Mueller report

[scawsby steve]

Well well, it seems that your prediction that the Mueller report would bring down Trump was totally wrong. You really are a bad tipster Billy; you called the referendum wrong; I'd gamble that you called the 2015 General Election wrong, and I'm pretty certain that you called the 2016 US Election wrong.

Do us all a favour Billy, and never tip the Rovers to win.

[BillyStubbsTears]

We'll see SS. We'll see.

Look past the headlines to the detail that will be coming out over the next few weeks. For a start, Mueller has NOT "totally exonerated" Trump on Obstruction of justice. He specifically says that his report does NOT exonerate Trump. The decision not to prosecute has been made by the Attorney General, who Trump selected personally a few weeks ago.

The AG has now got to justify that decision to Congress.

[scawsby steve]

We'll see SS. We'll see.

Look past the headlines to the detail that will be coming out over the next few weeks. For a start, Mueller has NOT "totally exonerated" Trump on Obstruction of justice. He specifically says that his report does NOT exonerate Trump. The decision not to prosecute has been made by the Attorney General, who Trump selected personally a few weeks ago.

The AG has now got to justify that decision to Congress.

Let it go Billy, you're sounding f*cking desperate.

[BillyStubbsTears]

You're right about me calling 2015 and the Referendum wrong by the way. As for Trump, I was predicting that that narcissistic criminal (and he is...and he will be shown to be) had a good shot at the White House two years before the election.

[BillyStubbsTears]

You're obviously getting a lot of pleasure from it SS. I'll keep giving you summat to feed on.

[scawsby steve]

You're obviously getting a lot of pleasure from it SS. I'll keep giving you summat to feed on.

Zzzzzzzzzzz

[BillyStubbsTears]

Odd that you'd start a thread then immediately want to close it down.

Your call.

[BillyStubbsTears]

By the way SS. Here's a prediction that I fervently hope I'm wrong on.

https://www.drfc-vsc.co.uk/index.php?topic=268248.msg822397#msg822397

I hope I'm wrong, because the yield curve just inverted in the USA and the last three times that has happened, there's been a big global recession within 12 correction, 18 months.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bloomberg.com/amp/opinion/articles/2019-03-22/inverted-yield-curve-reminds-investors-that-cycles-end

[Dutch Uncle]

We need to look at this carefully. All we have is 4 page summary of the Mueller report written by a Trump appointed lackey Attorney General without consulting Mueller (which he was bound to do). The real report may well be very bad for Trump, and it will be a real fight for the Democrat controlled Hpuse to receive it in its entireity.

However more relevant is that probably Mueller has realised that going through a supposedly independent but de facto Trump influenced Department of Justice is not going to get very far. He has farmed out much of his work and prosecuting to other agencies and states (about 19 other investigations ongoing). There are already 17 sealed indictments lodged in various places. The danger for American democracy in the short run (2020 elections) is that Trump will make so much noise and drown out everything else.

Read Seth Abramson if you have time - it is excellent and lays things out carefully:

https://twitter.com/SethAbramson?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Eauthor

[BillyStubbsTears]

Agreed 100% Dutch.

I'll admit, I've naively thought that Mueller was some sort of silver bullet. It's never like that. Trump's team has a temporary media win, courtesy of an AG who is a recent Trump appointee, and who pitched for the job by writing a rambling 19 page memo last year, in which he made a case that a President cannot be inducted for Obstruction of Justice...

Hardly independent...

But the utterly useless media that we have these days is incapable of putting that level of detail across. So, SS here, understandably, thinks that's it.

[BillyStubbsTears]

Here's how far through the looking glass we are.

The simplest, best laid out media piece on why yesterday did NOT "totally exonerate" Trump as the idle mainstream media is reporting comes from...

...Breitbart!

https://www.breitbart.com/news/ap-fact-check-mueller-probe-doesnt-totally-exonerate-trump/

I need a lie down. The world has tipped upside down.

[Not Now Kato]

A good write-up in the Guardian
 
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/mar/24/mueller-report-trump-collusion-corruption-congress-democrats
 

Much like last year’s elections, the Mueller report has done Democrats a huge favor. Winning both the Senate and House would have set up a titanic clash between Congress and the White House, the kind of clash White Houses have often won in time for re-election.

