Embarrassment

[scawsby steve]

When are Gavin Baldwin and David Blunt going to do something about the total embarrassment and humiliation of our club?

The situation they've put Andy Butler in is totally unfair on him, as the poor lad is utterly out of his depth.

It's too late now for the play-offs, but let's at least try and get somebody in to start preparing for the massive overhaul of our squad that's needed in the Summer.

[The Beast]

When are Gavin Baldwin and David Blunt going to do something about the total embarrassment and humiliation of our club?

The situation they've put Andy Butler in is totally unfair on him, as the poor lad is utterly out of his depth.

It's too late now for the play-offs, but let's at least try and get somebody in to start preparing for the massive overhaul of our squad that's needed in the Summer.

The budget will be considerably less next season, so unless we find a miracle worker the squad will more than likely be worse and that isn’t a dig at the board, football isn’t a viable business at this level especially with Covid, unless you’ve got someone who wants to burn their money or a massive fan base you’re screwed!

[Lincoln Rover]

Why will the budget be less ?

[since-1969]

When are Gavin Baldwin and David Blunt going to do something about the total embarrassment and humiliation of our club?

The situation they've put Andy Butler in is totally unfair on him, as the poor lad is utterly out of his depth.

It's too late now for the play-offs, but let's at least try and get somebody in to start preparing for the massive overhaul of our squad that's needed in the Summer.

The budget will be considerably less next season, so unless we find a miracle worker the squad will more than likely be worse and that isn’t a dig at the board, football isn’t a viable business at this level especially with Covid, unless you’ve got someone who wants to burn their money or a massive fan base you’re screwed!

What will a reduced budget buy you..L2?

[selby]

  Steve, the players nobody else are to blame for performances like that, not the manager. the players with just one or two exceptions showed nothing like the minimum effort and desire that a professional player should show, and worse looked resigned to accepting defeat long before the end of the game.
  Decisions have to be made admittedly, but rather than the manager I would be looking to dump the majority of the gutless crew we have playing for us at the present.
  A manager whoever we have next season will be judged on who he brings in during the summer months, whether that is Butler or anyone else, because anyone putting their trust in most of the lot that played today will end up losing his job before Christmas. They are just not good enough. 
 

[normal rules]

It amazes me that some people on here think they understand the inner finances of the club when they clearly don’t. The vast majority of funds our club has come from the owners. Not merchandise, and not ticket sales. The budget next season is likely to be exactly the same as this season. There won’t be any big expenditure on A list players, there will be a handful of loan acquisitions to bolster a contracted squad. And that will be dependant on who the manager will be. Anyone that has followed rovers for the last 20 years knows this.

[glosterred]

I don’t like to get into the manager out shouts but something needs to change soonest. If we don’t get rid of Butler then we need to get someone in urgently to assist as he is struggling.

Saying that, there are lots of players in that team who are currently stealing a living and are not worthy of there place. Bogle and Simoes bring absolutely nothing to this team Lokilo much the same.

Time for change and sooner the better


COYR

[redarmy82]

It amazes me that some people on here think they understand the inner finances of the club when they clearly don’t. The vast majority of funds our club has come from the owners. Not merchandise, and not ticket sales. The budget next season is likely to be exactly the same as this season. There won’t be any big expenditure on A list players, there will be a handful of loan acquisitions to bolster a contracted squad. And that will be dependant on who the manager will be. Anyone that has followed rovers for the last 20 years knows this.

Then the club should be honest about expectations. We will not seriously challenge at the top with a squad of short term contracts and loan signings.

Come out and say, we are happy to just survive at this level.

[The Beast]

It amazes me that some people on here think they understand the inner finances of the club when they clearly don’t. The vast majority of funds our club has come from the owners. Not merchandise, and not ticket sales. The budget next season is likely to be exactly the same as this season. There won’t be any big expenditure on A list players, there will be a handful of loan acquisitions to bolster a contracted squad. And that will be dependant on who the manager will be. Anyone that has followed rovers for the last 20 years knows this.

