What has happened in this country

[BillyStubbsTears]

They really don't get it do they?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-53093244

[phil old leake]

Billy rightly or wrongly agree or disagree like everyone else in this country he is allowed an opinion
Are we now saying that anyone who has an opinion different to anyone or any organisation charity or group can’t have a say
Opinion is what democracy is built upon

[BillyStubbsTears]

I'm saying he simply doesn't get it. Whatever his opinion, he doesn't get why people feel the need to express themselves in this way.

And he also doesn't get the history. If he did, he'd know the background and not make idiotic, crass comments like saying it looks like subjugation.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/globalnews.ca/news/3769534/martin-luther-king-jr-take-a-knee-history/amp/

Taking a knee is a sign of respect. Raab would not understand that. Read his book and see how he holds lower classes in utter contempt.

[drfchound]

BST, would you say that anyone who refused to “take the knee” is lacking in respect.

[phil old leake]

What would the reaction be if a premiership player took the James Maclean stance and insisted on  for example a shirt with “all lives matter”
Before anyone starts slating me I’m just asking the question to continue the debate
It would take a lot of bottle for anyone to do it
I totally disagree with Maclean’s stance but I do give him credit for having the nerve to do it

[BillyStubbsTears]

Hound/Phil

I'd say they are showing their beliefs. People can judge them on that.

Just like if a player starting laughing and joking during a minute silence before a game. They'd be showing their beliefs and you can judge them on that.

[RoversAlias]

BST, would you say that anyone who refused to “take the knee” is lacking in respect.

I know you aren't asking me mate but I wanted to "chime in", as it were.

For me, I don't think things like this should be mandatory because then it dilutes the intent and message. I respect everyone "taking the knee" or raising a fist or whatever it may be and I think the display at the start of the Villa game last night for instance was terrific. But people who don't do it shouldn't be vilified at all. I personally think it is a bit different to someone laughing and joking during a minute's silence as well, as that shows obvious contempt.

This is all different to what Raab has said today though He has displayed a massive amount of ignorance with that comment and clearly a contempt for the movement in comparing it to a pop culture thing. It's ridiculous for a high-ranking cabinet member - the Foreign Secretary no less - to not have any idea where this very well known symbol of racial oppression began. It is one of the main things Boris Johnson's good mate and ally Donald Trump has been banging on about for the entire duration of his Presidency!

[wilts rover]

The Tories

reticent to bend a knee for Black Lives Matter - but quick to bend planning rules for billionaire property developers and No10 'advisors'

https://twitter.com/David__Osland/status/1273611295212933122

[drfchound]

BST, would you say that anyone who refused to “take the knee” is lacking in respect.

I know you aren't asking me mate but I wanted to "chime in", as it were.

For me, I don't think things like this should be mandatory because then it dilutes the intent and message. I respect everyone "taking the knee" or raising a fist or whatever it may be and I think the display at the start of the Villa game last night for instance was terrific. But people who don't do it shouldn't be vilified at all. I personally think it is a bit different to someone laughing and joking during a minute's silence as well, as that shows obvious contempt.

This is all different to what Raab has said today though He has displayed a massive amount of ignorance with that comment and clearly a contempt for the movement in comparing it to a pop culture thing. It's ridiculous for a high-ranking cabinet member - the Foreign Secretary no less - to not have any idea where this very well known symbol of racial oppression began. It is one of the main things Boris Johnson's good mate and ally Donald Trump has been banging on about for the entire duration of his Presidency!

RA, it is good to hear another opinion on my question.
Personally, I agree with you that it shouldn’t be mandatory to kneel but I also think that in certain situations people could be classed as being racist if they didn’t do it.
I read that police officers who don’t kneel when in front of crowds of BLM supporters could become targets for abuse themselves, which in my opinion is wrong.
It could be argued that if they were in front of a right wing rally that they should do the Nazi salute.
I also go with your line of thinking on the minutes silence situation.

[BillyStubbsTears]

BST, would you say that anyone who refused to “take the knee” is lacking in respect.

I know you aren't asking me mate but I wanted to "chime in", as it were.

For me, I don't think things like this should be mandatory because then it dilutes the intent and message. I respect everyone "taking the knee" or raising a fist or whatever it may be and I think the display at the start of the Villa game last night for instance was terrific. But people who don't do it shouldn't be vilified at all. I personally think it is a bit different to someone laughing and joking during a minute's silence as well, as that shows obvious contempt.

This is all different to what Raab has said today though He has displayed a massive amount of ignorance with that comment and clearly a contempt for the movement in comparing it to a pop culture thing. It's ridiculous for a high-ranking cabinet member - the Foreign Secretary no less - to not have any idea where this very well known symbol of racial oppression began. It is one of the main things Boris Johnson's good mate and ally Donald Trump has been banging on about for the entire duration of his Presidency!

Raab is truly as thick as mince when it comes to the quality you need at the highest level.

I've noted on here before my interaction with him on a R5 call-in programme ten years or so ago when he was a humble back-bencher. He was promoting his 10 Minute Rule Bill to make strike action illegal unless 50% of members of the union (not just 50% of those voting) voted to strike. He was up on his high horse saying you undemocratic it would be to oppose that. I phoned in and pointed out that in the 2010 election, only 42% of the electorate in his constituency had voted for him and asked for his take on that. It was SUCH a blindingly obvious question, it beggars belief that he didn't have a clear, calm, logical answer. Instead, he hurriedly said "That's a different issue altogether and spoke for another 30 seconds about a different aspect of his Bill.