In the same way, a clear and damning Mueller report would have set up a titanic clash over impeachment: a process that would fail in this Republican-controlled Senate, no matter the evidence presented.

There will be many Democrats disappointed Mueller did not scream “Guilty!” and that impeachment remains on hold. But party leadership, and election veterans, know short-term disappointment offers a long-running advantage.

It means a year of more congressional revelations and a year of more indictments. It means the 2020 election can be forward-looking about Trump’s fitness for office, rather than backward-looking about the last election.

It means more consideration of corruption and less talk of collusion.

Voters, as well as lawyers, may struggle to define collusion and to prove conspiracies beyond reasonable doubt. Even when a presidential candidate goes on national TV to ask the Russians to hack his opponent’s emails.


But what voters readily understand is the stench of corruption around a man who promised to drain the swamp. Populism tends to lose its popularity when the populists are more concerned with personal profit than public service.

With a large field of talented candidates running to drive Trump from office, Democrats can look forward to a long and fine discussion of what standards of conduct and character we expect from a president.

Within minutes of Barr’s summary of the Mueller report being released, Trump told reporters the report was “complete and total exoneration”. That’s because, in this White House, the words “complete and total” have come to mean “partial and unfinished”.

With so many legal threads hanging half-pulled from the rags that still cover Donald Trump, the undressing of this president has only reached the end of the first tease.

[silent majority]

Let's not forget these are still ongoing;

(UPDATE) The minimum number of *active* investigations targeting Trump, many involving pre- and post-election multinational collusion: ✅SDNY ✅EDNY ✅EDVA ✅USDC-DC ✅NYCDA ✅NYAG ✅NJAG ✅MDAG ✅DCAG ✅SCO* ✅FBI ✅CIA ✅HPSCI ✅SSCI ✅HJC ✅HOC ✅HFSC ✅HWMC *Ongoing cases.

[scawsby steve]

Isn't it funny how we all seem to glean information from different sources. On most of the news reports and press previews I watched last night, the general consensus seemed to be that if the Democrats turn this into a witch-hunt, they could be making the same mistake that the Republicans made when they went after Bill Clinton, and ended up alienating voters.

In fact, I was surprised to hear journalists that have been attacking Trump for 2 years, now suggesting that he'll walk it in 2020.

[silent majority]

Isn't it funny how we all seem to glean information from different sources. On most of the news reports and press previews I watched last night, the general consensus seemed to be that if the Democrats turn this into a witch-hunt, they could be making the same mistake that the Republicans made when they went after Bill Clinton, and ended up alienating voters.

In fact, I was surprised to hear journalists that have been attacking Trump for 2 years, now suggesting that he'll walk it in 2020.

I just keep following Seth Abramson, he seems to be pretty much spot on. I certainly wouldn't believe anything that the general media in the US have come out with.

[The Red Baron]

Maybe the interim report is just "Mueller Light." 

[scawsby steve]

Maybe the interim report is just "Mueller Light." 

Is Condoleeza Rice still in office?

[ravenrover]

Isn't it funny how we all seem to glean information from different sources. On most of the news reports and press previews I watched last night, the general consensus seemed to be that if the Democrats turn this into a witch-hunt, they could be making the same mistake that the Republicans made when they went after Bill Clinton, and ended up alienating voters.

In fact, I was surprised to hear journalists that have been attacking Trump for 2 years, now suggesting that he'll walk it in 2020.

Talking to an ex pat living in Florida, over here on a visit, his opinion is that Trump will indeed walk it in 2020. People forget how huge USA is, he said, forget the East and West Coast his main support is the rest of USA and he still very popular in these "Central" States

[BillyStubbsTears]

Raven

He IS popular in places. But his overall popularity is spectacularly low by historical comparisons.

