Corbyn's Conference Speech

[Akinfenwa]

But.

But.

But.

Corbynistas always tell us that we should put what the membership wants above grubby stuff like trying to be electable.

It's bizarre that this is the one policy on which the party membership is ignored. And on which, the leadership has manoeuvred for 2 years to prevent a substantive vote at Conference.

So. Is the membership really in charge of the party? Or is it Corbyn's version of The Will of the People? Trotted out when it is convenient.

I couldn't give two hoots what 'Corbynistas' supposedly say. It's not relevant to my own point that I don't think Corbyn and Labour should oppose Brexit.

I'll tell you what I find equally bizarre. It's those who have spent the previous three years moaning how the decisions taken by the membership are making the party unelectable, yet now conveniently call for the members to have a say on this one issue in particular. Even if - you guessed it - it makes the party unelectable. It's just two cheeks of the same arse.

[Akinfenwa]

I got the numbers wrong by the way.

86% of the members say they would back a second referendum.

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/politics/2018/sep/22/corbyn-under-pressure-from-labour-members-over-brexit

You can twist and turn all you want, trying to second guess what they mean by that. The fact is, the members want a second referendum. So why would they Corbyn give them one?

The only one twisting here is you I'm afraid.

You initially claimed that 80-odd percent of party members want the party to oppose Brexit, which is simply incorrect. You then changed your argument from 'opposing Brexit' to 'wanting a second referendum' - the poll in question is actually worded as 'a public vote on the Brexit outcome' which is slightly different still, but never-mind.

Whichever way you look at it, wanting your party to oppose Brexit is not the same as indicating personal support for 'a public vote on the Brexit outcome'. Not even close.

Anyhow, all of this does highlight an interesting but worrying dissonance between people within the Labour party and those it seeks to represent. And that's not a Corbyn thing, it's been growing a problem with the left in general for years.

[DonnyOsmond]

It's stunts like that palastinian flag thing  that makes people's minds up whether to vote for them or not.
They are unelectable

As my dear old sainted Mum used to say "A Leopard cannot change its spots"

Corbyn has had 30/40 years to sort himself out and he still thinks he can spout his anti Semitic beliefs, and wholesale support for Proscribed organisations in his current role?

What is wrong about calling out Isreal on their persecution of the Palestinian people and their illegal occupation of Palestinian lands?

There is nothing wrong with it, I specifically refereed to his open support for proscribed organisations, The IRA , Hezbullah et al ,it's something I wouldn't want to see in a leader of out great country.

He didn't support the IRA, he was in conversation with them to get their issues resolved and stop the violence. That's usually how wars stop...

[Sprotyrover]

That's how Wars stop!!!. If Corbyn becomes PM there is every possibility of the UK being dragged into a war that is totally not in our interest,his support of Hezzbullah and other extremist organisations in the Middle East will lead to the UK losing any credibility we had with the Us and Europe,
We already have a crackpot in charge over the Pond, what is going to happen when those 2 go head to head?
The stayers keep ranting and Raving about the UK losing a Trillion £ in a decade .I can see us losing a Trillion £ in three years.
He will fall out with our Defence chiefs, he will fall out with our defence industry, he will fall out with the Criminal Justice system, he will fall out with the Police.( An enquiry into Orgreave will no doubt go down well)
There will be left wing/right wing, pro terrorist marches on a weekly basis and what is left of the Police force will wipe their hands of it all.
(By the way that has already started under this Tory regime) the increase in knife attacks and knife carrying coincides with a 24% fall in complaints against SYP that is due to Police officers being 'Risk averse' and the fact that most Police Foces have lost 30 % of the staff they had in 2010.

[BillyStubbsTears]

Akinfenwa

Yes, you're right. I conflated wishing for a second referendum with your comment about opposing Brexit. That was a mistake.

Let's put it this way then. There is very strong circumstantial evidence that a large majority of members would wish the party to actively oppose Brexit. We don't actually know that, because the leadership has manoeuvred to make sure it doesn't come up at Conference.

Corbyn, Bennite that he is, has spent his entire career preaching that the members' wishes should direct Labour policy. That's a principled stance. It's one I disagree with but it's a principled stance.

The point is that, on this issue, Corbyn has consistently manoeuvred to STOP the members having a say on policy.

You say you think that's right, for electoral reasons.

