What has happened in this country

[bpoolrover]

  Love this it's a right laugh, I hope the same people disgusted at any racial name calling will remember when calling older people gammon, racial bigots etc. on other threads. 

Gammon isn't a term rooted in centuries of oppression and murder.

are you allowed to be racist or offensive if it’s a new word then?

[MachoMadness]

  Love this it's a right laugh, I hope the same people disgusted at any racial name calling will remember when calling older people gammon, racial bigots etc. on other threads. 

Gammon isn't a term rooted in centuries of oppression and murder.

are you allowed to be racist or offensive if it’s a new word then?

It's not a racist term. It comes from when racists go on angry, racist rants and turn a shade of pink. Don't be an angry racist, don't get called a gammon. Works for me.

[Glyn_Wigley]

  Love this it's a right laugh, I hope the same people disgusted at any racial name calling will remember when calling older people gammon, racial bigots etc. on other threads. 

What do you call people who keep insulting others by calling them liberal leftie elitists?

I'm mulling over 'fascist bullyboys' myself. 

[drfchound]

But apparently it is ok to use the term Tory Fanboys.
Do you think that is acceptable?

[phil old leake]

Hound just read your thread from the 14th. I was waiting for something similar if I’d got a response

If people are upset by it (and they should be) then challenge it

If you don’t then you’re not really upset. I don’t feel it has any thing to do with being nervous. I’m quite sure if someone challenged racism and got abuse there would be lots of others who would support them

I still maintain I’ve not heard any racism in the south stand and I used to stand central

I suppose there could be an argument that it’s maybe more prevalent in the east and south stands where more people my age (58+) sit who are maybe less tolerant

[Ldr]

https://medium.com/@burntoakboy/the-new-cultural-revolution-efa0c84ba966

An interesting read

[BillyStubbsTears]

Ldr.

You might want to do a bit of background reading on the author of that piece.

Brendan O'Neil is a career revolutionary. He started off as a Marxist. Then he went so far off the Far Left spectrum he re-appeared on the Far-Right as a Revolutionary Libertarian.

One thing has remained constant.

He wants society to go up in flames and be re-born.

What he is doing in that article is trying to wind up people on the Right. He WANTS the Culture War. He wants it to consume everyone.

Notice how he structures the piece.

It starts with reasonable tut-tutting about vandalism. And then he increases the ante all the way through, until he gets to the real purpose.

Which is putting forward the terrifying article written by Senator Tom Cotton as something reasonable.

Senator Cotton (a SENATOR for f**ks sake!) wrote an Op-Ed in the New York Times calling for the US Army to be let loose to quell the BLM protests.

THAT is what O'Neil wants. Because it puts society one step closer to going up totally in flames.

And that is what that article is about. If you don't know the context, by the time you get to that part you are nodding furiously and saying, "I agree, it IS disgraceful that NYT journalists rebelled against an article that proposed us going a step closer to Civil War."

There are people on both sides of this issue that want to recruit people to help them bring down society. Unless you want that to happen, you need to think about whether you want to help them.

[SydneyRover]

I don't read or watch anything with his name attached, he popped down here a couple of time spouting rubbish.

[Not Now Kato]

https://medium.com/@burntoakboy/the-new-cultural-revolution-efa0c84ba966

An interesting read

Interesting in that there's a lot of whataboutisms in there.  Reminds me of this meme....
 

 
As to what has happened to this country? I give you....
 

 

 
When influential people and an influential media incite people like that there is little wonder that racism appears to be on the increase.  Now what does propaganda like that, aimed aagainst foreigners, remind me of? Oh yes, I remember - and that didn't end at all well for the people lured into believing it!

[SydneyRover]

Donnybazrover asked where to from here of several of us, this for a start


Lammy says Johnson should implement existing racism inquiry recommendations ahead of ordering new one

In his Today programme interview this morning (see 9.19am) David Lammy, the shadow justice secretary, said that if Boris Johnson were serious about wanting to address racial inequalities, he should implement the recommendations of the many reviews already sitting on shelves in Westminster instead of ordering a new inquiry.