We’ll see

[scawsby steve]

  Steve, the players nobody else are to blame for performances like that, not the manager. the players with just one or two exceptions showed nothing like the minimum effort and desire that a professional player should show, and worse looked resigned to accepting defeat long before the end of the game.
  Decisions have to be made admittedly, but rather than the manager I would be looking to dump the majority of the gutless crew we have playing for us at the present.
  A manager whoever we have next season will be judged on who he brings in during the summer months, whether that is Butler or anyone else, because anyone putting their trust in most of the lot that played today will end up losing his job before Christmas. They are just not good enough. 
 

Brian, you've clearly not read my post properly. I said the squad needs a massive overhaul, so I'm just as aware as you as to how sh*t most of these players are.

Having said that, you surely don't think that Andy Butler, with his lack of managerial experience, will be the man to lead our supposed promotion bid next season?

[Bessie Red]

When are Gavin Baldwin and David Blunt going to do something about the total embarrassment and humiliation of our club?

The situation they've put Andy Butler in is totally unfair on him, as the poor lad is utterly out of his depth.

It's too late now for the play-offs, but let's at least try and get somebody in to start preparing for the massive overhaul of our squad that's needed in the Summer.

I did state earlier this week that his training methods are not going down well with the players and the senior players dont have any confidence in what he is trying to do. I was told by some on here that it was codswallop and I was making it up. Well I think today shows again that what I was told has a big dollop of truth in it.

[since-1969]

The club have said very little in support of the present position. Clearly this season will now fall short of expectation but THEY have take some of the blame for this current situation. Andy Butler should not have been offered the job , when clearly the season was in the balance when Moore left and a more experienced person would have known how to keep things on track !!

[sedwardsdrfc]

The players are an embarrassment too we can't lay this all on Butler and to be fair not many are. Painfully obvious we need to get a move quickly on before the season runs out so a new manager can assess the state of these players and start looking ahead for potential transfers(we'll need a lot because this lot have taken the piss).

I hope Butler stays on in either playing or coaching capacity and in 5-10 yrs when he's done his time in the coaching side of the game gets another crack at it. Unfortunately the position he's been put in he might struggle to get another job in football, certainly as a manager ever again. He's not a big enough name to keep failing and still get jobs

[selby]

  Steve, I don't think I would have appointed him at the time, what I do know he is a good coach, has the steel to overall the squad, and knows more about the players we have here and who he can trust to do the job and who can't next season.
  Don't forget it is not his squad of players, and probably is not his defined way of playing, although that is guesswork on my side, and he has been in the ideal place to know the good and bad players in this division so has a better grounding than most at this level, and all those out of work are out of work because even if experienced they have failed somewhere else
  Any new manager next season, whether Butler or anyone else will have his own squad of players who he makes additions to the players left at the end of this season who are still in contract or resigned.
  So to me he starts with an advantage over any new manager appointed, and if the new modern way with managers is followed, whoever we appoint experienced or not will have about three months to make his mark regardless of who they are, or the knives will be out anyway.
  He has picked up the mantle of an already stuttering squad of players that he did not sign and have run out of steam and also have been unable to alter their style of play when challenged, typical is Taylor Richards who has more chance of seeing rocking horse doo doo than running half the pitch to get a left foot shot off now they have seen him repeat it earlier in the season, and now looks a one trick pony.
  So unlike a lot I am willing to see him given the chance to build his own side, then I will judge, because with the ones we have got anyone would struggle.
 

[sedwardsdrfc]

  Steve, I don't think I would have appointed him at the time, what I do know he is a good coach, has the steel to overall the squad, and knows more about the players we have here and who he can trust to do the job and who can't next season.
  Don't forget it is not his squad of players, and probably is not his defined way of playing, although that is guesswork on my side, and he has been in the ideal place to know the good and bad players in this division so has a better grounding than most at this level, and all those out of work are out of work because even if experienced they have failed somewhere else
  Any new manager next season, whether Butler or anyone else will have his own squad of players who he makes additions to the players left at the end of this season who are still in contract or resigned.
  So to me he starts with an advantage over any new manager appointed, and if the new modern way with managers is followed, whoever we appoint experienced or not will have about three months to make his mark regardless of who they are, or the knives will be out anyway.
  He has picked up the mantle of an already stuttering squad of players that he did not sign and have run out of steam and also have been unable to alter their style of play when challenged, typical is Taylor Richards who has more chance of seeing rocking horse doo doo than running half the pitch to get a left foot shot off now they have seen him repeat it earlier in the season, and now looks a one trick pony.
  So unlike a lot I am willing to see him given the chance to build his own side, then I will judge, because with the ones we have got anyone would struggle.
 

