Why can't the club keep managers?

[Getridorit]

Longer contracts; do people mean like the 3 year contracts Fergie used to dish out to players like Evina and Middleton and others? That went well didn't it?

Or the policy of developing our own youngsters? How many of them have done well since coming through our academy?

I'd love to see the faces of some of you board bashers if TB and GB ever left.

Instead of getting defensive please name we one club or business that has ever benefited, developed or achieved long term success from taking a similar approach.

Through our failure to offer longer contracts we have lost loads of players in the past few years that would and should have demanded a decent fee. We have also had a few decent youngsters who would have done better if there squad places were not taken up by an over reliance on loan signings; waters being one very recent example.

Sometime I get the sense people want to argue for the sake of arguing without being able to rationalise what they talking about. What would you rather support? A team that’s built or one that’s borrowed?

OK, Mr Rationale; who are these decent youngsters you're talking about? I've noticed in a post further down you talk about how good Middleton could have been given a chance. That's when you lost all credibility to me regarding football knowledge. Middleton had lots of chances with us, and was absolute tripe, and he's done nothing in football since.

Still, it would have been better to have the likes of him in the team than the likes of Kane, Wilks, Sims, and Smith.

Middleton had a great game against Stoke in the FA cup.
He was unfairly and unfathomably dropped for the next game. THAT was the start of our downfall that led to relegation

[BobG]

Really....

BobG

[Getridorit]

We have some great supporters don%u2019t we.

Seriously I don%u2019t know why they bother. We are such a basket case of a club aren%u2019t we.

Give me strength.    Go and support Wednesday then you would seriously have something to complain about.

Get a grip of yourself man, people are allowed to express concern if they want

Concerns and slagging off the way the club is run are 2 totally different things.
I think you need to get a grip on reality and the financial world football is living in at the present.

Whos "sagging off" as you put it?
I only see concerns being raised articulately.
The only "sagging off" is from YOU by moaning at the ones raising valid concerns.

Have you read all the posts on this site today. Obviously not.

Seriously though do you think our club is being mis managed by our board.

Tell you what they may not be perfect ( but what is perfect ) but there are a lot of people will get a shock if they called it a day. Without them and their 2 million or so year after year contribution to balance the books we would not have a club at all.
Careful for what you wish for. That is all I am saying.  Just look around at the state of dozens of other clubs and then look at us.

I've read most, on here and on social media.
The vast majority are sensible and reasoned.
Certainly not "sagging off" as you put it.

As for my opinion on the board. I don't think they are doing too badly, but I think they need help from someone more knowledgeable in the game.

[Campsall rover]

Longer contracts; do people mean like the 3 year contracts Fergie used to dish out to players like Evina and Middleton and others? That went well didn't it?

Or the policy of developing our own youngsters? How many of them have done well since coming through our academy?

I'd love to see the faces of some of you board bashers if TB and GB ever left.

Instead of getting defensive please name we one club or business that has ever benefited, developed or achieved long term success from taking a similar approach.

Through our failure to offer longer contracts we have lost loads of players in the past few years that would and should have demanded a decent fee. We have also had a few decent youngsters who would have done better if there squad places were not taken up by an over reliance on loan signings; waters being one very recent example.

Sometime I get the sense people want to argue for the sake of arguing without being able to rationalise what they talking about. What would you rather support? A team that%u2019s built or one that%u2019s borrowed?

OK, Mr Rationale; who are these decent youngsters you're talking about? I've noticed in a post further down you talk about how good Middleton could have been given a chance. That's when you lost all credibility to me regarding football knowledge. Middleton had lots of chances with us, and was absolute tripe, and he's done nothing in football since.

Still, it would have been better to have the likes of him in the team than the likes of Kane, Wilks, Sims, and Smith.

