Integrity in politics

[BillyStubbsTears]

Here's a thought.

In 2007/08 when the roof fell in on the global banking system, we were hours away from the entire financial structure of the capitalist world ceasing to function. That is no exaggeration. We were literally hours away from a domino effect og banks going bust and the entire financial structure that underpins business failing.

The then Labour Govt led the world in taking the emergency action that was necessary to save the entire global economic system from crashing. It cost unimaginable sums of money to do that. But it had to be done. Not to protect the banks, but to protect all of us.

It led to Govt debt skyrocketting. Not because of profligate spending, but because of the Govt saving the economy, then keeping things going through the inevitable and very nasty recession that followed.

All that was textbook economics. But Cameron and Osborne, helped by the media, portrayed Gordon Brown as a reckless, out of control spender who was dangerous to Britain. Labour were "Deficit Deniers" in not slashing Govt spending. The deficit and the debt were all that mattered. We had "maxed our the nation's credit card".

Bullshit. All of it. Done for political reasons because it was the Tories' path to winning in 2010.

Now. See this...
https://twitter.com/DuncanWeldon/status/1245686024736518145

Our Govt debt is about to go through the roof because of Govt decisions to support the economy through the ravages of CV-19. The effect on the national debt will be at least as horrific as the Global Financial Crash. And the Tory Govt is absolutely correct to pour this money in because, just as in 2008, not doing so would be absolutely catastrophic for all of us.

Now, there would be a very, very easy political attack line by Labour. They could do what Osborne and Cameron did in 2009-2010. They could ignore the textbook economics and look to make political capital out of this. They could accuse the Govt of being reckless with the nation's finances.

I will guarantee you that they will not.

And those of you who idly say that all politicians are the same, just stop and ponder that. How you were treated like gullible idiots by Cameron a decade ago. And how Starmer will not do the same this time round. and then think whether there actually ARE some people with integrity in politics, who put the interests of the nation ahead of party benefit.

[Iberian Red]

If you voted for that idiot,you are a gullible idiot. Much the same can be said of Boris, an absolute arse of a man who shook hands in a CV ward when the rest of humanity knew it was wrong,just to get his ugly f**king mug on tv and in your living rooms.

[Ldr]

Integrity and politics dont sit in the same sentence ever.

[BillyStubbsTears]

Ldr.

If they don't then obviously Labour will accuse the Tories of madcap spending.

[scawsby steve]

Here's a thought.

In 2007/08 when the roof fell in on the global banking system, we were hours away from the entire financial structure of the capitalist world ceasing to function. That is no exaggeration. We were literally hours away from a domino effect og banks going bust and the entire financial structure that underpins business failing.

The then Labour Govt led the world in taking the emergency action that was necessary to save the entire global economic system from crashing. It cost unimaginable sums of money to do that. But it had to be done. Not to protect the banks, but to protect all of us.

It led to Govt debt skyrocketting. Not because of profligate spending, but because of the Govt saving the economy, then keeping things going through the inevitable and very nasty recession that followed.

All that was textbook economics. But Cameron and Osborne, helped by the media, portrayed Gordon Brown as a reckless, out of control spender who was dangerous to Britain. Labour were "Deficit Deniers" in not slashing Govt spending. The deficit and the debt were all that mattered. We had "maxed our the nation's credit card".

Bullshit. All of it. Done for political reasons because it was the Tories' path to winning in 2010.

Now. See this...
https://twitter.com/DuncanWeldon/status/1245686024736518145

Our Govt debt is about to go through the roof because of Govt decisions to support the economy through the ravages of CV-19. The effect on the national debt will be at least as horrific as the Global Financial Crash. And the Tory Govt is absolutely correct to pour this money in because, just as in 2008, not doing so would be absolutely catastrophic for all of us.

Now, there would be a very, very easy political attack line by Labour. They could do what Osborne and Cameron did in 2009-2010. They could ignore the textbook economics and look to make political capital out of this. They could accuse the Govt of being reckless with the nation's finances.

I will guarantee you that they will not.

And those of you who idly say that all politicians are the same, just stop and ponder that. How you were treated like gullible idiots by Cameron a decade ago. And how Starmer will not do the same this time round. and then think whether there actually ARE some people with integrity in politics, who put the interests of the nation ahead of party benefit.

Starmer? Integrity? After he constantly tried to block the will of the British people?

[BillyStubbsTears]

You mean after he proposed a public vote?

Fascinating, that take by Brexit supporters.

We had a vote! It is sacrosanct for all time! Anyone suggesting we have a vote is an enemy of democracy!

Now we've got that out if the way, do you have anything to add to the actual point I was making?

[Bentley Bullet]

Anyone who wants to overrule a vote because they didn't get their own way is an enemy of democracy.

