Corbyn's Conference Speech

[DonnyOsmond]

  The democratic process which we live by was laid out at the time..The country voted,the article was triggered and that should be that..Unless you believe in the SNP policy of keep asking for a referendum until you get the result you personally want..!!

Would another vote not be democracy? Especially now we're more educated on what leaving means.

[Sprotyrover]

  The democratic process which we live by was laid out at the time..The country voted,the article was triggered and that should be that..Unless you believe in the SNP policy of keep asking for a referendum until you get the result you personally want..!!

Would another vote not be democracy? Especially now we're more educated on what leaving means.


No you had your chance we voted to leave and leaving we will be .

[ZiggerZagger]

I thought democracy was when you voted on something and then carried out what was voted on by the winning majority. Or has that now changed?

[Pancho Regan]

He spent ages getting a massive youth movement in the last election who for the majority are against Brexit, it'd be daft to alienate them.

Fair point. The youth vote is an interesting point too regarding a 2nd referendum vote, as 1.5m more people have turned 18 since the last vote, and 1.3m have died!
That fact alone would point to a remain victory, and maybe also the correct result - should the votes of the dead matter more than those who are alive and have to live with any consequences?

That's interesting. Do we have any information as to how those who've died voted?
Is that what's meant by an exit poll....?

 

[BillyStubbsTears]

I thought democracy was when you voted on something and then carried out what was voted on by the winning majority. Or has that now changed?

I know. It would be an insult to democracy to have another vote.

[Glyn_Wigley]

I thought democracy was when you voted on something and then carried out what was voted on by the winning majority. Or has that now changed?

I know. It would be an insult to democracy to have another vote.

Funny how it's those who call the EU a dictatorship that insist on telling us what we can't do, eh?

[Sprotyrover]

Why not make it best of five?

[Glyn_Wigley]

The more the better. The lies will lose their potency each time.

[Boomstick]

So at what point do you stop calling for another referendum? When you get the result you want?
It's not democratic, and is never going to happen.

[RedJ]

I'll repeat. Farage himself basically said if he lost he'd keep agitating for a new vote.

[BillyStubbsTears]

I'd be delighted to just have one more. If we made sure that anyone connected with syphoning money from Putin into companies that illegally targeted the social media accounts of 7m people with little interest in politics and poured billions of adverts and videos packed with lies into their feeds was unable to get involved this time.

Democracy? Anyone who ignores what happened during the campaign, then lectures other people about democracy is a hypocrite.

[wing commander]

  I wonder how many of these people who want to remain would be so keen to have a re-run if the result would have gone the other way...Whatevever the grounds...

[RedJ]

Farage was keen on having a re-run if he lost.

[BillyStubbsTears]

WingCo

But it's not about "Whatever the grounds."

It's about whether there are specific grounds.

And there are. Two.

1) We were told categorically by the Leave side that we'd get a wonderful deal with the EU. Now we are staring at a No Deal exit. That was never on the agenda in 2016 and there is a huge majority of the country against that. If we interpret the vote in 2016 as grounds for a No Deal Brexit, THAT absolutely is a perversion of democracy.

2) There is overwhelming evidence of  interference in the campaign by Russian funded companies, illegally targeting social media feeds to direct a tsunami of lies at people they identified as gullible to that approach. Once again, that is an absolute perversion of the democratic process. This time by a hostile foreign power that has a huge interest in seeing Britain weakened. It's amazing that people who claim to be patriots don't seem to have any concerns about that.

[tommy toes]

As regards point 1 of the above post BST, I don't think people who voted Leave were interested in or aware of any deal. They just wanted to leave.

[Donnywolf]

I thought democracy was when you voted on something and then carried out what was voted on by the winning majority. Or has that now changed?

Farage was keen on having a re-run if he lost.

EXACTLY that. Those that are in Parliament (a Parliamentary Democracy) took is into the EEC / EU a long long time ago. Since then the "anti" EU MPs and Farage etc have NEVER ceased in their efforts to get us out "somehow"

Now they and others got a vote (I say too close and devisive - they say overwhelming Majority) they are saying "Its Democracy - get over it" and I as an ordinary man in the street are expected to take that lying down. Well NO. I hope that minds superior to mine (thats many people) will force a second Vote on the deal and we Vote to stay IN

That too would be Democratic - especially if the Vote was held on "the facts" rather than just being a Yes / No on an unknown outcome.