Middleton had a great game against Stoke in the FA cup.
He was unfairly and unfathomably dropped for the next game. THAT was the start of our downfall that led to relegation

What got us relegated was DFs inability to see 3 centre backs and wing backs was a disaster, constantly putting square pegs into round holes and his total inability to man manage the team.
To blame it on Middleton not playing is well, I do not have the right words.

[pib]

I think it’s quite simple.

A bigger club, in a higher league has come in for him. Couple that with probably at least doubling his wages.

I dare say most people in his position would probably leave

Not just that, but I think also the last few appointments we have made have been generally upwardly mobile young managers, who are probably in their own minds yet to reach their peak in the game.

I would imagine that if we were appointing journeyman managers who are on the slide, this sort of scenario wouldn't happen to us quite as readily. But I suspect that if we did that, the club would get a lot of criticism levelled at them anyway for going for journeymen who are on their way down. So either way, they can't really win I don't think.

[BobG]

pib - another intelligent observation that completely passes by those folk with mouths so wide it leaves room for neither eyes nor brain.

BobG

[Campsall rover]

pib - another intelligent observation that completely passes by those folk with mouths so wide it leaves room for neither eyes nor brain.

BobG

Bob I would love to see some of these clever so & so’s try to run the club. You could give them 50 million to play with and they would bankrupt the club within 3 years.

[scawsby steve]

Longer contracts; do people mean like the 3 year contracts Fergie used to dish out to players like Evina and Middleton and others? That went well didn't it?

Or the policy of developing our own youngsters? How many of them have done well since coming through our academy?

I'd love to see the faces of some of you board bashers if TB and GB ever left.

Instead of getting defensive please name we one club or business that has ever benefited, developed or achieved long term success from taking a similar approach.

Through our failure to offer longer contracts we have lost loads of players in the past few years that would and should have demanded a decent fee. We have also had a few decent youngsters who would have done better if there squad places were not taken up by an over reliance on loan signings; waters being one very recent example.

Sometime I get the sense people want to argue for the sake of arguing without being able to rationalise what they talking about. What would you rather support? A team that’s built or one that’s borrowed?

OK, Mr Rationale; who are these decent youngsters you're talking about? I've noticed in a post further down you talk about how good Middleton could have been given a chance. That's when you lost all credibility to me regarding football knowledge. Middleton had lots of chances with us, and was absolute tripe, and he's done nothing in football since.

Still, it would have been better to have the likes of him in the team than the likes of Kane, Wilks, Sims, and Smith.

Middleton had a great game against Stoke in the FA cup.
He was unfairly and unfathomably dropped for the next game. THAT was the start of our downfall that led to relegation

If he was that good that he could have influenced our fight against relegation, why has he done nothing since he left us? Are the managers who've had him since all missing something?

[Getridorit]

Longer contracts; do people mean like the 3 year contracts Fergie used to dish out to players like Evina and Middleton and others? That went well didn't it?

Or the policy of developing our own youngsters? How many of them have done well since coming through our academy?

I'd love to see the faces of some of you board bashers if TB and GB ever left.

Instead of getting defensive please name we one club or business that has ever benefited, developed or achieved long term success from taking a similar approach.

Through our failure to offer longer contracts we have lost loads of players in the past few years that would and should have demanded a decent fee. We have also had a few decent youngsters who would have done better if there squad places were not taken up by an over reliance on loan signings; waters being one very recent example.

Sometime I get the sense people want to argue for the sake of arguing without being able to rationalise what they talking about. What would you rather support? A team that%u2019s built or one that%u2019s borrowed?

OK, Mr Rationale; who are these decent youngsters you're talking about? I've noticed in a post further down you talk about how good Middleton could have been given a chance. That's when you lost all credibility to me regarding football knowledge. Middleton had lots of chances with us, and was absolute tripe, and he's done nothing in football since.

Still, it would have been better to have the likes of him in the team than the likes of Kane, Wilks, Sims, and Smith.

