scunthorpe, Peterborough and Charlton.

We did say after the 85th minute though

[Chris Black come back]

I didn't though.

[dickos1]

You joined in a conversation and gave examples that were irrelevant then

[Akinfenwa]

What's to say about Ferguson that hasn't been said a million times before?

He hasn't got a clue how to react when we're defending a point (or three) and the other team cranks up the pressure. Just defend the penalty area and hope for the best. Twelve!! points lost after the 85 minute mark this season tells its own story, yet only three gained in the same time period. He is truly a master of snatching defeat from the jaws of victory.

I don't know about anyone else but I'm sick of that humiliating feeling, like having your pants pulled down, conceding in the last minute again and again. And even worse, knowing that it's coming.

I'm tired of seeing the embarrassingly negative time wasting / stifling tactics deployed in these situations on a regular basis, despite the fact that it doesn't even f**king work half the time.

I'm frustrated with the half-baked idea that this team can just sit back, invite pressure and hope that we get lucky when defending endless waves of attacks, and offering very little threat at the other end. How many more times are we going to get our fingers burnt with this shit?

I'm annoyed at our incompetence when it comes to defending set-pieces. Ten goals conceded from these just in this calendar year, and it doesn't look like stopping.

So do I have ever increasing doubts with someone who delivers the above approach to football? Of course. And that's regardless of whether we stay up / finish mid-table or whatever this season.

[drfchound]

Post number 34 mentions the 80th minute, not the 85th.

[Chris Black come back]

You joined in a conversation and gave examples that were irrelevant then

You asked the question "How many have we scored after the 80th minute?".

You literally set the parameters as being after the 80th minute.

[dickos1]

Cantley stated we had conceded 10 after the 85th min and scored 5.
We were just identifying that the majority of that ten were between august and mid December.
Up until today we hadn't conceded any after the 85th min since the Oldham game.
So we had managed to sort it out

[The Red Baron]

Over Christmas we beat Bristol Rovers, Northampton and Rochdale.
We then drew against Peterborough, Plymouth, Shrewsbury and Scunthorpe. All of whom were either in-form or challenging for promotion/play-offs.
We then lost our last defender against Bristol Rovers and lost.
We then draw against two more decent sides in Charlton and Portsmouth.
The Walsall shambles, which in these games I've mentioned is probably easily our worst performance.
Easily beat Fleetwood.
Narrowly lose to in-form Rotherham in the 103rd minute.


So we're drawing against decent teams, beating the worst teams, had bad luck against Bristol Rovers at home and one terrible result against Walsall and people want him gone. The short termism is hilarious. If we win like 7 out of 10 would people be calling for a knighthood and freedom of the town?

Going from recent form of beating most of teams below us, drawing against better teams, with the odd defeat here and there.

Bury (H)
Southend (A)
Bradford (H)
Blackburn (H)
Blackpool (A) - Blackpool at Easter again wtf?
Wimbledon (H)
Gillingham (A)
MK Dons (A)
Oxford (H)
Oldham (A)
Wigan (H)

We should manage around 15 points IMO.

Forget about Blackburn and Wigan but there are four or five winnable games in there. The others we should be looking to get a draw.

[drfchound]

Wish I could be as confident as you about four or five winnable games TRB.

[dickos1]

Bury, Bradford, mk dons, Oldham, oxford, Wimbledon, Blackpool,
We need to be getting at least ten points from these

[andysly]

With the exception of Blackburn, Wigan & probably Gillingham none of those fixtures should overly worry us.
We’ll get at least 12, maybe 16 from those games.

[PDX_Rover]

Having time to reflect... dead unlucky today. We were much the better team first half. They came at us second half. Anderson going off really turned the game. A draw was probably a fair result given their pressure in the last half hour.

The penalty. Never a penno. Ref totally mugged.

[drfchound]

With the exception of Blackburn, Wigan & probably Gillingham none of those fixtures should overly worry us.
We’ll get at least 12, maybe 16 from those games.

