Let's talk about the Bolton Wanderers game

[selby]

  Well we definitely will not be playing anywhere near the side Bolton were fielding earlier in the season. A club that have cocked a snook to us  all season and still continue to, as regards to moneys owed, and have and still are pulling the tail of the FA and making them look a fool.
  What team we will field only Darren Moore knows, and Bolton will be up for this game on the field and the supporters also, so I am expecting us to have to play much better than we did today.
   Coppinger and Sheaf would be starters for meto my mind they are better than Ramsey and Gomes  and are good players to turn to as substitutes, not to dominate a game and force it.
    Conditions look like they could play a part in the game, so experience could make a contribution also.
   What team would you pick?
   Are you going to the game?
   Are you like me disappointed at the attitude Bolton, an old respected club have shown to our club, and have sunk to being no better than a part time set of spivs?
  Lots hang on the result of this game for us, but I will take as much pleasure if we win knowing we will have done as much as we can in their demise this season.
  Lots to discuss about this game, please have your say.

[drfchound]

After the way Bolton have conducted themselves all season I really want us to humiliate them with a big win.
I’m not sure that we will be able to achieve that though and in truth any kind of win is required to keep our hope of a top six place alive.
A victory will give us four points from the six we craved from the two home games this week and I suppose that wouldn’t  be too bad really.
For me, Copps, Sheaf and Fejiri have to start the game in place of Gomes, Ramsey and Cole.

[scawsby steve]

Bolton only lost in the last minute today away to Coventry. They will be fired up against us, especially Ali Crawford, and will probably bring 2 to 3 thousand fans with them.

I hate to say this, but unless there is a huge improvement on today's performance, we could suffer the embarrassment of a defeat against them.

We'd never hear the last of it from their fans.

[Wiltshire Exile]

Bolton only lost in the last minute today away to Coventry. They will be fired up against us, especially Ali Crawford, and will probably bring 2 to 3 thousand fans with them.

I hate to say this, but unless there is a huge improvement on today's performance, we could suffer the embarrassment of a defeat against them.

We'd never hear the last of it from their fans.

...and from a large number of ours, too, I would imagine!

[BigH]

Bolton only lost in the last minute today away to Coventry. They will be fired up against us, especially Ali Crawford, and will probably bring 2 to 3 thousand fans with them.

I hate to say this, but unless there is a huge improvement on today's performance, we could suffer the embarrassment of a defeat against them.

We'd never hear the last of it from their fans.

Is Crawford fit again?

[Metalmicky]

They are currently 18 points from safety and have only 17 games to bridge that gap.  We can essentially stick another nail in their proverbial coffin by beating them on Tuesday.  I hope (and expect) that DM will have the players wound up and ready - knowing what this means to the supporters...

[scawsby steve]

Bolton only lost in the last minute today away to Coventry. They will be fired up against us, especially Ali Crawford, and will probably bring 2 to 3 thousand fans with them.

I hate to say this, but unless there is a huge improvement on today's performance, we could suffer the embarrassment of a defeat against them.

We'd never hear the last of it from their fans.

Is Crawford fit again?

I didn't know he was injured mate. If he is, I think that will help us; especially with the way our midfield went missing today.

[drfchound]

Ali didn’t feature in their squad today.

[sha66y]

Got a big bad feeling about this one , and I know I’m not alone in this..
Yes we can big it up and shake our fists on here at that terrible team Bolton.... but they are turning up with 11 players on the park who desire to beat the odds and stay up...

If we can match that desire to get in the play offs,
we may edge it 2-1 ,
however that big bad feeling keeps saying we are gonna get thumped 3 nil..

I guess it depends on who DM thinks has the right skills and mindset for this one,

it feels personal now,

the hostility from their fans and the physical nature of their team will either impose its will on us.....or drive us on to bring our best game !

[NewDonny]

Ali didn’t feature in their squad today.

He's back running in training, still a while off returning from injury.

[selby]

   We now have a much stronger squad, no argument the board and manager have slowly worked together to improve our first team player strength, and have done it well.
  The problem now is that we still have a core of players in certain, mainly defence and midfield who are slightly better individually, and combine better as a unit, to my mind bringing in players for Coppinger, Sheaf and James was not what was required, better strikers were the requirement, which to the club's credit they have tried to address.
  The more full games that Gomes, Ramsey, and John if he plays at left back, the more their combined weakness will be exposed, and the less likely we are to go on the required run of good results to obtain a  play off position.
   I referred to it a few weeks ago as muddying the waters, a common thing in management, others call it tinkering Oxford have done the same thing, Portsmouth went through it early in the season. Now teams hide behind the modern term rotation.
  We need our best players on the field of play from now until the end of the season to stand any chance of a play off place as much as possible in my opinion, and should leave rotation to others whenever possible.
   

