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Errr you do know that the supply of PPE was privatised to an American company a while back don't you sproty?And that company itself changed hands only two weeks ago which I am sure helped the supply issues.https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/22/revealed-private-firm-running-uk-ppe-stockpile-was-sold-in-middle-of-pandemic?CMP=share_btn_tw
You have to if you don't have gloves Sprot
Sproty, you're talking b*llocksDRI is waiting on supplies every single dayYou need to stop believing everything that you read
Yep, so who's in charge of the NHS?
Quote from: SydneyRover on April 23, 2020, 07:38:26 amYou have to if you don't have gloves Sprot Sunday times news feed stating that NHS supply chain is accusing Hospitals of stockpililng PPE as 24,000 containers sent out to Hospitals throughout country have not been returned empty. Looks like the various Trusts are squirrelling away the stuff and acting like independent Palantinies.
The NHS was broken up into little competing fiefdoms by the appalling "reforms" introduced by Lansley in the early 2010s.What do you expect the Trust's to do, but compete with each other? That is their raison d'etre.
Quote from: BillyStubbsTears on April 23, 2020, 10:21:41 amThe NHS was broken up into little competing fiefdoms by the appalling "reforms" introduced by Lansley in the early 2010s.What do you expect the Trust's to do, but compete with each other? That is their raison d'etre.Foundation trusts which complete were introduced by the Health and Social Care (Community Health and Standards) act of 2003, individual NHS trusts begin to operate early 90s
It's not solely a UK issue, as much as some want to point the finger at certain ministers, this is a global issue;Even the Germans, who are treating less patients than we are have their issues;https://www.spiegel.de/international/germany/germany-is-failing-in-its-efforts-to-obtain-protective-gear-a-fd08b86c-7b3a-4ac2-b2fe-089f4490679c?fbclid=IwAR1ibnxiwFgldIJKuDrgKbXK_oKY3wncJqoFDHH3hk6EseNAOUACRI1fKJgAnd what can we say about the USA??And just to add by the way, for those who wish to criticise that we aren't engaging with UK manufacturers enough, do you know that over 8,000 companies have responded?It's no surprise that some of those companies haven't heard back.
Quote from: silent majority on April 23, 2020, 01:49:53 pmIt's not solely a UK issue, as much as some want to point the finger at certain ministers, this is a global issue;Even the Germans, who are treating less patients than we are have their issues;https://www.spiegel.de/international/germany/germany-is-failing-in-its-efforts-to-obtain-protective-gear-a-fd08b86c-7b3a-4ac2-b2fe-089f4490679c?fbclid=IwAR1ibnxiwFgldIJKuDrgKbXK_oKY3wncJqoFDHH3hk6EseNAOUACRI1fKJgAnd what can we say about the USA??And just to add by the way, for those who wish to criticise that we aren't engaging with UK manufacturers enough, do you know that over 8,000 companies have responded?It's no surprise that some of those companies haven't heard back.The bigger structural problem is our complete reliance on China when it comes to the production of pretty much everything and anything.
SM.I am perfectly happy to accept that it may be impossible for Western European countries to source enough masks for the population at large. Securing maybe 50million a day when we don't have indigenous manufacturers is a hell of an ask. What I'm talking about is treating people with honesty, not the, frankly, devious guidance that came out last night.It sounds from your article as though they have been more open about the problem in Germany:"A mask requirement was not seriously considered during a video conference between Chancellor Angela Merkel, several government ministers and Germany’s state governors either. The main argument was not that it wouldn’t make any sense, but that it wouldn't be possible because of the sheer lack of masks."They argued that a requirement forcing people to wear masks could not be implemented because the government hasn’t managed to procure sufficient face-coverings. If 80 million Germans were required to wear masks, there wouldn’t be enough for those who need them the most: doctors, nurses and the staff in nursing homes. During the chancellor’s meeting, some cited the example of South Korea, where electronics manufacturer Samsung provides each of its employees with two masks a day. This wouldn't be possible in Germany." My over-riding concern at the moment is that our Govt seems still in the mindset where the most important thing is controlling the media story. It's time they started treating us like adults, instead of spinning every issue.
Quote from: Copps is Magic on April 23, 2020, 01:53:05 pmQuote from: silent majority on April 23, 2020, 01:49:53 pmIt's not solely a UK issue, as much as some want to point the finger at certain ministers, this is a global issue;Even the Germans, who are treating less patients than we are have their issues;https://www.spiegel.de/international/germany/germany-is-failing-in-its-efforts-to-obtain-protective-gear-a-fd08b86c-7b3a-4ac2-b2fe-089f4490679c?fbclid=IwAR1ibnxiwFgldIJKuDrgKbXK_oKY3wncJqoFDHH3hk6EseNAOUACRI1fKJgAnd what can we say about the USA??And just to add by the way, for those who wish to criticise that we aren't engaging with UK manufacturers enough, do you know that over 8,000 companies have responded?It's no surprise that some of those companies haven't heard back.The bigger structural problem is our complete reliance on China when it comes to the production of pretty much everything and anything.Yes but that's far too simple as well. I work for a global manufacturer, we have 72 factories in about 30 countries, give or take. All our Chinese factories are up and running, its those in Eastern Europe and India that are causing the big issues.
