The Rochdale goal

[NewDonny]

Cov, sunderland and now today.   Playing running and unleashing a grass cutter.   


All should have been challenged but each time we stood off


Concerninganner for Seny to concede to.


We were awful today.   I have been about times and still to witness a good display

Maybe you need to get to a few more games because there have been plenty of good performances this season.

[mattco]

Why didn't Moore make changes to midfield earlier? It was obvious were being over run there and yet Copps wasn't brought on and Sheaf came on much too late,

[drfchound]

You aren’t allowed to question decisions by the manager.

[ravenrover]

Gomes just could not chase the scorer back which is why he had the clear run at the defence

[dickos1]

Someone even suggested this morning that gomes has been our best player over the last 6 weeks.
Baffling

[drfc1951]

If you do not have a settle team this will always happen (change for the sake of change does not work)

If we stuck to the side that played Tranmere, you would have complained about Cameron John playing over Reece James.

[IDM]

Someone even suggested this morning that gomes has been our best player over the last 6 weeks.
Baffling

Why is that baffling? If he was, he was..

Doesn’t necessarily mean he’s automatically going g to be great next game.

Too many below par today..

[dickos1]

Someone even suggested this morning that gomes has been our best player over the last 6 weeks.
Baffling

Why is that baffling? If he was, he was..

Doesn’t necessarily mean he’s automatically going g to be great next game.

Too many below par today..

It’s opinions, that opinion is baffling to me. Cause i don’t think he’s been anywhere near our best player over the last 6 weeks.
James,
Dieng
Wright
Anderson
Sadlier
All better for me

[Campsall rover]

Someone even suggested this morning that gomes has been our best player over the last 6 weeks.
Baffling

Why is that baffling? If he was, he was..

Doesn’t necessarily mean he’s automatically going g to be great next game.

Too many below par today..

It’s opinions, that opinion is baffling to me. Cause i don’t think he’s been anywhere near our best player over the last 6 weeks.
James,
Dieng
Wright
Anderson
Sadlier
All better for me

Agree 100%

[Donnywolf]

Reminded me of Coventry goal

Running at our defence - kept going - thinks let me let fly - and Keeper maybe should have saved them

Dieng (no criticism) knows how to come out and does so effectively and I am sure he will start taking up a more forward position when this happens again to "narrow the angle"

[donnievic]

Reminded me of Coventry goal

Running at our defence - kept going - thinks let me let fly - and Keeper maybe should have saved them

Dieng (no criticism) knows how to come out and does so effectively and I am sure he will start taking up a more forward position when this happens again to "narrow the angle"

depends how you want to look at it,if he goes closer to his line he has more of a reaction time as it wasn’t right in the corner,sumtimes you can’t win what you decide is right

[Padge_DRFC]

Someone even suggested this morning that gomes has been our best player over the last 6 weeks.
Baffling

I think he was that shocking at the start of the season and has improved this blinds people's judgement.

[BillyStubbsTears]

There's plenty on here delighting in sticking the boot into Gomes and blaming him for the goal yesterday.

I thought he played poorly yesterday, but some of the criticism is ridiculous, especially for the goal.

I've just watched the iFollow footage and looked at the run up to that goal. In the previous 80 seconds, Gomes:

1) Won the ball in our half, surged forward and played an excellent ball down the inside right channel to Sadlier, resulting in a throw in for us near the corner flag.

2) Ran up to the right corner to receive the throw in from Sadlier, and lay it back to him. Sadlier miscontrolled the return and lost possession.

3) Sprinted back to the edge of our box to drop into a defensive midfield holding position as Rochdale broke, getting ahead of the ball as he did so.

4) Sprinted along the outside right position to close down a defender on the edge of the Rochdale box as they were pegged back.

After that last one, he WAS blowing out if his arse and I'm not surprised. He'd just made 3 full on, pitch-long sprints in the previous 65 seconds, the last one to close down a player in a position you'd have expected Sadlier to be doing the work. When Rochdale then broke, no-one, not Sadlier, not Whiteman, not Ramsay, had slotted into the position that Gomes had just run from to close down the Rochdale left back. So there was a wide open gap for Mathison to run into and Homes was never going to catch him.

Ease to criticise when you only look at the final 5 seconds before the ball hits the back of the net.

But I really do wonder why our fans are so eager to stick the boot into our own players.