He's lost the players already though. And we've been losing every week looking very poor without changing anything other than swapping a couple of players around the tactics/formation/style whatever are the same every match. We get beat and beat again and again and don't change it. Moore had us on this path and we were all saying it needed to change before he left. Butler knew this, he said at the start we need to be less predictable and he hasn't made that happen it's got worse if anything.

Lets say we lose every game this season now (entirely realistic atm) what player who is out of contract is going to want to come here if they have other options in the summer. It will have some bearing on the decision. This will go for loanees too the prem clubs will want their loan players at a team that wins more than it loses so their youngsters get confidence in mens football. Can't see many wanting their best to come here if we keep it as it is. 

So on that basis we shouldn't be giving him the benefit of the doubt and a summer. He hasn't been able to get the players playing how he wants imo and the potential risk of damaging our position for summer signings are too big a risk to let him have a preseason.

[scawsby steve]

  Steve, I don't think I would have appointed him at the time, what I do know he is a good coach, has the steel to overall the squad, and knows more about the players we have here and who he can trust to do the job and who can't next season.
  Don't forget it is not his squad of players, and probably is not his defined way of playing, although that is guesswork on my side, and he has been in the ideal place to know the good and bad players in this division so has a better grounding than most at this level, and all those out of work are out of work because even if experienced they have failed somewhere else
  Any new manager next season, whether Butler or anyone else will have his own squad of players who he makes additions to the players left at the end of this season who are still in contract or resigned.
  So to me he starts with an advantage over any new manager appointed, and if the new modern way with managers is followed, whoever we appoint experienced or not will have about three months to make his mark regardless of who they are, or the knives will be out anyway.
  He has picked up the mantle of an already stuttering squad of players that he did not sign and have run out of steam and also have been unable to alter their style of play when challenged, typical is Taylor Richards who has more chance of seeing rocking horse doo doo than running half the pitch to get a left foot shot off now they have seen him repeat it earlier in the season, and now looks a one trick pony.
  So unlike a lot I am willing to see him given the chance to build his own side, then I will judge, because with the ones we have got anyone would struggle.
 

Brian, there's one huge factor you're missing in all of this; season ticket sales. We desperately need the revenue from those, but if we lose most of our remaining games, which we probably will, and AB is still appointed for next season, do you seriously think we'll sell many, given the comments by so many people on here?

[redarmy82]

  Steve, I don't think I would have appointed him at the time, what I do know he is a good coach, has the steel to overall the squad, and knows more about the players we have here and who he can trust to do the job and who can't next season.
  Don't forget it is not his squad of players, and probably is not his defined way of playing, although that is guesswork on my side, and he has been in the ideal place to know the good and bad players in this division so has a better grounding than most at this level, and all those out of work are out of work because even if experienced they have failed somewhere else
  Any new manager next season, whether Butler or anyone else will have his own squad of players who he makes additions to the players left at the end of this season who are still in contract or resigned.
  So to me he starts with an advantage over any new manager appointed, and if the new modern way with managers is followed, whoever we appoint experienced or not will have about three months to make his mark regardless of who they are, or the knives will be out anyway.
  He has picked up the mantle of an already stuttering squad of players that he did not sign and have run out of steam and also have been unable to alter their style of play when challenged, typical is Taylor Richards who has more chance of seeing rocking horse doo doo than running half the pitch to get a left foot shot off now they have seen him repeat it earlier in the season, and now looks a one trick pony.
  So unlike a lot I am willing to see him given the chance to build his own side, then I will judge, because with the ones we have got anyone would struggle.
 

Brian, there's one huge factor you're missing in all of this; season ticket sales. We desperately need the revenue from those, but if we lose most of our remaining games, which we probably will, and AB is still appointed for next season, do you seriously think we'll sell many, given the comments by so many people on here?

What do we usually sell 4000 or so. What with the pandemic, and how the second half of this season has gone, I doubt we will sell half that many.

[silent majority]

When are Gavin Baldwin and David Blunt going to do something about the total embarrassment and humiliation of our club?

