Copps-watch (Health warning, contains stats)

[Campsall rover]

Just to try and divert attention from an undeserved result from a good performance (it will happen the other way round before the season is over):

Copps now has 563 league appearances for us, equal with R.Hillyard of Gillingham, and now making him equal 46th on the all time (1888-2019) all league clubs list.

Hillyard is not Gillingham's record appearance holder so Rovers are still 36th on the list of FL clubs listed in order of appearances by their leading League appearance maker.   

Thre are no fewer than 3 players on 564 league appearances, all of whom are their club's record league appearance maker                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                               

Remember Ron Hillyard playing for York City in goal in the early 1970’s. He was their keeper when i played a couple of games in goal for York City Juniors in April 1973.

[Chris Black come back]

I only have very vague memories of Alick being so young towards the end of his second spell but you knew he was special. Similar feelings of anticipation when he got the ball as we do with Copps now. Alick was a very gifted player who was so close to achieving his path to potential greatness by becoming a Busby Babe.

Although Copps hasn't displayed that same potential and had Premier league teams sniffing around, his ability, achievements and overall contribution over the years has in my view surpassed that of Alick. Maybe Alick was the best but Copps is the greatest??

That is a fantastic description.

[Dutch Uncle]

I only have very vague memories of Alick being so young towards the end of his second spell but you knew he was special. Similar feelings of anticipation when he got the ball as we do with Copps now. Alick was a very gifted player who was so close to achieving his path to potential greatness by becoming a Busby Babe.

Although Copps hasn't displayed that same potential and had Premier league teams sniffing around, his ability, achievements and overall contribution over the years has in my view surpassed that of Alick. Maybe Alick was the best but Copps is the greatest??

That is a fantastic description.

Totally agree. From now on for me Alick the best and Copps the greatest 

[Dutch Uncle]

So. In this country, at this moment, are there any other people with more appearances for their current club?
And currently playing, where does he rank amongst others with total league games for any club?

Dean Lewington (MK Don's) is top on just over 700.
Copps on 643.
Matt Bloomfield (Wycombe) is just over 500.
Nobody else is anywhere near those 3.

Update on this (league games only) as far as I can see from the Sky Annual for end of last season totals and Soccerbase for current updates:

Lewington 636 league games for MK Dons
Copps 568 league games for DRFC
Matt Bloomfield 459 league games for Wycombe
Barry Roche 436 league games fro Morecambe
Mark Noble 418 league games for West Ham

Mark Tyler of Peterboro had played 419 league games as of the end of last season (none in the last 2 years), but seems to be no longer on their books.

[BobG]

Alick was the best and Copps is the greatest. Perfect DBR. A beautiful aphorism.

BobG

[DRFC_TID_93]

Any update on this after the festive fixtures? Must have climbed a bit

[Dutch Uncle]

Any update on this after the festive fixtures? Must have climbed a bit

After today Copps has drawn level with West Brom great, striker Tony Brown on 574 league appearances, is now equal 35th on the all time list ordered by number of league appearances for one club. The next 3 above are all goalkeepers - Alan Hodgkinson of Sheffield United (576 from 1954-70), our very own Neville Southall with 578 for Everton between 1981-97, and Sam Bertram with 579 either side of World War 2 (1934-55). Copps recently overtook 3 players on 571 - Goalkeepers John Simpson of Gillingham and Kevin Keelan of Norwich, and defender Jim Cannon of Palace.

Rovers meanwhile have climbed to equal 29th with WBA in the list of clubs ordered by number of league appearances of their leading league appearance maker. We will move up when Copps overtakes Southall and Bartram, but not Hodgkinson - the Blades leading league appearance maker is Joe Shaw with 632.

Some great names of football on this list with Copps

[Chris Black come back]

We can only dream about what he can achieve with a contract extension for next season.