[Campsall rover]

Oxford have brought in 3/4 new players and it’s all gone pear shaped.

Too much tinkering is dangerous. As you say Brian we needed a new front man.
We have 2 new ones so they can be rotated or one used as a sub as required in a game.
Ramsey is a good back up in midfield.
We need Whiteman, Sheaf and Copps on the pitch as much as possible as they are our best middle 3 imo.
Sheaf is so underestimated, his value to the function of our team is huge.
Just like to see Whiteman make a few more runs supporting our front men when he has Sheaf as his insurance behind him.
Whiteman really should be scoring 7/8 goals a season.

[scawsby steve]

I've just been on their forums, and apparently the ticket sales aren't going particularly well. On Thursday they'd only sold just over 300. It seems I was maybe way off in my prediction of 2 to 3 thousand.

 

[Bristol Red Rover]

I've just been on their forums, and apparently the ticket sales aren't going particularly well. On Thursday they'd only sold just over 300. It seems I was maybe way off in my prediction of 2 to 3 thousand.

 

A fair amount of sleet forecast over the West and Central Penines for Tues pm all the way through the night, plus near freezing temps. That could be a factor.

[mushRTID]

I've just been on their forums, and apparently the ticket sales aren't going particularly well. On Thursday they'd only sold just over 300. It seems I was maybe way off in my prediction of 2 to 3 thousand.

 

I imagine they will leave it until as late as possible to see if their team can be arsed to turn up!

[Frankie Rennie]

I’m amazed at the continued vitriol towards Bolton on here. The game to us on Tuesday is meaningless, we’ve already accepted we’re going down and now our only interest is in building a squad good enough to come straight back up again next season. We are well on the way to doing that now with several of our young players living up to first team ability whilst our new signings are also bedding in. We are still missing a few senior players through injury, including Ali Crawford but they should be back soon. I don’t think it will be a walk over for you on Tuesday but if you play well you should still be good enough to take the points. I’m obviously hoping you don’t but let’s be honest, if you can’t beat us then you aren’t good enough to get promoted. What I can tell you is that to Wanderers fans this is just another game and we have much more important things to worry about than Doncaster Rovers feelings. I will be there on Tuesday anyway.

[BillyStubbsTears]

I've just been on their forums, and apparently the ticket sales aren't going particularly well. On Thursday they'd only sold just over 300. It seems I was maybe way off in my prediction of 2 to 3 thousand.

 

A fair amount of sleet forecast over the West and Central Penines for Tues pm all the way through the night, plus near freezing temps. That could be a factor.

.

What are you suggesting? That they are nesh jessies as well as entitled cheats?

[dknward2]

If this weather continues maybe the game will get postponed

[Filo]

I’m amazed at the continued vitriol towards Bolton on here. The game to us on Tuesday is meaningless, we’ve already accepted we’re going down and now our only interest is in building a squad good enough to come straight back up again next season. We are well on the way to doing that now with several of our young players living up to first team ability whilst our new signings are also bedding in. We are still missing a few senior players through injury, including Ali Crawford but they should be back soon. I don’t think it will be a walk over for you on Tuesday but if you play well you should still be good enough to take the points. I’m obviously hoping you don’t but let’s be honest, if you can’t beat us then you aren’t good enough to get promoted. What I can tell you is that to Wanderers fans this is just another game and we have much more important things to worry about than Doncaster Rovers feelings. I will be there on Tuesday anyway.

I trust those same young players did n’t play Saturday or are not playing tomorrow night, two games in quick succession is not good for your young players, remember?

[Donnywolf]

I’m amazed at the continued vitriol towards Bolton on here. The game to us on Tuesday is meaningless, we’ve already accepted we’re going down and now our only interest is in building a squad good enough to come straight back up again next season. We are well on the way to doing that now with several of our young players living up to first team ability whilst our new signings are also bedding in. We are still missing a few senior players through injury, including Ali Crawford but they should be back soon. I don’t think it will be a walk over for you on Tuesday but if you play well you should still be good enough to take the points. I’m obviously hoping you don’t but let’s be honest, if you can’t beat us then you aren’t good enough to get promoted. What I can tell you is that to Wanderers fans this is just another game and we have much more important things to worry about than Doncaster Rovers feelings. I will be there on Tuesday anyway.

