Budget

[Bentley Bullet]

BB.
If they understood economics, probably delight, because it would signal a Govt committed to a massive fiscal stimulus which would raise the changes of them getting back to work soon.

So those who have been left jobless, or have lost thousands seeing their businesses collapse would delight in NHS staff getting a 12.5% pay rise? And more to the point, YOU of all people wouldn't have accused the government of being so blatantly inconsiderate and unsympathetic towards those who lost their livelihoods if the government had done so?

[DonnyOsmond]

Try again.....

I wonder what the reaction would be from the 2 million-plus people who lost their jobs through the pandemic if the NHS staff got their 12.5% pay rise?

Would not giving them a payrise or giving them a smaller payrise mean them people can get their jobs back?

You're basically asking should all suffer or should some suffer. Some is easily the correct answer.

[DonnyOsmond]

The answer to improving the countries economy never is to spend less to reduce debt. The answer is to borrow while interest rates are at their lowest and invest in infrastructure and jobs to get the economy going again as fast as possible. It's easier to pay off debt when you are making more money than paying it off when you have little income.

[BillyStubbsTears]

I heard yesterday that the expectation is that private sector wage growth this year will be 2.5-3%. I'd have thought that should be an absolute minimum for the NHS. I simply don't understand why Labour didn't have the spine to come out and make that case explicitly.

[Not Now Kato]

The answer to improving the countries economy never is to spend less to reduce debt. The answer is to borrow while interest rates are at their lowest and invest in infrastructure and jobs to get the economy going again as fast as possible. It's easier to pay off debt when you are making more money than paying it off when you have little income.

Absolutely.  If only the Tories could get this and make the whole country better off rather than their already wealthy mates!

[DonnyOsmond]

I heard yesterday that the expectation is that private sector wage growth this year will be 2.5-3%. I'd have thought that should be an absolute minimum for the NHS. I simply don't understand why Labour didn't have the spine to come out and make that case explicitly.

Because Starmer has no backbone?

[Not Now Kato]

Meanwhile, the Good Law Project has posted
 
3 days after the High Court ruled Government had acted unlawfully by failing to publish Covid contracts, Boris Johnson stood up in the House of Commons and reassured MPs and the public that all Covid-related contracts were “on the record”. However, the final Order handed down by the Judge today shows that what the Prime Minister told the House was not true.
The Judge confirmed:
“The Defendant has published 608 out of 708 relevant contracts for supplies and services relating to COVID-19 awarded on or before 7 October 2020. In some or all of these cases, the Defendant acted unlawfully by failing to publish the contracts within the period set out in the Crown Commercial Service’s Publication of Central Government Tenders and Contracts: Central Government Transparency Guidance Note (November 2017).”
Remarkably, the Judge’s Order is based on Government’s own figures – so at the same time as Johnson was falsely reassuring MPs, Government lawyers were preparing a statement contradicting him – revealing 100 contracts and dozens of Contract Award Notices were missing from the public record. You can read the final Court Order here and consequential judgment in full here.
Over the course of our judicial review, Government made no less than four attempts to provide an accurate witness statement setting out the number of contracts and Contract Award Notices that had been published late – and they kept getting it wrong. As late as the hearing itself, they said they had published 28% of Contract Award Notices within the 30 day legal limit.
But when asked by the Judge to follow up with evidence of the figures so he could make his final Order, it transpired that Government had actually only published 3% of CANs in the legal timeframe.
Government has not only misled Parliament and placed inaccurate information before the Court, it has misled the country.
Unless contract details are published they cannot be properly scrutinised – there’s no way of knowing where taxpayers’ money is going and why. Billions have been spent with those linked to the Conservative Party and vast sums wasted on PPE that isn’t fit for purpose.
We have a Government, and a Prime Minister, contemptuous of transparency and apparently allergic to accountability. The very least that the public deserves now is the truth.
Thank you,
Jolyon Maugham
Director of Good Law Project
 
One presumes that money this government has 'blown' on their 'mates' could have better been spent on a pay rise for our nurses and doctors?
 
But again, Starmer seems lax in not taking the government to task over this!  Isn't misleading parliament a rather serious offence?

[BillyStubbsTears]

Fascinating, isn't it, that the Treasury says we can only find £174m for nurses' pay rises, bu they found nearly half a billion quid to give on uncontested tenders to a pest control company that produced unusable PPE.

[albie]

NNK,

Deliberately misleading the HoC is (was) a resignation issue, back in the day.

Ldr is correct in post 46 describing the negotiation process.
What needs to be considered is if this model is appropriate, because a sector wide % increase WIDENS the gap between low earners and high earners in the NHS. At every iteration the relative reward is made more unequal.

Remember a % is dependent upon the baseline figure. If a pay freeze has meant below inflation settlements for some years past, then the RCN demand for 12.5% should be seen as a catch up on the decline set  by previous years.

Failure to address this will lead to demoralisation of the staff, and inability to recruit. Over 100k unfilled NHS positions as we speak.

Now who would benefit from staff shortage and a loss of confidence in the service........I know, those who want to privatise the NHS!

[drfchound]

I heard yesterday that the expectation is that private sector wage growth this year will be 2.5-3%. I'd have thought that should be an absolute minimum for the NHS. I simply don't understand why Labour didn't have the spine to come out and make that case explicitly.