[BillyStubbsTears]

And off we go again. Total and utter refusal to accept the argument out forward. That it WASN'T about "getting their own way". It was about getting clarity in an issue which had been demonstrated to be unclear.

Apparently it is the epitome of democracy to hold a vote in which one side screams Project Fear at every concern raised by the other side, and then insist that vote is sacrosanct when every one of those concerns turns out to have been correct. But it is undemocratic to suggest a follow-up vote after those issues have been clarified.

And anyone who suggests a follow-up vote is a lying, deceiving, cheating enemy of democracy.

I wonder if the people who argue that EVERY politician is self-serving liar realise how much it says about their standards?

[scawsby steve]

You mean after he proposed a public vote?

Fascinating, that take by Brexit supporters.

We had a vote! It is sacrosanct for all time! Anyone suggesting we have a vote is an enemy of democracy!

Now we've got that out if the way, do you have anything to add to the actual point I was making?

Yes. If Starmer is elected leader, and he will be, get ready for another thumping in 2024.

Mind you, I'd better be careful here. The law of averages would probably say that you're bound to back a political winner sooner or later.

[BillyStubbsTears]

So. Nothing whatsoever to add then?

Odd, but it takes all sorts.

[Bentley Bullet]

And off we go again. Total and utter refusal to accept the argument out forward. That it WASN'T about "getting their own way". It was about getting clarity in an issue which had been demonstrated to be unclear.

Apparently it is the epitome of democracy to hold a vote in which one side screams Project Fear at every concern raised by the other side, and then insist that vote is sacrosanct when every one of those concerns turns out to have been correct. But it is undemocratic to suggest a follow-up vote after those issues have been clarified.

And anyone who suggests a follow-up vote is a lying, deceiving, cheating enemy of democracy.

I wonder if the people who argue that EVERY politician is self-serving liar realise how much it says about their standards?

BST, you seem to be under the impression that the longer your posts are in denying the bleeding obvious the more convincing you are.

I'll say it, and will continue to say it as long as you carry on your charade.....

Anyone who wants to overrule a vote because they didn't get their own way is an enemy of democracy.

[BillyStubbsTears]

And once again, you give us an insight into your own moral standards. The assumption of bad faith in others.

And totally ignore the topic of this thread.

[selby]

  Billy we had the vote in 2016 called a referendum, then parliament including labour MP's ratified the vote, then May won an election although narrowly based on again ratifying Brexit, with all other party's opposing Brexit, then Johnson won overwhelmingly standing on the Brexit ticket, and against many constituents voters Labour and all the other party's stood to oppose Brexit.
   That is four votes Billy that the electorate and parliament ratified the will of the electorate to leave the EU despite 3 years of the most vile and coordinated with the EU and judiciary, vile postings on  the internet including this forum about the aged of the country dying and not knowing what they have voted for, when obviously they did and repeatedly did so.
  Remainers, and mainly the young lefties in this country  especially the South East who have flourished  by being geographically the first port of call, and also supported an underlying black economy to the detriment of the rest of the country committed the vilest and most divisive campaign ever in my life time, that matched Thatchers attack on the miners and steel workers.
  They and some on here got what they deserved and lost four times, and are still harping on about it, it must have hurt.

[Bentley Bullet]

And once again, you give us an insight into your own moral standards. The assumption of bad faith in others.

And totally ignore the topic of this thread.

The topic of the thread is about integrity, and anyone who wants to overrule a vote because they didn't get their own way is not showing integrity.

[Metalmicky]

Oh good..... another politics thread.

[BillyStubbsTears]

Fascinating how you cling on to Brexit as your touchstone even when it is done

You won.

Get over it. The world has moved on. We are dealing with an issue that makes Brexit look like an utter nothing. I raised the point that a politician truly lacking in integrity would seek to make capital from the Govt's current economic decisions.

You three respond with "Brexit, Brexit, Brexit."

Quite bizarre.

[BillyStubbsTears]

Oh good..... another politics thread.

Oh brilliant. Another post telling us that the reader read something he didn't need to read.

Here's a thought. Post something yourself.

[Iberian Red]

Anyone who wants to overrule a vote because they didn't get their own way is an enemy of democracy.

How unsurprisingly simplistic an opinion.

[Iberian Red]

  Billy we had the vote in 2016 called a referendum, then parliament including labour MP's ratified the vote, then May won an election although narrowly based on again ratifying Brexit, with all other party's opposing Brexit, then Johnson won overwhelmingly standing on the Brexit ticket, and against many constituents voters Labour and all the other party's stood to oppose Brexit.
   That is four votes Billy that the electorate and parliament ratified the will of the electorate to leave the EU despite 3 years of the most vile and coordinated with the EU and judiciary, vile postings on  the internet including this forum about the aged of the country dying and not knowing what they have voted for, when obviously they did and repeatedly did so.
  Remainers, and mainly the young lefties in this country  especially the South East who have flourished  by being geographically the first port of call, and also supported an underlying black economy to the detriment of the rest of the country committed the vilest and most divisive campaign ever in my life time, that matched Thatchers attack on the miners and steel workers.
  They and some on here got what they deserved and lost four times, and are still harping on about it, it must have hurt.

