Why can't the club keep managers?

[Padge_DRFC]

We have some great supporters don’t we.

Seriously I don’t know why they bother. We are such a basket case of a club aren’t we.

Give me strength.    Go and support Wednesday then you would seriously have something to complain about.

Here we go criteria for being a top supporter incoming.

[Campsall rover]

We have some great supporters don’t we.

Seriously I don’t know why they bother. We are such a basket case of a club aren’t we.

Give me strength.    Go and support Wednesday then you would seriously have something to complain about.

I’ve supported the club since 1986; been a season ticket holder and seen a lot Of ups and downs. I have a right to express my views.

A Football club, like any other business, will struggle to progress and prosper without stability and brand loyalty. I think you’d struggle to identify any club or business that has achieved without those two foundations.

Football is about being able to identify with the brand, with players and managers and getting behind “your team”.

Given the business model Doncaster are currently employing what is it that your actually supporting?

Whilst you may have valid counter argument it’s a reality that the model is making me
Fall out of love with the club and I doubt that I’m the only one. It’s easy to say go and support another club; I couldn’t do that but something is going wrong to make supporters feel so disenfranchised.

Disenfranchised.  We have more supporter engagement at DRFC than probably 95% of clubs.
We are constantly in the top 3/4 clubs in the EFL for being one of the top family friendly clubs with engagement with the fans being at the forefront.
So I really don’t know what on earth makes you feel disenfranchised.

Please explain what brand should we be. We are a football league club. That is our brand isn’t it.

[sedwardsdrfc]

Maybe we can't keep managers because we are always funded well enough, with a good structure, that means we are pushing playoffs every year. And with young managers playing good football it naturally attracts attention from clubs higher up who can't afford a tried and tested Championship manager.

 

[Campsall rover]

We have some great supporters don’t we.

Seriously I don’t know why they bother. We are such a basket case of a club aren’t we.

Give me strength.    Go and support Wednesday then you would seriously have something to complain about.

Here we go criteria for being a top supporter incoming.

What on earth are you talking about Padge.
Try and post something constructive just for once in your life.

[aidanstu]

We have some great supporters don’t we.

Seriously I don’t know why they bother. We are such a basket case of a club aren’t we.

Give me strength.    Go and support Wednesday then you would seriously have something to complain about.

I’ve supported the club since 1986; been a season ticket holder and seen a lot Of ups and downs. I have a right to express my views.

A Football club, like any other business, will struggle to progress and prosper without stability and brand loyalty. I think you’d struggle to identify any club or business that has achieved without those two foundations.

Football is about being able to identify with the brand, with players and managers and getting behind “your team”.

Given the business model Doncaster are currently employing what is it that your actually supporting?

Whilst you may have valid counter argument it’s a reality that the model is making me
Fall out of love with the club and I doubt that I’m the only one. It’s easy to say go and support another club; I couldn’t do that but something is going wrong to make supporters feel so disenfranchised.

Disenfranchised.  We have more supporter engagement at DRFC than probably 95% of clubs.
We are constantly in the top 3/4 clubs in the EFL for being one of the top family friendly clubs with engagement with the fans being at the forefront.
So I really don’t know what on earth makes you feel disenfranchised.

Please explain what brand should we be. We are a football league club. That is our brand isn’t it.

I think you’ve taken that out of context; the club do a great job of fan engagement on the community side of things and I can’t fault it on that front.

I made an earlier post on this thread which spoke about the shortermism of the signings and in the pair you replied to explained how that made me feel disenfranchised as a supporter.

I also explained what brand I’d like to see around developing youth and building a squad of our own so we were not supporting a pretty much entirely different group of players each year. If you can’t understand that we are going to have to agree to disagree.

For me the current short term thinking is one step removed from “the experiment” and I struggle to enjoy it.

[scawsby steve]

Longer contracts; do people mean like the 3 year contracts Fergie used to dish out to players like Evina and Middleton and others? That went well didn't it?

Or the policy of developing our own youngsters? How many of them have done well since coming through our academy?

