England/Euros Thread

[Janso]

That's exactly it though, we're their Cup final.

The fact that Scott Brown reversed his international retirement when they got us in qualifying the other year says it all.

[pib]

Massive overreaction I think, as there always is one way or the other with England. We had it the other way after the Croatia game.

Yes, the manager probably could/should have been more bold with his selections/tactics yesterday, but plenty of teams underperform in the odd game in tournaments. Look at Spain/Germany so far.

England are still in a strong position.

I’d like to see Mount given a rest and Foden or Grealish brought in centrally to get them more involved in the play. I’d like to see Sancho and Rashford maybe given a go as well, and I don’t think we necessarily need to play two holding players at this stage.

[drfchound]

It wasn’t great.

In the context of England vs Scotland, a draw is certainly a better result for Scotland than it is England.

In the context of the tournament a draw is a better result for England than it is Scotland.

As a game it will please two groups of people - Scotland fans, and the not insignificant number of England fans that like nothing more than doing their own team down.

The rest of us can hopefully move on.

Exactly this.

[mjg]

I’m so glad I don’t watch elite football anymore ha ha ha

[MachoMadness]

Poor last night. No penetration or movement, Scotland were up for it and harried and we didn't seem bothered about breaking them down. Last 25 minutes I think we settled for the draw. I appreciate we don't want to peak to early and go hell for leather at this stage but it would surely be better to get the win last night and go to the Czech game already through so we can rest a few legs.

[Colemans Left Hook]

Poor last night. No penetration or movement, Scotland were up for it and harried and we didn't seem bothered about breaking them down. Last 25 minutes I think we settled for the draw. I appreciate we don't want to peak to early and go hell for leather at this stage but it would surely be better to get the win last night and go to the Czech game already through so we can rest a few legs.

sounds like Janso "in bed with his missus"

[Janso]

Poor last night. No penetration or movement, Scotland were up for it and harried and we didn't seem bothered about breaking them down. Last 25 minutes I think we settled for the draw. I appreciate we don't want to peak to early and go hell for leather at this stage but it would surely be better to get the win last night and go to the Czech game already through so we can rest a few legs.

sounds like Janso "in bed with his missus"

Steady on lads, we've got a banter king among us.

[arkseyrover]

nil v nil against the mighty Scotland!!!!! We have all that attacking flair, quality and talent sat on the bench and we can't create a team that wants to win instead of not losing or string together a move that will give us a goal. Or show some entertainment value and a will to go forwards instead of backwards, sideways and give it to Pickford to start off another slow laborious crawl backwards. Pathetic. If thats so called elite football then they can keep it!

[sedwardsdrfc]

Love to see us start with mount and foden central with just one sitting player (Rice/Philips). Foden only plays wide for city because of the quality they have in the middle. For England he should play where he can get the most touches.

Not like we’re short of quality wide players we just don’t have anyone to get the ball to them

[BillyStubbsTears]

Take the Croatia and Scotland games together and the big picture is pretty much what a non-emotionally invested watcher would have said before the tournament. England have a reasonable but not exceptional side. There are several examples of reasonable sides upping their game in tournaments and it's not out of the question that England might yet do this. But they are showing little sign of it yet. From what we've seen so far, you'd have par for England to be quarter finalists. Maybe a bit better, maybe a bit worse depending on the breaks.

[goalkick]

Just watched Portugal v Germany first half. I hope England team are watching how to move forward with the ball and create chances.

[Padge_DRFC]

Just watched Portugal v Germany first half. I hope England team are watching how to move forward with the ball and create chances.

Also sat thinking a draw Tuesday to finish second is a great result to avoid either of these 2

[BillyStubbsTears]

Just watched Portugal v Germany first half. I hope England team are watching how to move forward with the ball and create chances.

Also sat thinking a draw Tuesday to finish second is a great result to avoid either of these 2

Depends what your ambition is.

England finishing second gives them an easier R2 tie, then a very hard QF/SF.

Finishing 1st gives them a much easier run to the final, albeit with a harder R2 tie.

[Janso]

Doesn't finishing 2nd mean not playing at Wembley too?

[Padge_DRFC]

Copenhagen if second. Probably help I think. Wembley was Scotland's 12th Man last night

[Al4475]

Just watched Portugal v Germany first half. I hope England team are watching how to move forward with the ball and create chances.

The Germans have arrived! Watch out Europe.

[DonnyNoel]

Just watched Portugal v Germany first half. I hope England team are watching how to move forward with the ball and create chances.

Same re France v Germany, haven't seen such pacy counter attack since Nathan Tyson assisted Kyle Bennett when we broke form a corner against a team I can't remember!

It's a balancing act re our midfield. Lots of options, pressure on Southgate to get it right.

[andysly]

I've had 24 hours to settle down, but my opinion remains the same.
Gareth Southgate is too conservative in his footballing philosophy, his first thought is not to lose, when surely against Scotland it should be about getting out there and putting them to the sword and to hell with the possibility of conceding a goal. It was the same in the warm up games v Austria and Romania, either of which we could easily have drawn.
There's a time and place for being on the backfoot a little and hopefully those sort of matches will come when the knock out stages arrive, and the likes of France, Germany etc are waiting.

[BillyStubbsTears]

As I've said times many, putting poor England performances down to failings of the manager implies that England have had managers who were worse than their players for the past 50 years. Despite the fact that many of those managers had excellent records when they weren't managing England.

[swintonrover]

There needs to be flexibility in team selections. You can't set up the same regardless of who you're playing, that's school football management.
Set up defensive counter-attacking v Croatia, fair enough, they're a good team who will take the game to us. Against Scotland, you need to be on the offensive. Drop Rice/Phillips, put either Mount or Foden in the centre and start Grealish/Sancho/Rashford as another attacking option and have a go at them.

