Let's talk about the Burton Albion game

[selby]

  Back to league 1 action after our enforced cancellation at Tranmere, against a Burton side that have a far better record away from home than in home games.
 They have played seven games away winning three, drawing two, and losing only two, and have scored thirteen goals while doing so, so will pose a threat to our defence, and in young Cloughie have one of the best tactically aware managers in the football league, and will be well aware of our strengths and weaknesses, and have players that  can cause problems if we are not on our game.
  Boyce has always caused us problems when fit, and Brayford has been good against us in past games, and as a team always  require our full respect for being competitive with minimal resources financially, but guess what usually do well in cup competitions,  and look to use the money to their advantage, a novel concept but one we could consider, or am I dreaming?
   We will probably start with the team that started at Southend, myself I would start Joe Wright for Daniels, but don't expect it, and the other one could be Ennis For Thomas, but I would stick with Thomas after his two goals, but would not be surprised to see Ennis start.
  Would you change the starting line up?
  Do you like me see this as one of our hard home games?
  Can we expect many away fans to attend?
  Lots of discussion points about this game, please have your say.
   

[Colemans Left Hook]

i was thinking Rovers never seem to beat Burton in the league - they put a spanner in the works early last season when they won 1-0 at their place  -- 

even the end of season match at the keepmoat ended a draw when when Rovers got lots of players injured in the game and ended up with 9 men and relegated

checking only 4 league matches ever played 3 draws and one defeat 1-0



https://www.11v11.com/teams/doncaster-rovers/tab/opposingTeams/opposition/Burton%20Albion/

i think we all think there will be only one goal in it if that

[Dutch Uncle]

i was thinking Rovers never seem to beat Burton in the league - they put a spanner in the works early last season when they won 1-0 at their place  -- 

even the end of season match at the keepmoat ended a draw when when Rovers got lots of players injured in the game and ended up with 9 men and relegated

checking only 4 league matches ever played 3 draws and one defeat 1-0



https://www.11v11.com/teams/doncaster-rovers/tab/opposingTeams/opposition/Burton%20Albion/

i think we all think there will be only one goal in it if that

Burton are one of only three current Football League teams we have played and never beaten in the Football League (we have beaten them in the Conference and in the forerunner of last night's cup when it was called the Johnstone's Paint Trophy). The other 2 we have never beaten in FL matches are Sunderland (beaten in an FA Cup tie) and Newcastle. We have not beaten Accrington Stanley in the FL since they reformed in the 1960's although we beat them several times prior to that and have beaten them in the Johnstone's Paint Trophy.

We have never played Chelsea or Forest Green Rovers in FL matches. We have beaten the latter in Conference matches.

As well as Newcastle and Chelsea, there is one other team we have played and never beaten in FL, Conference or Cup matches....... anyone remember Leek Town?

[steve@dcfd]

If Taylor is fit not there last night then he should start. Only change from the Southend game would be Ennis for Thomas. Our record against Burton is poor so let’s hope we can score.

[Chris Black come back]

On form, this will be a tough game as they have an excellent away record in the league this season.

Played 7, won 3, drawn 2, lost 2.

Those wins were at Oxford United (where they put four past them to win 2-4), Gillingham and MK Dons. They drew away at Portsmouth and Shrewsbury. They have only drawn a blank away in the league once this season.

Expect this to be a difficult afternoon.

[selby]

  In Clough's after match summary last season at Doncaster, they scored a late goal by Brayford I think, Clough said that they usually left Brayford back at corners because of his pace to cover a break away, but Doncaster never left a man up front bringing everyone back to defend set pieces and corners, so he sent him forward into the attack.
  That is thinking on your feet adapting to a situation, adaptable management, a simple thing that got a result.

[goalkick]

Thomas would be on bench.was lost in the game last night.

[adamtherover]

  In Clough's after match summary last season at Doncaster, they scored a late goal by Brayford I think, Clough said that they usually left Brayford back at corners because of his pace to cover a break away, but Doncaster never left a man up front bringing everyone back to defend set pieces and corners, so he sent him forward into the attack.
  That is thinking on your feet adapting to a situation, adaptable management, a simple thing that got a result.

this is the thing that baffles me most in pro football, and most managers do it!.   If we have everyone in the penno box, who is the clearance going to go to?, where is the break away gonna come from???
Plus, 1 forward on the half way line means 2 defenders on him, so straight way less pressure in the box. And lets be fair, alfie  isnt going to win any headers, so keep him on the half way line!!  Its really not rocket science.

