Which era would you prefer to live in?

[BillyStubbsTears]

1980s?
Mostly Tory Govt. Good economic growth. Massively skewed towards the richest.

1990s?
Mostly Tory Govt. Poor economic growth but at least equally spread.

2000s? Entirely Labour Govt. Good economic growth and fairly distributed.

2010s. Mostly Tory Govt. Unmitigated f**king disaster across the board.

Somehow there's this idea that the Tories are competent with the economy and Labour are useless. Just look at that graphic.

[Ldr]

90s, just shame about the rovers

[Bentley Bullet]

Probably the 90's under Tory Blair.

[SydneyRover]

''Somehow there's this idea that the Tories are competent with the economy and Labour are useless. Just look at that graphic''

Control the media control perception, rewrite history, easy.

The Australian Labor party with help of treasury advice at the start of the GFC went out and spent huge and saved business, jobs and the economy and became one of the few western nations to survive with all that in tact and have had growth ever since.

At present we have a right wing coalition in power and an economy slowly grinding to a halt where up till this point has refused to add stimulus, mainly because it has over the years tried and has been relatively successful in gaslighting the population by saying over this time ''we are not going to make the same stimulus mistakes of the past'' and undermining labor's legacy over that period, but also painting itself into a corner.

This is petty politics at best but it allows them the same call as with the UK tories to keep trotting out and create the perception that they are the better economic managers, casual observers and the media at election times tend to reinforce this false premise.

[BillyStubbsTears]

What makes my blood boil is that, back in 2010, there were Nobel Prize winning macro-economists screaming that Austerity was absolutely the wrong thing to do and that it would lead to a decade or more of low economic growth and stagnant wages.

That was dismissed by the Tories. They said that cutting Government spending would actually make the economy thrive and all os us richer.

Well the results are in now. Up there on that chart. Who do you think was right?

[wilts rover]

What you also need to remember is that the Tory & Tory/Lib Dem govs of the 2010's said that they needed an austerity programme because of the high national debt that could not be left to future generations.

Due to this exemplary programme of economic management the national debt is now nearly double what it was in 2010.

https://fullfact.org/economy/public-debt/

[Ldr]

I thought the promise was the deficit to be cut?

[wilts rover]

There were two promises (in 2010) Ldr

- the deficit to be eliminated by 2015-2016

 -national debt to be falling as a share of GDP by 2015-2016 (it was just over 60% in 2010 and 85% in March 2019)

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/reality-check/2012/dec/05/reality-check-george-osborne-debt-deficit

https://www.ukpublicspending.co.uk/uk_national_debt_analysis

[BigH]

What makes my blood boil is that, back in 2010, there were Nobel Prize winning macro-economists screaming that Austerity was absolutely the wrong thing to do and that it would lead to a decade or more of low economic growth and stagnant wages.

That was dismissed by the Tories. They said that cutting Government spending would actually make the economy thrive and all os us richer.

Well the results are in now. Up there on that chart. Who do you think was right?

Yep, the evidence is in and is beyond doubt.

'Osbornomics' is a fatally flawed economic concept.

So flawed that even Johnson has ditched it.

What a waste of a decade.

[BillyStubbsTears]

See Ldr. There's the tragedy of it.

They were told in 2010 that trying to cut the deficit rapidly by cutting Govt spending when the economy was still on its knees would a) Not cut the deficit quickly and b) cause a lot of unnecessary economic hurt.

Guess what?
They tried to cut the deficit quickly by cutting Govt spending. They STILL haven't eliminated the deficit, 5 years after their 5 year target. And we've just had the worst decade of economic growth since the Napoleonic Wars.

And STILL folk won't accept that those economists were right and Cameron & Osborne and pretty much everyone on the Right were wrong. I'm not sure exactly what it would take to get folk to examine their pre-conceived ideas if this doesn't.

[ravenrover]

What about the sixties? Things were good as far as I remember

[BillyStubbsTears]

Raven.

Right the way from the War to the end of the 1970s, incomes were rising and the rises were spread pretty evenly across society. That happened under both Labour and Tory governments.

In the 40 years since then, there's only been one decade where that has happened and it was the one decade when Labour were in power.

Go figure.

[idler]

What about the sixties? Things were good as far as I remember

The 60s was a great time to be alive, especially if you were a teenager.

[rtid88]

One without any form of social media please!
The 90's was the last great decade.... World's gone to sh1t ever since!

[BillyStubbsTears]

See Ldr. There's the tragedy of it.

They were told in 2010 that trying to cut the deficit rapidly by cutting Govt spending when the economy was still on its knees would a) Not cut the deficit quickly and b) cause a lot of unnecessary economic hurt.

Guess what?
They tried to cut the deficit quickly by cutting Govt spending. They STILL haven't eliminated the deficit, 5 years after their 5 year target. And we've just had the worst decade of economic growth since the Napoleonic Wars.

And STILL folk won't accept that those economists were right and Cameron & Osborne and pretty much everyone on the Right were wrong. I'm not sure exactly what it would take to get folk to examine their pre-conceived ideas if this doesn't.

Oh aye. I forgot to add. The whole argument for Austerity was that if we didn't get debt down quickly, bond rates would explode. That's effectively the interest rate we pay on our Govt debt. That was supposed to be the nightmare. Hey! We might even lose our AAA status on the bond markets. That would be the end of the world! We MUST get debt down, even if that means not properly funding schools, police and the NHS. Even if it means the bestial approach to benefits that Dagenham Rovers has described.