[dickos1]

Their player who scored picked the ball up around the halfway line and him and Gomes were level, a few seconds later their players scores and he’s 15-20 yards ahead of gomes.
So he’s increased this distance while also running with the ball,
Gomes was strolling back

[BillyStubbsTears]

Dickos.

1) You're factually wrong. Rathbone was fully two yards ahead of Gomes when he picked up the ball. They weren't level.

2) You're giving a prime example of the point I've just made about looking at only the previous 5 seconds before the ball hits the net. As I pointed out above, Gomes had just made 3 full-on, long-distance sprints in the previous 60 seconds, include one immediately before, which should have been Sadlier's responsibility. He'd been putting in those forward and backward runs all game and yes, he was out on his feet when Rochdale broke. But he had fair reason to expect one of Sadlier, Whiteman and Ramsay to be covering the hole he'd left by chasing down the Rochdale left back.

You go ahead and pick and choose the facts that you want to concentrate on to slag off a Rovers player if you wish. Odd behaviour, but it takes all sorts.

[dickos1]

Billy
When Rochdale received the ball back those two players were level, from then on the Rochdale players just increased his distance from Gomes as he jogged back.

[dickos1]

These are the screenshots

[BillyStubbsTears]

I misread what you posted before. I thought you meant when Rathbone received the ball.

So yes, Gomes was level with Rathbone in that frame. (Actually, if we're being pedantic, he's not level, Gomes is a good half a yard behind - look at the feet positions- and 3-4 yards laterally away from Rathbone, but I'll give you that one.)

 But note. That WASN'T when Rochdale won the ball back. They'd had it for the previous 40 seconds, after Sadlier lost possession in the right corner, and during that time, Gomes had sprinted the length of the pitch to get back into defence, then sprinted forward to close down the full back.

And you're ignore that central point I've been making. The lad had just run further and harder than anyone on the pitch in the previous 60 seconds (having already made a break out if defence and sprinted into the right corner before Sadlier lost the ball).

Rathbone was NOT Gomes's responsibility. He had every right to expect a colleague to do some covering. Like Sadlier perhaps, given that Gomes had just done Sadlier's job of chasing down the full-back. But they didn't. And you choose to criticise Gomes.

As I said, you are focussing on that five seconds because it suits the point that you are wanting to make.

[NewDonny]

There's plenty on here delighting in sticking the boot into Gomes and blaming him for the goal yesterday.

I thought he played poorly yesterday, but some of the criticism is ridiculous, especially for the goal.

I've just watched the iFollow footage and looked at the run up to that goal. In the previous 80 seconds, Gomes:

1) Won the ball in our half, surged forward and played an excellent ball down the inside right channel to Sadlier, resulting in a throw in for us near the corner flag.

2) Ran up to the right corner to receive the throw in from Sadlier, and lay it back to him. Sadlier miscontrolled the return and lost possession.

3) Sprinted back to the edge of our box to drop into a defensive midfield holding position as Rochdale broke, getting ahead of the ball as he did so.

4) Sprinted along the outside right position to close down a defender on the edge of the Rochdale box as they were pegged back.

After that last one, he WAS blowing out if his arse and I'm not surprised. He'd just made 3 full on, pitch-long sprints in the previous 65 seconds, the last one to close down a player in a position you'd have expected Sadlier to be doing the work. When Rochdale then broke, no-one, not Sadlier, not Whiteman, not Ramsay, had slotted into the position that Gomes had just run from to close down the Rochdale left back. So there was a wide open gap for Mathison to run into and Homes was never going to catch him.

Ease to criticise when you only look at the final 5 seconds before the ball hits the back of the net.

Gomes has improved 200% on the player we saw at the beginning of the season, but as for being our best player this last 6 game as someone has suggested, sorry but don't agree. Anderson is streets ahead of anyone and has been Mr consistent all season in that regard. I don't normally comment negatively on a players performance on here, but Gomes didn't seem to know what was expected of him yesterday and it showed in his positioning, often sitting far too deep and way off his player.

You say Gomes was knackered after making 3 full on sprints just before their goal yesterday like that was exceptional. That's what he should be doing, the position he was playing demanded he ran from box to box for the whole game. You and others on here criticise Sadlier when he doesn't track back yet he makes those sprints, often at a very high intensity all game long long down the flank and then has to sprint to get back yo get in to defend when play breaks down, he's often doing that and not seeing the ball atall because we don't find him, yet you don't ever forgive him if he has to take a breather lol.

