What has happened in this country

[scawsby steve]

My Jimmy Saville impersonation used to have them rocking in the aisles.
Wouldn't dream of doing it nowadays.
Let's hope there's no skeletons in the cupboard about James Stewart, Humphrey Bogart or James Mason.
My repertoire will be in tatters!

I'll raise you my Eddie Waring and Bill McClaren, Tommy.

[BillyStubbsTears]

Hound.
There's nothing basically wrong with noting that people are from different races. Telling a joke that revolves around something specifically English is not "racist".

it is, as I say, always and everywhere about context and intention.

So no, the Young Ones sketch wasn't by any possible definition "racist" even though it used the N word.

And racism in practice is about relative power. You can be from a disenfranchised group and have racist attitudes towards people from a stronger, more powerful group, but there is far less effect in that. That's why a black person calling a white person "honky" doesn't have the same effect as a white person calling a black person a "nigger".

I'm astonished that I have to spell this out to be honest. It seems self-evident to me.

For the record, fro all the reasons I state up there, I think culling the Fawlty Towers Hitler sketch is a stupid over-reaction.

[scawsby steve]

Hound.
There's nothing basically wrong with noting that people are from different races. Telling a joke that revolves around something specifically English is not "racist".

it is, as I say, always and everywhere about context and intention.

So no, the Young Ones sketch wasn't by any possible definition "racist" even though it used the N word.

And racism in practice is about relative power. You can be from a disenfranchised group and have racist attitudes towards people from a stronger, more powerful group, but there is far less effect in that. That's why a black person calling a white person "honky" doesn't have the same effect as a white person calling a black person a "nigger".

I'm astonished that I have to spell this out to be honest. It seems self-evident to me.

For the record, fro all the reasons I state up there, I think culling the Fawlty Towers Hitler sketch is a stupid over-reaction.

A lot of common sense in that post BST. I personally feel there is a massive difference between being anti-racist, which any sane person should be, and overly politically correct.

Not that I'm saying you are OPC, but some people are.

[wilts rover]

According to Radio 4 this morning the Fawlty Towers episode was removed because they have been showing the wrong version.

In the original there is use of the 'n' word. This was removed in 2013 and a new edit has been used in repeats since then.

The one on UK Gold or whatever it is has been using the original

https://www.theguardian.com/tv-and-radio/tvandradioblog/2013/jan/23/fawlty-towers-isnt-racist-major-gowen-is

[IDM]

Some of those programmes in the early 70s were actually parodying the racists and racist attitudes..

[tommy toes]

BST
What I objected to in Fawlty Towers was not the scat about the Germans its the bit when Fawlty and the Major are discussing the W Indies cricket team.
That is completely unacceptable in this day and age.

[drfchound]

TT, it isn’t from this day and age though.
It is from around fifty years ago.

[tommy toes]

No but is still shown on TV.

[Ldr]

No but is still shown on TV.

I dont think it is 100% reasonable to judge the past by today's standards

Logically sense is to understand in context

[Ldr]

https://twitter.com/JohnCleese/status/1271478966948265986?s=19

I tend to agree

[BillyStubbsTears]

BST
What I objected to in Fawlty Towers was not the scat about the Germans its the bit when Fawlty and the Major are discussing the W Indies cricket team.
That is completely unacceptable in this day and age.

Sorry TT. I didn't remember that bit. Agreed.

[BillyStubbsTears]

No but is still shown on TV.

I dont think it is 100% reasonable to judge the past by today's standards

Logically sense is to understand in context

But it's not judging the past. It's deciding what is acceptable to watch today.

[BillyStubbsTears]

https://twitter.com/JohnCleese/status/1271478966948265986?s=19

I tend to agree

If you watch the old episodes, the laughter of the audience went through the roof when he said "coon" or "nignog".

I very much doubt they were laughing at him because they disliked his racist views.

I once went to see Bernard Manning live. Peer pressure. I'm not proud.

He was actually a very skillful comedian. Made some very cleverly constructed jokes. Which raised polite laughter. Then he said, "So this nigger..." and the place erupted.

[selby]

  Once watched a programme on him, probably after he died, but a tough cookie when younger in the Army also a sergeant I think.
  But an agent told the tale of how the top of the bill for the Scouts gang show in London had took ill at the last minute. his only get out was Bernard and although having reservations of others had to fill in with him.
   He put on a fabulous clean act that went down a bomb to most peoples surprise and brought the house down to an audience completely different to his norm.
  At the end the Agent and top brass went in to see what payment  he wanted the norm being no fee but expenses and hotel bill to about £13,000.
  When asked he said "I thought it was for the scouts and guides charity I don't want anything", and wrote them a check  for thousands of pounds having also got some of his mates on the northern club scene to also donate with him.
  Up to that programme he was still the only act that had paid to do the show.
   Also on the Parkinson show Esther Rantzen really had a go at him about his act and how he disgusted her, He never said a word while she came out with her diatribe. He just tapped Parky on the knee and said " don't worry Parky, I won't let you down" and then proceeded to absolutely kill her and took her to pieces so much that the other guest, Magnus Magnusson when Esther Rantzen asked, "what do you think" he said I agree with Bernard.
 