[Alan Southstand]

Unlike Southgate, who’s had no discerning success before managing England, BST. And, with regards to my previous remarks re the manager, I don’t give a monkey’s what managers or players we had over the last 50 years, it’s pretty much meaningless under the present circumstances.

Southgate’s thought process of a game we must not lose obviously got transferred onto the pitch with the England players.

[BillyStubbsTears]

Alan.

My point is, after every misfire in every tournament throughout my life, the line has been "if only the manager was better". When in reality, the core problem has been that our players are nowhere near as good as we hype them up to be.

[RoversAlias]

Alan.

My point is, after every misfire in every tournament throughout my life, the line has been "if only the manager was better". When in reality, the core problem has been that our players are nowhere near as good as we hype them up to be.

These are very good players though. Kane has just won another golden boot and registered the most assists in the Prem, he's world class. Sterling has been excellent (by and large) for a wonderful Man City team, as has John Stones. Mason Mount is a key creative piece for the current Champions League holders. Jadon Sancho is tearing the Bundesliga apart. Jordan Henderson is captain of the best Liverpool side for 30+ years.

I like Southgate but you can't say we don't have a top squad. Many neutrals have said ours is up there with the very best alongside France and Italy. Maybe what you're saying was true when Bobby Robson or Fabio Capello was in charge but it is clear Southgate is not a world class manager. I think he suits this England team and I hope he proves the doubters wrong as this tournament goes on but your point doesn't allow for the nuance of the present day and Alan is right, the previous incarnations of England over many decades is irrelevant to Euro 2020 and this England team.

[ravenrover]

And there you have it RA wonderful players for their team where they have world class players surrounding them. Does that bring out the best in them or are they just average players made to look better?

[dickos1]

And there you have it RA wonderful players for their team where they have world class players surrounding them. Does that bring out the best in them or are they just average players made to look better?

Kane plays for Tottenham though, if anything it’s him that makes other Tottenham players look better.
Players like foden, grealish, Kane, mount, are up with the top top players in the premiership.

[NickDRFC]

Alan.

My point is, after every misfire in every tournament throughout my life, the line has been "if only the manager was better". When in reality, the core problem has been that our players are nowhere near as good as we hype them up to be.

These are very good players though. Kane has just won another golden boot and registered the most assists in the Prem, he's world class. Sterling has been excellent (by and large) for a wonderful Man City team, as has John Stones. Mason Mount is a key creative piece for the current Champions League holders. Jadon Sancho is tearing the Bundesliga apart. Jordan Henderson is captain of the best Liverpool side for 30+ years.

I like Southgate but you can't say we don't have a top squad. Many neutrals have said ours is up there with the very best alongside France and Italy. Maybe what you're saying was true when Bobby Robson or Fabio Capello was in charge but it is clear Southgate is not a world class manager. I think he suits this England team and I hope he proves the doubters wrong as this tournament goes on but your point doesn't allow for the nuance of the present day and Alan is right, the previous incarnations of England over many decades is irrelevant to Euro 2020 and this England team.

Agree with a lot of that, especially Southgate. He’s a nice guy, fantastic in front of the press, keen to develop youngsters, but he’s essentially a human handbrake on this squad. You could understand the safety first approach at the last World Cup given the limitations of the squad then but his cautious approach, even in the warm ups, is too much for me at the moment. With him in charge at the moment we’re less than the sum of our parts - a good manager (like Mancini) makes them more than that. I’m not getting carried away with Friday night’s draw but it’s looking increasingly like any significant progress in this tournament will be in spite of, rather than because of, the manager.

[ravenrover]

And there you have it RA wonderful players for their team where they have world class players surrounding them. Does that bring out the best in them or are they just average players made to look better?

Kane plays for Tottenham though, if anything it’s him that makes other Tottenham players look better.
Players like foden, grealish, Kane, mount, are up with the top top players in the premiership.

If they are that good how come the rest of top teams in UK and Europe arren't in a bidding war for them? If Kane goes to Citeh he will score 30+ goals a season with the chances they create but could he do it elsewhere? For me they are top class English players but that doesn't say a great deal compared to world talent JMHO

[dickos1]

Kane has done it every year for Tottenham who are an average premier league side.
He won the golden boot in the last world cup,
Foden and mount have both been amongst the two best players for the two best club sides in Europe.
Foden wouldnt leave city and city wouldn't sell him,
Messi is probably best player in the world and has been for 10 years but no clubs have been in a bidding war for him cause they know there’s no chance of getting him.
It doesn’t mean they aren’t any good just because there isn’t a bidding war for them.

[Padge_DRFC]

And there you have it RA wonderful players for their team where they have world class players surrounding them. Does that bring out the best in them or are they just average players made to look better?

Kane plays for Tottenham though, if anything it’s him that makes other Tottenham players look better.
Players like foden, grealish, Kane, mount, are up with the top top players in the premiership.

If they are that good how come the rest of top teams in UK and Europe arren't in a bidding war for them? If Kane goes to Citeh he will score 30+ goals a season with the chances they create but could he do it elsewhere? For me they are top class English players but that doesn't say a great deal compared to world talent JMHO

If you can bang goals in, in the premiership you can do it anywhere. Hardest league in the world IMO.

[Alan Southstand]

Billy, I fully understand the point you’re making and I can go along with it, to a point. The truth of the matter is, when you analyse it, yes, we’ve had some dross players but it doesn’t deflect the fact that we’ve also appointed some pretty poor managers!

My problem is with the current manager. We’ve never had the technology and levels of training and analyses that we have now. The trouble is, all that goes straight out the window when it comes down to the manager’s strangulation of front foot football, taking risk in the right areas and giving players the freedom to ‘work it out on the pitch’. I don’t think he can see the woods for the trees!