BST.    I’m in shock.
Me and you are in agreement on a thread that isn’t football related.
Is this a new dawn.

[Glyn_Wigley]

Does anybody else remember the times past that lots of Tories - Boris included - insisted that lowering taxes increased revenue?

[BillyStubbsTears]

Ahh yes, the old Laffer Curve bullshit. One of the most comprehensively demolished pile of right wing economic ba-baa there is, but it keeps on coming back.

[big fat yorkshire pudding]

BB.
If they understood economics, probably delight, because it would signal a Govt committed to a massive fiscal stimulus which would raise the changes of them getting back to work soon.

Not sure that's going to help replace the family car we lost at 13 hours notice when my wife was made redundant 3 weeks back.

It's fine for us.  My wife has 2 more weeks before starting her new job, so 5 weeks on JSA (works out about a days wage for her she will get).

But it's not fine for those who are less fortunate than us and live week to week month to month as some of her colleagues/team do.  So there will be many who don't have that sympathy.

In our company? No pay rises for the third successive year I believe, lots of them would be far better off in the NHS.

[SydneyRover]

A budget looking to cut money off at this point is dumb with interest rates being historically low and of course the confidence behind the government that all these super trade deals are going give the economy a massive lift and put the rest of europe nay the world in the the shade.

More money to those out of work and lower paid where every penny will be immediately returned to the economy, maintain foreign aid to lead the world and engender good will, spend on economic development in areas we want to trade with and lift any depressed areas of the UK. Unless of course that you don't believe your own recent hype and or you want to carry on with ideological downgrade to the welfare state and sell off the NHS.

[BillyStubbsTears]

BFYP.
I'm sorry to hear that personal issue but it doesn't change the fact that the very best way to get unemployed people back to work, and higher wages for those in work is large Govt stimulus to the economy. They are pretty much entirely refusing to do that.

[Glyn_Wigley]

BFYP.
I'm sorry to hear that personal issue but it doesn't change the fact that the very best way to get unemployed people back to work, and higher wages for those in work is large Govt stimulus to the economy. They are pretty much entirely refusing to do that.

To be fair, the £20-a-week Universal Credit uplift is a big stimulus. Much better giving money to those who need to spend it (and keep the economy moving) than cutting taxes for wealthier people who won't spend the money but put it into non-liquid savings and stimulate nothing. The best thing to maintain stimulus would be to make the uplift permanent (and then probably claw it back through below-inflation increases in UC). It'd be politically popular too.

[BillyStubbsTears]

Agreed Glyn.

[big fat yorkshire pudding]

BFYP.
I'm sorry to hear that personal issue but it doesn't change the fact that the very best way to get unemployed people back to work, and higher wages for those in work is large Govt stimulus to the economy. They are pretty much entirely refusing to do that.

Oh thanks but we will be fine, bit of an inconvenience but not the end of the world.  My point was more towards those less fortunate than us.of which there are very many.  Even I would accept a bit higher tax etc at the minute.

I think there are better ways to do what you say though, not excessive pay rises like some have requested.

Glyn your point is fair and actually similar to what the government has done with the personal allowance policy.  Interesting that labour are now against that policy to pause the increases in the personal allowance.

[Getridorit]

First time since 2008 I had concerns about job security.

Re. NHS

What about the thousands of private sector workers who have lost their jobs?
What about police, fire and military who have worked through covid lockdowns risking their lives?

What about about every other worker that continued working to keep the country going?

This demand of a pay rise doesn't sit well with me at all.
The economy is on its arse, but yet we've got to fund an NHS pay rise?

To me, it seems like they are using the Pandemic to argue for a pay rise, which seems very wrong to me.
Where is the hypocratic oath does it say working for economic gain.?

They are welcome to transfer to the private sector if they want. But I suspect their value would be a truer reflection there.

Nah, lost respect for any NHS worker demanding a pay rise on the back of the Pandemic.

Well done to the ones who say they don't want one however.

[BillyStubbsTears]

BFYP.

The whole point is that the very last thing we need right now is for you, or anyone, to be paying more tax. We want people to be earning and spending in a way that drives demand in the economy and gets businesses selling and hiring.

[Getridorit]

BFYP.

The whole point is that the very last thing we need right now is for you, or anyone, to be paying more tax. We want people to be earning and spending in a way that drives demand in the economy and gets businesses selling and hiring.

Completely agree, but then that's the whole ethos of the Conservative party right?

[SydneyRover]

I think the idea is to get the economy going first before starting bump taxes up, when everyone that wants a job has one and the country can then afford to increase taxes without stalling the economy further.

[big fat yorkshire pudding]

I think the idea is to get the economy going first before starting bump taxes up, when everyone that wants a job has one and the country can then afford to increase taxes without stalling the economy further.

But that is exactly what the government is doing. The allowance raise this year is happening. Nothing happens until 2021 at earliest.

[BillyStubbsTears]

BFYP.

The whole point is that the very last thing we need right now is for you, or anyone, to be paying more tax. We want people to be earning and spending in a way that drives demand in the economy and gets businesses selling and hiring.

Completely agree, but then that's the whole ethos of the Conservative party right?

It is the whole ethos of anyone who gives so much as a cursory look at the basic economics. Labour's policy is absolutely that this isn't the time to be increasing taxes.