So what happened?

Well we didn't get the debt down. It's still rising today.

We lost our AAA rating in 2012.

So the bond rates have exploded, right?

Wrong. Today the interest rate that the Govt pays to borrow money from the markets is 0.07%.
https://mobile.twitter.com/BruceReuters/status/1235945060451209218

That's way less than inflation. That means effectively, the money markets will pay the Govt to take their money. Because there's nowhere safe to invest it where it will make money. Because the economy has been on its back for a decade.

Tories: supposed to be the party of economics. They don't know the first f**king thing about how the capitalist system works. Meanwhile, every sorrowful step in this disaster was predicted by left of centre economists who DO know how to get capitalism to work for everyone, if only we'd chuffing well listen to them.

[SydneyRover]

One without any form of social media please!
The 90's was the last great decade.... World's gone to sh1t ever since!

The forum is the just about only social media I use 88, and thinking about the OP's question it's hard if not impossible to say this era was better than that because it's so personal and dependent upon what age and circumstance you were when you experienced any particular era. Everyone is right!

[BillyStubbsTears]

For the record, I was meaning which economic era would people prefer us to have. For me, it's a no brainer. The late 90s to late 2000s were the best of my adult lifetime.

[bahrain rover]

I don't know if this is relevant to this topic BST? But right now I feel lucky to be able to sample both sides of the economic coin. Here in the Middle East like a lot of the western and developing world we have all the trappings of the so called rich life style, the disposable income, fancy house/car/restaurants to eat at etc. But when I go home I go to Datu Piang Mindanao Southern Philippines. Which by Philippines standard is a second class rural municipality with a annual budget of only 1.5m GBP for all 16 barangays ( sub villages) They obviously don't have any of the everyday luxury's we are used to like a local supermarket or even a pharmacy nearest are 45 minuets away by car. Yet the whole place thrives on its own through its own population making it work, everyone has their own little part to play in this, by having their little micro business's. You have a puncture you go this man to fix it, need fire wood to cook you go this person and so on and so on. Even by what we would class a absolute poverty, with the average daily income of less than 5 pounds, everyone makes sure no one goes hungry or needs anything they all stick together and make it work out. This place I absolutely love to be any day. I can honestly say the overall quality of life is better there where it is real sense of family and community away from all the trappings and stress of our supposed rich money orientated lifestyles.       

[tommy toes]

Once again a Tory minister (this time the Chancellor) spouts on Tele that having carefully looked after the economy over the last 10 years, reducing our debt etc, we are now in a position to loosen the purse strings.
How does Andrew Marr respond?
With no comment.
Why doesn't he challenge this utter b*llocks?

[BillyStubbsTears]

BR

I can see that. There's a hell of a lot to be said for societies where people look out for each other, even when no one has much.

But we lost that here a couple of generations ago. The woman who faced that obscenely skewed set of incomes in the 1980s is the same one who told us "There is no such thing as society."

[ravenrover]

Raven.

Right the way from the War to the end of the 1970s, incomes were rising and the rises were spread pretty evenly across society. That happened under both Labour and Tory governments.

In the 40 years since then, there's only been one decade where that has happened and it was the one decade when Labour were in power.

Go figure.

Billy you obviously missed the attempt at "humour" in the last part of what I said

[wilts rover]

What about the sixties? Things were good as far as I remember

If you can remember the 60's you weren't really there!

(Which I though was either a John Lennon or Jerry Garcia quote but is apparently Paul Kanter from Jefferson Airplane, groovy man)

[ravenrover]

Exactly

[drfchound]

Raven.

Right the way from the War to the end of the 1970s, incomes were rising and the rises were spread pretty evenly across society. That happened under both Labour and Tory governments.

In the 40 years since then, there's only been one decade where that has happened and it was the one decade when Labour were in power.

Go figure.

Billy you obviously missed the attempt at "humour" in the last part of what I said

Nah, that couldn’t possibly happen..........could it?
Just imagine missing something like that.

[BobG]

Every time I read, see or hear our beloved Chancellor declaim that he's not going to apologise for borrowing money I think 'Ok mate. I'm fine with that'.

'When are you going to apologise for the last 10 years though?'

Cheers

BobG

[phil old leake]

Any time without reality TV it dies my nut. Pretty people and idiots becoming famous because they’re pretty people or idiots or in most cases both
Why people watch this garbage is beyond me.

Whatever happened to the days when famous people had some kind of talent

[BillyStubbsTears]

Any time without reality TV it dies my nut. Pretty people and idiots becoming famous because they’re pretty people or idiots or in most cases both
Why people watch this garbage is beyond me.

Whatever happened to the days when famous people had some kind of talent

I'm with you.

[BobG]

I'm one ahead of the pair of you. I never ever ever watch shit like that

BobG

[sheffield exile1]

My era was in the middle. 70's swinging London, 3 years at Uni, summer jobs, a grant and great mates. Real socialism looked a distinct possibility. Remember Grunwucks Miners toppling Heath ( playing Liverpool Tuesday afternoon) and Tony Benn a real possibility. Then one election night in 1979...😕

[SydneyRover]

Any time without reality TV it dies my nut. Pretty people and idiots becoming famous because they’re pretty people or idiots or in most cases both
Why people watch this garbage is beyond me.

Whatever happened to the days when famous people had some kind of talent

I don't really understand why it's called Reality TV as nothing could be further from reality on little I've seen which would be adverts and not shows.