The situation they've put Andy Butler in is totally unfair on him, as the poor lad is utterly out of his depth.

It's too late now for the play-offs, but let's at least try and get somebody in to start preparing for the massive overhaul of our squad that's needed in the Summer.

I did state earlier this week that his training methods are not going down well with the players and the senior players dont have any confidence in what he is trying to do. I was told by some on here that it was codswallop and I was making it up. Well I think today shows again that what I was told has a big dollop of truth in it.

Let me correct you. You stated it was the 'senior players' don't have any confidence in his training and what he's trying to do.

I think today's performance shows that a) its not the senior players at fault, and b) this has nothing to do with training and what he's trying to achieve.

This is something else.

[ForsolongaRover]

In any walk of life, a team, a group people, your staff, cannot go from being the second most successful bunch of people running a particular type of business to being the worst in a matter of a month or two. Their leader might suddenly lose his knack or might get distracted for more money and leave, but it is the same bunch of people that are the core of the business. They were outstanding on occasions and they cannot suddenly become hopeless at their jobs. They need good, or in DRFC’s case now, better leadership than they have got.

The way the players are performing as a team following or not following instructions is making us angry because they are not working as a team and being properly managed for one reason or another. One reaction might be “sack them all”, but the fact is that their leader is not getting anything like the best out of them and does not seem capable of doing so.

[Bessie Red]

When are Gavin Baldwin and David Blunt going to do something about the total embarrassment and humiliation of our club?

The situation they've put Andy Butler in is totally unfair on him, as the poor lad is utterly out of his depth.

It's too late now for the play-offs, but let's at least try and get somebody in to start preparing for the massive overhaul of our squad that's needed in the Summer.

I did state earlier this week that his training methods are not going down well with the players and the senior players dont have any confidence in what he is trying to do. I was told by some on here that it was codswallop and I was making it up. Well I think today shows again that what I was told has a big dollop of truth in it.

Let me correct you. You stated it was the 'senior players' don't have any confidence in his training and what he's trying to do.

I think today's performance shows that a) its not the senior players at fault, and b) this has nothing to do with training and what he's trying to achieve.

This is something else.

The person who told me does not lie that's all I will say! You are not always right SM!

[since-1969]

In any walk of life, a team, a group people, your staff, cannot go from being the second most successful bunch of people running a particular type of business to being the worst in a matter of a month or two. Their leader might suddenly lose his knack or might get distracted for more money and leave, but it is the same bunch of people that are the core of the business. They were outstanding on occasions and they cannot suddenly become hopeless at their jobs. They need good, or in DRFC’s case now, better leadership than they have got.

The way the players are performing as a team following or not following instructions is making us angry because they are not working as a team and being properly managed for one reason or another. One reaction might be “sack them all”, but the fact is that their leader is not getting anything like the best out of them and does not seem capable of doing so.

Why did the board appoint a person who up until then was a member of the playing staff and who was a regular in the team that  was performing well enough to that day , but had no track record to substantiate him taking the job as a manger  other than being placed in a no choice position as the club had no alternative short term ,now at the detriment of it position in the league . So it beggars the question why didn’t the club just pursue applications including Butlers , instead of giving him sole charge to this point where results would now cause concern . It’s like putting a waiter in charge of the kitchen .
 

[silent majority]

When are Gavin Baldwin and David Blunt going to do something about the total embarrassment and humiliation of our club?

The situation they've put Andy Butler in is totally unfair on him, as the poor lad is utterly out of his depth.

It's too late now for the play-offs, but let's at least try and get somebody in to start preparing for the massive overhaul of our squad that's needed in the Summer.

I did state earlier this week that his training methods are not going down well with the players and the senior players dont have any confidence in what he is trying to do. I was told by some on here that it was codswallop and I was making it up. Well I think today shows again that what I was told has a big dollop of truth in it.

Let me correct you. You stated it was the 'senior players' don't have any confidence in his training and what he's trying to do.

I think today's performance shows that a) its not the senior players at fault, and b) this has nothing to do with training and what he's trying to achieve.

This is something else.

The person who told me does not lie that's all I will say! You are not always right SM!

You name your source and I’ll happily name mine. In my experience nobody ever does.

