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Idler, I was showing that if you wrap yourself in the flag for glory then you have to accept all the other occasions where the flag was used.I don't actually see a lot of respect being shown to the flag when it's used on mugs, teatowels, underwear, shopping bags. I hope the buyers of these items dispose of them respectfully.and thishttps://www.ebay.com.au/itm/BELLA-BRITAIN-UNION-JACK-FLAG-DESIGN-MODERN-FLOOR-RUG-150x220cm-NEW/222575401169?hash=item33d28718d1:g:Vz4AAOSwEUVZYc7U
I struggle with the concept that we should feel guilty for actions of others. Yes this country has done bad things in the past. Why should I as an individual feel guilt though over actions I had not part in? Every adult can only be responsible for their own actions
Quote from: Ldr on June 09, 2020, 10:25:07 amI struggle with the concept that we should feel guilty for actions of others. Yes this country has done bad things in the past. Why should I as an individual feel guilt though over actions I had not part in? Every adult can only be responsible for their own actions Your and my comfortable standards of living are at least in part built on the crimes that our forefathers committed.If you don't want to be responsible for those crimes, maybe you shouldn't have the benefit of the material wealth they bequeathed you?
Quote from: BillyStubbsTears on June 09, 2020, 11:13:30 amQuote from: Ldr on June 09, 2020, 10:25:07 amI struggle with the concept that we should feel guilty for actions of others. Yes this country has done bad things in the past. Why should I as an individual feel guilt though over actions I had not part in? Every adult can only be responsible for their own actions Your and my comfortable standards of living are at least in part built on the crimes that our forefathers committed.If you don't want to be responsible for those crimes, maybe you shouldn't have the benefit of the material wealth they bequeathed you? I can't answer for Ldr, nor would I try; but for my part BST it is clear I cannot be responsible for the crimes of the past; nor can I avoid the benefit of the material wealth I and the country enjoy. What I can do however is to feel ashamed of those crimes and do whatever I can not to be part of making the same, or similar, crimes again. I have friends in Germany who feel exactly the same about the atrocities committed during WW2 - they are not responsible for them, but they do feel ashamed that they happened in the name of their country and are determines such will never happen again. An attitude that would benefit the world if more people were to adopt it. Did you or anyone else watch the excellent but dark Sitting in Limbo drama on BBC last night? It was impossible to watch without understanding the abhorrent treatment the Windrush generation were subject to without feeling ashamed of how they were treated, and, particularly how Amber Rudd and Teresa May behaved 'in our name'! How those two people, (I use that last word lightly), are still in politics and how they are revered by some people is beyond me - shameful beyond belief!
Idler, if the economy improved, surely so would lives of ordinary people, including agricultural labourers. The slave trade would have had a big impact on growing the economy, there must be an indirect link for all of society.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wKCeESg9Ev8
Quote from: Glyn_Wigley on June 09, 2020, 10:42:42 amhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wKCeESg9Ev8Typical that. Highlighting a left wing d*ckhead who's about as funny as a severe toothache.
Quote from: scawsby steve on June 09, 2020, 04:15:15 pmQuote from: Glyn_Wigley on June 09, 2020, 10:42:42 amhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wKCeESg9Ev8Typical that. Highlighting a left wing d*ckhead who's about as funny as a severe toothache.You're just as free to quote a right-wing d**khead who's about as funny as severe toothache too. But no, your reaction is to just to throw insults about. Typical that.The only thing we can deduce from that is that you have no response to what he says. At all.
Quote from: BillyStubbsTears on June 09, 2020, 11:13:30 amQuote from: Ldr on June 09, 2020, 10:25:07 amI struggle with the concept that we should feel guilty for actions of others. Yes this country has done bad things in the past. Why should I as an individual feel guilt though over actions I had not part in? Every adult can only be responsible for their own actions Your and my comfortable standards of living are at least in part built on the crimes that our forefathers committed.If you don't want to be responsible for those crimes, maybe you shouldn't have the benefit of the material wealth they bequeathed you?That's some very broad brush you've got there BST!I would say this country's material wealth is more about the Industrial revolution than was ever about slavery, one obviously impacting on the masses with jobs, housing, welfare and education whereas the other put money into a select few pockets.I'd be happy to consider my comfortable living was more about my work ethic and the choices I've made along the way from humble beginnings than was ever about some slave trader.That doesn't mean I don't feel some angst, but I'm buggered if I'm going to feel responsible for those crimes as you say, and in no part do I feel that my comfortable living is due to crimes committed by my forefathers.
Why should I respond to someone like him who's completely irrelevant to me?The reason why modern day comedians are so f*cking rubbish is that all they can do is take the p*ss out of everything they disagree with, and they try to pass that off as humour.
Quote from: silent majority on June 09, 2020, 02:45:25 pmQuote from: BillyStubbsTears on June 09, 2020, 11:13:30 amQuote from: Ldr on June 09, 2020, 10:25:07 amI struggle with the concept that we should feel guilty for actions of others. Yes this country has done bad things in the past. Why should I as an individual feel guilt though over actions I had not part in? Every adult can only be responsible for their own actions Your and my comfortable standards of living are at least in part built on the crimes that our forefathers committed.If you don't want to be responsible for those crimes, maybe you shouldn't have the benefit of the material wealth they bequeathed you?That's some very broad brush you've got there BST!I would say this country's material wealth is more about the Industrial revolution than was ever about slavery, one obviously impacting on the masses with jobs, housing, welfare and education whereas the other put money into a select few pockets.I'd be happy to consider my comfortable living was more about my work ethic and the choices I've made along the way from humble beginnings than was ever about some slave trader.That doesn't mean I don't feel some angst, but I'm buggered if I'm going to feel responsible for those crimes as you say, and in no part do I feel that my comfortable living is due to crimes committed by my forefathers. You might well have worked hard for what you have. But if you happened to be descended from those slaves who were brought over here all those years ago rather than the people who owned them, it's a safe bet that you wouldn't have the same standard of living even if you'd worked twice as hard. That's the problem.It's an uncomfortable thing to face up to, but if the price for true equality is that a few white people have to feel a bit uncomfortable about their history, then that's a small price to pay.