Gomes doesn't make things easy for himself at times, he too often holds onto the ball for far too long and for some reason won't release and give that simple 2-3 yard pass, preferring instead to turn and make the 10 - 20 yard pass instead and that when he either loses it or passes it straight out of play, he needs to raise his head up, if you watch a player like Sadlier or Whiteman or Copps, like all good players are taught, they have a picture in their mind of where everyone is, they have decided on the pass they are going to make before the receive the ball, Gomes doesn't, he receives it, takes a touch or two and then thinks about finding a player.

I thought Gomes was very good at Sunderland, probably our best player in that game along with Anderson and Wright, Gomes was good again at Tranmere but in between that was very average at Fleetwood Town, ironically I though our best player at Fleetwood was Ennis, he too also had a good game against Tranmere but got dropped for Taylor to come back in yesterday which was a surprise to me tbh.

If you want to dig players out for their performances yesterday, then I feel Cole has to be one of the first as I though he looked slow and lazy, just hope that was just an off day for him and that there is more to come from him. Our skipper Whiteman had an off day yesterday as well, on his day his passing can be superb, opfetn cutting the opposition in half with his incisive passes but I am sure he himself will be the first to admit that he was way off his game yesterday.

[BillyStubbsTears]

New Donny.

Where have I ever criticised Sadlier for not tracking back?

It IS a fact though that in the 60 seconds prior to that goal, Gomes had just done twice the running that Sadlier had done, and it wouldn't have been ridiculous for Gomes to expect some cover when a player already ahead of him made a forward break.

Fair?

By the way, this sensitivity you have to any perceived slight on Sadlier is getting very odd. My take is that the lad is a superb player and often a joy to watch. But he's not untouchable.

[NewDonny]

I have now just seen your additional posts BST and your wrong.

Gomes is expected to make those runs, all game long, play had broken down and he had a full 20-30 seconds to get back in and defend with Rochdale on the ball on the edge of their own 18 Yard box, Sadlier was already back in covering his LB, so what is he supposed to do, leave his man and come inside to attack the player on the ball because Gomes is taking a breather lol.

in the footage that I am watching Gomes shuts down their initial attempt to play down the left, then if you watch his body language he switched off and his head goes down and he then realises they have played it forward again and into a more central Rochdale player who is able to turn and play and they are away with Gomes now chasing his player having switched of and losing concentration - nothing to do with needing a breather, Gomes switched off and momentarily lost concentration.

[BillyStubbsTears]

New Donny.

1) No player is expected to make sprint after sprint after sprint. It's simply not physically possible for anyone to keep doing that without some recuperation.

2) You're doing the same thing as Dickos. You're ignoring the fact that, at the time you say Gomes "Switched off" he'd just completed three long, hard sprints in the previous 60 seconds. As I keep on pointing out, he was putting in a major shift for his colleagues and he had a right to be expecting someone to be doing a job of covering the defensive midfield position he'd just vacated to spring and close down the left-back position.

3) You're right about about Sadlier covering the left back in that period of play. I thought Gomes had pushed up against Norrington-Davies, the left back, but watching it again on higher definition, it was actually Morley who had dropped into the left-back position and who Gomes had pushed back. Sadlier, as you say, was covering the left back 15 yards inside our half. Gomes had actually closed down Norrington Davies just inside our halfand forced him to play the ball back at 79:44 game time. When the ball was played out to the left back position and Gomes sprinted up to close that player down, I'd assumed the player he closed down was Norrington-Davies, but it's clearly Morley when you watch carefully. The reason I'd suggested that Sadlier could have stepped inside to cover was that I assumed Halliday was picking up Morley and Gomes was closing down Norrington-Davies but I was wrong. Accepted.

4) The key mistake was actually by Ramsay I think, on re-watching. He'd been tracking Rathbone for the previous 15 seconds, and followed him in as Rathbone dropped deep. But he then veered off to close down McShane as the ball was played across the back line. But Ennis was already covering McShane and Ramsay veering off left Rathbone unmarked and ahead of Gomes who was blowing. Youthful enthusiasm and naivety.

The point being as Gomes put in the hard yards closing Rochdale down in their left wing/left back position, no-one took the responsibility to pick up players behind him. So both Henderson and Rathbone were able to find the space to hurt us.