[BobG]

Is there anyone around who can remember Peter Doherty playing? My Dad always used to tell me that he really was more than a bit special. I never saw him though so I can't really compare. One of the things that my old dad used to say about him was that he was a revolutionary. I was led to believe he was the first manager to ever consciously and deliberately mess around with the numbers on the shirts so that the opposition didn't know who was doing what. Number 4 at centre forward and number 8 at right back sort of thing.

Anyone got any  more anecdotes?

Cheers

BobG

PS Where would Clarrie Jordan rate in the DRFC superstar stakes? He has to be right up there surely?

[idler]

I remember older fans telling how Doherty would take a penalty and the ball trickled into the net. Apparently the keepers usually couldn't get near them despite the lack of speed.

[BobG]

Thanks Idler

I hope I'm not making this up but thinking about Peter Doherty and his antics with the numbers on the shirts, I have a definite feeling that he got into quite hot water with the the FL over it but he refused to back down on the grounds that there was no riule saying a number on a shirt meant the person wearing it had no choice but to play in s predetermined specific role.  In other words, a tough, curmudgeonly revolutionary! My kinda guy

Cheers

BobG

[idler]

Hubert Bates has a lot to answer for Bob. I'm sure that we wouldn't have dropped like a stone without his interference.
I remember him bragging about how the club were doing and how we had the great new floodlights at our club. I think that the supporters club donated thousands towards them if I remember right.

[Ldr]

Is there anyone around who can remember Peter Doherty playing? My Dad always used to tell me that he really was more than a bit special. I never saw him though so I can't really compare. One of the things that my old dad used to say about him was that he was a revolutionary. I was led to believe he was the first manager to ever consciously and deliberately mess around with the numbers on the shirts so that the opposition didn't know who was doing what. Number 4 at centre forward and number 8 at right back sort of thing.

Anyone got any  more anecdotes?

Cheers

BobG

PS Where would Clarrie Jordan rate in the DRFC superstar stakes? He has to be right up there surely?

Tom Keetley ...............

[BobG]

Hi Idler

My old Dad used to get extremely nerked if you mentioned the name Hubert Bates in his presence. I remember seeing the bloke at BV when I was a kid. My Dad loathed him with a passion. He always said pretty much what you did  - Hubert Bates killed the Rovers. He certainly drove Peter Doherty out. I think it was to do with the fact that Peter was Catholic - though how Peter got recruited in the first place is beyond me if that's true. Didn't he go off to Bristol Rovers after leaving BV taking at least one of our better players with him? No. JUst checked. It was Bristol City he went to. I just discovered he scored 56 golas for the Rovers in 103 games! That's some strike rate that is.

Ye Gods!! He scored 79 in 130 games for Man City including 30 in the 36/37 season when they won the Football League. I've just found a quote from Len Shackleton:

"Peter Doherty was surely the genius among geniuses. Possessor of the most baffling body swerve in football, able to perform all the tricks with the ball, owning a shot like the kick of a mule, and, with all this, having such tremendous enthusiasm for the game that he would work like a horse for ninety minutes. That was pipe-smoking Peter Doherty, the Irish redhead who, I am convinced, had enough football skill to stroll through a game smoking that pipe-and still make the other twenty-one players appear second-raters. But of course Peter never strolled through anything. His energy had to be seen to be appreciated."

And he was a rebel too! Apparently "His coaching techniques were revolutionary at the time. He emphasised ball practice and instead of endless laps of the pitch, Doherty suggested volleyball, "to promote jumping, timing and judgement"; basketball, "to encourage split-second decision-making and finding space"; and walking football, "to build up calf muscles"

Sorry. Off on one aren't I?! He's a contender though for sure.

BobG

PS He passed a penalty sideways while he was at Derby County. Just a bit before that Arsenal lot messed it up!