I'd love to see the faces of some of you board bashers if TB and GB ever left.

[DearneValleyRover]

Giving a manager a five year contract wouldn’t stop them from leaving if a bigger club came calling nor give us anymore compensation. What it would do is cost us more to remove them if we needed to.

[aidanstu]

Longer contracts; do people mean like the 3 year contracts Fergie used to dish out to players like Evina and Middleton and others? That went well didn't it?

Or the policy of developing our own youngsters? How many of them have done well since coming through our academy?

I'd love to see the faces of some of you board bashers if TB and GB ever left.

Instead of getting defensive please name we one club or business that has ever benefited, developed or achieved long term success from taking a similar approach.

Through our failure to offer longer contracts we have lost loads of players in the past few years that would and should have demanded a decent fee. We have also had a few decent youngsters who would have done better if there squad places were not taken up by an over reliance on loan signings; waters being one very recent example.

Sometime I get the sense people want to argue for the sake of arguing without being able to rationalise what they talking about. What would you rather support? A team that’s built or one that’s borrowed?

[aidanstu]

Giving a manager a five year contract wouldn’t stop them from leaving if a bigger club came calling nor give us anymore compensation. What it would do is cost us more to remove them if we needed to.

Are you seriously saying that a manger on a 1 year contract would demand the same compensation as if he had 5 years. Come on your better than that.

The board take an age to identify managerial replacements and rarely have they got it wrong to be fair; they should back themselves a bit and give their chosen man a contract that they feel offers stability and commitment.

[DearneValleyRover]

Giving a manager a five year contract wouldn’t stop them from leaving if a bigger club came calling nor give us anymore compensation. What it would do is cost us more to remove them if we needed to.

Are you seriously saying that a manger on a 1 year contract would demand the same compensation as if he had 5 years. Come on your better than that.

The board take an age to identify managerial replacements and rarely have they got it wrong to be fair; they should back themselves a bit and give their chosen man a contract that they feel offers stability and commitment.

The fact of the matter is that it’s true

[Michael Gibson]

 Well stated mate and fully agree, the board’s unwillingness to acknowledge issues like Ferguson and McCann going in similar circumstances says it all, both had a dig at the owners and Baldwin, no smoke without fire especially third time round, I agree Moore’s bang out of order but when you’ve a license to do whatever it doesn’t matter, a contract with a 300k release clause would have beneficial

[aidanstu]

Giving a manager a five year contract wouldn’t stop them from leaving if a bigger club came calling nor give us anymore compensation. What it would do is cost us more to remove them if we needed to.

Are you seriously saying that a manger on a 1 year contract would demand the same compensation as if he had 5 years. Come on your better than that.

The board take an age to identify managerial replacements and rarely have they got it wrong to be fair; they should back themselves a bit and give their chosen man a contract that they feel offers stability and commitment.

The fact of the matter is that it’s true

According to what? You’re talking nonsense.

[DonnyBazR0ver]

Longer contracts; do people mean like the 3 year contracts Fergie used to dish out to players like Evina and Middleton and others? That went well didn't it?

Or the policy of developing our own youngsters? How many of them have done well since coming through our academy?

I'd love to see the faces of some of you board bashers if TB and GB ever left.

Instead of getting defensive please name we one club or business that has ever benefited, developed or achieved long term success from taking a similar approach.

Through our failure to offer longer contracts we have lost loads of players in the past few years that would and should have demanded a decent fee. We have also had a few decent youngsters who would have done better if there squad places were not taken up by an over reliance on loan signings; waters being one very recent example.

Sometime I get the sense people want to argue for the sake of arguing without being able to rationalise what they talking about. What would you rather support? A team that’s built or one that’s borrowed?

All sounds great and highly desirable but we live in different times now where the market for players is so much different.

I really cannot see any manager refusing to use the loan market to the maximum, unless we were blessed with an exceptional crop of youngsters.

To build that sort of development, we would require even further significant investment, which would detract from the money put into the first team squad. You also need stability which is something we've been deprived of recently and then you add the Covid situation on top of that too. There may be a degree of catch 22 with it that's true.

