Lord Frost - The truth starting to come out?

[KeithMyath]

Just stated that the main proponents, Johnson/Raab/Gove et al who campaigned for us to leave the Europe Union had no understanding on how difficult it would be to do so, but campaigned regardless. So is that what brexit supporters voted for?

[bpoolrover]

Just stated that the main proponents, Johnson/Raab/Gove et al who campaigned for us to leave the Europe Union had no understanding on how difficult it would be to do so, but campaigned regardless. So is that what brexit supporters voted for?I would think they voted to leave the eu not that boris ect. Didn't understand how hard it would be

[KeithMyath]

So they voted to leave based on what they were being told? (Which the proponents didnt have any knowledge of) or they voted to leave regardless of what they were being told, based on.......?. He also stated that the NI protocol isnt working and cant remain.

[BillyStubbsTears]

Of course the NI protocol isn't working. No-one who has ever looked at the issue would ever think it would. It was a trick to allow Johnson to Get Brexit Done. It was typical Johnson winging it, thinking of the headlines and worrying about the detail later.

The NI situation is REALLY straightforward. Once the UK chose to leave the SM and CU, there is not possible outcome that doesn't include either a trade border between NI and RoI, or a trade border between GB and NI.

The first isn't acceptable to the Nationalists.

The second isn't acceptable to the Unionists.

Which is just one of the overwhelming arguments why we should never have left the SM and CU.

What Johnson did was to sign up to the second alternative, and now to complain that he didn't think the EU was SERIOUSLY going to insist on having a trade border between GB and NI.

We are an utter embarrassment on the international stage. We negotiate in bad faith, we break deals that we have signed and we then scream that it is everyone else's fault. Our reputation for trustworthiness matters, but clearly not to Johnson.

[DRCraig]

Should have gone to another vote. Most people did not have a clue what they were voting for.

[Bentley Bullet]

It was a strange one. We had a Tory leader who wanted to remain but was carrying out the democratic wish of the majority who wanted to leave, and a Labour leader who wanted to leave but was carrying out the wishes of the minority who refused to accept the democratic result and wanted a revote!

[Ldr]

Of course the NI protocol isn't working. No-one who has ever looked at the issue would ever think it would. It was a trick to allow Johnson to Get Brexit Done. It was typical Johnson winging it, thinking of the headlines and worrying about the detail later.

The NI situation is REALLY straightforward. Once the UK chose to leave the SM and CU, there is not possible outcome that doesn't include either a trade border between NI and RoI, or a trade border between GB and NI.

The first isn't acceptable to the Nationalists.

The second isn't acceptable to the Unionists.

Which is just one of the overwhelming arguments why we should never have left the SM and CU.

What Johnson did was to sign up to the second alternative, and now to complain that he didn't think the EU was SERIOUSLY going to insist on having a trade border between GB and NI.

We are an utter embarrassment on the international stage. We negotiate in bad faith, we break deals that we have signed and we then scream that it is everyone else's fault. Our reputation for trustworthiness matters, but clearly not to Johnson.

Should let the island of Ireland unite or NI go independent. Shouldn’t even be part of the UK (yes I’m fully aware of the history and the ‘why’)

[Herbert Anchovy]

Of course the NI protocol isn't working. No-one who has ever looked at the issue would ever think it would. It was a trick to allow Johnson to Get Brexit Done. It was typical Johnson winging it, thinking of the headlines and worrying about the detail later.

The NI situation is REALLY straightforward. Once the UK chose to leave the SM and CU, there is not possible outcome that doesn't include either a trade border between NI and RoI, or a trade border between GB and NI.

The first isn't acceptable to the Nationalists.

The second isn't acceptable to the Unionists.

Which is just one of the overwhelming arguments why we should never have left the SM and CU.

What Johnson did was to sign up to the second alternative, and now to complain that he didn't think the EU was SERIOUSLY going to insist on having a trade border between GB and NI.

We are an utter embarrassment on the international stage. We negotiate in bad faith, we break deals that we have signed and we then scream that it is everyone else's fault. Our reputation for trustworthiness matters, but clearly not to Johnson.

Should let the island of Ireland unite or NI go independent. Shouldn’t even be part of the UK (yes I’m fully aware of the history and the ‘why’)

There would be untold bloodshed with either of those options.

[BillyStubbsTears]

Of course the NI protocol isn't working. No-one who has ever looked at the issue would ever think it would. It was a trick to allow Johnson to Get Brexit Done. It was typical Johnson winging it, thinking of the headlines and worrying about the detail later.

The NI situation is REALLY straightforward. Once the UK chose to leave the SM and CU, there is not possible outcome that doesn't include either a trade border between NI and RoI, or a trade border between GB and NI.

The first isn't acceptable to the Nationalists.

The second isn't acceptable to the Unionists.

Which is just one of the overwhelming arguments why we should never have left the SM and CU.

What Johnson did was to sign up to the second alternative, and now to complain that he didn't think the EU was SERIOUSLY going to insist on having a trade border between GB and NI.

We are an utter embarrassment on the international stage. We negotiate in bad faith, we break deals that we have signed and we then scream that it is everyone else's fault. Our reputation for trustworthiness matters, but clearly not to Johnson.

Should let the island of Ireland unite or NI go independent. Shouldn’t even be part of the UK (yes I’m fully aware of the history and the ‘why’)

Then you'll be fully aware of the fact that if either of those came to pass, there'd be utter carnage.

[Ldr]

Of course the NI protocol isn't working. No-one who has ever looked at the issue would ever think it would. It was a trick to allow Johnson to Get Brexit Done. It was typical Johnson winging it, thinking of the headlines and worrying about the detail later.