Grand. So the idea that the members' wishes are sovereign is not out of the window and can be ignored the next time someone brings it up. If they DO try to argue from that stance, they are being knowingly hypocritical.

Back to politics as normal.

[Sprotyrover]

Well looks like Mrs May just about summed the opposition up today...unelectable.

Labour voters with more than 2 Ameoba in between their ears will have got the message, he gets in and within 6 to 12 months all of the sensible Labour MP's will have been marginalised and then bullied out of office by THE 'PARTY' MEMBERS. To be replaced but Goons from the Far
left and Momentum.

[Filo]

Well looks like Mrs May just about summed the opposition up today...unelectable.

Labour voters with more than 2 Ameoba in between their ears will have got the message, he gets in and within 6 to 12 months all of the sensible Labour MP's will have been marginalised and then bullied out of office by THE 'PARTY' MEMBERS. To be replaced but Goons from the Far
left and Momentum.

Mrs May had nothing to say about the Country's current situation, she just slagged Corbyn off all the time, a sure sign she's running scared, and what a t**t she looked coming on stage, was she trying to stamp on a spider or something?

[Sprotyrover]

Well looks like Mrs May just about summed the opposition up today...unelectable.

Labour voters with more than 2 Ameoba in between their ears will have got the message, he gets in and within 6 to 12 months all of the sensible Labour MP's will have been marginalised and then bullied out of office by THE 'PARTY' MEMBERS. To be replaced but Goons from the Far
left and Momentum.

Mrs May had nothing to say about the Country's current situation, she just slagged Corbyn off all the time, a sure sign she's running scared, and what a t**t she looked coming on stage, was she trying to stamp on a spider or something?

Did she really spend 55 minutes attacking Corbyn?

[BillyStubbsTears]

So she now says Austerity has ended. Kind of shows it was always about the politics and never about the economics.

The economic argument for EVER having had Austerity was destroyed years ago. It has been the worst and most destructive economic policy of the past 80 years and we have endured a lost decade of economic underperformance and stagnating wages as a result. And the national debt has taken twice as long as planned to bring under control, precisely because of this underperformance. All exactly as the sensible economists were predicting 9 years  ago. It's been an absolute calamity.

And now Labour are setting the economic agenda, suddenly May decides Austerity is done. Because it was never about the economics. It was about politics. The Tories APPEARING to be sensible and prudent, and winning the political argument. The moment it starts to be unpopular, they drop it.

Charlatans, cheats and spivs, the f**king lot of them. And we're all far poorer as a result.

[BillyStubbsTears]

This is what Austerity has done for us by the way.

https://d3fy651gv2fhd3.cloudfront.net/charts/united-kingdom-gdp-per-capita@3x.png?s=gbrnygdppcapkd&v=201807061645x&d1=19180101&d2=20181231

The worst recovery from a recession for over 200 years. We're now about $10k PER YEAR, PER HEAD poorer now than we would have been if we'd recovered from the last recession and got back onto our post-War trend of economic growth. And we knew EXACTLY how to do that. But we chose to go for the Voodoo Economics of Austerity instead. For political reasons.

And these t**ts claim that as a success.

[Filo]

Great darts walk on though 😂😂😂😂

[tommy toes]

Sproty
How can you continue to support what is the worst government in my lifetime.
They have complety messed up everything for the past 8 years. That idiot Osborne and his ridiculous fiscal policies ably supported by Call me Dave (who by the way Tory supporting Jeremy Paxman rates as the worst ever PM)
Cameron only called the referendum to attempt to heal rifts in the party and both of them jumped ship when the result went against them. May has fudged and stumbled through the negotiations with the same aim, with the good of the country a secondary issue.
They are a complete and utter disgrace and should be out ASAP.
I don't care who replaces them. The Monster raving loonies would probably have done a better job.

[BillyStubbsTears]

TT

There's no question that the last 8 years have seen the most bone-headedly idiotic economic policy since the 1920s.

We've known since then that the single most stupid economic thing a Govt can do is to rein in spending when private business confidence is low. But that's precisely what they did. And we will all be A LOT poorer now for the rest of our lives as a result. It is a national tragedy of historic proportions.

 And somehow, they are able to claim that they have been a resounding success.

[Filo]

TT

There's no question that the last 8 years have seen the most bone-headedly idiotic economic policy since the 1920s.