[IDM]

Baffles me too..

One thing we have done with successive managers and I really don’t get it, unless we are defending a slender lead toward the end of a game..

[Chris Black come back]

Some things endure. Shit corners. Leaving nobody up. Mark Wilson.

[Donnywolf]

  In Clough's after match summary last season at Doncaster, they scored a late goal by Brayford I think, Clough said that they usually left Brayford back at corners because of his pace to cover a break away, but Doncaster never left a man up front bringing everyone back to defend set pieces and corners, so he sent him forward into the attack.
  That is thinking on your feet adapting to a situation, adaptable management, a simple thing that got a result.

this is the thing that baffles me most in pro football, and most managers do it!.   If we have everyone in the penno box, who is the clearance going to go to?, where is the break away gonna come from???
Plus, 1 forward on the half way line means 2 defenders on him, so straight way less pressure in the box. And lets be fair, alfie  isnt going to win any headers, so keep him on the half way line!!  Its really not rocket science.

I know an opposition Penalty is different to a an opposition corner but we should just think "Brentford"

It probably would not have happened if "we" were all back - so leave the fastest bloke forrad

[scawsby steve]

Not trying hard enough in cup competitions; not leaving anyone on the halfway line when defending corners.

It seems some posters aren't very pleased with DM at the moment. Why not just trust him to manage as he sees fit?

We're 7th in the league with games in hand.

[selby]

  Steve, who is blaming DM for defending corners, I was pointing out what I heard on the radio last season, and thought at the time how clever of Clough to recognise no need for fast covering players in the circumstances, and out thinking our manager, Darren was at West Brom at the time.
  And the point of fielding weakened sides in cups is aimed at all the last three managers, and others before them, and the money we have thrown away, to on the face of it inferior teams in the  league table, which could have helped us with  our financing of player acquisitions. Especially when the last two managers  used  financial restraints  to vacate their managers job with us.
 Another scenario that could be played out is a complete lack of form before Christmas, and us being behind in the ambition of a top six position at the end of the season, and out of the FA cup, and some of our better players being sought after by other clubs, What would be their reaction to that situation be if we were to be in a position of nothing to play for to the end of the season? Marquis probably stopped because we had something to play for to the end of the season.
  I don't think that will happen, but could, and I am a big believer in success breads success, and it is obvious to me that  I lay more importance in cup competitions than other posters on this forum, but put that down to probably being more ambitious for success for the club than most, why enter a competition if you are not bothered about doing as well as possible in it?

[foxbat]

Adam's suggestion of leaving Alfie upfront at corners sounds like brilliant plot to me. Possible clearance leadingtoa breakaway goal situation.

[scawsby steve]

  Steve, who is blaming DM for defending corners, I was pointing out what I heard on the radio last season, and thought at the time how clever of Clough to recognise no need for fast covering players in the circumstances, and out thinking our manager, Darren was at West Brom at the time.
  And the point of fielding weakened sides in cups is aimed at all the last three managers, and others before them, and the money we have thrown away, to on the face of it inferior teams in the  league table, which could have helped us with  our financing of player acquisitions. Especially when the last two managers  used  financial restraints  to vacate their managers job with us.
 Another scenario that could be played out is a complete lack of form before Christmas, and us being behind in the ambition of a top six position at the end of the season, and out of the FA cup, and some of our better players being sought after by other clubs, What would be their reaction to that situation be if we were to be in a position of nothing to play for to the end of the season? Marquis probably stopped because we had something to play for to the end of the season.
  I don't think that will happen, but could, and I am a big believer in success breads success, and it is obvious to me that  I lay more importance in cup competitions than other posters on this forum, but put that down to probably being more ambitious for success for the club than most, why enter a competition if you are not bothered about doing as well as possible in it?

I may be wrong here Brian, but isn't it compulsory for teams to enter the cup competitions?

[selby]

  Foxbat, who would you leave out of the team for him to stop up field? and Steve I think you have to apply to enter the FA cup before a certain date, the others maybe with the membership of the EFL. automatic, but am not be sure.