Helpfully, he itemised some of them, starting with a reference to the review he himself led into the way BAME people are treated by the criminal justice system. David Cameron appointed Lammy to head the review when he was PM, and it reported to Theresa May’s government inn 2017.

Lammy said:

I made 35 specific recommendations in the Lammy review (pdf). Implement them.

There are 110 recommendations in the Angiolini review (pdf) into deaths into police custody. Implement them.

There are 30 recommendations in the Home Office review (pdf) into the Windrush scandal. Implement them.

Twenty six into Baroness McGregor’s review (pdf) into workplace discrimination. Implement them.

That’s what Boris has to do. And the Black Lives protests can stop and we can get on with dealing with the coronavirus.

[Not Now Kato]

More racist propaganda for the gullible
 

 
 

[DonnyBazR0ver]

That's more than a fair point Sydney. This is one of the reasons why I think we really do need reform of our political system.

I think the Brexit decision was a huge one and despite what some might have us believe, it wasn't all about immigration etc. But for me, as important as that decision was, we also need to get our own act together if we are to have an effective political system. We've seen the worst of politics/politicians in recent times under a system being stretched to beyond its limits, going from one crisis to another. There must be hundreds of papers on the shelves of Whitehall that have not been acted upon or reviewed as they should be. The media/social media whip everything up into a crisis and demand this that and t'other.

Let's start with Westminster and the Houses of power. The Chambers etc are museum pieces and are no longer fit for purpose. Yes, 'The home of Democracy', 100s of years of tradition will never be forgotten but come on, time to modernise.

The discussions need to continue about reform of the system of representation, and whether than needs more devolved power to the regions etc. Do we really need this many MPs who claim to represent their constituencies but don"t??

I won't drivel on but you know where I'm coming from.

[SydneyRover]

Hopefully the Daily Express will die away Kato.

[Ldr]

Hopefully the Daily Express will die away Kato.

Hopefully ALL the current print media will die

[BillyStubbsTears]

That "They are all at it, so damn them all" approach is THE most dangerous one to have taken root recently.

[wilts rover]

But apparently it is ok to use the term Tory Fanboys.
Do you think that is acceptable?

I would suggest you would be offended if your we are looney leftie. If you were a Tory fanboy then probably not.

Maybe if you found one of each to ask?

[phil old leake]

Not now kato. Nice cartoon with some genuine sentiment
I do take issue with the sentences black lives are being treated as expendable by the police and government and we need to focus now because the situation has got out of control

Can I please just remind people that the recent incidents of police being involved in the death of black people was in the USA
In case some people have forgotten we actually live in the United Kingdom
It’s totally unfair and unwarranted to associate the police in the United Kingdom with what’s occurring in the USA
The cultural situation is absolutely miles apart between the USA and United Kingdom
There are obviously issues here but let’s put this in perspective

[drfchound]

Well said Phil.

[drfchound]

But apparently it is ok to use the term Tory Fanboys.
Do you think that is acceptable?

I would suggest you would be offended if your we are looney leftie. If you were a Tory fanboy then probably not.

Maybe if you found one of each to ask?

I don’t understand what you are saying there wilts?
“If your we are loony leftie”?
Sorry, I don’t get that at all.

[SydneyRover]

Not now kato. Nice cartoon with some genuine sentiment
I do take issue with the sentences black lives are being treated as expendable by the police and government and we need to focus now because the situation has got out of control

Can I please just remind people that the recent incidents of police being involved in the death of black people was in the USA
In case some people have forgotten we actually live in the United Kingdom
It’s totally unfair and unwarranted to associate the police in the United Kingdom with what’s occurring in the USA
The cultural situation is absolutely miles apart between the USA and United Kingdom
There are obviously issues here but let’s put this in perspective

I don't think you need to remind anyone here Phil it's a straw man argument, but there is no complacancy required either as UK police do stop and search more bame people than the rest of society, which is racism. With an openly racist PM it's going to be difficult to stop.