If someone had told me back then that a vacuous no mark like that would be the de facto PM during the height of the worst peacetime crisis for centuries, I'd have been horrified.

[wilts rover]

Where 'taking the knee' actually comes from (Martin Luther King spoiler alert)

https://twitter.com/garyyounge/status/1273593537049825280

[BillyStubbsTears]

If someone chooses not to take a knee when all their teammates are doing so, that is fine. But it is clearly a statement of belief in and of itself.

I accept that my "laughing and joking" example earlier was a poor one, but the above situation is the precise equivalent of a player choosing to sit in the dugout while the minute silence is being observed on Remembrance Day.

[BillyStubbsTears]

Well Twitter is finding some much needed backbone to smack down the bas**rds who want to tip us into a race war.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/katie-hopkins-twitter-suspended-deleted-account-blue-tick-verified-a9576041.html

[wilts rover]

So are the Tory Party. Let's see how long they both last eh

https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/tories-racism-islamophobia-naz-shah_uk_5eecd53cc5b634145cc1473a

[bpoolrover]

https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/labour-leaks-report-antisemitism-racism-diane-abbott-butler-a9468521.html?amp This is from a couple of months ago it’s not like the Labour Party are perfect

[wilts rover]

Yes, exactly the same bpool. As (checks notes) the former Chair of the Conservative Party says:

The Tory suspended this week for saying Muslim MP should go back to Pakistan was someone I raised concerns about over a year ago - I was told then she was suspended

This is the @Conservatives shambolic revolving door system of dealing with racism

https://twitter.com/SayeedaWarsi/status/1274095138466402305

For 5 years I have raised individual cases of racism within @Conservatives
 
The Party only ever responds and reacts after the media shine a spotlight on a case. And on the rare occasion individuals are suspended they are v quickly & quietly let back in Revolving door racism

https://twitter.com/SayeedaWarsi/status/1274097767774916610

Again, not me saying that, its the former Chair of the Conservative Party - you would think she would know.

[bpoolrover]

Both parties have issues clearly

[Hounslowrover]

Why only mention the Labour party ones then?

[bpoolrover]

Why only mention the Labour party ones then?

why wouldn’t you ask wilts then the same question or Sydney or any others? All you see is posts slating the tories

[wilts rover]

bpool. I haven't 'slated' the Tories.

I have reposted two tweets from the former Chair of the Conservative Party. Don't you think you should listen, take notice and explore why she has posted those things?

There is an actual thread on the Labour report btw.

[Not Now Kato]

The price of truth....
 
https://www.thenational.scot/news/18530968.theresa-villiers-axed-intelligence-committee-disloyalty/?fbclid=IwAR3hPvIqMSSDLmQ0hsStd6RvoHKOAQbAx1Fd7kll3zQ50wStDKPI-1ltZCw
 
THIS is what you Tory voters voted for!

[bpoolrover]

bpool. I haven't 'slated' the Tories.

I have reposted two tweets from the former Chair of the Conservative Party. Don't you think you should listen, take notice and explore why she has posted those things?

There is an actual thread on the Labour report btw.

I know you haven’t mate I worded it wrong sorry,you do put links up that are bad against the tories which is fine but when I put one up Hounslow questioned why I didn’t put a link of both tories and labour and I wondered why he just choose to ask me that and not you as well

[BillyStubbsTears]

I see that over-educated idiot David Starkey has revealed his true colours.


And this, from the under-educated idiot who interviewed him.
https://mobile.twitter.com/DawnHFoster/status/1278690822528151553

As the tweet says, accidentally hilarious.

Worra amoral bas**rd eh? Doing nothing when they came for the racists!

[selby]

  And yet we have a full thread on Priti Patel started  by BST where she has been called some quite vile near to the bone things.
   Is it that she and the Chancellor by some quirk of fate are the wrong sort of black, or just that they happen to be coloured but members of the Tory party? which would be a real reason to be hated according to some of you. Which is no different to hating because of race and colour.
  Is there any real difference between people seen as racial, and people who hate and belittle people because of their politics? some on here are well qualified to answer surely.

[MachoMadness]

Priti Patel isn't black.

[selby]

  Macho, as I said are her and the chancellor the wrong type of black to call it racial hate that has been posted on that thread, or is it OK to insult and call her because she is a Tory minister and her politics, and what is the difference?

[MachoMadness]

Again, neither of them are black, for one thing. So why they're being lumped in with black people I have no idea, but can probably take a good guess.

I can't see any racial hate on her thread. You can criticise people of colour and even insult them without being racist. I'm not even going to get into this idea that criticising Tories is as bad as racism. All I can say is I hope that's bait because if you genuinely believe that, then wow.

[Glyn_Wigley]

  Macho, as I said are her and the chancellor the wrong type of black to call it racial hate that has been posted on that thread, or is it OK to insult and call her because she is a Tory minister and her politics, and what is the difference?

Why are you pointing to a thread that has no racial insults in it whasoever?

[bpoolrover]

You have been scolded selby get your posts on the correct thread please

[Dagenham Rover]

Fight