Let's talk about the Wigan Athletic game

[big fat yorkshire pudding]

The short of it is we should have been out of sight, didn't get the goals and conceded a pretty self inflicted goal.

That happens. The concern was we struggled to chase the game when it got scrappy. Almost as if we rushed and panicked a little.  I think that's a disappointment today but it bodes well in some ways. The players have an expectation and will to win. So there are two ways of looking at today's negative.  Challenge for us to work on that but we have the right manager and team to do so.

[BillyStubbsTears]

Hound.

I disagree that it was "risky". It's a stupid thing to do. Always and everywhere. You do NOT play nutmegs in your own box. You put your foot through it first, which he had the option to do.

And yes, if course it's hard for us amateurs to fully know what it feels like in the moment. And yes, in isolation, I'd be more forgiving. But put it at the side of the other things we were doing in the first 15 minutes of the second half and there's a pattern. Some of our players were doing things that looked close to being contemptuous of Wigan. And it handed back the initiative to them because it didn't work. Gomes's trick fits in to that pattern.

[since-1969]

We spent months without a recognised striker until Feji came and now what do we do .. we put a unknown and untried in his place and leave Feji on the bench . Come on  DM explain please what is to be understood here !!

DM doesnt have to explain anything,he picks the team he thinks will do a job.

So did it work out then ?

[drfchound]

Hound.

I disagree that it was "risky". It's a stupid thing to do. Always and everywhere. You do NOT play nutmegs in your own box. You put your foot through it first, which he had the option to do.

And yes, if course it's hard for us amateurs to fully know what it feels like in the moment. And yes, in isolation, I'd be more forgiving. But put it at the side of the other things we were doing in the first 15 minutes of the second half and there's a pattern. Some of our players were doing things that looked close to being contemptuous of Wigan. And it handed back the initiative to them because it didn't work. Gomes's trick fits in to that pattern.

“It’s a stupid thing to do. Always and everywhere”.
You don’t really mean that.......surely.

[RoversAlias]

It looked a pretty smart thing for John-Jules to do in the oppositon box at Charlton. He ended up with a goal as a result of doing it in fact.

Seny Dieng did plenty of fancy turns in his own box last season - and they didn't always work - I don't recall him being slated for trying it on here. I'm not sure this nutmeg is the thing to fixate on from today's game, and I say this as someone who thought Gomes was poor.

[drfc1951]

We spent months without a recognised striker until Feji came and now what do we do .. we put a unknown and untried in his place and leave Feji on the bench . Come on  DM explain please what is to be understood here !!

DM doesnt have to explain anything,he picks the team he thinks will do a job.

So did it work out then ?

No it didnt today,doesnt mean he has to explain anything to you.

[Janso]

We spent months without a recognised striker until Feji came and now what do we do .. we put a unknown and untried in his place and leave Feji on the bench . Come on  DM explain please what is to be understood here !!

DM doesnt have to explain anything,he picks the team he thinks will do a job.

So did it work out then ?

No it didnt today,doesnt mean he has to explain anything to you.

Bear in mind this is a fella that posts as if he holds the club responsible for him not being able to use his season ticket in the ground.

[bpoolrover]

Am not sure what went wrong really, 1st half was very good, the next 15 mins after half time
The defence and part of the midfield were woeful it was like they had no idea how to pass or how to just go long it was 15 mins of nothing lol, so far overall in the first few games we have to be pretty positive on how things have looked

[tommy toes]

Well let's hope they learn from the experience and make sure it doesn't happen again.
From what we've seen so far this team has enormous potential and w
Ith the right attitude can win this league.

[mushRTID]

My biggest pet hate going yesterday. We were 1-0 down and didn’t even have a go. Not even the last 5 minutes leaving it all out there.

We let the game drift to the final whistle.

So bloody frustrating.

[Campsall rover]

I think sometimes when we lose we forget there are two teams out there on the pitch not just our own.
Wigan players will have had a right rollicking at half time. They came out and pressed us much higher up the pitch and stopped us playing out from the back forcing us to play hopeful passes rather than precise ones. They got the tactics right and we didn’t have a way to combat them.

There was a bit of arrogance i feel from our lads thinking we would be too good for them and got a rude awakening.
This defeat won’t do any harm at all. You learn more about yourself after a setback.
It is how you respond to it. The sign of a winning mentality is how you perform in the next game.
Plenty for DM to work on over this coming week and an opportunity to give Ferji, Amos, Williams, Butler, & possibly Hasani & a couple of others a run out at Oldham on Tuesday eve. Clear a few cobwebs and get a that winning feeling back.

[idler]

We could have Donne with a Richie Wellens or Ian Snodin type to grab the 2nd half by the scruff of the neck. Nobody really took command and galvanised the others.