Did you hear all that from a bloke on the radio?

[Metalmicky]

Oh good..... another politics thread.

Oh brilliant. Another post telling us that the reader read something he didn't need to read.

Here's a thought. Post something yourself.

I only look in here occasionally - I don't spend my life in here......... I'll leave that to you

[Bentley Bullet]

Fascinating how you cling on to Brexit as your touchstone even when it is done

You won.

Get over it. The world has moved on. We are dealing with an issue that makes Brexit look like an utter nothing. I raised the point that a politician truly lacking in integrity would seek to make capital from the Govt's current economic decisions.

You three respond with "Brexit, Brexit, Brexit."

Quite bizarre.

I didn't win exactly but thank God you lost. I might have won, had I voted to leave, but Cameron and Osborne's project fear persuaded me not to do so. Anyway, that's another argument.

You brought the subject of Integrity up, and after the Labour party's stance on Brexit, there's no wonder the subject was resurrected.

[Bentley Bullet]

Anyone who wants to overrule a vote because they didn't get their own way is an enemy of democracy.

How unsurprisingly simplistic an opinion.

You should appreciate my simplistic opinion, it means you can join in.

[scawsby steve]

Fascinating how you cling on to Brexit as your touchstone even when it is done

You won.

Get over it. The world has moved on. We are dealing with an issue that makes Brexit look like an utter nothing. I raised the point that a politician truly lacking in integrity would seek to make capital from the Govt's current economic decisions.

You three respond with "Brexit, Brexit, Brexit."

Quite bizarre.

No BST. You quoted someone as being a politician of integrity. We've shown you an example of where he lacked integrity.

[selby]

IB , I  can think for myself, that's why I get under the skin of people like you.
 How you doing over there by the way?

[BigH]

Don't rise to the bait BST.

You know that SS and BB would tell you that day was night and black was white.

They are to this forum what Waldorf and Statler are to the Muppets.

[BillyStubbsTears]

There is something truly depressing about this BigH.

It's the refusal to move on.

BB has been lecturing us for years about the importance of the country pulling together.

But in the depths of a crisis that utterly overwhelms Brexit, it's clear that that was so much piss and wind. They don't WANT to let go of Brexit. They want to use that as the touchstone.

Very, very depressing.

[Bentley Bullet]

Don't rise to the bait BST.

You know that SS and BB would tell you that day was night and black was white.

They are to this forum what Waldorf and Statler are to the Muppets.

Do you mean remarking on a cast of absurd puppet-like characters?

Oh aye, I see what you mean!

I doubt they will take kindly to your description though!

[BigH]

There is something truly depressing about this BigH.

It's the refusal to move on.

BB has been lecturing us for years about the importance of the country pulling together.

But in the depths of a crisis that utterly overwhelms Brexit, it's clear that that was so much piss and wind. They don't WANT to let go of Brexit. They want to use that as the touchstone.

Very, very depressing.

It is, but I'm guessing that they're guys of a certain age and a certain disposition who get a weird kick out of doing what they do.

Their problem not yours.

Back to the OP. I do believe that integrity in politics will make a come back because I think that's where electoral opinion is moving to. We've suffered the bullshitters, the chancers and the thickos. The entitled public school boys and their hedge fund mates.

Time to get back to the thinkers, the visionaries and the leaders. Those who speak for the values that most of us aspire to.

[Bentley Bullet]

There is something truly depressing about this BigH.

It's the refusal to move on.

BB has been lecturing us for years about the importance of the country pulling together.

But in the depths of a crisis that utterly overwhelms Brexit, it's clear that that was so much piss and wind. They don't WANT to let go of Brexit. They want to use that as the touchstone.

Very, very depressing.

How dare you talk of me refusing to move on during this time of crisis. Your repeated politicking just continues relentlessly despite current events and this thread is just another example of it.

I honestly do not know how you dare!

[BillyStubbsTears]

And there you go again.

You have entered this discussion certain that I am engaging in party politics.

I am not.

I'm pointing out the very different approaches of the opposition parties in the last two major crises. That is a statement of fact and nothing to do with party politics.

For the record, I have spoken very positively of Rishi Sunak's actions to date. It is very good to see consensus on this vital issue. I am comparing that to the risible party political action of Cameron and Osborne a decade ago.

You have chosen to wade in with the assumption that I was dicking about.

There is the problem in a nutshell. If you assume bad faith from the start, you will see it everywhere.

And if you insist on clinging to Brexit as your touchstone, you will be blind to politicians genuinely acting in the national interest.