Squad for next season

[vaya]

I thought that we got a small fee for Alfie May?
I don't think that McCullough and Baudry would have fetched much given their injury record to be fair.
We also made a fortune on free agent Richie Wellens.

From memory May and Crawford were both let go while still under contract, the club waived any fee I think.
Sadlier chose to run his contract down, as he had done a previous clubs. Rowe and Marosi were let go by a previous manager. Baudry and McCullogh both had unfortunately poor injury records. Blair wanted to play closer to home after several seasons, Andrew went where he was told.

[aidanstu]

I thought that we got a small fee for Alfie May?
I don't think that McCullough and Baudry would have fetched much given their injury record to be fair.
We also made a fortune on free agent Richie Wellens.

From memory May and Crawford were both let go while still under contract, the club waived any fee I think.
Sadlier chose to run his contract down, as he had done a previous clubs. Rowe and Marosi were let go by a previous manager. Baudry and McCullogh both had unfortunately poor injury records. Blair wanted to play closer to home after several seasons, Andrew went where he was told.

So you believe all the spin the club gives out?

[tyke1962]

If I may guys .

The lad Aidan has some solid points in my opinion .

With respect he's looking beyond the present results and trying to find a place for Doncaster Rovers in the Championship and sustain that level of football without mega millions to play with .

I think that's his point .

Let's say Rovers are promoted to the championship this season and then end up in the position Wycombe find themselves tonight next season .

You have to bear in mind that whilst championship football is desirable it comes without any great financial incentives , the achievement is greater than the actual prize if you are an owner of a football club business in this day and age .

At least in the PL you make £100m even if you finish rock bottom of that league .

The only flaw in Aidan's view is to factor in attendances that separate Rovers and Barnsley , I could potentially and I really do say potentially tonight but I could be watching PL football next season @ £16 a home game because they've held the prices , that's how much match day income actually matters , clearly it doesn't .

It's irrelevant in my opinion , the real bucks to growth lay in playing trading outside the PL .

I'm not saying my club have a road map by any means , we could easily fall short this season and lose five players in the summer plus the HC and have a really difficult time next season in the championship if the recruitment on the replacements isn't great .

What I will say is that that is likely to give my club a £20m transfer budget next summer so you'd imagine we'd have half a chance of at least sustaining championship football on an a £12m turnover .

There are a few teams in our league Tyke who recently got that £100m for being in the PL. One of them is currently in the bottom 4.

Similary Huddersfield were there only a couple of seasons ago. Not helping them much either.

Wednesday, Forrest, Derby, Birmingham - you would think that they all should be teams we shoulss aspire to be like - but at least one of them is likely to be relegated this season.

There are no guarantees in football other than several teams get relegated and several more promoted each season. And you are more likely to be among the former if your club is badly run.

Wilts I agree with your post , you've no need to point me in the direction of post PL meltdown I've seen it when we ended up in administration in league one four years on from reaching the PL .

A club of our size would have to have three go's at PL fotball  and use the money effectively to build a good solid championship brand .

If by some extremely fair wind we ended up in the PL next season I wouldn't personally throw too much at it .

For starters the young lads that got us there have earned the right to play in the PL and secondly I'd use the money to become a better championship brand .

I'd take a long term view myself .

The majority of Tykes are happy at a decent championship club status rather than the yo yo league one thing we've done for many years .

If we had the odd season with the elite that would be way beyond expectations .

I think what we have to consider is what is realistically possible with ambition at the same time .

[vaya]

I thought that we got a small fee for Alfie May?
I don't think that McCullough and Baudry would have fetched much given their injury record to be fair.
We also made a fortune on free agent Richie Wellens.

From memory May and Crawford were both let go while still under contract, the club waived any fee I think.
Sadlier chose to run his contract down, as he had done a previous clubs. Rowe and Marosi were let go by a previous manager. Baudry and McCullogh both had unfortunately poor injury records. Blair wanted to play closer to home after several seasons, Andrew went where he was told.

So you believe all the spin the club gives out?

I don't recall mentioning the club.

[aidanstu]

I thought that we got a small fee for Alfie May?
I don't think that McCullough and Baudry would have fetched much given their injury record to be fair.
We also made a fortune on free agent Richie Wellens.