We've known since then that the single most stupid economic thing a Govt can do is to rein in spending when private business confidence is low. But that's precisely what they did. And we will all be A LOT poorer now for the rest of our lives as a result. It is a national tragedy of historic proportions.

 And somehow, they are able to claim that they have been a resounding success.

Its like the old one they had on repeat that Labour caused the global financial crisis, say it often enough and people start believing ot

[Sprotyrover]

Some people have very short memories. The last Labour government was overly excessive at spending the voters hard earned Money.
Gordon Brown's plllaging tax raids on the once excellent Private retirement funds and to cap it all he showed his complete financial buffoonery with the sale of the nations gold reserves.
I haven't got any stocks and shares but I can't see how stealing 10% of every companies shares will encourage free enterprise.
As for the current Labour Party the 'Idiots are running the Asylum.

[BillyStubbsTears]

To be fair to Osborne, he was a genius politician. A f**king catastrophe as a Chancellor, but in coining the term Deficit Denier he won the Tories ten years in power.

His idea of Austerity was founded on two influential research papers by American right-wing economists. Both papers have been shredded by subsequent research.

One said that by cutting Govt spending, you could get economic growth. There was no sensible theory behind that and subsequent research has out that idea in the dustbin.

The other said that if Govt debt got above 90% of GDP, economic growth collapsed. Osborne quoted that as a reason for cutting Govt spending when they came to power in 2010. But it turned out (and I shit you not) that the American profs who had done that research had entered an incorrect formula in their Excel spreadsheet. When it was corrected, there was no link between debt and growth.

In the meantime, we cut investment  in housing, schools, hospitals, rail projects, broadband infrastructure. We saw productivity flatline for the first time since the War. Wages stagnate. High quality jobs evaporate. Just like the economists who knew their shit predicted.

Osbourne claimed he would eliminate the deficit by 2015. The current predictions are that it will not be eliminated before 2025. Because we're not earning enough to do so. Because that f**king spiv cut investment exactly when it was needed, and we're all poorer as a result.

This bunch of ignorant con men don't even understand the Capitalism they claim to represent. It'll be a blessing for us all when they are chucked in the dustbin of history. And the irony is that a Marxist Chancellor will replace them, who actually DOES understand how the Capitalist economy works.

[BillyStubbsTears]

Sproty.

You haven't got a clue. Not a clue. You're spouting nonsense about Labour spending, and the gold reserves issue is dwarfed a hundred times over by what we have lost through Austerity. Finally, the issue with pensions is that the Stock Market has stagnated for nearly 20 years. 

[Mr1Croft]

For someone that is so unelectable, the Tories spent over half of their conference attacking Corbyn.

On the economy, I think it is time for a real debate about what constitutes a 'strong' economy. We keep hearing that the country has the 6th largest economy and now (thanks to 'austerity') less than 2% budget deficit.

But even on a basic level, what's the point in having such a strong economy where food bank usage is through the roof, record levels of rough sleepers and record levels of children living in poverty?

[Glyn_Wigley]

Some people have very short memories. The last Labour government was overly excessive at spending the voters hard earned Money.
Gordon Brown's plllaging tax raids on the once excellent Private retirement funds and to cap it all he showed his complete financial buffoonery with the sale of the nations gold reserves.
I haven't got any stocks and shares but I can't see how stealing 10% of every companies shares will encourage free enterprise.
As for the current Labour Party the 'Idiots are running the Asylum.

Ah yes, the complete financial buffoonery that reduced the National Debt by 10% of GDP from 40% to 30% until the banks went tits up.

[Sprotyrover]

Which party had been in power for a decade when the Banks went tits up Glyn? Maybe they were complicit! Did you watch the HSBC documentary the other night?

[tommy toes]

Ah, so Gordon Brown was responsible for the sub prime mortgage scandal in the US which set the dominoes falling.
Clever bloke old Gordon.

[Glyn_Wigley]

Which party had been in power for a decade when the Banks went tits up Glyn? Maybe they were complicit! Did you watch the HSBC documentary the other night?

'Maybe' it all happened due to events in America, far away from where even UK government complicity can stretch. You know, like history says it did.

[Boomstick]

Ah, so Gordon Brown was responsible for the sub prime mortgage scandal in the US which set the dominoes falling.
Clever bloke old Gordon.