Look at the table halfway down this page.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/fivethirtyeight.com/features/the-year-in-trumps-approval-rating/amp/

Granted, it's a year old, but it's astonishing just how unpopular he was then. And he's not improved since.

https://news.gallup.com/poll/203207/trump-job-approval-weekly.aspx?g_source=link_newsv9&g_campaign=item_201617&g_medium=copy

Not saying he can't turn it round. But remember, he's THIS unpopular even while the US economy is doing reasonably well. If there IS a recession on the way, he'll be annihilated in 2020.

[Yargo]

Ah BobG was always correct in his "analysis" too,  he writes about that alleged video along with the boneheads
https://www.drfc-vsc.co.uk/index.php?topic=260741.msg674483#msg674483
What next WMD in Iraq?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3vi04iC2fB8

[scawsby steve]

Apparently the bent lawyer of that dirty f*cking slapper Stormy Daniels, has been arrested for fraud, involving millions of dollars.

Is it Trump's birthday round about now? because he just keeps getting gifts.

[Sandy Lane]

To the OP, that is very unfair.  The Republicans have changed the goalposts, lied to cover up this president and spun Trumps actions over and over every day on Fox News.  The press was initially very slow to criticise Trump related to his Russian contacts, Trump family businesses, and nepotism. 

Mueller was the person we Americans hung our hopes on  — and also Seth Abramson has done us a true public service linking up all Trump’s crimes - and as the crimes grew and spread out in many directions, the press finally, finally caught on and started to cover them.  Seth was first but by then everyone watched Trump continually collude in plain sight, and came to the same conclusion.  Mueller being a true blue *Republican* patriot was charged with finding the evidence. While we accept the Mueller report, we cannot accept that his actual report has been ‘interpreted’ by Barr, Trump’s personally appointed Attorney General who is head of the DOJ, which oversees the FBI.   Barr got the job by sending a letter to Trump which aligned with Trump’s feeling that the investigation was a ‘witch hunt’. 

What was not expected was that the definition of ‘collude’ at some point changed to mean Trump ‘signed an agreement’ with Russians to help him win.  Which is why Trump kept saying No Collusion, because he knew he didn’t do that -  so no one was expecting that outcome. Yet it was happening.  The charge of obstruction included Trump not calling out the Russians as their hacking was happening during the elections, and I assume would also have  included the polling data info given to Trump/Putin associates.  All the while his family met with Russians at TT and at other times with other foreign powers (where he has business interests), to ease sanctions on them for a quiet quid pro quo of secret intel.  As an example Jarod the son in law whose family was propped up by Saudi Prince MDS’ money was given a high level security clearance which allowed Jared to provide intel on his (MDS’)enemies which resulted in the death and dismemberment of Washington Post journalist Khosoggi, who was critical of the Saudi regime. This is how they work.  Everything for money.  Life and truth are cheap.

So how could anyone in good conscience believe that Mueller would not find this evidence?  We Democrats mostly believed he would.  What we thought was that many more of Trump’s family and circle would be interviewed by SC and they weren’t.  Also apparently three weeks ago Mueller went to his boss Barr to say he couldn’t make a determination on obstruction either way.  So why not give him more time or increase the scope of the investigation?  This didn’t happen.  IMO this stinks to high heaven.

Believe me there is a real sense of despair here in the US.  Yes he didn’t ‘collude’,but they (the Republicans and Barr) are blocking access to Congress(!) of the entire unredacted  Mueller report, and have done their own cursory examination of the report and Barr (appointed by Trump) declared he has broken no laws and there is no need for the country to see the entire report.  Are you kidding me?  This is very very serious and a slippery slope for the 2020 election and more.  Now Putin  wants to establish closer ties to the US, they have cosied up to Netanyahu (the criminal) and will probably be starting a war with Iraq over this.  These are dangerous times, and I don’t see them ending anytime soon.

I want to put my faith in Congress but it’s a huge job they have in front of them, and will be stymied along the way.  The on going investigations may be negated by Trump’s  power of pardon so in essence he most likely gets away with everything.  In the US we have a checks and balances system on the three branches of government for a reason, but the Republican arm of the legislative branch is in it up to their necks in support for this corruption.  (As an aside, I’m not sure if anyone follows Teri Kanefield on Twitter, but she is excellent at explaining what’s happening now and the background on it.)