I try to be objective and I think here the vitriol has gradually ramped up - though to be fair it started high anyway

Bolton fans as those of many Clubs will have been inconvenienced with changes to kick off times - whether home or away - you will have booked Tickets for Trains and / or Hotels long in advance. Then along come Sky and change the Kick off and suddenly the Tickets for Train Buses etc are no longer a bargain price and the day off work you negotiated (or put a sickie in for) is wasted too

However in the case of Sky the game goes ahead and you buy replacement Tickets and rebook a Hotel although there are financial iplications all round but when you have made all arrangements as above and our Supporters Club have arranged Coaches (lots of them - maybe with non returnable deposits) well that is a difference that anyone could see surely ? We were impacted as Fans and as a Club at a minutes notice and most will never recoup what they lost

Next we had already lost the Bury fixture - and had then to miss another early Season fixture because the Administrators of the Club it appeared to me pulled the BWFC v DRFC fixture for economic reasons using the "kids are burnt out" excuse as a cover.

It was maybe not calculated to rile another Team that they were facing as much as it did but as BW had been getting hammered by 5 goals in some games and we were next in line lots of people saw it as an easy Three Points though it is always dangerous and foolish to think that as the same BW Team drew 0-0 with Coventry and as we saw on Saturday there are no guaranteed 3 Points ever

There are implications beyond that of course. I tend NOT to think that a single Penalty during a Season or one bad refereeing decision has cost us promotion or relegated us BUT lots of others do and if we allow ourselves to believe that we would have taken 3 Points at Bolton that game against their burnt out kids - but when the fixture is finally played we will face a rebuilt Team and may get less than 3 points and its costs us (say) a Play off place is there any wonder we were and in some cases are still miffed or more than miffed ?

Then factor in the sheer incompetence (possibly inconsistency) of the EFL who were powerless to stop the unilateral cancelling of the Game in the first place. I rememeber Teams in the past asking for cancellations as they had X number of Players down with bugs and / or injured and the EFL would rule one way or another on whether the fixture could be "postponed"

As I understand this episode the game was simply called off by BW or their aministrators and it was at that stage the EFL or whoever is supposed to be "in charge" should have stepped in straight away and punished BW for failing to fulfil a Fixture and (I would say this whichever Team BW were due to play) tell BW that this was not acceptable to the Competition  and the sanctions are thus :

These are examples of my choosing just for the purposes of this reply NOT what I necessarily think they ought to have been

1) Fine of £30000
2) Award of 3 Points to your opponents in the Game you did not play
3) Further Points deduction of 6 on Season 19/20

Note to BW (or any other Clubs going forward) you may cancel any further Games you choose this Season and the penalties above will be applied each time .

EVEN if the EFL HAD been decisive and say ONLY awarded 3 Points to DRFC immediately and said any further games BW (or other Teams) cancel will  automatically lead to their prospective opponents being awarded 3 Points then that would be at least a decision they could stand behind

Instead they pussyfooted about instead of being decisive and at least then having a fall back position, BUT they dallied - made no attempt to do anything - thus leaving our Fans to simmer on here and elsewhere and brood at what they saw (as fans) as a total injustice.

Remember it may not be us that are affected ultimately. If and I have said its a big if we had played the original fixture and won that would have resulted in 3 Points for DRFC and no points for BWFC. However come the "replay" what if BW take 3 points or 1 Point rather than the 0 points they might have got - and those 3 Points or even 1 Point save BW but relegate a Team that has fought all Season to stay up. Would that be fair to them that events nothing  to do with them remotely should impact on them "out of the blue"

Now the EFL apparantly are appealing against the independent body they put in place because they dont think the sanctions that the Independent body imposed were "punitive enough" and so we are still in a place of "what ifs" all round again some 6 months on

I know lots of people on here may add more and more to the point reasons to answer your question(s) but unlike most I have no particular axe to grind either way. Tomorrow as you say will be just another game against just another team.