'More BAME people likely to be targeted' under relaxed stop-and-search rules
 This article is more than 7 months old
Official report finds disparity in use of tactic and says this may be partly down to discrimination by officers''

https://www.theguardian.com/law/2019/oct/18/more-bame-people-likely-to-be-targeted-under-relaxed-stop-and-search-rules

[Not Now Kato]

Not now kato. Nice cartoon with some genuine sentiment
I do take issue with the sentences black lives are being treated as expendable by the police and government and we need to focus now because the situation has got out of control

Can I please just remind people that the recent incidents of police being involved in the death of black people was in the USA
In case some people have forgotten we actually live in the United Kingdom
It’s totally unfair and unwarranted to associate the police in the United Kingdom with what’s occurring in the USA
The cultural situation is absolutely miles apart between the USA and United Kingdom
There are obviously issues here but let’s put this in perspective

I think you're completely missing the point Phil, (as indeed are so many - possibly fueled by the reporting in the media).  This isn't about the police in America killing a black man, it's about so much more than that.  The killing of Floyd was simply the straw that broke the camels back on rampant racial prejudice.
 
Yes, it's more ingrained in the US; but it's certainly a big issue here too - fueled by a media with an agenda as I've shown above.  There's already been a review in this country, why do we need another?  Oh, I know, so Johnson can appear to be doing something in the hope that the problem will go away!  I doubt now that it will.

[bpoolrover]

The problem is according to reports knife crime is higher with people in BAME communities so would that naturally not require more stop and search?

[big fat yorkshire pudding]

Tricky one though bpool. Why do they carry knives, why are many more black people in society involved in crime etc?  Get to the root cause to address the issue.  Even then, it's a poor generalisation given so many black people just want normal lives without that feeling.  It's not nice being picked on by police for a reason outside your control. 

I had it by some idiot because I didn't look like I should have the car I had.  He even tried accusing me of hitting the car behind when I pulled in and had it on camera. He did not like it when I told he him he thus had to show me (which he couldn't as it didn't happen).  Imagine being an honest black person penalised for what others say (probably feels like insinuation you're a racist for saying the complete opposite).

[big fat yorkshire pudding]

Quite surprised to see a lack of criticism on here about the far right thugs "defending" monuments in London by pulling nazi salutes in front of them, pissing on them, and having tearups with police. BLM didn't even show up for this exact reason. Oddly quiet on here. I wonder white.

I class them all the same so not really worth commenting on is it? A dick is a dick regardless of its skin colour.

Are you really comparing hundreds of thousands protesting systemic racism - with an unfortunate minority of violent individuals - to a few thousand white supremacists, the vast majority of whom went out with the explicit intention of causing violence?

They are not the same. If you genuinely think that you are part of the problem. Full stop.

Disagree, at the point somebody turns violent and none peaceful they've lost the point of their protest.  Violence shouldn't be accepted in any form and we should be treating people the same regardless.  If I'm part of the problem we really are in trouble.

'They are all the same' is lazy commentary when it is obvious they are not. Maybe it is intended to cast doubt rather than actually saying 'I support the right wing thuggery?' it doesn't make a lot of sense.

That's a pretty twisted interpretation (as usual from you).  Are you as such saying that it's ok for the protests last week to be violent but not yesterdays? 

As for your second point that's pretty offensive. It is ok to criticise something without supporting the alternate view.  Something many seem to fail to realise.  You can criticise the actions of any person without being racist or agreeing with the contrasting view.

Who are all the same you didn't say bfyp? Just remember the far right is politically closer to the team you support than any left organisation which is why presumably a lot lot og them hopped over the fence to become faragists.

Took me a while to respond as had far more pressing things yesterday to think about.

