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Just stated that the main proponents, Johnson/Raab/Gove et al who campaigned for us to leave the Europe Union had no understanding on how difficult it would be to do so, but campaigned regardless. So is that what brexit supporters voted for?I would think they voted to leave the eu not that boris ect. Didn't understand how hard it would be
Of course the NI protocol isn't working. No-one who has ever looked at the issue would ever think it would. It was a trick to allow Johnson to Get Brexit Done. It was typical Johnson winging it, thinking of the headlines and worrying about the detail later.The NI situation is REALLY straightforward. Once the UK chose to leave the SM and CU, there is not possible outcome that doesn't include either a trade border between NI and RoI, or a trade border between GB and NI.The first isn't acceptable to the Nationalists.The second isn't acceptable to the Unionists.Which is just one of the overwhelming arguments why we should never have left the SM and CU.What Johnson did was to sign up to the second alternative, and now to complain that he didn't think the EU was SERIOUSLY going to insist on having a trade border between GB and NI.We are an utter embarrassment on the international stage. We negotiate in bad faith, we break deals that we have signed and we then scream that it is everyone else's fault. Our reputation for trustworthiness matters, but clearly not to Johnson.
Quote from: BillyStubbsTears on June 22, 2021, 02:16:08 pmOf course the NI protocol isn't working. No-one who has ever looked at the issue would ever think it would. It was a trick to allow Johnson to Get Brexit Done. It was typical Johnson winging it, thinking of the headlines and worrying about the detail later.The NI situation is REALLY straightforward. Once the UK chose to leave the SM and CU, there is not possible outcome that doesn't include either a trade border between NI and RoI, or a trade border between GB and NI.The first isn't acceptable to the Nationalists.The second isn't acceptable to the Unionists.Which is just one of the overwhelming arguments why we should never have left the SM and CU.What Johnson did was to sign up to the second alternative, and now to complain that he didn't think the EU was SERIOUSLY going to insist on having a trade border between GB and NI.We are an utter embarrassment on the international stage. We negotiate in bad faith, we break deals that we have signed and we then scream that it is everyone else's fault. Our reputation for trustworthiness matters, but clearly not to Johnson.Should let the island of Ireland unite or NI go independent. Shouldn’t even be part of the UK (yes I’m fully aware of the history and the ‘why’)
Quote from: Ldr on June 22, 2021, 03:20:58 pmQuote from: BillyStubbsTears on June 22, 2021, 02:16:08 pmOf course the NI protocol isn't working. No-one who has ever looked at the issue would ever think it would. It was a trick to allow Johnson to Get Brexit Done. It was typical Johnson winging it, thinking of the headlines and worrying about the detail later.The NI situation is REALLY straightforward. Once the UK chose to leave the SM and CU, there is not possible outcome that doesn't include either a trade border between NI and RoI, or a trade border between GB and NI.The first isn't acceptable to the Nationalists.The second isn't acceptable to the Unionists.Which is just one of the overwhelming arguments why we should never have left the SM and CU.What Johnson did was to sign up to the second alternative, and now to complain that he didn't think the EU was SERIOUSLY going to insist on having a trade border between GB and NI.We are an utter embarrassment on the international stage. We negotiate in bad faith, we break deals that we have signed and we then scream that it is everyone else's fault. Our reputation for trustworthiness matters, but clearly not to Johnson.Should let the island of Ireland unite or NI go independent. Shouldn’t even be part of the UK (yes I’m fully aware of the history and the ‘why’)Then you'll be fully aware of the fact that if either of those came to pass, there'd be utter carnage.
Quote from: BillyStubbsTears on June 22, 2021, 03:27:36 pmQuote from: Ldr on June 22, 2021, 03:20:58 pmQuote from: BillyStubbsTears on June 22, 2021, 02:16:08 pmOf course the NI protocol isn't working. No-one who has ever looked at the issue would ever think it would. It was a trick to allow Johnson to Get Brexit Done. It was typical Johnson winging it, thinking of the headlines and worrying about the detail later.The NI situation is REALLY straightforward. Once the UK chose to leave the SM and CU, there is not possible outcome that doesn't include either a trade border between NI and RoI, or a trade border between GB and NI.The first isn't acceptable to the Nationalists.The second isn't acceptable to the Unionists.Which is just one of the overwhelming arguments why we should never have left the SM and CU.What Johnson did was to sign up to the second alternative, and now to complain that he didn't think the EU was SERIOUSLY going to insist on having a trade border between GB and NI.We are an utter embarrassment on the international stage. We negotiate in bad faith, we break deals that we have signed and we then scream that it is everyone else's fault. Our reputation for trustworthiness matters, but clearly not to Johnson.Should let the island of Ireland unite or NI go independent. Shouldn’t even be part of the UK (yes I’m fully aware of the history and the ‘why’)Then you'll be fully aware of the fact that if either of those came to pass, there'd be utter carnage.Oh 100%, doesn’t mean I’m wrong though
Ldr.And how do you "let" something happen when the majority of the population would a) vote against it and then b) riot, shoot and bomb against it.
Should have gone to another vote. Most people did not have a clue what they were voting for.
Quote from: DRCraig on June 22, 2021, 03:00:08 pmShould have gone to another vote. Most people did not have a clue what they were voting for.how do you know that? People chose to leave the eu that's the end of it
Thank you for making my point for me BB. People were encouraged to believe they had nothing to lose. They'll be learning the long, hard, grinding way for decades how badly misled they were.
Quote from: BillyStubbsTears on June 22, 2021, 04:35:04 pmThank you for making my point for me BB. People were encouraged to believe they had nothing to lose. They'll be learning the long, hard, grinding way for decades how badly misled they were. I doubt very much that a significant amount of people would have been influenced by Boris and co, more likely voters would have gone against remaining because of what looked like scaremongering by Cameron and co.
Cameron WAS scaremongering, but at the time no one really knew for sure. I voted to remain partly because of Cameron's threats, but I had something to lose, many others weren't swayed by Cameron's threats because they felt they had nothing to lose and maybe even something to gain.
There are many other threads on brexit and this has been done time and time again, I voted to leave the eu simple as that, ask me again in ten years was it the right choice and I'll give you a honest answer