We've hired good managers with part of the attraction is being a club that allows the manager to get on with it and not be constrained by interference from above.

But going back to the issue of loans, it's just a no brainer not to take advantage of some of the talent that is being offered to you. Weigh that financially against the outlay for the infrastructure that produces similar talent year on year. The difference would be vast and a risk we're just not in a position to take.

Are you telling me you would not take advantage of the loan system?

And by the way, the club don't dictate to the manager whether he should or shouldn't utilise the loan market.

[aidanstu]

Longer contracts; do people mean like the 3 year contracts Fergie used to dish out to players like Evina and Middleton and others? That went well didn't it?

Or the policy of developing our own youngsters? How many of them have done well since coming through our academy?

I'd love to see the faces of some of you board bashers if TB and GB ever left.

Instead of getting defensive please name we one club or business that has ever benefited, developed or achieved long term success from taking a similar approach.

Through our failure to offer longer contracts we have lost loads of players in the past few years that would and should have demanded a decent fee. We have also had a few decent youngsters who would have done better if there squad places were not taken up by an over reliance on loan signings; waters being one very recent example.

Sometime I get the sense people want to argue for the sake of arguing without being able to rationalise what they talking about. What would you rather support? A team that’s built or one that’s borrowed?

All sounds great and highly desirable but we live in different times now where the market for players is so much different.

I really cannot see any manager refusing to use the loan market to the maximum, unless we were blessed with an exceptional crop of youngsters.

To build that sort of development, we would require even further significant investment, which would detract from the money put into the first team squad. You also need stability which is something we've been deprived of recently and then you add the Covid situation on top of that too. There may be a degree of catch 22 with it that's true.

We've hired good managers with part of the attraction is being a club that allows the manager to get on with it and not be constrained by interference from above.

But going back to the issue of loans, it's just a no brainer not to take advantage of some of the talent that is being offered to you. Weigh that financially against the outlay for the infrastructure that produces similar talent year on year. The difference would be vast and a risk we're just not in a position to take.

Are you telling me you would not take advantage of the loan system?

I respect that reply; I’m not saying I wouldn’t or we shouldn’t but I do think we are over reliant upon it and it stiffly the development of our own players.

Take Louis Jones for example; great young keeper, never put a foot wrong but can’t get a sniff of the first team, max waters was the same and I think Beeston and Middleton could have really kicked on given half a chance.

[Chris Black come back]

Well stated mate and fully agree, the board’s unwillingness to acknowledge issues like Ferguson and McCann going in similar circumstances says it all, both had a dig at the owners and Baldwin, no smoke without fire especially third time round, I agree Moore’s bang out of order but when you’ve a license to do whatever it doesn’t matter, a contract with a 300k release clause would have beneficial

The only criticism of the board with Ferguson is that they didn't show him the door after his shambolic performance in the 2015/16 season. Some talent recruitment aside, he was a bad manager for us and the board arguably indulged him too much. Totally catastrophic end to 2015/16 with performances that would shame a school football team. 16 games without a win and 12 defeats within that, including 7 straight defeats during which we scored 3 goals. This was League One, not Championship. God only knows how he hung on to his job that close season.

[Campsall rover]

We have some great supporters don’t we.

Seriously I don’t know why they bother. We are such a basket case of a club aren’t we.

Give me strength.    Go and support Wednesday then you would seriously have something to complain about.

I’ve supported the club since 1986; been a season ticket holder and seen a lot Of ups and downs. I have a right to express my views.

A Football club, like any other business, will struggle to progress and prosper without stability and brand loyalty. I think you’d struggle to identify any club or business that has achieved without those two foundations.

Football is about being able to identify with the brand, with players and managers and getting behind “your team”.

Given the business model Doncaster are currently employing what is it that your actually supporting?

Whilst you may have valid counter argument it’s a reality that the model is making me
Fall out of love with the club and I doubt that I’m the only one. It’s easy to say go and support another club; I couldn’t do that but something is going wrong to make supporters feel so disenfranchised.