I wonder what the thoughts will be if we fail to get say, 10 or 12 points from those seven games.

[Campsall rover]

I’m pleased he has found someone else to argue with. 

[Campsall rover]

Bury, Bradford, mk dons, Oldham, oxford, Wimbledon, Blackpool,
We need to be getting at least ten points from these

I’m banking on 12/13 points from those above fixtures. But then i am always a positive half glass full person. Positive thinking. 56/57 min no of points final tally. 
 

[keith79]

1 win in 2018' tells me every game is going to be hard.

[Herman Hessian]

right...

for everyone who thinks Ferguson is a shite manager, and Rovers are having a poor season, where exactly do you really think in your heart of hearts think we should be ?

we've existed, barely, in the second tier of english football for six seasons over the last sixty (count 'em - sixty) years; on the back of a multi-millionaire benefactor and his collusion with other well-monied individuals, who somehow enabled us to punch way above our weight for a short time before falling back to where we historically, and realistically, should be

look at the championship - there are probably two clubs that we can sensibly look at and think "we should be as good as them" (Brentford and Burton) - they are enjoying their outlier seasons in the sun, same as we did - replace them with blackburn and wigan, and there's arguably no-one in the higher level that we "should" replace based on any sensible criterion

even in league one, there are ten clubs or thereabouts who have a more rational claim to compete at a higher level - we're about where we should be, bobbing about in mid-table, hoping for the planets to align and a team of capable, well-adjusted players to coalesce more by luck than judgement; youth development seems to be at best treading water with regard to the number of genuine first team impact players who come through, we have no benefactor - it would take an absolute genius manager to get a play-off push out of the current squad, and genius managers - strangely enough - are few and far between

the angst on here at the perceived lack of upward momentum staggers me - but maybe i'm missing something - tell me why we should be doing better, how it should happen and for what quantifiable reasons other than blind faith and hope; to constantly criticise for reality not coming up to scratch compared to nothing more than pipe-dreams seems asinine, deluded almost - and don't get me started on moaning about the quality of performance in games where points are forthcoming...

maybe it's the demographic on here - more folk who started watching in the first decade of this century where promotions and visits to elland road, bramall lane, st andrews and the like were on the menu season after season rather than colchester, accrington and barnet - is it only miserable old gits who have any genuine sense of perspective on things ?

[dickos1]

With the exception of Blackburn, Wigan & probably Gillingham none of those fixtures should overly worry us.
We’ll get at least 12, maybe 16 from those games.

I wonder what the thoughts will be if we fail to get say, 10 or 12 points from those seven games.

 8 games.
We need 8 points from 12 games so if we manage to get 10 from 8 games I would think everyone would be happy. As we'd be safe with another 4 games to go

[dickos1]

right...

for everyone who thinks Ferguson is a shite manager, and Rovers are having a poor season, where exactly do you really think in your heart of hearts think we should be ?

we've existed, barely, in the second tier of english football for six seasons over the last sixty (count 'em - sixty) years; on the back of a multi-millionaire benefactor and his collusion with other well-monied individuals, who somehow enabled us to punch way above our weight for a short time before falling back to where we historically, and realistically, should be

look at the championship - there are probably two clubs that we can sensibly look at and think "we should be as good as them" (Brentford and Burton) - they are enjoying their outlier seasons in the sun, same as we did - replace them with blackburn and wigan, and there's arguably no-one in the higher level that we "should" replace based on any sensible criterion

even in league one, there are ten clubs or thereabouts who have a more rational claim to compete at a higher level - we're about where we should be, bobbing about in mid-table, hoping for the planets to align and a team of capable, well-adjusted players to coalesce more by luck than judgement; youth development seems to be at best treading water with regard to the number of genuine first team impact players who come through, we have no benefactor - it would take an absolute genius manager to get a play-off push out of the current squad, and genius managers - strangely enough - are few and far between

the angst on here at the perceived lack of upward momentum staggers me - but maybe i'm missing something - tell me why we should be doing better, how it should happen and for what quantifiable reasons other than blind faith and hope; to constantly criticise for reality not coming up to scratch compared to nothing more than pipe-dreams seems asinine, deluded almost - and don't get me started on moaning about the quality of performance in games where points are forthcoming...

maybe it's the demographic on here - more folk who started watching in the first decade of this century where promotions and visits to elland road, bramall lane, st andrews and the like were on the menu season after season rather than colchester, accrington and barnet - is it only miserable old gits who have any genuine sense of perspective on things ?