It will not be the "contentious" fixture and neither of the starting 11s will be anything like what they would have been back then. It is not BW that are wholly at fault in this mess but their Administrators have a huge culpability in what precipiated it - and certainly not their fans who are as were years ago being dragged to low places beyond their control

So I hope we win this one tomorrow BUT I still hope that ultimately the EFL will do the right thing for the future of the game and show that actions that would not be tolerated in a local Sunday League certainly have no place in their Competitions - and yes - eventually give DRFC the 3 Points. The money has long gone but the sense of injustice for us and potentially others rumbles on

[Metalmicky]

If this weather continues maybe the game will get postponed

We could postpone it late in the day and let Bolton know via social media..................... oh wait 

[Frankie Rennie]

I’m amazed at the continued vitriol towards Bolton on here. The game to us on Tuesday is meaningless, we’ve already accepted we’re going down and now our only interest is in building a squad good enough to come straight back up again next season. We are well on the way to doing that now with several of our young players living up to first team ability whilst our new signings are also bedding in. We are still missing a few senior players through injury, including Ali Crawford but they should be back soon. I don’t think it will be a walk over for you on Tuesday but if you play well you should still be good enough to take the points. I’m obviously hoping you don’t but let’s be honest, if you can’t beat us then you aren’t good enough to get promoted. What I can tell you is that to Wanderers fans this is just another game and we have much more important things to worry about than Doncaster Rovers feelings. I will be there on Tuesday anyway.

I try to be objective and I think here the vitriol has gradually ramped up - though to be fair it started high anyway

Bolton fans as those of many Clubs will have been inconvenienced with changes to kick off times - whether home or away - you will have booked Tickets for Trains and / or Hotels long in advance. Then along come Sky and change the Kick off and suddenly the Tickets for Train Buses etc are no longer a bargain price and the day off work you negotiated (or put a sickie in for) is wasted too

However in the case of Sky the game goes ahead and you buy replacement Tickets and rebook a Hotel although there are financial iplications all round but when you have made all arrangements as above and our Supporters Club have arranged Coaches (lots of them - maybe with non returnable deposits) well that is a difference that anyone could see surely ? We were impacted as Fans and as a Club at a minutes notice and most will never recoup what they lost

Next we had already lost the Bury fixture - and had then to miss another early Season fixture because the Administrators of the Club it appeared to me pulled the BWFC v DRFC fixture for economic reasons using the "kids are burnt out" excuse as a cover.

It was maybe not calculated to rile another Team that they were facing as much as it did but as BW had been getting hammered by 5 goals in some games and we were next in line lots of people saw it as an easy Three Points though it is always dangerous and foolish to think that as the same BW Team drew 0-0 with Coventry and as we saw on Saturday there are no guaranteed 3 Points ever

There are implications beyond that of course. I tend NOT to think that a single Penalty during a Season or one bad refereeing decision has cost us promotion or relegated us BUT lots of others do and if we allow ourselves to believe that we would have taken 3 Points at Bolton that game against their burnt out kids - but when the fixture is finally played we will face a rebuilt Team and may get less than 3 points and its costs us (say) a Play off place is there any wonder we were and in some cases are still miffed or more than miffed ?

Then factor in the sheer incompetence (possibly inconsistency) of the EFL who were powerless to stop the unilateral cancelling of the Game in the first place. I rememeber Teams in the past asking for cancellations as they had X number of Players down with bugs and / or injured and the EFL would rule one way or another on whether the fixture could be "postponed"

As I understand this episode the game was simply called off by BW or their aministrators and it was at that stage the EFL or whoever is supposed to be "in charge" should have stepped in straight away and punished BW for failing to fulfil a Fixture and (I would say this whichever Team BW were due to play) tell BW that this was not acceptable to the Competition  and the sanctions are thus :

These are examples of my choosing just for the purposes of this reply NOT what I necessarily think they ought to have been

1) Fine of £30000
2) Award of 3 Points to your opponents in the Game you did not play
3) Further Points deduction of 6 on Season 19/20

Note to BW (or any other Clubs going forward) you may cancel any further Games you choose this Season and the penalties above will be applied each time .

EVEN if the EFL HAD been decisive and say ONLY awarded 3 Points to DRFC immediately and said any further games BW (or other Teams) cancel will  automatically lead to their prospective opponents being awarded 3 Points then that would be at least a decision they could stand behind

Instead they pussyfooted about instead of being decisive and at least then having a fall back position, BUT they dallied - made no attempt to do anything - thus leaving our Fans to simmer on here and elsewhere and brood at what they saw (as fans) as a total injustice.

Remember it may not be us that are affected ultimately. If and I have said its a big if we had played the original fixture and won that would have resulted in 3 Points for DRFC and no points for BWFC. However come the "replay" what if BW take 3 points or 1 Point rather than the 0 points they might have got - and those 3 Points or even 1 Point save BW but relegate a Team that has fought all Season to stay up. Would that be fair to them that events nothing  to do with them remotely should impact on them "out of the blue"

Now the EFL apparantly are appealing against the independent body they put in place because they dont think the sanctions that the Independent body imposed were "punitive enough" and so we are still in a place of "what ifs" all round again some 6 months on

I know lots of people on here may add more and more to the point reasons to answer your question(s) but unlike most I have no particular axe to grind either way. Tomorrow as you say will be just another game against just another team.