[dickos1]

I misread what you posted before. I thought you meant when Rathbone received the ball.

So yes, Gomes was level with Rathbone in that frame. (Actually, if we're being pedantic, he's not level, Gomes is a good half a yard behind - look at the feet positions- and 3-4 yards laterally away from Rathbone, but I'll give you that one.)

 But note. That WASN'T when Rochdale won the ball back. They'd had it for the previous 40 seconds, after Sadlier lost possession in the right corner, and during that time, Gomes had sprinted the length of the pitch to get back into defence, then sprinted forward to close down the full back.

And you're ignore that central point I've been making. The lad had just run further and harder than anyone on the pitch in the previous 60 seconds (having already made a break out if defence and sprinted into the right corner before Sadlier lost the ball).

Rathbone was NOT Gomes's responsibility. He had every right to expect a colleague to do some covering. Like Sadlier perhaps, given that Gomes had just done Sadlier's job of chasing down the full-back. But they didn't. And you choose to criticise Gomes.

As I said, you are focussing on that five seconds because it suits the point that you are wanting to make.

Billy I’m not ignoring that fact at all im simply disagreeing, I played a long time at a decent level in central midfield and you can’t use that excuse in that position.
Even if you’re about to be sick you can’t let your man run off you that easily and score a goal like that.
It’s his man he should be doing all he can to get back, not just meandering back like he did.
If he can’t get back when he’s done a forward run then he should just sit in for 5 mins not get his rest in the oppositions half

[BillyStubbsTears]

By the way. I've just finished re-watching the game on iFollow.

Rochdale changed their formation down their left at half time. Norrignton-Davies who is ostensibly a left back, actually played left-wing, and Morley who is ostensibly a wide midfielder, was playing in the left-back slot.

So my original description of what had happened in the immediate period before their goal was correct. Gomes pished back the left-back, 50 yards ahead of Sadlier. Halliday was in position to cover the left-winger, Norrington Daies and no-one moved into the hole behind Gomes into which Henderson ran to pick up the forward ball. Sadlier, having not made the run forward to press down the full-back probably should have been taking up that slot rather than staying tight to the touchline 15 yards inside our half. There was no need for him to be there, as Halliday could have perfectly well covered Norrington-Davies in the left-wing position. Instead, Halliday was drawn in to rushing forward to intercept Henderson, and didn't make it.

I'm not having a major dig at any of those players. Just setting a bit of context for those who have decided it was all Gomes's fault.

[NewDonny]

By the way. I've just finished re-watching the game on iFollow.

Rochdale changed their formation down their left at half time. Norrignton-Davies who is ostensibly a left back, actually played left-wing, and Morley who is ostensibly a wide midfielder, was playing in the left-back slot.

So my original description of what had happened in the immediate period before their goal was correct. Gomes pished back the left-back, 50 yards ahead of Sadlier. Halliday was in position to cover the left-winger, Norrington Daies and no-one moved into the hole behind Gomes into which Henderson ran to pick up the forward ball. Sadlier, having not made the run forward to press down the full-back probably should have been taking up that slot rather than staying tight to the touchline 15 yards inside our half. There was no need for him to be there, as Halliday could have perfectly well covered Norrington-Davies in the left-wing position. Instead, Halliday was drawn in to rushing forward to intercept Henderson, and didn't make it.

I'm not having a major dig at any of those players. Just setting a bit of context for those who have decided it was all Gomes's fault.

No idea what you are looking at, I have re-run the whole game to their goal.

Halliday had moved across and was picking up a player more centrally which is why Sadlier had, had to drop off and pick up their wide player out on their left. Then as they were attacking, Halliday seems a little late to react quick enough and doesn't go with his who had dropped back deeper to play the one two with the goal scorer, watch it and you will see that Halliday was marking that player all along and was just too slow to react.

Anyway, Gomes is equally slow to react, thinking his job was done and he nodded off and then couldn't recover, its there on video for all to see.

[BillyStubbsTears]

New Donny.

I hate being a pedant, but there are several things wrong with that.

The last time you see Sadlier and Halliday before the goal is at 79:43, fully 25 seconds before Rochdale break forwards. Sadlier wasn't marking Norrington-Davies at that point. He was marking Morley. Morley played the ball back to Norrington-Davies on the halfway line, who played it further back/ Meanwhile, Morley had run back deep into his own half and was pressed by Gomes who sprinted with him while Sadlier held position.