From memory May and Crawford were both let go while still under contract, the club waived any fee I think.
Sadlier chose to run his contract down, as he had done a previous clubs. Rowe and Marosi were let go by a previous manager. Baudry and McCullogh both had unfortunately poor injury records. Blair wanted to play closer to home after several seasons, Andrew went where he was told.

So you believe all the spin the club gives out?

I don't recall mentioning the club.

So what have your sources been?

If Sadlier is known for running down contracts then you tell him; with a year left of his contract he goes now or signs a contract. A lot of clubs really do make it that simple.

[vaya]

I thought that we got a small fee for Alfie May?
I don't think that McCullough and Baudry would have fetched much given their injury record to be fair.
We also made a fortune on free agent Richie Wellens.

From memory May and Crawford were both let go while still under contract, the club waived any fee I think.
Sadlier chose to run his contract down, as he had done a previous clubs. Rowe and Marosi were let go by a previous manager. Baudry and McCullogh both had unfortunately poor injury records. Blair wanted to play closer to home after several seasons, Andrew went where he was told.

So you believe all the spin the club gives out?

I don't recall mentioning the club.

So what have your sources been?

If Sadlier is known for running down contracts then you tell him; with a year left of his contract he goes now or signs a contract. A lot of clubs really do make it that simple.

Odd then that none of his other clubs have realised this irrefutable truth then.

[Jonathan]

I thought that we got a small fee for Alfie May?
I don't think that McCullough and Baudry would have fetched much given their injury record to be fair.
We also made a fortune on free agent Richie Wellens.

From memory May and Crawford were both let go while still under contract, the club waived any fee I think.
Sadlier chose to run his contract down, as he had done a previous clubs. Rowe and Marosi were let go by a previous manager. Baudry and McCullogh both had unfortunately poor injury records. Blair wanted to play closer to home after several seasons, Andrew went where he was told.

So you believe all the spin the club gives out?

I don't recall mentioning the club.

So what have your sources been?

If Sadlier is known for running down contracts then you tell him; with a year left of his contract he goes now or signs a contract. A lot of clubs really do make it that simple.

I don’t think Sadlier is “known for letting contracts run down.” He’s a young lad that’s worked hard to build a career and taken brave steps and risks in doing so. He’s gone to the non-league, played in Scotland and then taken a chance in the Irish leagues to earn a shot at playing in the EFL. We gave him that chance and decided to offer him an 18 month contract to prove himself. We could’ve given him a longer deal but we chose not to. When it came to negotiating a new deal we chose to offer the same terms he came across on and he chose to move on. I don’t see how that makes him “known for running contracts down.” I reckon if an ambitious club offered him regular football and security then he’d stay put but he’s done it the hard way to get to where he is and may need to again to carry on progressing.

As for our strategy. It does worry me how each summer the core of contracted players seems to run further and further down. But in the end it’s served us well with the pandemic. We’ve seen some talented players come in on loan and if we can persuade a few to stick around (like Cameron John did) then we can build with some continuity. Bostock and Bogle were good signings.

[Wiltshire Exile]

It’s one thing to let the dros go; it’s criminal for a club being ran on a budget to let the better of those players run down their contracts and leave for nothing.

Surely, if a player wants to stay at his club for the whole length of his contract, then the club have to respect his decision? The club simply cannot insist that he leaves for another club just because they might miss out on a transfer fee....or am I missing something?

[aidanstu]

I thought that we got a small fee for Alfie May?
I don't think that McCullough and Baudry would have fetched much given their injury record to be fair.
We also made a fortune on free agent Richie Wellens.

From memory May and Crawford were both let go while still under contract, the club waived any fee I think.
Sadlier chose to run his contract down, as he had done a previous clubs. Rowe and Marosi were let go by a previous manager. Baudry and McCullogh both had unfortunately poor injury records. Blair wanted to play closer to home after several seasons, Andrew went where he was told.

Of course but with a player who clearly doesn’t want to stay like Sadlier then surely it is better to facilitate a move before he can move on for free.

[DonnyBazR0ver]

Funny you should say that. Let's look at the starting XI yesterday.