[scawsby steve]

Hi Idler

My old Dad used to get extremely nerked if you mentioned the name Hubert Bates in his presence. I remember seeing the bloke at BV when I was a kid. My Dad loathed him with a passion. He always said pretty much what you did  - Hubert Bates killed the Rovers. He certainly drove Peter Doherty out. I think it was to do with the fact that Peter was Catholic - though how Peter got recruited in the first place is beyond me if that's true. Didn't he go off to Bristol Rovers after leaving BV taking at least one of our better players with him? No. JUst checked. It was Bristol City he went to. I just discovered he scored 56 golas for the Rovers in 103 games! That's some strike rate that is.

Ye Gods!! He scored 79 in 130 games for Man City including 30 in the 36/37 season when they won the Football League. I've just found a quote from Len Shackleton:

"Peter Doherty was surely the genius among geniuses. Possessor of the most baffling body swerve in football, able to perform all the tricks with the ball, owning a shot like the kick of a mule, and, with all this, having such tremendous enthusiasm for the game that he would work like a horse for ninety minutes. That was pipe-smoking Peter Doherty, the Irish redhead who, I am convinced, had enough football skill to stroll through a game smoking that pipe-and still make the other twenty-one players appear second-raters. But of course Peter never strolled through anything. His energy had to be seen to be appreciated."

And he was a rebel too! Apparently "His coaching techniques were revolutionary at the time. He emphasised ball practice and instead of endless laps of the pitch, Doherty suggested volleyball, "to promote jumping, timing and judgement"; basketball, "to encourage split-second decision-making and finding space"; and walking football, "to build up calf muscles"

Sorry. Off on one aren't I?! He's a contender though for sure.

BobG

PS He passed a penalty sideways while he was at Derby County. Just a bit before that Arsenal lot messed it up!

Good post Bob. He did take one of our better players to Bristol City with him; none other than the great Bert Tindill.

[Campsall rover]

So Dutch Uncle i will let you tell me as it’s so match easier than trying to work it out myself.
If in August we get another full season out of Copps where is he going to be in the pecking order?
Say 20 more games this season and 40 more next.

Going to go past an awful lot of the ones ahead i suspect.

Calling Copps a legend i think is going to do him a disservice by May 2021.
Do hope he is able to go on as long as he wants to and doesn’t have to call it a day through injury.
Been very fortunate in his career. Some very good players haven’t been so fortunate.
The fact that he has looked after himself so much off the pitch and been a model professional will have been a major factor in his fitness record.

He can never be replaced really, I know no one player is bigger than the team and never will be but
THERE IS ONLY ONE JAMES COPPINGER.

[Chris Black come back]

Last season Copps played in 43 league games, which is the joint highest league game return in his career - shared with 2002/03 at Exeter City.

[Campsall rover]

Last season Copps played in 43 league games, which is the joint highest league game return in his career - shared with 2002/03 at Exeter City.

He is like a vintage wine.

[Bristol Red Rover]

Last season Copps played in 43 league games, which is the joint highest league game return in his career - shared with 2002/03 at Exeter City.

He is like a vintage wine.

Suave, definitely not Chablis, and has a fair bit of silverware in his Cabernet.

[Jimmydee]

I was laughing when Copps was being roughly tackled and there was a fella sat behind us and shouted ‘go easy on Copps,  he’s antique’ ......Brilliant.

[Dutch Uncle]

So Dutch Uncle i will let you tell me as it’s so match easier than trying to work it out myself.
If in August we get another full season out of Copps where is he going to be in the pecking order?
Say 20 more games this season and 40 more next.

Going to go past an awful lot of the ones ahead i suspect.

Calling Copps a legend i think is going to do him a disservice by May 2021.
Do hope he is able to go on as long as he wants to and doesn’t have to call it a day through injury.
Been very fortunate in his career. Some very good players haven’t been so fortunate.
The fact that he has looked after himself so much off the pitch and been a model professional will have been a major factor in his fitness record.

He can never be replaced really, I know no one player is bigger than the team and never will be but
THERE IS ONLY ONE JAMES COPPINGER.