The problem now is Trump wants revenge on the FBI and feels they started this whole thing. Remember Trump,himself, publicly told Russia to hack Hillary’s emails.  He and his family has lied (if he is innocent why lie about meetings with Russians on Trump Tower, etc).  Also, he is now conveniently forgetting that James Comey, the former (Republican) head of the FBI- just days before the 2016 election — decided to open Another investigation into Hillary’s emails, which I believe really did turn the tide and got Trump the boost he needed to win.

I know you folks are dealing with the on-going Brexit problem, but since this intersects on your referendum related to Putin hacking and the general misinformation which was disseminated, I can acutely feel your pain. God help us.  And to the OP, bite your tongue sir.  I know Billy can speak for himself, but I wanted to let you know that most, if not all, Democrats thought that Mueller was the answer to our prayers.  If we ever do get to see the report, maybe things can change, but I am quickly losing hope.

P.S.  By the way SS, stormy Daniels is only the tip of the iceberg, but with checks written to her by Trump to silence her, may be the election fraud evidence needed to finally charge him, which hopefully will be followed up by the SDNY.

[scawsby steve]

To the OP, that is very unfair.  The Republicans have changed the goalposts, lied to cover up this president and spun Trumps actions over and over every day on Fox News.  The press was initially very slow to criticise Trump related to his Russian contacts, Trump family businesses, and nepotism. 

Mueller was the person we Americans hung our hopes on  — and also Seth Abramson has done us a true public service linking up all Trump’s crimes - and as the crimes grew and spread out in many directions, the press finally, finally caught on and started to cover them.  Seth was first but by then everyone watched Trump continually collude in plain sight, and came to the same conclusion.  Mueller being a true blue *Republican* patriot was charged with finding the evidence. While we accept the Mueller report, we cannot accept that his actual report has been ‘interpreted’ by Barr, Trump’s personally appointed Attorney General who is head of the DOJ, which oversees the FBI.   Barr got the job by sending a letter to Trump which aligned with Trump’s feeling that the investigation was a ‘witch hunt’. 

What was not expected was that the definition of ‘collude’ at some point changed to mean Trump ‘signed an agreement’ with Russians to help him win.  Which is why Trump kept saying No Collusion, because he knew he didn’t do that -  so no one was expecting that outcome. Yet it was happening.  The charge of obstruction included Trump not calling out the Russians as their hacking was happening during the elections, and I assume would also have  included the polling data info given to Trump/Putin associates.  All the while his family met with Russians at TT and at other times with other foreign powers (where he has business interests), to ease sanctions on them for a quiet quid pro quo of secret intel.  As an example Jarod the son in law whose family was propped up by Saudi Prince MDS’ money was given a high level security clearance which allowed Jared to provide intel on his (MDS’)enemies which resulted in the death and dismemberment of Washington Post journalist Khosoggi, who was critical of the Saudi regime. This is how they work.  Everything for money.  Life and truth are cheap.

So how could anyone in good conscience believe that Mueller would not find this evidence?  We Democrats mostly believed he would.  What we thought was that many more of Trump’s family and circle would be interviewed by SC and they weren’t.  Also apparently three weeks ago Mueller went to his boss Barr to say he couldn’t make a determination on obstruction either way.  So why not give him more time or increase the scope of the investigation?  This didn’t happen.  IMO this stinks to high heaven.

Believe me there is a real sense of despair here in the US.  Yes he didn’t ‘collude’,but they (the Republicans and Barr) are blocking access to Congress(!) of the entire unredacted  Mueller report, and have done their own cursory examination of the report and Barr (appointed by Trump) declared he has broken no laws and there is no need for the country to see the entire report.  Are you kidding me?  This is very very serious and a slippery slope for the 2020 election and more.  Now Putin  wants to establish closer ties to the US, they have cosied up to Netanyahu (the criminal) and will probably be starting a war with Iraq over this.  These are dangerous times, and I don’t see them ending anytime soon.