He reaped all the praise and rewards leading up to 2008, whilst claiming an end to boom and bust.
When the crash happened, it was on his watch, and he was quick as a flash saying it was a global crisis, and deflecting any responsibility.
If you claim praise in the good years, you can't shirk responsibility when it goes wrong.

[RedJ]

Ah, so Gordon Brown was responsible for the sub prime mortgage scandal in the US which set the dominoes falling.
Clever bloke old Gordon.

He reaped all the praise and rewards leading up to 2008, whilst claiming an end to boom and bust.
When the crash happened, it was on his watch, and he was quick as a flash saying it was a global crisis, and deflecting any responsibility.
If you claim praise in the good years, you can't shirk responsibility when it goes wrong.

It WAS a global crisis though...

[tommy toes]

That rabid Tory Isobel Oakshott came up with that old chestnut on QT last night inferring the crash was Labour's fault, which got a big round of applause.
Backs up Filo's point that if you lie about summat often enough it becomes a fact.

[Donnywolf]

That rabid Tory Isobel Oakshott came up with that old chestnut on QT last night inferring the crash was Labour's fault, which got a big round of applause.
Backs up Filo's point that if you lie about summat often enough it becomes a fact.

.... AND if you say the words "strong and stable Government" about a billion times it still does not work and you look a d******d (if that is possible for a Woman) when you lose your Majority - but no matter you can still go on to make mugs of the rest of the people propped up by 10 people in NI with just 293000 votes having elected them

I hate Politics more and more by the day

[Filo]

Ah, so Gordon Brown was responsible for the sub prime mortgage scandal in the US which set the dominoes falling.
Clever bloke old Gordon.

He reaped all the praise and rewards leading up to 2008, whilst claiming an end to boom and bust.
When the crash happened, it was on his watch, and he was quick as a flash saying it was a global crisis, and deflecting any responsibility.
If you claim praise in the good years, you can't shirk responsibility when it goes wrong.

Gordon Browns plan to tackle the GLOBAL CRISIS was acclaimed world wide as the sensible way to tackle it, it was used as a blueprint for all the other major econmy’s around the world

[BillyStubbsTears]

Boomstick

If you live near a river that has flooded many times and you spend time and effort protecting your house from flooding, then it gets hit by a meteorite, were you wrong to be proud of the work you had done on the flood protection?

The Boom and Bust that Brown referred to was the disastrous way in which our economy had been run since the War. Lower interest rates too far because it's politically attractive.
Encourage over-exuberant business activity as a result.
See that translate to rising inflation.
Raise interest rates drastically to dampen business activity and reduce inflation.
See unemployment rise.
Reduce interest rates to encourage business to grow again.

THAT was the boom and bust cycle that we'd had since the War. That was why we typically had a mad boom followed by a sharp slowdown on about a 5-8 year cycle.

We didn't have that under the Chancellorships of Ken Clarke and Gordon Brown. While the rest of the word was still seeing boom and bust, we had 16 years of boring stability.

The crash in 2008 was of a totally different form. Nothing to do with runaway business exuberance. Everything to do with banks engaging in (what we now see with hindsight as) utterly insane lending policies.

Brown didn't see that coming. Nor did anyone else.

[albie]

I have to disagree with your final comment there, BST.

Quite a few people saw it coming, and positioned themselves to benefit from the crash.
Not only in the City, but in government too some saw the writing on the wall, but were too in awe of their own propaganda to act early enough to mitigate.

Basically, to do so would fly in the face of the policy prescription which allowed the situation to develop. Loss of face counts highly with the selective memory set.

If you can bank on a bail out under the "too big to fail" clause, then the opportunity to seize private profit, before socialising the consequences, seems like good business to a particular sociopathic mindset.

The worst is that it will all happen again. The same game is still in play.

[BillyStubbsTears]

I beg to differ Albie. Plenty of people CLAIM that they saw it coming. But at the time, no one even understood how the shadow banking system worked, how it was enabling huge existential risks to be taken, and what the consequences would be of a loss in confidence in the quality of its assets.

Once the crash did happen, we really were staring a major catastrophe in the face. There are many people today, in the comfortable position of knowing they never had to make the decision, who claim that we should have let banks fail. Had we dine that, we'd have been living in caves and eating rats in 2009.