[roversdude]

I totally agree with Mush - we aren’t going to win every game but we can’t to just roll over like we did second half. Besides being gutless it was like it was the first time all the players had ever met.
I was purring at some of our first half play but that second half was terrible

[DonnyBazR0ver]

In the first half when we bossed the game you wouldn't have said we need anybody. We were bossing the game. Even with Wellens or Snodin, they also had off patches. Perhaps at Cheltenham when all we had to do was win to gain Automatic all those years ago, maybe you would have said we need a Wellens type to get a grip of the game? Oh yes, he was playing!

It's about players performing not necessarily about their ability. It's more the mental side.

It's human nature. You can see it on this very forum during the game when someone says something that shouldn't and doesn't need to be said “I hope we don't come to regret the missed chances!“ instead of "Just carry on what we're doing, we're playing well“

It's allowing fear and anxiety into the thinking, which is negative.
 
That sort of thinking manifests amongst the players too and you can see it.

Sometimes there's scope for enforcing a stoppage to have a huddle when you recognise the wheels are going a bit wonky. You see teams do it all the time. Someone goes down while other players go for a drink etc.

Collectively, we were just not smart enough in the second half.

[drfchound]

It looked a pretty smart thing for John-Jules to do in the oppositon box at Charlton. He ended up with a goal as a result of doing it in fact.

Seny Dieng did plenty of fancy turns in his own box last season - and they didn't always work - I don't recall him being slated for trying it on here. I'm not sure this nutmeg is the thing to fixate on from today's game, and I say this as someone who thought Gomes was poor.

That post of yours could have been written by me RA.
Exactly my thoughts.

[BillyStubbsTears]

It looked a pretty smart thing for John-Jules to do in the oppositon box at Charlton. He ended up with a goal as a result of doing it in fact.

Seny Dieng did plenty of fancy turns in his own box last season - and they didn't always work - I don't recall him being slated for trying it on here. I'm not sure this nutmeg is the thing to fixate on from today's game, and I say this as someone who thought Gomes was poor.

That post of yours could have been written by me RA.
Exactly my thoughts.

A case study in the way that opinions get misinterpreted  on-line.

For the record, when I said "It's a stupid thing to do. Always and everywhere. You do NOT play nutmegs in your own box." it never dawned on me that it would be interpreted as "you do not play nutmegs anywhere on the pitch."

The "Always and everywhere" comment meant "at all times and anywhere in the football world, in all contexts, playing nutmegs in your own box is stupid." I thought that was obvious, but I guess not.

As for Dieng "not getting slated on here"...

[Colemans Left Hook]

on the subject of stupidity  just watch Lincoln conceed this first goal

https://www.skysports.com/watch/video/sports/football/teams/lincolncity/12089150/blackpool-2-3-lincoln

i totally hate "chicken" football   as i call it.

what would this site have been like if we had conceeded a goal like that ?

[BillyStubbsTears]

CLH.
Absolutely nothing wrong with the principle of what Lincoln were doing there. They just f**ked up the implementation.

That sort of move will go wrong one time in ten or twenty. The flip side is that in the other 9 or 19 times, it stretches the opposition formation. On balance, it is worth it.

A nutmeg in a crowded box will go wrong 50% of the time.

[sha66y]

We spent months without a recognised striker until Feji came and now what do we do .. we put a unknown and untried in his place and leave Feji on the bench . Come on  DM explain please what is to be understood here !!

DM doesnt have to explain anything,he picks the team he thinks will do a job.

So did it work out then ?

Not in this instance no.!
However the team DM picked was more than capable of getting a result as the first half would testify....the players he picked more than controlled every part of the pitch...but the chances that were created were not executed,

DM can only do so much, 

[Alan Southstand]

To be honest, I thought we saw the Gomes of last season and not, so far, this one. He was doing his impression of a headless chicken for most of the game and it’s why we need someone who’s a lot more disciplined to partner Ben.

Wigan definitely pressed us more second half and it almost dismantled our front 3 midfielders, as Richards was constantly covering for Gomes. Copps and Taylor are not renowned for tracking back, so we lost all that creativity that we had in abundance first half. We should have been way beyond anything Wigan could have thrown at us in the second half, but we were so wasteful in front of goal.

It’s one thing to say we’re not ruthless enough, but putting that into practice is down to the players more than the manager. Frustrating watching and a few of the players suffered with the same thing, second half.

[NickDRFC]

I don’t think we were really that wasteful yesterday - I think it was more that we were dominant without creating that many clear cut chances. The standout was probably Taylor’s but I don’t think it’s the sitter it’s been made out to be - he was still 12 yards out, on his weaker foot, a defender still between him and the goal and he was only a whisker wide.

[danumdon]

I don’t think we were really that wasteful yesterday - I think it was more that we were dominant without creating that many clear cut chances. The standout was probably Taylor’s but I don’t think it’s the sitter it’s been made out to be - he was still 12 yards out, on his weaker foot, a defender still between him and the goal and he was only a whisker wide.