I agree that Halliday had been pulled inside to mark Henderson at 79:43. That wasn't ideal. it left a centre-half unoccupied and no-one free to fill the gap that Gomes had left by applying the press. The defensive line had 25 seconds to re-arrange this, and didn't do so. The only major movement was Ramsay chasing Rathbone, then leaving him free when he (Ramsay) instead followed the ball as it was played to O'Connell (not McShane as I said earlier).

That lack of re-organisation meant that there was a big hole for Henderson to run into, and lay the ball off to Rathbone. It's easy to criticise from the comfort of looking at a video screen, but that's the truth of the matter. Yes, I agree, Gomes was slow to get back, but I've set out the context of the runs that he'd just made in the previous 60mseconds, and there are clearly other errors in the defensive organisation in the whole move which contributed to the goal. Simply focussing on Gomes's shortcoming as has been done a lot on here, is rather one-eyed.

ironically, the commentators had only just noted how excellent Rovers' defensive discipline was, just as it fell apart.

[NewDonny]

New Donny.

I hate being a pedant, but there are several things wrong with that.

The last time you see Sadlier and Halliday before the goal is at 79:43, fully 25 seconds before Rochdale break forwards. Sadlier wasn't marking Norrington-Davies at that point. He was marking Morley. Morley played the ball back to Norrington-Davies on the halfway line, who played it further back/ Meanwhile, Morley had run back deep into his own half and was pressed by Gomes who sprinted with him while Sadlier held position.

I agree that Halliday had been pulled inside to mark Henderson at 79:43. That wasn't ideal. it left a centre-half unoccupied and no-one free to fill the gap that Gomes had left by applying the press. The defensive line had 25 seconds to re-arrange this, and didn't do so. The only major movement was Ramsay chasing Rathbone, then leaving him free when he (Ramsay) instead followed the ball as it was played to O'Connell (not McShane as I said earlier).

That lack of re-organisation meant that there was a big hole for Henderson to run into, and lay the ball off to Rathbone. It's easy to criticise from the comfort of looking at a video screen, but that's the truth of the matter. Yes, I agree, Gomes was slow to get back, but I've set out the context of the runs that he'd just made in the previous 60mseconds, and there are clearly other errors in the defensive organisation in the whole move which contributed to the goal. Simply focussing on Gomes's shortcoming as has been done a lot on here, is rather one-eyed.

ironically, the commentators had only just noted how excellent Rovers' defensive discipline was, just as it fell apart.

BST, you can say what you like but Halliday being slow to react to keep the man he was marking close and in check and Gomes switching off (who by the way seemed fine to me and far from out of breath and needing a breather) they were able to launch an attack straight through our midfield and score. Gomes lost his man as did Halliday and thats what's gave them the scoring opportunity, end of!

[BillyStubbsTears]

ND.

There was a string of errors.

1) The defensive line not re-organising in the time between Rochdale being pushed back into their half and the attack starting.

2) The young lad Ramsay naively leaving his man and chasing down the ball.

3) Aye, Gomes not sprinting back, having just covered the thick end of 200 yards at a sprint in the previous minute.

4) Halliday misreading the situation.

5) Anderson moving out left to cover a player that James should have had comfortably marked, thus leaving a yawning gap for Rathbone to surge into.


Football eh? Complicated. Some folk want to reduce it to one of our players being shit or uninterested.

[Colin C No.3]

Maybe Whiteman needs someone pushing him for a starting place !
And Anderson should be the captain in my opinion.....a real leader

Isn't the captain only someone who has a chat with the ref? Surely you want leaders all over the pitch?

We don’t though......but I trust Anderson to run through a wall not cower behind it....lol

You clearly haven’t watched Ben Whiteman in his ‘captains role’.

Not only does he always show himself to receive a pass, he’s a player who reads the game well. They call it having the ability to see the whole picture, not your forte as we know.

Ben has the drive & determination, even when he’s ‘off his game’ to always be looking for the best outlet. One minute he’ll be receiving the ball from Dieng, the next he’ll pop up on the edge of the opponents box. That’s not something you do by ‘cowering behind a wall’.

I’ve watched him admonish, cajole & applaud his team mates in equal measure.

He reminds me a lot of Jordan Henderson.

[Donnywolf]

  Bottom 2 lines especially!