Jones - Permanent from youth
Halliday - Permanent
James - Permanent
Bostock - Permanent
Anderson - Permanent
Wright - Permanent
Smith - Loan
Richards - Loan
Coppinger - Permanent
Sims - Loan
Bogle - Permanent

What's the problem? As said previously there won't be many managers out there who won't utilise the loan market especially if the young talent available is better than what we have available from the youth set up.

Most of the players you mentioned that have moved for free, I wouldn't be losing sleep over. There's a host of reasons why players move on some driven by them and some driven by the club. For every player past his best on a long contract, is a barrier to bringing in another player, eating up a portion of the budget that could be better spent.

Those players who we really wanted to keep, we did, notably Marquis, Whiteman, Anderson, Wright, Copps etc.

There may have been the odd exception which we could debate and agree to disagree however, the bottom line is the manager has a big say on how the budget is spent and that sometimes involves making difficult decisions. With three managers in relatively short time it''s easy to understand they might see things slightly differently.

[Campsall rover]

The players have all the power now.

There was a time the clubs had all the power, it has gone pretty much full circle.

[Wiltshire Exile]

The players have all the power now.

Due to the Bosman system?

[Wiltshire Exile]

Of course but with a player who clearly doesn’t want to stay like Sadlier then surely it is better to facilitate a move before he can move on for free.

Yeah, makes sense, aidanstu

[CoppsChop]

I thought that we got a small fee for Alfie May?
I don't think that McCullough and Baudry would have fetched much given their injury record to be fair.
We also made a fortune on free agent Richie Wellens.

From memory May and Crawford were both let go while still under contract, the club waived any fee I think.
Sadlier chose to run his contract down, as he had done a previous clubs. Rowe and Marosi were let go by a previous manager. Baudry and McCullogh both had unfortunately poor injury records. Blair wanted to play closer to home after several seasons, Andrew went where he was told.

Of course but with a player who clearly doesn’t want to stay like Sadlier then surely it is better to facilitate a move before he can move on for free.

So we should have sold John Marquis rather than play hardball and believe he could have helped get us promoted?

Or sell Ben Whiteman in either of the two transfer windows before we did?

Kieran Sadlier wanted to play in the Championship and would have been happy to do to with us, but you think we should have forced a move?

[Alan Southstand]

There’s nothing wrong with the so-called ‘Barnsley model’ at all. After all, the proof of the pudding is seeing Barnsley flirting with the play-off’s to the Premiership.

BUT, we can’t go into that kind of set-up, without first investing serious money into our youth system. We are, unfortunately, one very big step away from doing that bit of the model. Even if we did invest, the youth system would take years to start producing the level of talent that would be required, to make it sustainable.

What we’re doing, at the moment, is a compromise, as there seems little interest in investing the amounts needed to make us a higher category youth set-up. We are improving, little by little, but being category 3 means we have less of a shout when it comes to getting better quality youngsters.

The loan market is a good fit for most Clubs in the lower 2 leagues and sometimes, it may well bear fruit (e.g. Kane & Wilks not so long ago). How much DM leaving will impact on our choices and quality of loans, going forward, is unknown presently but whilst we still have AH, we retain a level of communication with some well respected Clubs.

Ideally, our system, running alongside a future ‘Barnsley model’, could be the way to a more sustainable future? Who knows!

[idler]

I'm sure that the likes of Taylor Richards,Sims,Dieng,Balcombe talk to their peers and more so their clubs about their time here.
Parent clubs will also be monitoring the progress, fitness and improvements in tactical awareness etc. paving the way for other loans from the club.
That's my take on it, plus it shows our younger players what to aim for.

[tyke1962]

Well I'm always interested to read other supporters views on the so called Barnsley model .

However I'm even more interested to know if the majority of supporters from other clubs  would actually accept it .

In fairly brutal terms it means accepting your best players will be sold , sometimes four or five of them in one transfer window .

For example on January 1st 2017 and sitting 7th in the championship and one point outside the play offs we cashed in on Connor Hourihane , Sam Winnall and James Bree , we finished the season mid table and were relegated to league one the following season .