[BillyStubbsTears]

Selby.

That'll be this one.

https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x2nxevi

Watch it right to the end. The last minute is very instructive.

[Ldr]

Nail on head

Cleese told The Age newspaper: “If you put nonsense words into the mouth of someone you want to make fun of, you’re not broadcasting their views, you’re making fun of them. The major was an old fossil left over from decades before. We were not supporting his views, we were making fun of them. If they can’t see that – if people are too stupid to see that – what can one say?”

https://amp.theguardian.com/culture/2020/jun/12/john-cleese-attacks-stupid-removal-of-fawlty-towers-episode?__twitter_impression=true

[BillyStubbsTears]

Selby.

That'll be this one.

https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x2nxevi

Watch it right to the end. The last minute is very instructive.

I'm assuming you didn't watch it so I'll tell you what he said.

He said no-one could watch his act and think he really meant what he was saying. But he'd said earlier on, he told racist jokes because it earned him money.

So, when I saw him at Blackpool South Pier and the thousand or so people were rolling in the aisles whenever he said "Paki" or "nignog", he was putting on an act. He was playing to what he reckoned his audience wanted to hear.

He didn't think his joke where he imitated an Urdu language BBC programme, speaking in a Pakistani accent unintelligibly and interspersing in with "Social Security" and "Housing Benefit" was funny. But he was serving it up because his punters did.

And you have the gall to accuse ME of being condescending to people!

[SydneyRover]

That's a thought, I wonder if old Syd has his house parked on a bit of real estate that some poor old indigenous Ausie really owns. Would he just vacate or come over all white supremacist?
   And old Iberian benefiting from all that lovely Inca and native South American native gold. I don't blame him for not demonstrating in Madrid against it. From what I saw of the Spanish police in Barcelona last year they are not that bothered about taking a Knee themselves, but are not adverse to putting someone on their back with a sore head.
  Nothing to get upset about it wasn't police brutality the same in Paris it happened in the EU so it is OK.

You should be paying homage to this man selby.

Larry Tesler
"The inventor of cut/copy & paste, find & replace, and more, was former Xerox researcher Larry Tesler," the company tweeted. "Your workday is easier thanks to his revolutionary ideas." Mr Tesler was born in the Bronx, New York, in 1945, and studied at Stanford University in California.Feb 20, 2020

Pity no one told you about this though?

https://www.quetext.com/

[DonnyBazR0ver]

Well, it's good that we are able to discuss and debate these matters as in some countries, it isn't an option. There's no doubt Understanding history and it's context helps us to shape the future.

It's also good to debate what is perceived to be racist but actually isn't.

Probablty like many, seeing the news and the protests with acts of vandalism, shocked me. I was naive enough to think this was a spontaneous reaction to the killing of a citizen in America. Then you see how remarkably similar these protests are in cities around the globe. Then you begin to smell something.

Maybe I'm a bit slow on the uptake these days but there's much more to this than black lives matter. Of course black lives matter, all lives matter. Free speach and democracy matter. Then you realise this BLM organisation is something much more and these protests were a set up, made to look spontaneous.

I've not fully got my head around this yet and maybe I'm too weary to fully grasp it but save your debates about Manning and Cleese, (although it does no harm to challenge our own views on racism) and look at the bigger picture of what the BLM movements aims and objectives are.

[nightporter]

Selby.

That'll be this one.

https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x6lsaxz

Watch it right to the end. The last minute is very instructive.

When I hit that link all I get is wrestling.

[SydneyRover]

See bst post 166 above NP

[wilts rover]

Well, it's good that we are able to discuss and debate these matters as in some countries, it isn't an option. There's no doubt Understanding history and it's context helps us to shape the future.

It's also good to debate what is perceived to be racist but actually isn't.

Probablty like many, seeing the news and the protests with acts of vandalism, shocked me. I was naive enough to think this was a spontaneous reaction to the killing of a citizen in America. Then you see how remarkably similar these protests are in cities around the globe. Then you begin to smell something.

Maybe I'm a bit slow on the uptake these days but there's much more to this than black lives matter. Of course black lives matter, all lives matter. Free speach and democracy matter. Then you realise this BLM organisation is something much more and these protests were a set up, made to look spontaneous.

