This Harry & Megan business

[BillyStubbsTears]

It didn't stop Orpah from using the Danny Baker story and a couple of headlines including the word Chimp up on screen to reinforce allegations that the British Press are racist though did it, BST?

I don't know RD, I haven't seen it. If she did, that is utterly disgraceful.

[BillyStubbsTears]

What two women?

Markle and Middleton.

[MachoMadness]

It is very strange finding ourselves debating whether one side of the royal family or other is being mistreated or not when normally the argument is much more simple.

Is it an outdated institution we could welk do without? This whole forago suggests it is.

This I can agree with.

[BillyStubbsTears]

It is very strange finding ourselves debating whether one side of the royal family or other is being mistreated or not when normally the argument is much more simple.

Is it an outdated institution we could welk do without? This whole forago suggests it is.

In some senses, I couldn't agree more RD. I am not in the slightest concerned about the Royal Family. For me, the issue here is more about the standards of rags like the Mail, Express and Sun.

[Bentley Bullet]

It is very strange finding ourselves debating whether one side of the royal family or other is being mistreated or not when normally the argument is much more simple.

Is it an outdated institution we could welk do without? This whole forago suggests it is.

Many think it is an outdated institution we could well do without and will insist on this accusation of racism being true in order to strengthen that opinion.

Very, very sad, but true.

[Bentley Bullet]

What two women?

Markle and Middleton.

Middleton doesn't complain about the press, the Royal family and the public being racist! Markle does!

[Getridorit]

It is very strange finding ourselves debating whether one side of the royal family or other is being mistreated or not when normally the argument is much more simple.

Is it an outdated institution we could welk do without? This whole forago suggests it is.

In some senses, I couldn't agree more RD. I am not in the slightest concerned about the Royal Family. For me, the issue here is more about the standards of rags like the Mail, Express and Sun.

Im personally a proud royalist. But I completely agree with what you say about the press.
I think you can add the daily mirror to that list regarding the topless pictures of Kate.

[BillyStubbsTears]

What two women?

Markle and Middleton.

Middleton doesn't complain about the press, the Royal family and the public being racist! Markle does!

Which came first?

[belton rover]

Take away the colour of Markle’s skin, and I see a devious, calculated fame seeking, money orientated, selfish narcissist of a woman. With the colour of her skin, she is all those things with an unbeatable hand to play because that kind of hand can’t be matched.

People like her do more damage to racial equality than good.

Not that she’d give a shit about that.

[BillyStubbsTears]

You may well be right Belton. But we are back to the same question. How do you form that opinion, other than through the prism of how she is presented in the media?

[belton rover]

The same way you form yours, I expect.

[BillyStubbsTears]

I don't have an opinion on her.

[belton rover]

Why not? Because you don’t know her personally?

[River Don]

It is very strange finding ourselves debating whether one side of the royal family or other is being mistreated or not when normally the argument is much more simple.

Is it an outdated institution we could welk do without? This whole forago suggests it is.

In some senses, I couldn't agree more RD. I am not in the slightest concerned about the Royal Family. For me, the issue here is more about the standards of rags like the Mail, Express and Sun.

I see that but wonder if your dislike of those papers and their proprietors is colouring your judgement on this.

Ultimately what they are after is free security and a Royal title. They are using the allegation of racism to beat the royal family and their friendly press with to apply pressure. I'm not so sure it's justified.

[belton rover]

You may well be right Belton. But we are back to the same question. How do you form that opinion, other than through the prism of how she is presented in the media?

And in terms of ‘prisms of how she is presented in the media’ I assume you mean media that presents her as a race card playing, narcissistic etc etc woman, such as the mail/express/sun/mirror (I don’t know because I do not read these newspapers). I form my opinion by listening to what she has to say (through formats that are usually there to promote her views and perception) and I, quite frankly, don’t believe it.
I once thought she was the best thing that has happened for the Royal family, as it happens. She fooled me, too.

[MachoMadness]

This is why progress is so slow, unfortunately. A woman claims she's been subject to a campaign of racism from the press, and received no support from her family. The two issues combine to until she becomes suicidal. Now, I don't care about the royals, but when someone shares issues like this, and people of colour across the country call it out as racism because they can see parallels with their own lives and experiences, it's worth listening to them. But there's always a core of people who'll make excuses - "well, they weren't throwing bananas at her like a 70s football match, so you can't PROVE it's racism! You're just playing the race card! We don't know what really happened! I as a white man don't see the problem!" That's the attitude that allows racism to thrive, unfortunately - treating allegations of racism as worse than racism itself. Give the white people the benefit of the doubt, while the black woman gets none. Even when she claims to be suicidal - but hey, she was probably just lying, right?

The press coverage around her is unquestionably racist. That is not up for debate. Not just in terms of headlines - although there are plenty of them, "straight outta Compton", references to "tainting" the bloodline, references to Harry joining "the Dark Side" - but also the overall coverage. The tone of it is unmistakable and dogwhistly, as is the case for many public black figures. Constantly painting her as angry, uppity, a chip on her shoulder, everything she asks for is unreasonable. Maybe it is, and maybe she really is all those things, but the issue is that when Kate asks for the same thing it results in very different headlines. And, of course, there's just enough plausible deniability to clutch your pearls and act shocked when you get called out on it.