Disenfranchised.  We have more supporter engagement at DRFC than probably 95% of clubs.
We are constantly in the top 3/4 clubs in the EFL for being one of the top family friendly clubs with engagement with the fans being at the forefront.
So I really don’t know what on earth makes you feel disenfranchised.

Please explain what brand should we be. We are a football league club. That is our brand isn’t it.

I think you’ve taken that out of context; the club do a great job of fan engagement on the community side of things and I can’t fault it on that front.

I made an earlier post on this thread which spoke about the shortermism of the signings and in the pair you replied to explained how that made me feel disenfranchised as a supporter.

I also explained what brand I’d like to see around developing youth and building a squad of our own so we were not supporting a pretty much entirely different group of players each year. If you can’t understand that we are going to have to agree to disagree.

For me the current short term thinking is one step removed from “the experiment” and I struggle to enjoy it.

This is absolutely nothing remotely like the “experiment”
Most clubs have 3/4/5 loan players in their squads. It is not just us. Sorry i really don’t see the problem with it as long as you get the right characters coming to play for us.
There is a serious emphasis on the youth policy at the club also.which has to be the way forward.
I wasn’t having a go at you specifically don’t know whu you assumed I was but seriously there are a few people that take every opportunity to slag the club off.
We are one of the best run clubs in the entire EFL and that showed in the Jan transfer window when we were recruiting and many clubs were off loading players to get their wage bills down.
3/4/5 year contracts to Managers is a sure way to financial disaster if you need to get rid of your manager.
If you can’t understand that then we will as you sarcastically said have to agree to disagree.

[DonnyBazR0ver]

Longer contracts; do people mean like the 3 year contracts Fergie used to dish out to players like Evina and Middleton and others? That went well didn't it?

Or the policy of developing our own youngsters? How many of them have done well since coming through our academy?

I'd love to see the faces of some of you board bashers if TB and GB ever left.

Instead of getting defensive please name we one club or business that has ever benefited, developed or achieved long term success from taking a similar approach.

Through our failure to offer longer contracts we have lost loads of players in the past few years that would and should have demanded a decent fee. We have also had a few decent youngsters who would have done better if there squad places were not taken up by an over reliance on loan signings; waters being one very recent example.

Sometime I get the sense people want to argue for the sake of arguing without being able to rationalise what they talking about. What would you rather support? A team that’s built or one that’s borrowed?

All sounds great and highly desirable but we live in different times now where the market for players is so much different.

I really cannot see any manager refusing to use the loan market to the maximum, unless we were blessed with an exceptional crop of youngsters.

To build that sort of development, we would require even further significant investment, which would detract from the money put into the first team squad. You also need stability which is something we've been deprived of recently and then you add the Covid situation on top of that too. There may be a degree of catch 22 with it that's true.

We've hired good managers with part of the attraction is being a club that allows the manager to get on with it and not be constrained by interference from above.

But going back to the issue of loans, it's just a no brainer not to take advantage of some of the talent that is being offered to you. Weigh that financially against the outlay for the infrastructure that produces similar talent year on year. The difference would be vast and a risk we're just not in a position to take.

Are you telling me you would not take advantage of the loan system?

I respect that reply; I’m not saying I wouldn’t or we shouldn’t but I do think we are over reliant upon it and it stiffly the development of our own players.

Take Louis Jones for example; great young keeper, never put a foot wrong but can’t get a sniff of the first team, max waters was the same and I think Beeston and Middleton could have really kicked on given half a chance.

Can't agree with you about Beestin or Middleton but that's just an opinion. So, should the board be dictating to the manager who to pick?

If successive managers have opted ultimately to bring in loans, having seen first hand the likes of Middleton, Beestin, Jones, Watters Greaves etc then that comes down to the managers judgement.

[sedwardsdrfc]

Nothing wrong with the contract lengths we offer only criticism is we need to renew deals before they get too close to running out but thats the manager's call.

[Getridorit]

I think the answer is simple; we are reaping what we sow.

We are a small club with a very limited budget that has a recruitment strategy of shortermism.