Having got back up from league one at the first time of asking we lost the spine of the team in the summer , Davies , Pinnock , Lindsay and Kieffer Moore and it was a struggle to say the least and we were fortunate to stay up last season .

This isn't an easy ride to endure from the stands , young players developed specifically to sell on for profit , developing means watching them make mistake after mistake which cost you championship points week in week out until the penny drops , 17 consecutive games without a win last season , it wasn't pretty .

We've come a long way since those dark days in the first half of last season admittedly but if we fall short this season then it's likely we will lose four or five of this talented young group and we have to start again .

The only way this group and HC remains at Oakwell next season is if we are in the Premier League , not exactly guaranteed to say the least .

This model tests your resolve , it frustrates you to death .

It's taken five years to sit where we do tonight and it's best we enjoy it because it's highly likely it may not last too much longer .

It's definitely not all beer and skittles .

[silent majority]

Some excellent points made there tyke.

I think most supporters don't tend to look at the detail and focus on headlines. It's been known a while that the model at Barnsley is about profits, nothing more, nothing less. If you have some success along the way then that's a bonus but it doesn't seem to be the main priority.

[Alan Southstand]

Tyke, it’s no different to what we’re experiencing now. 5 or 6 good lads, each season, the majority going back to their respective clubs. That’s half our first team, every season, gone! And, occasionally, we lose one of our better permanents (Marquis, Whiteman).

Equally frustrating and, up to now, all it’s doing is keeping us in L1.

[Campsall rover]

Tyke, it’s no different to what we’re experiencing now. 5 or 6 good lads, each season, the majority going back to their respective clubs. That’s half our first team, every season, gone! And, occasionally, we lose one of our better permanents (Marquis, Whiteman).

Equally frustrating and, up to now, all it’s doing is keeping us in L1.

Not noticed us fighting relegation Alan.

One match from a Wembley play off final in 2018/19  A whisker away from the play offs in 2019/20 and if the season had gone full course we had every chance of the play offs and possible promotion.
This season 2020/21 we sit 5th after 31 games with 2 games in hand on most teams and still in with a shout of automatic promotion.

So I don’t call that “ just keeping us in League 1 “   Seriously Alan is that what you think and how should the club be operating under the current financial situation. Zero income.

Our squad is stronger with more depth than probably about 18 other teams in this league.

[DRNaith]

...plus, if we had unpopular players on long term contract again, people would be calling for the club to end those contracts and we'd be back to having the conversation about how a club cannot just get rid of players!

[Campsall rover]

...plus, if we had unpopular players on long term contract again, people would be calling for the club to end those contracts and we'd be back to having the conversation about how a club cannot just get rid of players!

Exactly.

There is not a perfect system is there. There are flaws in any plan the club deem to use.
As far as I am concerned the current business model works well for us in League 1.

The important thing is we focus seriously, which we are doing, on the youth system and developing our own players. We are starting to see that come to fruition but people need to be patient it takes time.
We have had a set back this season of course due to the pandemic and a lack of youth team and development fixtures but that is the boat all clubs are in at present time.

[Getridorit]

Are the current drfc board some kind of god like entities where they are incapable of making mistakes?

Wow, some blinkered opinions in this thread.

For what it's worth I 100% agree with what the op is saying.
There are literally dozens of current football boards who do things completely differently, and are much more successful.
Using loan players to make the squad is just 1 step away from 'the experiment'

My group of 6 or so rovers fans is also of the same feeling, and I dare say most rovers fans on social media.

this forum is a very tiny microcosm of the rovers fan base, and not a true reflection of the current feeling.

I keep telling myself that when I see some of the posts on here.

[Ldr]

6 people is a microcosm of a micrcosm

[Campsall rover]

Are the current drfc board some kind of god like entities where they are incapable of making mistakes?

Wow, some blinkered opinions in this thread.

For what it's worth I 100% agree with what the op is saying.
There are literally dozens of current football boards who do things completely differently, and are much more successful.
Using loan players to make the squad is just 1 step away from 'the experiment'

My group of 6 or so rovers fans is also of the same feeling, and I dare say most rovers fans on social media.

this forum is a very tiny microcosm of the rovers fan base, and not a true reflection of the current feeling.