Middleton had a great game against Stoke in the FA cup.
He was unfairly and unfathomably dropped for the next game. THAT was the start of our downfall that led to relegation

What got us relegated was DFs inability to see 3 centre backs and wing backs was a disaster, constantly putting square pegs into round holes and his total inability to man manage the team.
To blame it on Middleton not playing is well, I do not have the right words.

I didn't say that did I? Perhaps read posts and understand them fully before spouting off.
I said it was the START of our downfall

[Getridorit]

pib - another intelligent observation that completely passes by those folk with mouths so wide it leaves room for neither eyes nor brain.

BobG

Aye, thinking Ferguson is not a journeyman. Real intelligent

[BobG]

I note further, Getridorit, you are entirely incapable of reading.

best wishes

BobG

[Getridorit]

Longer contracts; do people mean like the 3 year contracts Fergie used to dish out to players like Evina and Middleton and others? That went well didn't it?

Or the policy of developing our own youngsters? How many of them have done well since coming through our academy?

I'd love to see the faces of some of you board bashers if TB and GB ever left.

Instead of getting defensive please name we one club or business that has ever benefited, developed or achieved long term success from taking a similar approach.

Through our failure to offer longer contracts we have lost loads of players in the past few years that would and should have demanded a decent fee. We have also had a few decent youngsters who would have done better if there squad places were not taken up by an over reliance on loan signings; waters being one very recent example.

Sometime I get the sense people want to argue for the sake of arguing without being able to rationalise what they talking about. What would you rather support? A team that’s built or one that’s borrowed?

OK, Mr Rationale; who are these decent youngsters you're talking about? I've noticed in a post further down you talk about how good Middleton could have been given a chance. That's when you lost all credibility to me regarding football knowledge. Middleton had lots of chances with us, and was absolute tripe, and he's done nothing in football since.

Still, it would have been better to have the likes of him in the team than the likes of Kane, Wilks, Sims, and Smith.

Middleton had a great game against Stoke in the FA cup.
He was unfairly and unfathomably dropped for the next game. THAT was the start of our downfall that led to relegation

If he was that good that he could have influenced our fight against relegation, why has he done nothing since he left us? Are the managers who've had him since all missing something?

The general point was not giving our own youngsters a chance.
Middleton unfairly dropped.
Caused unrest in the team, and started our downfall.

[Getridorit]

I note further, Getridorit, you are entirely incapable of reading.

best wishes

BobG

Mature and reasoned debate not your strong point, eh lad?

[pib]

pib - another intelligent observation that completely passes by those folk with mouths so wide it leaves room for neither eyes nor brain.

BobG

Aye, thinking Ferguson is not a journeyman. Real intelligent

Not sure that’s what I said, but now you’ve highlighted it to me, I would actually put it to you that Ferguson isn’t, or at least wasn’t a “journeyman” manager at the time of his appointment at DRFC.

He’d been in charge of as many clubs at that point as Darren Moore has now, is only 3 years older than DM, may well still have career opportunities at a higher level if Peterborough get promoted this season, and certainly would’ve harboured hopes of managing at a higher level still when he was appointed here in 2015

Still might not sleep tonight after hearing that you don’t think I’m intelligent though. A shattering blow.

[BobG]

I must confess, Getridorit, in all the years this board has been in existance, it is hard to remember anyone quite as vacuous, self righteous, dogmatic, incapable of providing any evidence whatsoever in support of your contentions and incapable of self analysis as you appear to be.

It's really quite an achievement Getridorit. Amongst the witty, the bright, the observant, the experienced and the wise, there have been a few right planks on here over the last 10 years and more. Your achievement is nothing to be proud of.....

BobG

[BobG]

I note further, Getridorit, you are entirely incapable of reading.

best wishes

BobG

Mature and reasoned debate not your strong point, eh lad?

No. Stating a fact.

BobG

[Getridorit]

pib - another intelligent observation that completely passes by those folk with mouths so wide it leaves room for neither eyes nor brain.