Hi Campsall - good question. First of all I have to say the research in making the list of all players since 1888 who have made 500 or more league appearances for one club was a very significant effort, which took a lot of effort from The Red Baron, Bristol Red Rover and I - so not easy to do.

If Copps plays all remaining league games this season he can reach 597 (Play offs do not count). That would put him equal 21st with Jacky Brownsword of Scunthorpe and just behind Peter Bonetti with 600. If he played all 46 matches next season he could reach 643 which would put him in 11th position above Ian Callaghan of Liverpool (640) and behind John McDermott of Grimsby (647). Joe Shaw of Sheffield United is 12th on 632.

Portsmouth are the only club to have two players in the top 10, namely Jimmy Dickinson in 2nd with 764 and Alan Knight in 5th with 683.

The only caveat in all this is Dean Lewington for MK Dons - the only player other than Copps with more than 500 league appearances for one club and still playing. He had 619 appearances when this season started and has played most matches for them this season and is currently on 642. So he will likely mean that 12th will be as high as Copps can get if he plays next season.

[Dutch Uncle]

In addition to all the appearances, IMHO the following shows the unique psoition of James Coppinger in the history of Doncaster Rovers:

1.  Won three promotions with the club (only Paul Green has equalled that)

2.  Played in Rovers best FAC run/season ever (we have reached the 5th round on 4 other occasiosn but always when starting from Round 3)

3.  Played in Rovers best Football League Cup run/season ever (we reached the 5th round in 1975-76 but the 2-7 defeat to Spurs, however well we played and I was there, was not as close as the penalties loss to Arsenal)

4.  Played in our only national knockout trophy (JPT) winning team

5.  Played in a team finishing with our highest league standing in the national pyramid since our first ever league seson in 1901-02 (we were 12th in the Championship for 32nd place - we did finish 11th in Division 2 when there were 22 teams in League one in 1950-51, so 33rd nationally. In 1901-02 there were two leagues of 18 clubs and we finished 7th in Dvision 2 for 25th overall)

6.  Played in front of the 2 largest crowds in Rovers history (Wembley and Cardiff)

If that doesn't qualify as legend then nothing does 

[IDM]

He’s a decent bloke as well..

[Campsall rover]

He’s a decent bloke as well..

His initials are JC.
Probably can walk on water.

Hope he doesn’t read this forum as it must be a bit embarrassing for him reading all the praise which is continually heaped on him.

[Dutch Uncle]

Another update now that Copps has moved onto 580 league appearances for us, and is now 32nd on the list of all players ordered by league appearances for one club.

He has recently overtaken Neville Southall (once of this parish) who had 578 league appearances for Everton, and Sam Bartram of Charlton whose 579 league appearances as Goalkeeper were interrupted by the Second World War.

Next above Copps on the list is Ronnie Clayton of Blackburn with 581 league appearances from 1950 to 1968. Then there is a gap and the player in 30th place on the list is none other than our former manager and hero Billy Bremner who made 586 league appearances for Leeds.

[Campsall rover]

Another update now that Copps has moved onto 580 league appearances for us, and is now 32nd on the list of all players ordered by league appearances for one club.

He has recently overtaken Neville Southall (once of this parish) who had 578 league appearances for Everton, and Sam Bartram of Charlton whose 579 league appearances as Goalkeeper were interrupted by the Second World War.

Next above Copps on the list is Ronnie Clayton of Blackburn with 581 league appearances from 1950 to 1968. Then there is a gap and the player in 30th place on the list is none other than our former manager and hero Billy Bremner who made 586 league appearances for Leeds.

So he is not going to get to the magic 600 this season.
He has to have 1 more year. Not on sentiment but based on his ability and influence. Just 1 more.
Then another and then another. 

[Juddy]

Further up the thread Peter Doherty has been talked about, I have a hardback book wrote by him first published in 1947 titled Spotlight on Football if anyone would like to read it PM me and I could meet on a match day at the Keepmoat to let you take it and have a read