Prove me wrong.

[Alan Southstand]

Does it really matter who said what to who?

We have a real problem at the Club and is anyone actually going to get to the bottom of it?

Mistakes have been made and they need correcting - quickly!

[silent majority]

Does it really matter who said what to who?

We have a real problem at the Club and is anyone actually going to get to the bottom of it?

Mistakes have been made and they need correcting - quickly!

It’s a question about people putting out incorrect information. The trouble with that is that left unchallenged it becomes the truth.

So, no, it’s not about who said what.

[Alan Southstand]

Martin, with respect, there is a far bigger picture here. Something is radically wrong at the Club, don’t you agree?

That’s what needs sorting.

[Bessie Red]

When are Gavin Baldwin and David Blunt going to do something about the total embarrassment and humiliation of our club?

The situation they've put Andy Butler in is totally unfair on him, as the poor lad is utterly out of his depth.

It's too late now for the play-offs, but let's at least try and get somebody in to start preparing for the massive overhaul of our squad that's needed in the Summer.

I did state earlier this week that his training methods are not going down well with the players and the senior players dont have any confidence in what he is trying to do. I was told by some on here that it was codswallop and I was making it up. Well I think today shows again that what I was told has a big dollop of truth in it.

Let me correct you. You stated it was the 'senior players' don't have any confidence in his training and what he's trying to do.

I think today's performance shows that a) its not the senior players at fault, and b) this has nothing to do with training and what he's trying to achieve.

This is something else.

The person who told me does not lie that's all I will say! You are not always right SM!

You name your source and I’ll happily name mine. In my experience nobody ever does.

Prove me wrong.

I am not going to name my source on here and wouldnt expect you to.
If I can do it privately I will as long as it doesnt gi any further.

[BobG]

A very famous man once stated that if a lie is repeated often enough, it becomes the accepted truth. There are countless examples of it around us all of the time. Truth is not objective. It is what he majority of people believe it to be. If actions and opinions are based on what is objectively erroneous, the actions and opinions are still there. They still count. So, truth is subjective. It always has been and it always will be. Germans bayonetting babies in Belgium and the Lusitania wasn't carrying munitions are simply two older examples.  The concentration camps were a surprise to the Allies when they were found in 1945 is another. Churchill and Roosevelt knew all about them years before then. They chose to ignore them.

So, even though we all know that it is claptrap that so many people on here are now claiming to know from the outset that Butler wasn't the man for the job, in the minds of those making those silly statements, it is the truth. Another example of truth being subjective.

Regards

BobG

[Bessie Red]

Does it really matter who said what to who?

We have a real problem at the Club and is anyone actually going to get to the bottom of it?

Mistakes have been made and they need correcting - quickly!

It’s a question about people putting out incorrect information. The trouble with that is that left unchallenged it becomes the truth.

So, no, it’s not about who said what.

You believe my information is incorrect, tell me why you believe that? You are not the only person on here with close links to the club, even if you think you are!

[Bessie Red]

A very famous man once stated that if a lie is repeated often enough, it becomes the accepted truth. There are countless examples of it around us all of the time. Truth is not objective. It is what he majority of people believe it to be. If actions and opinions are based on what is objectively erroneous, the actions and opinions are still there. They still count. So, truth is subjective. It always has been and it always will be. Germans bayonetting babies in Belgium and the Lusitania wasn't carrying munitions are simply two older examples.  The concentration camps were a surprise to the Allies when they were found in 1945 is another. Churchill and Roosevelt knew all about them years before then. They chose to ignore them.

So, even though we all know that it is claptrap that so many people on here are now claiming to know from the outset that Butler wasn't the man for the job, in the minds of those making those silly statements, it is the truth. Another example of truth being subjective.

Regards

BobG

Bob, the truth I have comes from one of the "horses mouths"!

[Getridorit]

When are Gavin Baldwin and David Blunt going to do something about the total embarrassment and humiliation of our club?

The situation they've put Andy Butler in is totally unfair on him, as the poor lad is utterly out of his depth.

It's too late now for the play-offs, but let's at least try and get somebody in to start preparing for the massive overhaul of our squad that's needed in the Summer.

A few weeks ago Somebody said they have hung butler out to dry, and I completely agree.