BobG

Aye, thinking Ferguson is not a journeyman. Real intelligent

Not sure that’s what I said, but now you’ve highlighted it to me, I would actually put it to you that Ferguson isn’t, or at least wasn’t a “journeyman” manager at the time of his appointment at DRFC.

He’d been in charge of as many clubs at that point as Darren Moore has now, is only 3 years older than DM, may well still have career opportunities at a higher level if Peterborough get promoted this season, and certainly would’ve harboured hopes of managing at a higher level still when he was appointed here in 2015

Still might not sleep tonight after hearing that you don’t think I’m intelligent though. A shattering blow.

I take your point, it's a fair one.

My jibe was more aimed at Bobg reverting to type and being immature, and unreasoned.

Apologies.

[Getridorit]

I must confess, Getridorit, in all the years this board has been in existance, it is hard to remember anyone quite as vacuous, self righteous, dogmatic, incapable of providing any evidence whatsoever in support of your contentions and incapable of self analysis as you appear to be.

It's really quite an achievement Getridorit. Amongst the witty, the bright, the observant, the experienced and the wise, there have been a few right planks on here over the last 10 years and more. Your achievement is nothing to be proud of.....

BobG

No mirrors in your house?

[BradwellRover]

We recruit ambitious young Managers who perform well within a sensibly managed club...

Ambitious young Manager gets chance to test himself at badly run club, but with much bigger fan base and in the division above, probably seeing the opportunity to save the day and turn it around, then get an even better offer...

Can’t think why Moore left?!!!

The reality is that our business model will always be limited by revenues (essentially the fan base). If we followed the model of big spending advocated by some, this can only be funded by either someone with big pockets, or debt.  That makes us very vulnerable to the individual losing interest (or passing away, having wider business problems, being erratic etc) in the former scenario (chansiri is a prime example here).  In the latter scenario, we run the risk of one performance target being missed destroying the whole financial model (Leeds) for many years.

The reality is that football is now ‘rigged’ by money and it’s highly unlikely that we’ll see much change.  Even to compete at Championship level you need to be spending millions (normally on strikers in particular) and we’ll never be able to do that. Instead we do the best within the constraints and I for one am happy with that. This means a mix of contracted and loans at a squad level and giving bright Managers a chance.

This isn’t Championship Manager and whilst I’m reluctant to engage in the whole ‘go support another team’ thing, I would suggest that some people need a reality check on their aspirations.  Or alternatively, if you have the business brain to solve this, then use the considerable millions you must have already amassed to fund DRFC yourself.

Matt

[Campsall rover]

We recruit ambitious young Managers who perform well within a sensibly managed club...

Ambitious young Manager gets chance to test himself at badly run club, but with much bigger fan base and in the division above, probably seeing the opportunity to save the day and turn it around, then get an even better offer...

Can’t think why Moore left?!!!

The reality is that our business model will always be limited by revenues (essentially the fan base). If we followed the model of big spending advocated by some, this can only be funded by either someone with big pockets, or debt.  That makes us very vulnerable to the individual losing interest (or passing away, having wider business problems, being erratic etc) in the former scenario (chansiri is a prime example here).  In the latter scenario, we run the risk of one performance target being missed destroying the whole financial model (Leeds) for many years.

The reality is that football is now ‘rigged’ by money and it’s highly unlikely that we’ll see much change.  Even to compete at Championship level you need to be spending millions (normally on strikers in particular) and we’ll never be able to do that. Instead we do the best within the constraints and I for one am happy with that. This means a mix of contracted and loans at a squad level and giving bright Managers a chance.

This isn’t Championship Manager and whilst I’m reluctant to engage in the whole ‘go support another team’ thing, I would suggest that some people need a reality check on their aspirations.  Or alternatively, if you have the business brain to solve this, then use the considerable millions you must have already amassed to fund DRFC yourself.