It will not be the "contentious" fixture and neither of the starting 11s will be anything like what they would have been back then. It is not BW that are wholly at fault in this mess but their Administrators have a huge culpability in what precipiated it - and certainly not their fans who are as were years ago being dragged to low places beyond their control

So I hope we win this one tomorrow BUT I still hope that ultimately the EFL will do the right thing for the future of the game and show that actions that would not be tolerated in a local Sunday League certainly have no place in their Competitions - and yes - eventually give DRFC the 3 Points. The money has long gone but the sense of injustice for us and potentially others rumbles on

Donnywolf, I don’t disagree with much of what you say and I’ve already agreed on here several times that you should have immediately received the 3 points. I can’t though wholeheartedly agree that fans have been inconvenienced any more than we were by the Lincoln postponement at 11am on the morning of the game. At least we called it off at midday the day before the game. At the end of the day, the scores or goals we conceded is totally irrelevant because as you say we drew 0-0 with Coventry and our two worst defeats 6 and 7 were actually with our senior squad.

At the end of the day we’ve been heavily penalised by the EFL by 12 points as well as a salary cap and an inability to pay loan or transfer fees. In fact as an aside, we have still taken more points than Southend and Tranmere and conceded less goals than Southend. The game tomorrow is just another game and one you should win but if you don’t you surely can’t blame it on the cancelled game and if it affects your promotion that is down entirely to your own team.

[selby]

  Frankie, your club still owes money to other clubs they are refusing to pay.

[Bezza]

Our best results have been in night games recently, so let's just smash them.

[Colin C No.3]

Got a big bad feeling about this one , and I know I’m not alone in this..
Yes we can big it up and shake our fists on here at that terrible team Bolton.... but they are turning up with 11 players on the park who desire to beat the odds and stay up...

If we can match that desire to get in the play offs,
we may edge it 2-1 ,
however that big bad feeling keeps saying we are gonna get thumped 3 nil..

I guess it depends on who DM thinks has the right skills and mindset for this one,

it feels personal now,

the hostility from their fans and the physical nature of their team will either impose its will on us.....or drive us on to bring our best game !

‘Oh ye of little faith’.

[Donnywolf]

Frankie Rennie

The game tomorrow is just another game and one you should win but if you don’t you surely can’t blame it on the cancelled game and if it affects your promotion that is down entirely to your own team.

As I said - I personally would not blame the lack of getting 3 Points if the game had have been played (as I said in my War and Peace post) as its a long old Season and lots happens but we DO have people on here who hold a grudge against Lewis Dunk for crippling Billy Sharp in the first game of a Season and are still convinced that we were relegated at the end of that Season as a result of that

On this occasion I was not out of pocket as we pay on the Coach (es) but probably lots of individuals were and probably the Club itself (Coach / Hotels / Meals booked) and Supporters Club reserving Coaches MAY have lost out financially , and so were out of pocket and still are because the BW Administrators cancelled the game by Social Media too late.

It is unfortunate for all those affected as usual mostly the Fans of both Teams

[Frankie Rennie]

Donny, I don’t dispute people were disadvantaged and if your club feel that’s unjustified then they can always make a claim. You’re right about supporters though but then we are just considered collateral damage by all clubs these days whether it’s for TV or other postponements. I agree with you about supporters blaming one issue for promotion or relegation, some of ours still blame the “goal” against Everton, clearly a yard over the line, not given in our first ever game at the Reebok for our relegation that year when we lost out to Everton themselves by a point on the last day. You won’t change it, it’s all part of football. As for tomorrow, if you play well, win and deserve to, then good luck to you with promotion and all this will be behind you.

[Donnywolf]

I think the Club (someone will correct me) are still awaiting the appeal before lodging any claim

I would hope people are not too taxed over the game tomorrow because it is not THE game but some will be

Even if we win tomorrow I feel the whole issue will still be there until it is resolved. For me the EFL made a total mess of it but I wont repeat my post above lol

If the EFL do what they should have done in the first place then things might reach a closure and I say that not with any anti BWFC feeling nor any pro DRFC bias - its just as a fan (of football) I feel justice needs to be done even if its eventually

May see you tomorrow in the Beefeater Pub !

[DonnyBazR0ver]

The issue is done and dusted as far as we know as the appeal upheld the original decision.

[IDM]

I would hope and expect that DM would treat this no more or less than any other fixture..