[NickDRFC]

Selby, it seems to be that you’re advocating always playing our strongest side in every game. What happens, then, if by Christmas 3 or 4 of our best players are out with injuries and the rest are knackered? Players like May and Gomes, who you think aren’t good enough to come into the team last night, then have to play half a dozen league games with barely any match fitness. Getting promoted to the Championship is a much bigger financial boost than getting to the latter stages of the EFL Trophy or a couple of extra rounds of the League Cup, and not sensibly rotating the squad brings a big risk to future league results. Football’s a squad game and the manager has to pick his team pragmatically, and he’s prioritising the right competition for me.

Plus, I think your moans would carry more weight if Moore was making 11 changes. When we lost to Grimsby in the League Cup there were 8 players I’d say are in our strongest XI. Not exactly playing the reserves was it?

[tyke1962]

I'm always impressed with Nigel Clough , he's vastly underrated and is a very astute tactician .

He brought his Burton team to Oakwell last season in March and completely nullified us in a 0-0 draw .

A few weeks later at their spot they beat us 3-1 and ended our 21 game unbeaten run , Clough once again doing us with his tactical nous .

Very dangerous opponents .

[drfchound]

Baffles me too..

One thing we have done with successive managers and I really don’t get it, unless we are defending a slender lead toward the end of a game..

It also has me wondering why we get eleven men back in our box when defending corners.
Even late in a game defending a slender lead, surely it is better to have a player on halfway, making sure at least two defenders are back, otherwise any ball cleared away is till going to be delivered back into a crowd scene penalty area.

[scawsby steve]

Selby, it seems to be that you’re advocating always playing our strongest side in every game. What happens, then, if by Christmas 3 or 4 of our best players are out with injuries and the rest are knackered? Players like May and Gomes, who you think aren’t good enough to come into the team last night, then have to play half a dozen league games with barely any match fitness. Getting promoted to the Championship is a much bigger financial boost than getting to the latter stages of the EFL Trophy or a couple of extra rounds of the League Cup, and not sensibly rotating the squad brings a big risk to future league results. Football’s a squad game and the manager has to pick his team pragmatically, and he’s prioritising the right competition for me.

Plus, I think your moans would carry more weight if Moore was making 11 changes. When we lost to Grimsby in the League Cup there were 8 players I’d say are in our strongest XI. Not exactly playing the reserves was it?

That's the best post of this thread Nick.

[the vicar]

  Back to league 1 action after our enforced cancellation at Tranmere, against a Burton side that have a far better record away from home than in home games.
 They have played seven games away winning three, drawing two, and losing only two, and have scored thirteen goals while doing so, so will pose a threat to our defence, and in young Cloughie have one of the best tactically aware managers in the football league, and will be well aware of our strengths and weaknesses, and have players that  can cause problems if we are not on our game.
  Boyce has always caused us problems when fit, and Brayford has been good against us in past games, and as a team always  require our full respect for being competitive with minimal resources financially, but guess what usually do well in cup competitions,  and look to use the money to their advantage, a novel concept but one we could consider, or am I dreaming?
   We will probably start with the team that started at Southend, myself I would start Joe Wright for Daniels, but don't expect it, and the other one could be Ennis For Thomas, but I would stick with Thomas after his two goals, but would not be surprised to see Ennis start.
  Would you change the starting line up?
  Do you like me see this as one of our hard home games?
  Can we expect many away fans to attend?
  Lots of discussion points about this game, please have your say.
   

selby mate I don't think even DM
Or any one knows our strengths and weakness lol

[selby]

Nick , I think you had better read what I have said about Gomes again. Try harder you will find my comments on that player on another thread, as a matter of fact I thought he had a good game last night.

[selby]

  Burton played very well on Tuesday against a strong  Leicester City side( they made a fortune getting to the semi final last season taking cup games seriously as an income stream unlike ourselves)  with Boyce giving  Evans a torrid night down the middle, and Broadhead a player on loan from Everton playing very well.
   Clough always has his teams well drilled, on meagre resources he moulds a team with good habits, and tactically is very astute, a very good manager who knows the game inside out.
   Others have stated that we don't have a hard game up to Christmas, I would say we don't have an easy game all season, and we need to be up for this game to get anything at all from it.
   We are capable of some great passing football, Taylor and Sadlier have a bit of magic in wide areas, and Coppinger Sheaf and Whiteman are a match in midfield for teams in a higher division and we have a steady defence. We are a good side when players are fit, so an attractive good game is in prospect and both sides managed by astute tacticians.
  I am hoping for a good game, and a hard fought three points hopefully.