As a manager coming in you are going to want to use the clubs as a stepping stone; what else can you do when you only have a one year contract? Any employee would jump ship for a more lucrative, longer term contract. I don't blame DM at all.

What compounds the situation is that no manger since SOD left has been given the resources to build a team, the short term contracts and overuse of the loan systems simply don't allow it to happen. In essence it's a rebuilding job every year/ every transfer window and an environment that any manager os going to find it difficult to thrive in.

The model that the club are employing maybe financially viable but it is one that has seen our last 2 two managers leave, countless players use the revolving door of the club and me, as a lifetime supporter, start to lose interest with feelings of disassociation. For me the club need to re-think this strategy and either start to develop youth properly or accumulate a squad of our own.

Good luck to Moore, he is certainly no snake as has been suggested elsewhere on this thread.

It may be financially viable, and as you say it doesn't work in a football perspective.

Really could do with a football person on the board I think

A football person on the board?

What does that mean, and what difference would that make? What constitutes a football person?

I just think its an easy statement to trot out, but it means nothing.

Means nothing?
But yet you have said today there have been discussions in the past about a director of football?

Besides, it makes a world of difference to have a balanced board, to bounce ideas off each other.
A successful football board needs people who bleed football, and know the game inside out. As well as business people.

You need that balance

[Getridorit]

We have some great supporters don’t we.

Seriously I don’t know why they bother. We are such a basket case of a club aren’t we.

Give me strength.    Go and support Wednesday then you would seriously have something to complain about.

Get a grip of yourself man, people are allowed to express concern if they want

[Campsall rover]

Giving a manager a five year contract wouldn’t stop them from leaving if a bigger club came calling nor give us anymore compensation. What it would do is cost us more to remove them if we needed to.

Are you seriously saying that a manger on a 1 year contract would demand the same compensation as if he had 5 years. Come on your better than that.

The board take an age to identify managerial replacements and rarely have they got it wrong to be fair; they should back themselves a bit and give their chosen man a contract that they feel offers stability and commitment.

We have terrible record of sacking managers at Rovers. Come on you are talking rubbish now.
Any incoming manager knows this board will give the manager more time than 95% of all other clubs in the entire EFL
If they want to walk they will walk whatever length of contract they have.
We have all seen what long term contracts do to clubs.  May end up in administration but nearly all end up in serious debt.
We have a board a bit more savvy than that and we should all be very thankful for that. You only need to look at Wigan Athletic to see what happens when you run the club like a sweet shop.

[Getridorit]

Giving a manager a five year contract wouldn’t stop them from leaving if a bigger club came calling nor give us anymore compensation. What it would do is cost us more to remove them if we needed to.

The club pride themselves on a stringent recruitment process, and to be fair they have done well on the last 2 occasions.
They should show courage and back their man with a longer contract to start with, it immediately starts with a settled stable base.
When said manager does well, because they got the right man after the stringent process, then other clubs would think twice about approaching him bacause it would cost alot more, and wouldn't be so easy to poach him.

[Campsall rover]

We have some great supporters don’t we.

Seriously I don’t know why they bother. We are such a basket case of a club aren’t we.

Give me strength.    Go and support Wednesday then you would seriously have something to complain about.

Get a grip of yourself man, people are allowed to express concern if they want

Concerns and slagging off the way the club is run are 2 totally different things.
I think you need to get a grip on reality and the financial world football is living in at the present.

[colincramb]

I think it’s quite simple.

A bigger club, in a higher league has come in for him. Couple that with probably at least doubling his wages.

I dare say most people in his position would probably leave

[Getridorit]

We have some great supporters don’t we.

Seriously I don’t know why they bother. We are such a basket case of a club aren’t we.

Give me strength.    Go and support Wednesday then you would seriously have something to complain about.

Get a grip of yourself man, people are allowed to express concern if they want

Concerns and slagging off the way the club is run are 2 totally different things.
I think you need to get a grip on reality and the financial world football is living in at the present.