I have said it before (on Democracy so sorry for the repeat) - those who think it undemocratic take a look at the Scottish Independence Vote. Twice at least the people have not wanted to break up the Union with the UK the last one being called a once in a Generation Vote. Only 10 "metaphorical minutes" ago - and yet they are already doing the groundwork for the next Referendum. See Nicola Sturgeon the other day ? How many times did she mention " independence" " being Independant" or alluding to being Independant

Is THAT democratic too - cos all they are doing is what the anti EU boys did till they got the right result - and if it is right why are we the Remainers wrong to put the opposite view now ? 

[Donnywolf]

  I wonder how many of these people who want to remain would be so keen to have a re-run if the result would have gone the other way...Whatevever the grounds...

The big mistake Cameron made (well the second one after calling the Referndum itself) was not to try to get a Referendum that set a precept of - say - a 60% Majority must vote "Leave" for the status quo to be altered. In that way the Leavers could have continued their challenge for years to come till they convinced whatever majority was decided upon

Having ia vote that produced a 51 49 majority was and is just too divisive

[wilts rover]

As regards point 2) above I hope people saw this article yesterday. The Met Police are not investigating the alleged criminality by the Leave campaigns because of 'political sensitivities'.

https://www.opendemocracy.net/uk/brexitinc/james-cusick-adam-ramsay/met-police-stall-brexit-campaign-investigations-claiming-polit

[BillyStubbsTears]

As regards point 1 of the above post BST, I don't think people who voted Leave were interested in or aware of any deal. They just wanted to leave.

Not correct TT. In poll after poll there are fewer than 30% of people say they want a No Deal Brexit.

So, think about it. If we DO leave with No Deal, then the entire country will have to deal with something that little more than a quarter of us support.

I struggle to see how that is a triumph for democracy.

[tommy toes]

They are saying that NOW BST I agree.
I'm going back to the vote in 2016 which was Leave or Stay.
I don't think many of the leave voters then were concerned or even aware of or bothered about the type of leave deal they were voting for.
They were told immigration would stop and we'd have all our own money to spend as we liked. Millions per week for the NHS etc.
I'll guarantee the majority hadn't even heard of the customs union.
F**k me even the Government hadn't considered the NI border issue.

[Bentley Bullet]

Point of order. I don't know of anyone who wanted immigration to stop and don't remember it being on the agenda.

[RedJ]

I do. I work with several people who voted to leave based on immigration and nothing else.

[Bentley Bullet]

RedJ, No doubt you do, but voting to leave based on immigration is not exactly wanting immigration to stop.

[tommy toes]

RedJ, No doubt you do, but voting to leave based on immigration is not exactly wanting immigration to stop.

Fair enough BB. To be greatly reduced then.

[Bentley Bullet]

RedJ, No doubt you do, but voting to leave based on immigration is not exactly wanting immigration to stop.

Fair enough BB. To be greatly reduced then.

But of course Tommy. Don't you agree?

[wilts rover]

Thanks BB, that gives me the perfect opportunity to show what people are saying above is true. That he public's views on Brexit have changed now we know more about it.

If Tommy had voted to Leave to control immigration from the EU then he was not alone as this was seen as the main priority by the public when negotiations began in 2017

https://yougov.co.uk/news/2017/08/15/eurotrack-britons-top-brexit-priority-immigration-/

However as negotiations have gone on and people been more informed about the cost of Brexit, the economy, and security co-operation, have now become far more important than controlling immigration.

https://yougov.co.uk/news/2018/08/14/few-brits-see-protecting-rights-uk-citizens-living/

[Bentley Bullet]

Perhaps no one imagined such a demanding divorce settlement! Is that a reason to stay with a partner you're not happy with?

[tommy toes]

BB
What I'm saying is that most people who voted Leave didn't even think there would be a divorce settlement.
They thought 'Right I'll vote leave. We'll leave and that'll be the end of it. Then we can stop all these foreigners taking our jobs and we'll have all these billions to spend on what we want.
The number of times I've heard from people over the last 2 years 'I'm fed up with this, why can't we just leave?'

[tommy toes]

RedJ, No doubt you do, but voting to leave based on immigration is not exactly wanting immigration to stop.

Fair enough BB. To be greatly reduced then.

But of course Tommy. Don't you agree?

I did agree thanks no need for the sarcasm

[BillyStubbsTears]

Perhaps no one imagined such a demanding divorce settlement! Is that a reason to stay with a partner you're not happy with?

That's really witty BB.

Nothing to do with what we are discussing, but really witty.