I've not fully got my head around this yet and maybe I'm too weary to fully grasp it but save your debates about Manning and Cleese, (although it does no harm to challenge our own views on racism) and look at the bigger picture of what the BLM movements aims and objectives are.

DBaz I always find that you can tell what a movement is about by how it is reported & the people that oppose it.

There were dozen's of demonstrations attended by thousands of protesters in the UK. There was more singing and dancing then fighting.

Football hooligans, Tommy Robinson making videos promising violence on the streets, racist chants, monkey noises and Nazi salutes. Some people do really want to takes us back to the 1970's.

Makes you think. Makes me think.

https://www.vice.com/en_uk/article/y3zpzy/far-right-planning-defend-statues-blm-protesters

https://www.hopenothate.org.uk/

https://www.hopenothate.org.uk/2020/06/08/football-hooligans-and-far-right-plan-london-demonstration/

[ravenrover]

Fawlty Towers episode re instated by the UKTV but with a warning

[DonnyBazR0ver]

Well, it's good that we are able to discuss and debate these matters as in some countries, it isn't an option. There's no doubt Understanding history and it's context helps us to shape the future.

It's also good to debate what is perceived to be racist but actually isn't.

Probablty like many, seeing the news and the protests with acts of vandalism, shocked me. I was naive enough to think this was a spontaneous reaction to the killing of a citizen in America. Then you see how remarkably similar these protests are in cities around the globe. Then you begin to smell something.

Maybe I'm a bit slow on the uptake these days but there's much more to this than black lives matter. Of course black lives matter, all lives matter. Free speach and democracy matter. Then you realise this BLM organisation is something much more and these protests were a set up, made to look spontaneous.

I've not fully got my head around this yet and maybe I'm too weary to fully grasp it but save your debates about Manning and Cleese, (although it does no harm to challenge our own views on racism) and look at the bigger picture of what the BLM movements aims and objectives are.

DBaz I always find that you can tell what a movement is about by how it is reported & the people that oppose it.

There were dozen's of demonstrations attended by thousands of protesters in the UK. There was more singing and dancing then fighting.

Football hooligans, Tommy Robinson making videos promising violence on the streets, racist chants, monkey noises and Nazi salutes. Some people do really want to takes us back to the 1970's.

Makes you think. Makes me think.

https://www.vice.com/en_uk/article/y3zpzy/far-right-planning-defend-statues-blm-protesters

https://www.hopenothate.org.uk/

https://www.hopenothate.org.uk/2020/06/08/football-hooligans-and-far-right-plan-london-demonstration/

Yep. Just seen a couple of other vids and it's making a bit more sense now. Another jolt to the senses to make us reassess our society. Is evolution quick enough etc??

[Glyn_Wigley]

That's a thought, I wonder if old Syd has his house parked on a bit of real estate that some poor old indigenous Ausie really owns. Would he just vacate or come over all white supremacist?
   And old Iberian benefiting from all that lovely Inca and native South American native gold. I don't blame him for not demonstrating in Madrid against it. From what I saw of the Spanish police in Barcelona last year they are not that bothered about taking a Knee themselves, but are not adverse to putting someone on their back with a sore head.
  Nothing to get upset about it wasn't police brutality the same in Paris it happened in the EU so it is OK.

You should be paying homage to this man selby.

Larry Tesler
"The inventor of cut/copy & paste, find & replace, and more, was former Xerox researcher Larry Tesler," the company tweeted. "Your workday is easier thanks to his revolutionary ideas." Mr Tesler was born in the Bronx, New York, in 1945, and studied at Stanford University in California.Feb 20, 2020

Pity no one told you about this though?

https://www.quetext.com/

It's not just that Syd, he  doesn't even read what he's copying properly. He lifted a whole load of stuff that a right-wing Brexit think tank said and tried to pass it off as something Barnier said. And despite it being uncovered he won't acknowledge it, of course. He just posts some sub-BB 'witticisms' instead.

[BillyStubbsTears]

NP.

Here's the link. When I copied the original one, it had already automatically gone on to the next video in the websites list. My mistake.

https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x2nxevi

[selby]

I am only retired, I havn't the time to be on here like you lot with nothing to do.
  Billy you keep saying you employ people, if they spent as much time during the day on social media that you do, would you employ them?

[IDM]

I havn't the time to be on here like you lot with nothing to do.
 

And you wonder why folks argue with you on here with an attitude like that.?

[Iberian Red]

Interesting to see the usual folk defending racism. The same older folk that got offended when it was pointed out the demographics of Brexit voters.
Bigoted hypocrites springs to mind.

[selby]

  Hey up IB, any statues of conquistadors you fancy pulling down in your area. Watch out for them nasty Spanish police though, The EU let them do anything they want.