Quote from: silent majority on April 23, 2020, 01:56:10 pmQuote from: Copps is Magic on April 23, 2020, 01:53:05 pmQuote from: silent majority on April 23, 2020, 01:49:53 pmIt's not solely a UK issue, as much as some want to point the finger at certain ministers, this is a global issue;Even the Germans, who are treating less patients than we are have their issues;https://www.spiegel.de/international/germany/germany-is-failing-in-its-efforts-to-obtain-protective-gear-a-fd08b86c-7b3a-4ac2-b2fe-089f4490679c?fbclid=IwAR1ibnxiwFgldIJKuDrgKbXK_oKY3wncJqoFDHH3hk6EseNAOUACRI1fKJgAnd what can we say about the USA??And just to add by the way, for those who wish to criticise that we aren't engaging with UK manufacturers enough, do you know that over 8,000 companies have responded?It's no surprise that some of those companies haven't heard back.The bigger structural problem is our complete reliance on China when it comes to the production of pretty much everything and anything.Yes but that's far too simple as well. I work for a global manufacturer, we have 72 factories in about 30 countries, give or take. All our Chinese factories are up and running, its those in Eastern Europe and India that are causing the big issues.Granted. But how many of those factories rely on China for their supply chains? Its supply chain dependence that is the worrying thing. China's share of manufacturing is high for a single country but its supply and processing/distribution of raw materials is even higher.Anyway, I don't have problems with China manufacturing stuff. The better way of putting is, as BST says, is a worrying lack of manufactuing capabilities/capacity with us.
Quote from: BillyStubbsTears on April 23, 2020, 01:55:47 pmSM.I am perfectly happy to accept that it may be impossible for Western European countries to source enough masks for the population at large. Securing maybe 50million a day when we don't have indigenous manufacturers is a hell of an ask. What I'm talking about is treating people with honesty, not the, frankly, devious guidance that came out last night.It sounds from your article as though they have been more open about the problem in Germany:"A mask requirement was not seriously considered during a video conference between Chancellor Angela Merkel, several government ministers and Germany’s state governors either. The main argument was not that it wouldn’t make any sense, but that it wouldn't be possible because of the sheer lack of masks."They argued that a requirement forcing people to wear masks could not be implemented because the government hasn’t managed to procure sufficient face-coverings. If 80 million Germans were required to wear masks, there wouldn’t be enough for those who need them the most: doctors, nurses and the staff in nursing homes. During the chancellor’s meeting, some cited the example of South Korea, where electronics manufacturer Samsung provides each of its employees with two masks a day. This wouldn't be possible in Germany." My over-riding concern at the moment is that our Govt seems still in the mindset where the most important thing is controlling the media story. It's time they started treating us like adults, instead of spinning every issue.I wasn't having a pop at any one individual. And I'm sure I would sit more on your side of the fence than our current government.The point I was making is that, even in our little forum, the opportunity to score political points rather than research and balance the situation we currently find ourselves in is too great for some. Just like Donald Trump we've politicised this battle for our own ends. I'm happy to see the Sir Keir Starmer hasn't gone that way, and offers to help, but that hasn't stopped members of his party.
Quote from: Copps is Magic on April 23, 2020, 02:22:30 pmQuote from: silent majority on April 23, 2020, 01:56:10 pmQuote from: Copps is Magic on April 23, 2020, 01:53:05 pmQuote from: silent majority on April 23, 2020, 01:49:53 pmIt's not solely a UK issue, as much as some want to point the finger at certain ministers, this is a global issue;Even the Germans, who are treating less patients than we are have their issues;https://www.spiegel.de/international/germany/germany-is-failing-in-its-efforts-to-obtain-protective-gear-a-fd08b86c-7b3a-4ac2-b2fe-089f4490679c?fbclid=IwAR1ibnxiwFgldIJKuDrgKbXK_oKY3wncJqoFDHH3hk6EseNAOUACRI1fKJgAnd what can we say about the USA??And just to add by the way, for those who wish to criticise that we aren't engaging with UK manufacturers enough, do you know that over 8,000 companies have responded?It's no surprise that some of those companies haven't heard back.The bigger structural problem is our complete reliance on China when it comes to the production of pretty much everything and anything.Yes but that's far too simple as well. I work for a global manufacturer, we have 72 factories in about 30 countries, give or take. All our Chinese factories are up and running, its those in Eastern Europe and India that are causing the big issues.Granted. But how many of those factories rely on China for their supply chains? Its supply chain dependence that is the worrying thing. China's share of manufacturing is high for a single country but its supply and processing/distribution of raw materials is even higher.Anyway, I don't have problems with China manufacturing stuff. The better way of putting is, as BST says, is a worrying lack of manufactuing capabilities/capacity with us.Yep, agree with that.The interdependency on factory to factory is quite incredible, and supply chains are nothing like they used to be. Raw materials, as you point out, is centred in countries like China. Just about all the plastics we use in our factories originate in China, and issues there, such as long lead times, cause a ripple effect everywhere.
Mix into it all the reports that the Military called in to help are basically saying the Nhs logistics network is not fit for purpose and are asking for a bigger say in sorting it out. when you think they are pretty expert at planning and logistics it would probably make sense
It’s not making mistakes that annoys people, it’s how those mistakes are dealt with which is more of an issue.