Matt

While I agree with most of what you say, I would argue that you do not have to spend millions every year to survive in the Championship.
Let’s look at Luton Town as a very good recent example of that. Good management, a close nit playing a squad all singing from the same hymn sheet and you can compete at that level.
Millwall and Barnsley are two other good examples at the present time.

There is far too much of a “we can’t” attitude. If that’s the thinking then WE WON’T ACHIEVE.
IF we go into it with a proper plan which I believe our board have for sustainability at Championship level then a “We Can” attitude has every chance of producing a positive outcome and the club achieving the goals that have been set.
What we need right now is a manager who has both the ability to get a squad capable, which I believe we have now and also had under McCann but most importantly what we need right now is a manager who is going to stick with us long enough to get us to our destination and beyond. ( establishing us long term in the 2nd tier )
Maybe just maybe Butts is the man. Could he be our next Dave Penney but in a league and two higher.

All my fingers are crossed.  Let’s hope he can galvanise this group of players and we as supporters get 100% behind him and we move onwards and upwards together.

[BobG]

We recruit ambitious young Managers who perform well within a sensibly managed club...

Ambitious young Manager gets chance to test himself at badly run club, but with much bigger fan base and in the division above, probably seeing the opportunity to save the day and turn it around, then get an even better offer...

Can’t think why Moore left?!!!

The reality is that our business model will always be limited by revenues (essentially the fan base). If we followed the model of big spending advocated by some, this can only be funded by either someone with big pockets, or debt.  That makes us very vulnerable to the individual losing interest (or passing away, having wider business problems, being erratic etc) in the former scenario (chansiri is a prime example here).  In the latter scenario, we run the risk of one performance target being missed destroying the whole financial model (Leeds) for many years.

The reality is that football is now ‘rigged’ by money and it’s highly unlikely that we’ll see much change.  Even to compete at Championship level you need to be spending millions (normally on strikers in particular) and we’ll never be able to do that. Instead we do the best within the constraints and I for one am happy with that. This means a mix of contracted and loans at a squad level and giving bright Managers a chance.

This isn’t Championship Manager and whilst I’m reluctant to engage in the whole ‘go support another team’ thing, I would suggest that some people need a reality check on their aspirations.  Or alternatively, if you have the business brain to solve this, then use the considerable millions you must have already amassed to fund DRFC yourself.

Matt

I wish I had could have written that Matt.... Spot on. Absolutely spot on. And written as clearly as Glen writes too. Money has prostituted and warped the fabric of the entire game. Rovers are exactly what you say: a well run, middlingly small club able to employ decent managers keen to prove their worth before moving on. All this garbage about 'loyalty' is sentimental claptrap driven by emotional overreaction. Players and managers and coaches are employees. It's a job. That's it. I left jobs for more money. I suspect Darren Moore has done the same. If that is true then we have, once more, seen the power of money. It should be obvious to all of us exactly where we sit in the pecking order - and what that implies.

BobG

[DonnyBazR0ver]

I really don't know where this leaves us for the future. Whilst we understand there's always bigger fish, it would be nice to have some stability. Stability meaning a manager staying committed for more than 12 or 18 months. Darren Moore hasn't even seen one season through to it's natural conclusion so we've yet to see whether he's a winner or an also ran.

What the board have to do within the contractual terms and conditions to make it more difficult for a manager to leave (without paying silly money) I don't know. Whether it be a guaranteed bonus for promotion or completing each subsequent season, who knows.

We need to be seen more than just a temporary stop over.

[BobG]

A nice dream DBR. But, unless we find a manager who is satisfied with his lot at DRFC, I really don't think it's achievable. Legally speaking it is, of course, possible to hold someone to the terms of a signed contract, but without their goodwill, which doing so would categorically lose, it doesn't take a brain surgeon to work out what would inevitably happen if the Board did do that.