I want to put my faith in Congress but it’s a huge job they have in front of them, and will be stymied along the way.  The on going investigations may be negated by Trump’s  power of pardon so in essence he most likely gets away with everything.  In the US we have a checks and balances system on the three branches of government for a reason, but the Republican arm of the legislative branch is in it up to their necks in support for this corruption.  (As an aside, I’m not sure if anyone follows Teri Kanefield on Twitter, but she is excellent at explaining what’s happening now and the background on it.)

The problem now is Trump wants revenge on the FBI and feels they started this whole thing. Remember Trump,himself, publicly told Russia to hack Hillary’s emails.  He and his family has lied (if he is innocent why lie about meetings with Russians on Trump Tower, etc).  Also, he is now conveniently forgetting that James Comey, the former (Republican) head of the FBI- just days before the 2016 election — decided to open Another investigation into Hillary’s emails, which I believe really did turn the tide and got Trump the boost he needed to win.

I know you folks are dealing with the on-going Brexit problem, but since this intersects on your referendum related to Putin hacking and the general misinformation which was disseminated, I can acutely feel your pain. God help us.  And to the OP, bite your tongue sir.  I know Billy can speak for himself, but I wanted to let you know that most, if not all, Democrats thought that Mueller was the answer to our prayers.  If we ever do get to see the report, maybe things can change, but I am quickly losing hope.

P.S.  By the way SS, stormy Daniels is only the tip of the iceberg, but with checks written to her by Trump to silence her, may be the election fraud evidence needed to finally charge him, which hopefully will be followed up by the SDNY.

You say you're a Democrat? Well f*ck me, I'd never have guessed that in a million years.

[redwine]

Dear me Steve, very poor trolling there. You need to play the woman rather than the ball better than that.

With your incredible political insight I was expecting a point by point dissection of Sandy's post. Especially as "The junior encyclopedia of politics ' has such a prominent place on your mantelpiece.

[scawsby steve]

Dear me Steve, very poor trolling there. You need to play the woman rather than the ball better than that.

With your incredible political insight I was expecting a point by point dissection of Sandy's post. Especially as "The junior encyclopedia of politics ' has such a prominent place on your mantelpiece.

I don't claim to be an expert on politics, I leave that to all the backslappers on here. I just quote facts, and everything I've written above has come from reliable sources that I've read or heard.

As for trolling, I've better things to do, so I just leave that to people like you and your ilk.

[BillyStubbsTears]

Apparently the bent lawyer of that dirty f*cking slapper Stormy Daniels, has been arrested for fraud, involving millions of dollars.

Is it Trump's birthday round about now? because he just keeps getting gifts.

And this from someone who was complaining about supposedly abusive comments aimed at no-one in particular.

Hey ho...

[scawsby steve]

Apparently the bent lawyer of that dirty f*cking slapper Stormy Daniels, has been arrested for fraud, involving millions of dollars.

Is it Trump's birthday round about now? because he just keeps getting gifts.

And this from someone who was complaining about supposedly abusive comments aimed at no-one in particular.

Hey ho...

You've got me perplexed here Billy; are you saying it's worse to be abusive to a crooked lawyer and a prostitute porn star, than it is to mock elderly people with zimmer frames?

[SydneyRover]

Apparently the bent lawyer of that dirty f*cking slapper Stormy Daniels, has been arrested for fraud, involving millions of dollars.

Is it Trump's birthday round about now? because he just keeps getting gifts.

And this from someone who was complaining about supposedly abusive comments aimed at no-one in particular.

Hey ho...

You've got me perplexed here Billy; are you saying it's worse to be abusive to a crooked lawyer and a prostitute porn star, than it is to mock elderly people with zimmer frames?

It's probably better not to be abusive at all, I always regret getting down to that level.

[silent majority]

I think the obvious conclusion to draw is that Barr shut down the Mueller investigation, after all financing had been agreed for another 6 months, so why now?

A 2 year investigation was read through over one weekend and then Barr reached the conclusions that he did without reference to any parts of that investigation? It's just nonsensical.

[BillyStubbsTears]

Well aye. That's precisely what he was put in place to do.

It's a short term tactical win for Trump. Assuming America's systems are robust though, he'll go down. Just might take a little while longer.