Meanwhile, Wills gets to shag about and nothing gets said. Old Andrew gets to live out a quiet life. Maybe if Meghan really wanted peace and quiet she should start noncing kids.

[belton rover]

How do you define press coverage, Macho?

[ravenrover]

The 2 main headline grabbing comments that everyone is talking about alleged racism and mental health/suicide both unanswerable by The Firm without causing more furore.
My expectation of the comment from the Palace when it comes is along the lines of we are disappointed about the comments made by HnM.
That is it no more.
On a seperate point were the questions given to HnM given in advance so they coild prepare their theatrical performance beforehand? As for the clip I have regretfully seen of the baby colour it was all very clearly staged, the pauses the fluttering eyelashes the long pause after the camera panned to Oprah before the WHAT?! Of shock and indignation.
As for the comment about Archie not getting a title this was instigated back in the time of George V, however when Charles becomes King their children will both be given titles as a matter of course
H complaing that his income had been cut off, if you decided not to do your job would you expect to be paid?
Charlrs not taking his calls, rewind several months and it was reported that H was talking via e mails to his father regarding them stepping back but Charles declared that it was not something to be discussed by e mail and needed discussing face to face.
There are so many conflucting points one says they were married 3 days before the eedding the other says it was just an exchange of vows, one says the colour of the child was discussex when M was pregnant the other says it was before mmmmm!

[River Don]

MM,

You might have to explain why the Straight Outta Compton story is so unforgivably racist.

The Mail ran a story about MMs family background, and it happens that her mother comes from a very tough area of LA. It is a story of public interest.

Now the headline might be constrewed as inappropriate but for most people in the UK, the only thing they know about Compton is its reputation as a gangland neighbourhood and they might have heard of NWA.

I suppose the Mail could have put a more positive spin on it and wrote it up as a fairytale rags to riches story. As it is they just reported the facts. Is that so racist?

[BillyStubbsTears]

You may well be right Belton. But we are back to the same question. How do you form that opinion, other than through the prism of how she is presented in the media?

And in terms of ‘prisms of how she is presented in the media’ I assume you mean media that presents her as a race card playing, narcissistic etc etc woman, such as the mail/express/sun/mirror (I don’t know because I do not read these newspapers). I form my opinion by listening to what she has to say (through formats that are usually there to promote her views and perception) and I, quite frankly, don’t believe it.
I once thought she was the best thing that has happened for the Royal family, as it happens. She fooled me, too.

Belton
I don't have any opinion on Markle because a) I'm not massively interested in celebrity culture and b) I'm even less interested in the Royal Family. So I've never bothered to learn much about her other than what I've picked up by osmosis because she is often in the news.

I do have an interest in how certain parts of the media f**k with people's heads and that is why I have a mild interest in this story.

If you look at the examples that MM gave yesterday, it is very clear that the media present Markle in a very different way to how they present Middleton. One very similar topics, they consistently present Middleton positively and Markle negatively.

My point was that if the information that shapes your opinion on the sort of person Markle is comes from the media, there ought at the very least to be minor alarm bells ringing on whether a media that behaves like ours does (as set out in the previous paragraph) can be trusted to give a balanced picture.

That's all I was saying. Now you've told me that you form your opinion by listening directly to what she says and you don't believe it, the issue is irrelevant. Except to say that it does take some effort of will to be oblivious to the constant stream of negative media coverage of Markle, which even I who don't give much of a shit about celebrity culture or the Royal Family pick up on.

[BillyStubbsTears]

MM,

You might have to explain why the Straight Outta Compton story is so unforgivably racist.

The Mail ran a story about MMs family background, and it happens that her mother comes from a very tough area of LA. It is a story of public interest.

Now the headline might be constrewed as inappropriate but for most people in the UK, the only thing they know about Compton is its reputation as a gangland neighbourhood and they might have heard of NWA.

I suppose the Mail could have put a more positive spin on it and wrote it up as a fairytale rags to riches story. As it is they just reported the facts. Is that so racist?

RD:

How about Rachel Johnson (the PM's sister) writing in the Mail several years ago that if they married and had kids, Markle would add "some exotic DNA" to the royal blood? Then noting in the following sentence that Markle's mother was African American.

For the record, Johnson (Rachel) insisted that there were no racial overtones to her comment. In which case, let's say that for an experienced and prominent journalist, it was perhaps a little thoughtless.

[River Don]

BST,

It's not a surprise that Rachel Johnson is casually racist, like her brother.

I'm not armed with a list of links links to back things up but I'm sure there were occasional stories of Kate being a commoner, her family being coal miners and snide remarks about her parents Mail order business in the press before she was married.

I'm not saying there isn't occasionally questionable stuff being published. I am saying I don't think there is an orchestrated racist campaign being waged against Megan by the press. And if you look at a lot of the negative reporting, like the flower girl thing, it's being fed by Royal flunkies.

