Reasons to be Cheerful

[Herbert Anchovy]

Whilst waiting endlessly in the Dentist waiting room, I read an absolutely fascinating article about peoples perceptions of the UK's 'Golden Age' and specifically when people believe this was.

An academic study took place a couple of years ago where people were questioned on whether they felt that the UK was better now than in the past. The study showed that the majority of those questioned felt that the UK was 'worse now than in the past'. Probably no surprise there. They were then asked when the felt that the UK was 'at it's best'. What the report showed was that, generally speaking, people felt that the UK was better when they were in their 20's. So, people in their 20's in the 60's thought it was at its best then, people in their 20's in the 70's thought that was best etc..etc... The overall feeling was that the country was wealthier, more tolerant, more peaceful, less crime ridden and less stressful during these specific decades.

The study then grouped together those people who felt that the UK was a much better place to live in the 80's and 90's. The group were presented with the claim that the UK had made huge improvements over the past 20, 30 and 40 years within a number of metrics. Again, unsurprisingly, the group en masse, disagreed with this statement. They were then presented with a range of facts and statistical evidence to support this theory that compared the country  20-30 years ago to today:

Median income has increased considerably, particularly for Pensioners
The proportion of the UK living in absolute poverty has decreased by a third
The proportion of children growing up in households where nobody works has halved
Life expectancy in the UK has increased by 5 years since the 90's
Infant mortality has fallen by 40%
Consumption of cigarettes, drugs and alcohol in young people has significantly reduced
Teen pregnancies are at their lowest level since 1969
Not only are young people better behaved, they're also better educated with a record high number of 'disadvantaged students' going to University
Society is much more tolerant. In 1990 58% of people were against civil partnerships between two adults of the same sex. In 2013 it was 15%
The UK is safer from terrorism than ever before. The number of people killed by terrorism between 2002 and 2017 was less than the average number killed by terrorists each year between 1968 and 2001
Overall crime has fallen by two thirds
A record low number of adults (two in every 100) are likely to be a victim of violent crime
Fewer people than ever are killed on Britains roads

When these facts were presented to the group and were then asked if they STILL felt that the country was better 20-30 years ago, only 10% changed their view! A psychologist blames this on something called 'Availability heuristic' (I think!!) where humans are more likely to remember negative news, rather than good news. Consequently, when the media and their endless tales of death and destruction, telling us the country is going to hell in a handcart, they're onto something. They know that bad news sells!

So, it seems that nostalgia blinds us all when the fact is that, overall, Britain is less dangerous, less poverty stricken and more tolerant than how we perhaps may remember it!

[BillyStubbsTears]

That goes a long way to explaining why people tend to get more right wing the older they get.

[scawsby steve]

That goes a long way to explaining why people tend to get more right wing the older they get.

Dead right BST about people getting more right wing the older they get, although we'd probably disagree about the reasons for it. You'd put it down to those stupid facts and figures quoted above whereas I know that it's down to life experience and wisdom.

Children better behaved nowadays? Have you heard the vile language they use in the street? It was an unwritten rule when I was a young bloke that you never swore in front of women and kids. Now they're worse than us.

It all boils down to the obsession many of you on here have with statistics, which can be manipulated to suit any argument or agenda. Like I've said many times, I view the world with MY eyes, and think about it with MY brain.

Some of you need to walk round the town centre a bit more.

[Herbert Anchovy]

It’s true that many people move to a more right wing view point as they get older. I heard a man on the radio explain why he was voting Tory. “ When i was a young man, living on a council estate, no job and no money then I needed Labour. Now I’m retired, have a nice house and good pension I don’t need them anymore, so I’m voting Conservative.”

[Herbert Anchovy]

That goes a long way to explaining why people tend to get more right wing the older they get.

Dead right BST about people getting more right wing the older they get, although we'd probably disagree about the reasons for it. You'd put it down to those stupid facts and figures quoted above whereas I know that it's down to life experience and wisdom.

Children more polite nowadays? Have you heard the vile language they use in the street? It was an unwritten rule when I was a young bloke that you never swore in front of women and kids. Now they're worse than us.

It all boils down to the obsession many of you on here have with statistics, which can be manipulated to suit any argument or agenda. Like I've said many times, I view the world with MY eyes, and think about it with MY brain.

Some of you need to walk round the town centre a bit more.

As the article says SS, you remember bad examples more than good. You won’t remember the countless young people who you walk past everyday who haven’t caused a problem.

As for the stats, well I believe them more than I believe you...no offence though.

[scawsby steve]

That goes a long way to explaining why people tend to get more right wing the older they get.

Dead right BST about people getting more right wing the older they get, although we'd probably disagree about the reasons for it. You'd put it down to those stupid facts and figures quoted above whereas I know that it's down to life experience and wisdom.