Whos "sagging off" as you put it?
I only see concerns being raised articulately.
The only "sagging off" is from YOU by moaning at the ones raising valid concerns.

[Getridorit]

Giving a manager a five year contract wouldn’t stop them from leaving if a bigger club came calling nor give us anymore compensation. What it would do is cost us more to remove them if we needed to.

Are you seriously saying that a manger on a 1 year contract would demand the same compensation as if he had 5 years. Come on your better than that.

The board take an age to identify managerial replacements and rarely have they got it wrong to be fair; they should back themselves a bit and give their chosen man a contract that they feel offers stability and commitment.

The fact of the matter is that it’s true

Eh?! It's exactly true!!!

[DearneValleyRover]

Giving a manager a five year contract wouldn’t stop them from leaving if a bigger club came calling nor give us anymore compensation. What it would do is cost us more to remove them if we needed to.

The club pride themselves on a stringent recruitment process, and to be fair they have done well on the last 2 occasions.
They should show courage and back their man with a longer contract to start with, it immediately starts with a settled stable base.
When said manager does well, because they got the right man after the stringent process, then other clubs would think twice about approaching him bacause it would cost alot more, and wouldn't be so easy to poach him.

Ask the Ipswich fans how that’s worked out with Lambert?

[Campsall rover]

We have some great supporters don%u2019t we.

Seriously I don%u2019t know why they bother. We are such a basket case of a club aren%u2019t we.

Give me strength.    Go and support Wednesday then you would seriously have something to complain about.

Get a grip of yourself man, people are allowed to express concern if they want

Concerns and slagging off the way the club is run are 2 totally different things.
I think you need to get a grip on reality and the financial world football is living in at the present.

Whos "sagging off" as you put it?
I only see concerns being raised articulately.
The only "sagging off" is from YOU by moaning at the ones raising valid concerns.

Have you read all the posts on this site today. Obviously not.

Seriously though do you think our club is being mis managed by our board.

Tell you what they may not be perfect ( but what is perfect ) but there are a lot of people will get a shock if they called it a day. Without them and their 2 million or so year after year contribution to balance the books we would not have a club at all.
Careful for what you wish for. That is all I am saying.  Just look around at the state of dozens of other clubs and then look at us.

[scawsby steve]

Longer contracts; do people mean like the 3 year contracts Fergie used to dish out to players like Evina and Middleton and others? That went well didn't it?

Or the policy of developing our own youngsters? How many of them have done well since coming through our academy?

I'd love to see the faces of some of you board bashers if TB and GB ever left.

Instead of getting defensive please name we one club or business that has ever benefited, developed or achieved long term success from taking a similar approach.

Through our failure to offer longer contracts we have lost loads of players in the past few years that would and should have demanded a decent fee. We have also had a few decent youngsters who would have done better if there squad places were not taken up by an over reliance on loan signings; waters being one very recent example.

Sometime I get the sense people want to argue for the sake of arguing without being able to rationalise what they talking about. What would you rather support? A team that’s built or one that’s borrowed?

OK, Mr Rationale; who are these decent youngsters you're talking about? I've noticed in a post further down you talk about how good Middleton could have been given a chance. That's when you lost all credibility to me regarding football knowledge. Middleton had lots of chances with us, and was absolute tripe, and he's done nothing in football since.

Still, it would have been better to have the likes of him in the team than the likes of Kane, Wilks, Sims, and Smith.

[Getridorit]

Giving a manager a five year contract wouldn’t stop them from leaving if a bigger club came calling nor give us anymore compensation. What it would do is cost us more to remove them if we needed to.

The club pride themselves on a stringent recruitment process, and to be fair they have done well on the last 2 occasions.
They should show courage and back their man with a longer contract to start with, it immediately starts with a settled stable base.
When said manager does well, because they got the right man after the stringent process, then other clubs would think twice about approaching him bacause it would cost alot more, and wouldn't be so easy to poach him.

Ask the Ipswich fans how that’s worked out with Lambert?

How stringent was their recruitment process?
Is that the same lambert who's team was on a good run of form, and just beat rovers?