[RoversAlias]

How can anyone claim we don't take Cup competitions seriously when we got to the FA Cup 5th Round last season?

The EFL Trophy is a farce, it doesn't deserve to be taken seriously and most clubs and managers know that. Time to accept that, Selby.

We were unlucky to go out of the EFL Cup at Grimsby this season, it was nothing to do with team selection.

[NickDRFC]

How can anyone claim we don't take Cup competitions seriously when we got to the FA Cup 5th Round last season?

The EFL Trophy is a farce, it doesn't deserve to be taken seriously and most clubs and managers know that. Time to accept that, Selby.

We were unlucky to go out of the EFL Cup at Grimsby this season, it was nothing to do with team selection.

As I said above, we had 8 of our strongest 11 playing at Grimsby. Selby seems unwilling or unable to acknowledge it because it doesn’t fit in with his blinkered narrative.

[selby]

  Over the years we have thrown  Millions of pounds away losing to teams who are not as good as us, Exeter made enough to keep them going for three seasons  when they knocked us out and then played Man U in their pomp. Rochdale earnt enough to relay their pitch a couple of years ago going on to play Spurs at Wembley beating us a week after we had beaten them in the league with a stronger side, out thinking Ferguson the week after. Grimsby this season went on to play at Chelsea and make money, and we lost to Notts county in a season when they hardly won a game, and fielded a team that a local teams manager  would not have picked. 
  If you are happy with that great, I am not, and most of it has been down to attitude, wanting to do well and creating enthusiasm in the local area to support the local side, not playing our strongest side, if you leave 3 players out it is nearly a third of the team, and disrupts it.

[NickDRFC]

Most of the games you referenced happened when other managers were in charge - the Exeter game was 15 years ago now!

We put out a strong enough team to beat Grimsby (a Grimsby side that made more changes than us to their side, incidentally), but didn't - we don't have a right to beat sides below us in the league/in the league below - we will lose games against them, it happens.

If you think that recognising that a manager might make a few changes for some games and prioritise certain competitions shows a poor attitude or not wanting to do well, then so be it - I notice you've not replied to what I posted earlier (other than to say you rate Gomes, which really missed the point - his name was just an example of using a fringe player) so I'll just repeat it.

Selby, it seems to be that you’re advocating always playing our strongest side in every game. What happens, then, if by Christmas 3 or 4 of our best players are out with injuries and the rest are knackered? Players like May and Gomes, who you think aren’t good enough to come into the team last night, then have to play half a dozen league games with barely any match fitness. Getting promoted to the Championship is a much bigger financial boost than getting to the latter stages of the EFL Trophy or a couple of extra rounds of the League Cup, and not sensibly rotating the squad brings a big risk to future league results. Football’s a squad game and the manager has to pick his team pragmatically, and he’s prioritising the right competition for me.

I feel like you're just completely entrenched in your view on our team selections/cup record (I've pointed out several times in the past that it's actually pretty good since our return to the football league) - you're welcome to your opinion, it's just a shame you can't see any counter-argument to it.

[selby]

  Nick, yes I am entrenched, I will not change my mind.

[scawsby steve]

  Nick, yes I am entrenched, I will not change my mind.

Nothing wrong with that Brian. It's admirable for someone to stick to their guns. However, you're definitely fighting a losing battle on this one. All managers and clubs are prioritising league matches above cup competitions these days, and the FA Cup just doesn't have the glamour it used to have in days gone by.

Look at Liverpool. They've just reached the quarter-finals of the League Cup, and might not play it because of commitments elsewhere.

Of course I'd like to see us make some money on a cup run, but for me it doesn't come anywhere near a top 6 finish as a priority.

[NickDRFC]

  Nick, yes I am entrenched, I will not change my mind.

Progress is impossible without change, and those who cannot change their mind cannot change anything.

A wise man changes his mind sometimes, but a fool never. To change your mind is the best evidence you have one.