But this was our issue, we had more than a handful of good scoring chances and were not clinical enough, Wigan had one chance in the second half and took it. It’s this sharpness which we seem to struggle with.  All the teams who will be challenging at the top this season would of converted at least one of the chances. I would think this will be something that DM will be pressing to the squad this week.

[Filo]

I don’t think we were really that wasteful yesterday - I think it was more that we were dominant without creating that many clear cut chances. The standout was probably Taylor’s but I don’t think it’s the sitter it’s been made out to be - he was still 12 yards out, on his weaker foot, a defender still between him and the goal and he was only a whisker wide.

But this was our issue, we had more than a handful of good scoring chances and were not clinical enough, Wigan had one chance in the second half and took it. It’s this sharpness which we seem to struggle with.  All the teams who will be challenging at the top this season would of converted at least one of the chances. I would think this will be something that DM will be pressing to the squad this week.

They had 2 chances, but your point still stands

[drfchound]

on the subject of stupidity  just watch Lincoln conceed this first goal

https://www.skysports.com/watch/video/sports/football/teams/lincolncity/12089150/blackpool-2-3-lincoln

i totally hate "chicken" football   as i call it.

what would this site have been like if we had conceeded a goal like that ?

TBH mate I think that had there would have been hell on here had we conceded the two pens in the way that happened on that clip plus the other three goals as well.

[Colemans Left Hook]

CLH.
Absolutely nothing wrong with the principle of what Lincoln were doing there. They just f**ked up the implementation.

That sort of move will go wrong one time in ten or twenty. The flip side is that in the other 9 or 19 times, it stretches the opposition formation. On balance, it is worth it.

A nutmeg in a crowded box will go wrong 50% of the time.

just been listening to the Man U Tottenham match as it seems Man U just did a "Lincoln" and gave a goal away to make it 3-1

 the commentator has just said " what is this obsession about playing out from the back ..........."


now 1-4 

[drfchound]

It looked a pretty smart thing for John-Jules to do in the oppositon box at Charlton. He ended up with a goal as a result of doing it in fact.

Seny Dieng did plenty of fancy turns in his own box last season - and they didn't always work - I don't recall him being slated for trying it on here. I'm not sure this nutmeg is the thing to fixate on from today's game, and I say this as someone who thought Gomes was poor.

That post of yours could have been written by me RA.
Exactly my thoughts.

A case study in the way that opinions get misinterpreted  on-line.

For the record, when I said "It's a stupid thing to do. Always and everywhere. You do NOT play nutmegs in your own box." it never dawned on me that it would be interpreted as "you do not play nutmegs anywhere on the pitch."

The "Always and everywhere" comment meant "at all times and anywhere in the football world, in all contexts, playing nutmegs in your own box is stupid." I thought that was obvious, but I guess not.

As for Dieng "not getting slated on here"...

Your comment might have been obvious to you but it wasn’t to me or RA.
As for you banging on about the nutmeg that Gomes did, no one has said it wasn’t risky but as I pointed out, it was probably instinctive and he may not have seen another option in the millisecond that he had to make his decision.
To reiterate what I said earlier, it is an easy game for those watching.

[selby]

  Bpoolrover, they played 10 to fifteen yards further up the field at the back and played a higher press which we didn't cope with in the second half.
  Our front men came back with them giving our players no outball and Richards and Gomes were continually caught with the ball or rushed into poor passes.
  We continued to play the ball to feet to the forwards, who if they collected the ball ran into the defender and never held the ball up, when we needed to play the ball over the top of their back line into the space created between the edge of their area and the back line and use the pace advantage we had. We never turned them once and Naismith with no pace was the best player on the park second half.

[BillyStubbsTears]

Hound.

I can't legislate for you and RA seeing me say "You do not play nutmegs in your own box" and deciding I'm saying "you do not play nutmegs at all."

Whether it was instinctive, I really don't know. I'm just wracking my brains to think of any time I've ever seen s defender nutmeg a striker in a crowded box. And I'm drawing a blank. There must have been countless moments when a nutmeg was a technical possibility. Yet it just doesn't happen. So even if there is an instinct to do it, the overwhelming majority of defenders over-ride that.

I'll stick with my take I think. "Risky" is far too generous. It was an utterly stupid thing to do.

[ravenrover]

I guess if Du Bryne or any other top midfielder had done it people would be saying how brilliant, skillfull,confident, quality it was, but because it was L1 mediocre player it was risky and should never be done, how strange

[drfchound]

I guess if Du Bryne or any other top midfielder had done it people would be saying how brilliant, skillfull,confident, quality it was, but because it was L1 mediocre player it was risky and should never be done, how strange

Bang on raven.
Anyway it must be stupid coz BST says so.