Best post I've read on here in a very long time

[drfchound]

Bury, Bradford, mk dons, Oldham, oxford, Wimbledon, Blackpool,
We need to be getting at least ten points from these

With the exception of Blackburn, Wigan & probably Gillingham none of those fixtures should overly worry us.
We’ll get at least 12, maybe 16 from those games.

I wonder what the thoughts will be if we fail to get say, 10 or 12 points from those seven games.

 8 games.
We need 8 points from 12 games so if we manage to get 10 from 8 games I would think everyone would be happy. As we'd be safe with another 4 games to go

I could have sworn I saw someone list seven games earlier and suggest we needed ten points from them.

Maybe not.

[Chris Black come back]

right...

for everyone who thinks Ferguson is a shite manager, and Rovers are having a poor season, where exactly do you really think in your heart of hearts think we should be ?

we've existed, barely, in the second tier of english football for six seasons over the last sixty (count 'em - sixty) years; on the back of a multi-millionaire benefactor and his collusion with other well-monied individuals, who somehow enabled us to punch way above our weight for a short time before falling back to where we historically, and realistically, should be

look at the championship - there are probably two clubs that we can sensibly look at and think "we should be as good as them" (Brentford and Burton) - they are enjoying their outlier seasons in the sun, same as we did - replace them with blackburn and wigan, and there's arguably no-one in the higher level that we "should" replace based on any sensible criterion

even in league one, there are ten clubs or thereabouts who have a more rational claim to compete at a higher level - we're about where we should be, bobbing about in mid-table, hoping for the planets to align and a team of capable, well-adjusted players to coalesce more by luck than judgement; youth development seems to be at best treading water with regard to the number of genuine first team impact players who come through, we have no benefactor - it would take an absolute genius manager to get a play-off push out of the current squad, and genius managers - strangely enough - are few and far between

the angst on here at the perceived lack of upward momentum staggers me - but maybe i'm missing something - tell me why we should be doing better, how it should happen and for what quantifiable reasons other than blind faith and hope; to constantly criticise for reality not coming up to scratch compared to nothing more than pipe-dreams seems asinine, deluded almost - and don't get me started on moaning about the quality of performance in games where points are forthcoming...

maybe it's the demographic on here - more folk who started watching in the first decade of this century where promotions and visits to elland road, bramall lane, st andrews and the like were on the menu season after season rather than colchester, accrington and barnet - is it only miserable old gits who have any genuine sense of perspective on things ?

It is a very fair question to ask.

For all the reasons you cite, unless we do have a sudden and freak influx of finance beyond our self-generated resources (as JR and the KM2 provided c2006-2011 in particular) we are a League One side - albeit a competitive one. I see Championship football as a laudable aim but not one that is likely to arrive with any great regularity.

We are underperforming this season. We have I think only rarely been in the top half all season and have spent most of the season in or just above the bottom third. Yet we have a top 8 budget and our home gates are top 10. This after being relegated in 15/16 when I presume we were roughly similarly resourced, is a bit disappointing frankly.

So to answer the question, I would expect us this season to have been consistently in the top half. Not play offs, but certainly consistently in top half.

I would add as well for broad context, that after our last promotion upwards to the third tier (season 04/05) we finished 10th with 66 points (we are currently 24 points behind that total, at 42 points).

[drfchound]

Herman, your post really is a good one mate.
I started watching the Rovers in 1962 and for most of the years since then, as you say, we have been third of fourth tier and even worse than that at times.
For most of my early years of watching it was almost always fourth tier.
As you can see I have had my share of the hard times so getting to the Championship under SoD was unbelievable really.
I will never forget that day at Wembley.