I keep telling myself that when I see some of the posts on here.

Well unfortunately most people are living in cloud cookoo land regarding running a Football League Club.
Suggest you put your business plan together for the club.  It is so easy criticising when you have not a clue about the finances required of running the club.

Our board could walk away tomorrow. They did not have to put millions in every year do they. Do you think if there was a better way of running the club which was not costing them money out of their own pockets year after year they would have come up with better business model.  They are building something that will last. Something that will be there for future generations. Something solid.

They are not stupid, yes I am sure they will have made some decisions which they might in hindsight done differently. They are not perfect of course.
But without them and what they have done for this club we may not have one at all.

I seriously think so many people do not know how lucky we are to support a club that is one of the best run clubs and one of the most respected in the EFL.

Careful for what you wish for.

[Getridorit]

Are the current drfc board some kind of god like entities where they are incapable of making mistakes?

Wow, some blinkered opinions in this thread.

For what it's worth I 100% agree with what the op is saying.
There are literally dozens of current football boards who do things completely differently, and are much more successful.
Using loan players to make the squad is just 1 step away from 'the experiment'

My group of 6 or so rovers fans is also of the same feeling, and I dare say most rovers fans on social media.

this forum is a very tiny microcosm of the rovers fan base, and not a true reflection of the current feeling.

I keep telling myself that when I see some of the posts on here.

Well unfortunately most people are living in cloud cookoo land regarding running a Football League Club.
Suggest you put your business plan together for the club.  It’s so easy criticising isn’t it when you haven’t a clue about the finances required of running the club.

Our board could walk away tomorrow. They did not have to put millions in every year do they. Don’t you think if there was a better way of running the club which wasn’t costing them money out of their own pockets year after year they would have come up with better business model.  They are building something that will last. Something that will be there for future generations. Something solid.

They are not stupid, yes I am sure they will have made some decisions which they might in hindsight done differently. They are not perfect of course.
But without them and what they have done for this club we may not have one at all.

I seriously think so many people don’t know how lucky we are to support a club that is one of the best run clubs and one of the most respected in the EFL.

Careful for what you wish for.

How do the boards at Peterborough, Barnsley, Rotherham, Luton, Wycombe, Lincoln, Oxford etc. Run their clubs?
All of similar size and ambitions.

Our board aren't some saintly god like figures that some make them out to be.

They just own and run a club. Literally like dozens of others.

We are allowed to question them if we feel like it's warranted.  As the op quite rightly does.

This loan system is hardly good long term planning with a stable squad of players.
The uncertainty of the difficult rebuild process every pre season isn't beneficial.
As a fan, it's hard to feel an affinity with a loan player over a permanent signing that's been here a few seasons.

[Campsall rover]

What makes you think all those clubs you mentioned are better run than ours.
You have access to their financial accounts do you.

So no one else uses loan players do they. Get real. Most clubs use the loan system as it is  a prudent way of keeping the finances in check.

What is the difference in having a loan player and one on a 1 yr contract? 
How many players do you think we should be giving 3 yr contracts to in the present economic climate football is in. 
Suggest you get your cheque book out then because we have a board who are currently trying to keep our club above water. Just in case you have forgotten there has been almost zero income for 12 months.

Really sensible to give 3 year contracts in League 1 or even 2yr ones. How many many players should we give contracts to? Have you done the maths.
Let them bankrupt the club. Great idea.

Oh by the way who has suggested our board members are Gods
No they are not but imo they are doing a pretty good job.

Let us have a detailed plan with costings if you think you know a better way.
I am not holding my breath.

[wilts rover]

Are the current drfc board some kind of god like entities where they are incapable of making mistakes?

Wow, some blinkered opinions in this thread.

For what it's worth I 100% agree with what the op is saying.
There are literally dozens of current football boards who do things completely differently, and are much more successful.
Using loan players to make the squad is just 1 step away from 'the experiment'

My group of 6 or so rovers fans is also of the same feeling, and I dare say most rovers fans on social media.

this forum is a very tiny microcosm of the rovers fan base, and not a true reflection of the current feeling.

I keep telling myself that when I see some of the posts on here.