BobG

[dickos1]

I agree to an extent but Lincoln are no bigger than us and have managed to persuade Appleton to tie himself to a long term contract whilst he’s being linked to much bigger clubs.

[BobG]

But All that means to Appleton is that a club poaching him will have to pay more compensation. I dont know how that algorythm works but if he's got his eyes on a top end Championship job money for that is hardly going to be a problem....

BoG

[BradwellRover]

We recruit ambitious young Managers who perform well within a sensibly managed club...

Ambitious young Manager gets chance to test himself at badly run club, but with much bigger fan base and in the division above, probably seeing the opportunity to save the day and turn it around, then get an even better offer...

Can’t think why Moore left?!!!

The reality is that our business model will always be limited by revenues (essentially the fan base). If we followed the model of big spending advocated by some, this can only be funded by either someone with big pockets, or debt.  That makes us very vulnerable to the individual losing interest (or passing away, having wider business problems, being erratic etc) in the former scenario (chansiri is a prime example here).  In the latter scenario, we run the risk of one performance target being missed destroying the whole financial model (Leeds) for many years.

The reality is that football is now ‘rigged’ by money and it’s highly unlikely that we’ll see much change.  Even to compete at Championship level you need to be spending millions (normally on strikers in particular) and we’ll never be able to do that. Instead we do the best within the constraints and I for one am happy with that. This means a mix of contracted and loans at a squad level and giving bright Managers a chance.

This isn’t Championship Manager and whilst I’m reluctant to engage in the whole ‘go support another team’ thing, I would suggest that some people need a reality check on their aspirations.  Or alternatively, if you have the business brain to solve this, then use the considerable millions you must have already amassed to fund DRFC yourself.

Matt

While I agree with most of what you say, I would argue that you do not have to spend millions every year to survive in the Championship.
Let’s look at Luton Town as a very good recent example of that. Good management, a close nit playing a squad all singing from the same hymn sheet and you can compete at that level.
Millwall and Barnsley are two other good examples at the present time.

There is far too much of a “we can’t” attitude. If that’s the thinking then WE WON’T ACHIEVE.
IF we go into it with a proper plan which I believe our board have for sustainability at Championship level then a “We Can” attitude has every chance of producing a positive outcome and the club achieving the goals that have been set.
What we need right now is a manager who has both the ability to get a squad capable, which I believe we have now and also had under McCann but most importantly what we need right now is a manager who is going to stick with us long enough to get us to our destination and beyond. ( establishing us long term in the 2nd tier )
Maybe just maybe Butts is the man. Could he be our next Dave Penney but in a league and two higher.

All my fingers are crossed.  Let’s hope he can galvanise this group of players and we as supporters get 100% behind him and we move onwards and upwards together.

I think we are agreeing here, as I said to compete at Championship level, meaning to challenge at the top. I think we can go up and I think this should be the aim, but not by risking it all on debt or questionable owners.

Cheers,
Matt

[Chris Black come back]

Appleton has had 7 jobs in 10 years. No wonder he was bang up for signing a long term deal!

[sha66y]

Blah, blah, blah, blah blah.....woulda,coulda,shoulda,
These are tit for tat arguments and disagreements over absolutely NOTHING!!!

Have you lot been in hyper-sleep or something?

This is Doncaster Rovers, this is how we operate, this is what we seem to do year in year out....we have highs, super highs, lows and crushing lows.....

We come back, we subscribe, we watch and cheer and we SUPPORT, !

I just love supporting this predictably unpredictable team...

[rich1471]

Did Watford not have 3/4 managers the last time they got promoted to the premier League

[Al4475]

We can't keep 'em because this board appoints good ones. They do a good job and get chances to move on, the board don't stand in their way when these different challenges come along, and the manager heads away - simple really.

The whole process starts right at the beginning, as our board do their homework and take their time to get a decent guy in in the first place.

You are always gonna lose decent managers eventually