Those golden years do give you a thirst for more though and it has been well versed by the club that they have a five year plan to make us a sustainable Championship club.

They have done their best to get the supporters to buy into that so in my view it isn’t unreasonable for us to want it again.

The avoidable relegation two years was hard to take and obviously bouncing straight back was great even though it was tinged with the disappointment of blowing what should have been a title win.

I am on record as saying that I will be delighted if we manage to finish in mid table this year and haven’t said that the manager should be sacked but I am often surprised at some of the things he does.

I would like to think that we could build on that over the next year or two and maybe, just maybe, get back to the Championship.

I am not silly though and understand that should we ever manage that we would inevitably find it very hard to stay there.
As hard as it would be though there are the good days to enjoy, beating some of the bigger clubs, seeing my team at the bigger venues.

I am very much in the old gits section of fans that you mention but still have hopes and ambitions so don’t feel bad about wanting my team to do well.
I know we can’t win every week but reserve the right to discuss what went wrong when we don’t without some posters calling me and others, moaners.

There is nothing wrong with having hopes and ambitions, is there?

[SydneyRover]

Against a team that has won 7 on the trot and not lost in around 12 league games it was going to take quite an effort to break their confidence and beat them but for those that can't accept that I'm not sure you are ever going to be happy with the results whatever league we're in and whomever we play. Sometimes reality is what it is, we come up against a better team that is in form. When you look at the scores from Rotherham's games and the teams they played we did no better or worse, give our players and manager a break ffs.

[Herman Hessian]

I would add as well for broad context, that after our last promotion upwards to the third tier (season 04/05) we finished 10th with 66 points (we are currently 24 points behind that total, at 42 points).

that's spot on - great reference point, and what should perhaps have been the stated ambition from the off for the season; i think the nebulous "five year plan" may be the root cause of the dissatisfaction - a finite timescale for something that requires so many intangibles to fall in to place, just plays in to the hands of impatient sorts...

There is nothing wrong with having hopes and ambitions, is there?

not at all - if there are no hopes and ambitions, you might as well pack up watching the game altogether; the divisive criticism on here, though, does seem beyond the pale at times - it seems very much as if folk have expectations rather than dreams, that's what I find hard to stomach; if the club are fuelling such unrealistic aims, that's perhaps where the ire needs to be directed - not the saps put in place to oversee (manage !) progress, but i understand their imperative to appear forward thinking from a business point of view if nothing else. i think that a stated aim of year on year improvement would have been a far better approach than a fixed-term plan - particularly when you consider that any promotion achieved through incremental, organic growth is likely to be more sustainable than any overblown, shouting and screaming "going4it" approach....

hope this continues to generate plenty more thoughtful responses - restores the faith, a bit !

[drfchound]

For what it is worth, I agree with you that some of the posts on here are way OTT, on both sides of the DF fence.

[dickos1]

Bury, Bradford, mk dons, Oldham, oxford, Wimbledon, Blackpool,
We need to be getting at least ten points from these

With the exception of Blackburn, Wigan & probably Gillingham none of those fixtures should overly worry us.
We’ll get at least 12, maybe 16 from those games.

I wonder what the thoughts will be if we fail to get say, 10 or 12 points from those seven games.

 8 games.
We need 8 points from 12 games so if we manage to get 10 from 8 games I would think everyone would be happy. As we'd be safe with another 4 games to go

I could have sworn I saw someone list seven games earlier and suggest we needed ten points from them.

Maybe not.

You replied to andysly, even quoted what he said in your post. So what does that have to do with what I said?

[idler]

I think that timing is everything. Had we been 2-0 down and pulled one back and finished strongly pushing for an equaliser fans would have gone home reasonably happy.
Being 1-0 up as the game is closing knowing our record of conceding late goals and seeing your worst football nightmare become reality is bound to upset fans. Especially to a local rival. After a few days things calm down.

[RedJ]

Wouldn't be as bad if it didn't seem to happen time and time again.