Well unfortunately most people are living in cloud cookoo land regarding running a Football League Club.
Suggest you put your business plan together for the club.  It’s so easy criticising isn’t it when you haven’t a clue about the finances required of running the club.

Our board could walk away tomorrow. They did not have to put millions in every year do they. Don’t you think if there was a better way of running the club which wasn’t costing them money out of their own pockets year after year they would have come up with better business model.  They are building something that will last. Something that will be there for future generations. Something solid.

They are not stupid, yes I am sure they will have made some decisions which they might in hindsight done differently. They are not perfect of course.
But without them and what they have done for this club we may not have one at all.

I seriously think so many people don’t know how lucky we are to support a club that is one of the best run clubs and one of the most respected in the EFL.

Careful for what you wish for.

How do the boards at Peterborough, Barnsley, Rotherham, Luton, Wycombe, Lincoln, Oxford etc. Run their clubs?
All of similar size and ambitions.

Our board aren't some saintly god like figures that some make them out to be.

They just own and run a club. Literally like dozens of others.

We are allowed to question them if we feel like it's warranted.  As the op quite rightly does.

This loan system is hardly good long term planning with a stable squad of players.
The uncertainty of the difficult rebuild process every pre season isn't beneficial.
As a fan, it's hard to feel an affinity with a loan player over a permanent signing that's been here a few seasons.

You speak as if those other clubs dont have any loan players.

Lincoln have 5 - Oxford have 6. Whilst Rochdale only have 4.

Why would you prefer to be Rochdale rather than Lincoln?

[BillyStubbsTears]

Of course but with a player who clearly doesn’t want to stay like Sadlier then surely it is better to facilitate a move before he can move on for free.

Yeah, makes sense, aidanstu

How on earth does the club "faciiltate a move" for a player?

[Getridorit]

Are the current drfc board some kind of god like entities where they are incapable of making mistakes?

Wow, some blinkered opinions in this thread.

For what it's worth I 100% agree with what the op is saying.
There are literally dozens of current football boards who do things completely differently, and are much more successful.
Using loan players to make the squad is just 1 step away from 'the experiment'

My group of 6 or so rovers fans is also of the same feeling, and I dare say most rovers fans on social media.

this forum is a very tiny microcosm of the rovers fan base, and not a true reflection of the current feeling.

I keep telling myself that when I see some of the posts on here.

Well unfortunately most people are living in cloud cookoo land regarding running a Football League Club.
Suggest you put your business plan together for the club.  It’s so easy criticising isn’t it when you haven’t a clue about the finances required of running the club.

Our board could walk away tomorrow. They did not have to put millions in every year do they. Don’t you think if there was a better way of running the club which wasn’t costing them money out of their own pockets year after year they would have come up with better business model.  They are building something that will last. Something that will be there for future generations. Something solid.

They are not stupid, yes I am sure they will have made some decisions which they might in hindsight done differently. They are not perfect of course.
But without them and what they have done for this club we may not have one at all.

I seriously think so many people don’t know how lucky we are to support a club that is one of the best run clubs and one of the most respected in the EFL.

Careful for what you wish for.

How do the boards at Peterborough, Barnsley, Rotherham, Luton, Wycombe, Lincoln, Oxford etc. Run their clubs?
All of similar size and ambitions.

Our board aren't some saintly god like figures that some make them out to be.

They just own and run a club. Literally like dozens of others.

We are allowed to question them if we feel like it's warranted.  As the op quite rightly does.

This loan system is hardly good long term planning with a stable squad of players.
The uncertainty of the difficult rebuild process every pre season isn't beneficial.
As a fan, it's hard to feel an affinity with a loan player over a permanent signing that's been here a few seasons.

You speak as if those other clubs dont have any loan players.

Lincoln have 5 - Oxford have 6. Whilst Rochdale only have 4.

Why would you prefer to be Rochdale rather than Lincoln?

My point was more aimed at the board not doing anything above and beyond what the boards of dozens of other clubs are doing.
Also that they are not immune from questioning or criticism when it's due.

Don't forget last year we had a board member jump ship at the first sign of the Pandemic and hardship.
Not great that.