There is a lot of negative criticism but it isn't racist in nature and it appears to be coming from the Royal PR people. What's that all about? Racism or a family rift? The papers and columnists know which side their bread is buttered and it's with the Royal family.

And then look at the grievances about money and titles. That's what this is all about.

[BillyStubbsTears]

For what it's worth I agree with you RD. I think there IS some racism but that's not core to the issue. It's the gutter press doing what the gutter press does. They've got a line that earns them money and they are playing it for all it's worth.

[MachoMadness]

MM,

You might have to explain why the Straight Outta Compton story is so unforgivably racist.

The Mail ran a story about MMs family background, and it happens that her mother comes from a very tough area of LA. It is a story of public interest.

Now the headline might be constrewed as inappropriate but for most people in the UK, the only thing they know about Compton is its reputation as a gangland neighbourhood and they might have heard of NWA.

I suppose the Mail could have put a more positive spin on it and wrote it up as a fairytale rags to riches story. As it is they just reported the facts. Is that so racist?

On its own you could argue that. Although the press coverage of wider race issues in neighborhoods like that is also not good. As part of a broader picture, though - and I've given many, many examples now - it's pretty clear what the implication is. Painting a picture of her as uppity, above her station, someone who doesn't belong.

If the Compton story were on its own - and it wasn't part of a broader media picture not just surrounding MM, but minorities in general - nobody would care. But when you have papers comparing refugees to cockroaches, alarmist headlines about "ethnic numbers", referring to migrants as an invading force, recycling racist propaganda from the 50s to paint BLM as nothing but Marxist thugs... I could go on and on. At some point you have to step back and realise these aren't just individual little accidents, they're part of a very deliberate big picture and a clear pattern of behaviour. The press, particularly the tabloid press, is diseased, and they're passing that sickness on to us all because they know it sells.

I keep saying this isn't just about one woman, but what that woman represents to the racist British media. And their attitude to her reflects their attitude towards all people of colour - especially the ones who aren't lucky enough to be married to a prince.

[belton rover]

Billy. I’m not oblivious to it, but I am also able to to read the headline ‘chimp’ with a picture of a person of colour (or whatever it was - I really have no idea) without thinking, consciously or sub-consciously, maybe there’s something in this.
The only ‘media’ coverage I’ve seen are ones that seem to actively promote her personal ‘plight’ ie BBC news. The whole Whinfrey interview has been a massive part of media coverage.
Markle needs the media. She thrives on the media. Even the gutter ones.

[Bentley Bullet]

On reflection, she might have made the right move in going to live in America to get away from all the racism and media coverage. Hopefully, she can live the rest of her life out of the limelight.

[River Don]

For what it's worth I agree with you RD. I think there IS some racism but that's not core to the issue. It's the gutter press doing what the gutter press does. They've got a line that earns them money and they are playing it for all it's worth.

The irony is the gutter press will actually be loving all this. It's manna from heaven for them.

[River Don]

On reflection, she might have made the right move in going to live in America to get away from all the racism and media coverage. Hopefully, she can live the rest of her life out of the limelight.

Obviously the place to go to get away from the limelight is California. The global hub of the entertainment, media and digital communication industries...

[Bentley Bullet]

I wonder if they know?

[River Don]

MM,

You might have to explain why the Straight Outta Compton story is so unforgivably racist.

The Mail ran a story about MMs family background, and it happens that her mother comes from a very tough area of LA. It is a story of public interest.

Now the headline might be constrewed as inappropriate but for most people in the UK, the only thing they know about Compton is its reputation as a gangland neighbourhood and they might have heard of NWA.

I suppose the Mail could have put a more positive spin on it and wrote it up as a fairytale rags to riches story. As it is they just reported the facts. Is that so racist?

On its own you could argue that. Although the press coverage of wider race issues in neighborhoods like that is also not good. As part of a broader picture, though - and I've given many, many examples now - it's pretty clear what the implication is. Painting a picture of her as uppity, above her station, someone who doesn't belong.

If the Compton story were on its own - and it wasn't part of a broader media picture not just surrounding MM, but minorities in general - nobody would care. But when you have papers comparing refugees to cockroaches, alarmist headlines about "ethnic numbers", referring to migrants as an invading force, recycling racist propaganda from the 50s to paint BLM as nothing but Marxist thugs... I could go on and on. At some point you have to step back and realise these aren't just individual little accidents, they're part of a very deliberate big picture and a clear pattern of behaviour. The press, particularly the tabloid press, is diseased, and they're passing that sickness on to us all because they know it sells.

I keep saying this isn't just about one woman, but what that woman represents to the racist British media. And their attitude to her reflects their attitude towards all people of colour - especially the ones who aren't lucky enough to be married to a prince.

If you're going to widen this out and suggest the right wing press pander to the worst side of British public opinion and regularly publish questionable, dog whistle stuff then I won't disagree. As you say it sells and it pushes some towards voting Tory.