Children more polite nowadays? Have you heard the vile language they use in the street? It was an unwritten rule when I was a young bloke that you never swore in front of women and kids. Now they're worse than us.

It all boils down to the obsession many of you on here have with statistics, which can be manipulated to suit any argument or agenda. Like I've said many times, I view the world with MY eyes, and think about it with MY brain.

Some of you need to walk round the town centre a bit more.

As the article says SS, you remember bad examples more than good. You won’t remember the countless young people who you walk past everyday who haven’t caused a problem.

As for the stats, well I believe them more than I believe you...no offence though.

That's fine Herbert, I don't need you to believe me.

Have a nice day.x

[Bentley Bullet]

It’s true that many people move to a more right wing view point as they get older. I heard a man on the radio explain why he was voting Tory. “ When i was a young man, living on a council estate, no job and no money then I needed Labour. Now I’m retired, have a nice house and good pension I don’t need them anymore, so I’m voting Conservative.”

People getting more right-wing as they get older doesn't necessarily mean they are getting more selfish. They are no more selfish than when they were young and poorer. Back in the days when they were less well off, they wanted a share in rich people's wealth just like the new generation of youngsters do now.

[BillyStubbsTears]

Stupid facts and figures...

Dear God up above.

I'm not dealing with shite like facts! I've got my own prejudices to tell ME what's happening.

[drfchound]

That goes a long way to explaining why people tend to get more right wing the older they get.

Just imagine this forum in twenty years time.

BST posting loads of links telling us how good the Torys are.

[tommy toes]

It’s true that many people move to a more right wing view point as they get older. I heard a man on the radio explain why he was voting Tory. “ When i was a young man, living on a council estate, no job and no money then I needed Labour. Now I’m retired, have a nice house and good pension I don’t need them anymore, so I’m voting Conservative.”

People getting more right-wing as they get older doesn't necessarily mean they are getting more selfish. They are no more selfish than when they were young and poorer. Back in the days when they were less well off, they wanted a share in rich people's wealth just like the new generation of youngsters do now.

...From the man who voted Remain for selfish reasons then switched to Leave when it suited.

Me? I've got more left wing as I enter my dotage despite being comfortable.
Is there summat wrong wi me?

Yeah I want everyone to be better off and no-one living in poverty.

Ordinary working people will be FAR better off if this lousy Tory Government is shown the door.
And it's starting to look like it just might happen.

[Bentley Bullet]

I want everyone to be better off too, it's how we go about it that causes differing opinions.

[wilts rover]

How do you think everyone can be better off BB?

[wilts rover]

Back to HA's OP, I would encourage people to read Raymond William's The Country & The City.

He says pretty much what HA says although takes it back further. Every generation since the 16th century has thought that life was better 'back then' and society has declined during their lifetime.

https://www.nottingham.ac.uk/english/documents/innervate/11-12/1112rosiemodbritfict.pdf

[Bentley Bullet]

How do you think everyone can be better off BB?

Better education? higher employment? More selective immigration?

How do you think everyone can be better off Wilts?

[wilts rover]

I am a school governor BB, have been for 8 years now. I have seen 4 heads come and go and am doing the current head's appraisal next week (it will be good, he's well clued in). In all that time the school's results have not improved at all although the teaching has.

I said to the current head a couple of years ago what is the biggest difference between the high and low achievers. He said the biggest difference is the help they get at home. We have 40% of pupils who from socially deprived households (FSM) who are below the poverty index. And apparently we have full employment.

By creating a fairer funded socially responsible society that has a mixed economy not entirely service based.

[Herbert Anchovy]

That goes a long way to explaining why people tend to get more right wing the older they get.

Dead right BST about people getting more right wing the older they get, although we'd probably disagree about the reasons for it. You'd put it down to those stupid facts and figures quoted above whereas I know that it's down to life experience and wisdom.

Children more polite nowadays? Have you heard the vile language they use in the street? It was an unwritten rule when I was a young bloke that you never swore in front of women and kids. Now they're worse than us.

It all boils down to the obsession many of you on here have with statistics, which can be manipulated to suit any argument or agenda. Like I've said many times, I view the world with MY eyes, and think about it with MY brain.

Some of you need to walk round the town centre a bit more.

As the article says SS, you remember bad examples more than good. You won’t remember the countless young people who you walk past everyday who haven’t caused a problem.

As for the stats, well I believe them more than I believe you...no offence though.

That's fine Herbert, I don't need you to believe me.

Have a nice day.x

Thanks SS, i always do.

[SydneyRover]

Why people vote right wing when they become  'rich'

"Does Money Make People Right-Wing and Inegalitarian? A Longitudinal Study of Lottery Winners''


https://warwick.ac.uk/fac/soc/economics/research/workingpapers/2014/twerp_1039_oswald.pdf

[scawsby steve]

Stupid facts and figures...