I think it was obvious, a violent idiot is a violent idiot...  The so called far right protests are allowed as much as any other (I find it hard for anyone to agree with them) but read what I responded to and it was fairly obvious to me.

Note I don't support a team politically I don't know how many times that has to be said.  I agree and disagree with many various things.

[SydneyRover]

The problem is according to reports knife crime is higher with people in BAME communities so would that naturally not require more stop and search?

I can't find statistics on that bp maybe you have some to hand bp

The places knife crime is rising fastest

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-49923129

[SydneyRover]

Quite surprised to see a lack of criticism on here about the far right thugs "defending" monuments in London by pulling nazi salutes in front of them, pissing on them, and having tearups with police. BLM didn't even show up for this exact reason. Oddly quiet on here. I wonder white.

I class them all the same so not really worth commenting on is it? A dick is a dick regardless of its skin colour.

Are you really comparing hundreds of thousands protesting systemic racism - with an unfortunate minority of violent individuals - to a few thousand white supremacists, the vast majority of whom went out with the explicit intention of causing violence?

They are not the same. If you genuinely think that you are part of the problem. Full stop.

Disagree, at the point somebody turns violent and none peaceful they've lost the point of their protest.  Violence shouldn't be accepted in any form and we should be treating people the same regardless.  If I'm part of the problem we really are in trouble.

'They are all the same' is lazy commentary when it is obvious they are not. Maybe it is intended to cast doubt rather than actually saying 'I support the right wing thuggery?' it doesn't make a lot of sense.

That's a pretty twisted interpretation (as usual from you).  Are you as such saying that it's ok for the protests last week to be violent but not yesterdays? 

As for your second point that's pretty offensive. It is ok to criticise something without supporting the alternate view.  Something many seem to fail to realise.  You can criticise the actions of any person without being racist or agreeing with the contrasting view.

Who are all the same you didn't say bfyp? Just remember the far right is politically closer to the team you support than any left organisation which is why presumably a lot lot og them hopped over the fence to become faragists.

Took me a while to respond as had far more pressing things yesterday to think about.

I think it was obvious, a violent idiot is a violent idiot...  The so called far right protests are allowed as much as any other (I find it hard for anyone to agree with them) but read what I responded to and it was fairly obvious to me.

Note I don't support a team politically I don't know how many times that has to be said.  I agree and disagree with many various things.

Apologies bfyp, I should have said party not team. I agree that one violent idiot can be the same as another but I go back to what I said, blm supporters didn't in the vast majority go to fight they went to protest whereas the majority of the far right protesters only went to fight and cause trouble, bourne out by the resulting reporting across the media to say they are all the same implies that all protesters from both goups were acting in the same way.

[big fat yorkshire pudding]

I wouldn't disagree the majority of those at the weekend appeared violent and clearly a bigger proportion than the previous protests.

We cannot though have equality when it suits us, as I mentioned the root cause of the issue is far more important, a crime committed is a crime committed it doesn't matter who committed it.

[phil old leake]

I agree that this latest sleight of violence was mainly down to the idiotic far right If not solely

I would suggest that the initial violence and damage was probably not

The far right didn’t pull down a statue in Bristol or spray graffiti on historic statues

[DonnyBazR0ver]

We cannot make assumptions. The BLM protests have if nothing else, highlighted weaknesses in what we have assumed is not our problem, it's USAs problem etc. UK and Australian citizens have Been asking themselves, what have we done to deserve this?

The question is, as Sydney and others have pointed its what HAVEN'T we done that we should have done to deliver on promises made after previous investigations and reviews. Time tells us that Society is fairer and more equal but  there's alot more to be done.

[bpoolrover]

The problem is according to reports knife crime is higher with people in BAME communities so would that naturally not require more stop and search?

I can't find statistics on that bp maybe you have some to hand bp

The places knife crime is rising fastest

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-49923129

I should have stated in London my mistake