Dear God up above.

I'm not dealing with shite like facts! I've got my own prejudices to tell ME what's happening.

I can't believe that someone with a mind as brilliant as your's doesn't trust it above those who are quoting facts that could come from anywhere.

I'll bet that most of those who collated those facts that Herbert quoted are too young to even remember the 60s, whereas I was there.

How many times have you had a completely different take on a Rovers match than what the DFP has reported?

[BillyStubbsTears]

SS.

All of those are verified facts

See, there ARE things out there in the world that are objectively true. Facts. Genuine, correct facts.

God help us if we lived in a world where everyone just lived on their prejudices and refused to believe in objective truth.

[scawsby steve]

SS.

All of those are verified facts

See, there ARE things out there in the world that are objectively true. Facts. Genuine, correct facts.

God help us if we lived in a world where everyone just lived on their prejudices and refused to believe in objective truth.

How do you know that those facts are verified, objectively true, genuine, and correct?

Is it me being stubborn, or you being naive?

[Herbert Anchovy]

Stupid facts and figures...

Dear God up above.

I'm not dealing with shite like facts! I've got my own prejudices to tell ME what's happening.

I can't believe that someone with a mind as brilliant as your's doesn't trust it above those who are quoting facts that could come from anywhere.

I'll bet that most of those who collated those facts that Herbert quoted are too young to even remember the 60s, whereas I was there.

How many times have you had a completely different take on a Rovers match than what the DFP has reported?

SS, i think that the primary point of the report was to project how people’s perceptions of a particular time period is heavily influenced by their own circumstance. Hence, people view the decade in which they were in their 20’s as ‘the best’. It was also to show that, when presented with hard facts and evidence, people are still extremely reluctant to change their view. Human nature I’d guess. Maybe the 1960’s were great for you. However that doesn’t disguise the fact that statistical assessment tells us we are now a richer, more peaceful and more tolerant society.

[Bentley Bullet]

Around 1965, there was a murder in Balby. It was the TV news headline for a week. Nowadays a murder in Doncaster might not even hit the front page of the Doncaster Free Press.

That is a fact that goes against statistics.

[scawsby steve]

Stupid facts and figures...

Dear God up above.

I'm not dealing with shite like facts! I've got my own prejudices to tell ME what's happening.

I can't believe that someone with a mind as brilliant as your's doesn't trust it above those who are quoting facts that could come from anywhere.

I'll bet that most of those who collated those facts that Herbert quoted are too young to even remember the 60s, whereas I was there.

How many times have you had a completely different take on a Rovers match than what the DFP has reported?

SS, i think that the primary point of the report was to project how people’s perceptions of a particular time period is heavily influenced by their own circumstance. Hence, people view the decade in which they were in their 20’s as ‘the best’. It was also to show that, when presented with hard facts and evidence, people are still extremely reluctant to change their view. Human nature I’d guess. Maybe the 1960’s were great for you. However that doesn’t disguise the fact that statistical assessment tells us we are now a richer, more peaceful and more tolerant society.

Richer? Then how come there are foodbanks and people sleeping in doorways? There was none of that in the 60s.

More peaceful? Have a walk round the town centre on a Friday or Saturday night.

More tolerant? Have you seen the attitude of Remainers over the last 3 years?

[scawsby steve]

Around 1965, there was a murder in Balby. It was the TV news headline for a week. Nowadays a murder in Doncaster might not even hit the front page of the Doncaster Free Press.

That is a fact that goes against statistics.

Right on BB. The same thing happened after the murder behind the Adam and Eve in 1967. Never out of the news all week; such was the rarity of murders in those days compared with now.

[BillyStubbsTears]

SS.

Yes we are richer than we were 50 years ago. Miles richer. Allowing for inflation, our GDP is about 2.5 times what it was in 1970.

So why are there food banks and homeless? Because for the last 40 years, since Thatcher's time, we've allowed the very richest to cream off almost all of that growth. And by crushing the unions, we've ended up with poverty wages for the very poorest workers that were never allowed in 1970.

Talking to you is utterly depressing. You SEE the problems. And you utterly refuse to consider voting for the one party that wants to change society BACK to the sort of equality we had in 1970. But with the wealth we have in 2020!

Do you really, honestly think Farage gives a f**k about any of that? Really? Honestly?

[BillyStubbsTears]

Go on lads. Go on.

What was the last murder in Donny that didn't make the headlines?

Go on. At your leisure.

[drfchound]

If it didn’t make the headlines then we probably wouldn’t know about it,  would we?

[BillyStubbsTears]

Sweet f**king Jesus, BB is being cloned.

[Bentley Bullet]

I don't know. It probably didn't make the headlines. I'll try and find one.

[drfchound]

But I am right aren’t I.