The NI situation is REALLY straightforward. Once the UK chose to leave the SM and CU, there is not possible outcome that doesn't include either a trade border between NI and RoI, or a trade border between GB and NI.

The first isn't acceptable to the Nationalists.

The second isn't acceptable to the Unionists.

Which is just one of the overwhelming arguments why we should never have left the SM and CU.

What Johnson did was to sign up to the second alternative, and now to complain that he didn't think the EU was SERIOUSLY going to insist on having a trade border between GB and NI.

We are an utter embarrassment on the international stage. We negotiate in bad faith, we break deals that we have signed and we then scream that it is everyone else's fault. Our reputation for trustworthiness matters, but clearly not to Johnson.

Should let the island of Ireland unite or NI go independent. Shouldn’t even be part of the UK (yes I’m fully aware of the history and the ‘why’)

Then you'll be fully aware of the fact that if either of those came to pass, there'd be utter carnage.

Oh 100%, doesn’t mean I’m wrong though

[Herbert Anchovy]

Of course the NI protocol isn't working. No-one who has ever looked at the issue would ever think it would. It was a trick to allow Johnson to Get Brexit Done. It was typical Johnson winging it, thinking of the headlines and worrying about the detail later.

The NI situation is REALLY straightforward. Once the UK chose to leave the SM and CU, there is not possible outcome that doesn't include either a trade border between NI and RoI, or a trade border between GB and NI.

The first isn't acceptable to the Nationalists.

The second isn't acceptable to the Unionists.

Which is just one of the overwhelming arguments why we should never have left the SM and CU.

What Johnson did was to sign up to the second alternative, and now to complain that he didn't think the EU was SERIOUSLY going to insist on having a trade border between GB and NI.

We are an utter embarrassment on the international stage. We negotiate in bad faith, we break deals that we have signed and we then scream that it is everyone else's fault. Our reputation for trustworthiness matters, but clearly not to Johnson.

Should let the island of Ireland unite or NI go independent. Shouldn’t even be part of the UK (yes I’m fully aware of the history and the ‘why’)

Then you'll be fully aware of the fact that if either of those came to pass, there'd be utter carnage.

Oh 100%, doesn’t mean I’m wrong though

There’s no way we could do either. Considering our history in Ireland we have a morale as well as a political obligation to support peace over there.

[BillyStubbsTears]

Ldr.

And how do you "let" something happen when the majority of the population would a) vote against it and then b) riot, shoot and bomb against it.

[Ldr]

Ldr.

And how do you "let" something happen when the majority of the population would a) vote against it and then b) riot, shoot and bomb against it.

Practically you can’t, I stand by my point been correct in theory

[BillyStubbsTears]

Well aye. In theory we should let the Palestinians rule their homeland. The devil is in the detail.

[Herbert Anchovy]

So in other words, we should wash our hands of Ireland and let them fight it out between themselves?

[KeithMyath]

Should have gone to another vote. Most people did not have a clue what they were voting for.

I live in a county that voted for it, and ultimately will suffer the most. Cornwall's fishing industry can no longer sell to France, which was as high as 80% of their trade (Including the Uk). It might mean that we start eating more UK based fish, the mussels down here have never been so good now the EU do not get first dibs but that will take years for the UK to change its eating habits.

Cornwall is also one of the most deprived areas in the UK, hard to believe on a day like today. BUt the 100m a year from the EU to keep it services afloat are now gone. Talks of 80m to last 5 years has been talked up on the local radio stations. 500m down to 80m...

Farming, we have lost 2 meat packing plants in Bodmin & Launceston this year, as the UK can only produce so much meat, and needed imports from the EU to suppliment them. The cost and red tape has put an end to that and they have decided to close shop with 100's of jobs going. EU Farming subsidies are also set to be phased out so its a another blow.

Tourism, we are seeing a boost, but the infrastructure can not cope and the staff needed are no longer around because of the high living costs and low wages its meant that a lot of the workers here in Cornwall are Eastern European. Seemingly Happier to take the lower wage, with vast swathes of the youngsters in Cornwall leaving the county. Think 3 out 5 leave Cornwall after completing all their qualifications, one of the worst averages in Europe. Now we have a block on new European workers coming in and hence the cafe's and restaurants etc are not able to fulfil a full week of being open, more people are quitting due to the additional tourism. My local here is only open evenings, 5 days a week. As they can not find anyone to work in the industry. Obviously Covid hasnt helped but they relied on EU workers supplementing the locals who worked there.

Industry, what there is. I work in mining, and since brexit pretty much all the current projects have been moth balled or stopped for good. Mainly as European investment was funding these projects. Imerys one of Cornwalls largest employers (French) among others have called time on investment for the next 5 years. So a lot of planned work pre brexit is looking likely to be moved to the EU.

Covid isn't helping this, and house prices are rocketing. Thankfully we bought our current house 3 years ago. We have people knocking on the door offering us over 40% what we paid for it. The government are supposed to be facilitating building affordable housing, but developers are charging more and more and many new estates are being bought by londoners for holiday lets, pricing locals out of there own towns. This doesn't relate to Brexit in itself but is just another reason why the difficulties of brexit when something else like Covid comes along means its an absolute **** show.

[bpoolrover]

Should have gone to another vote. Most people did not have a clue what they were voting for.

how do you know that? People chose to leave the eu that's the end of it

[BillyStubbsTears]

KM
That's the genius of the Brexit sting.

The very people with most to lose were convinced that they had nothing to lose.

South Yorkshire was due €3bn from the EU over the 2020's. That was the tax payers of Barcelona and Frankfurt and Stockholm being prepared to dig into their pockets to sort out the economic mess that Austerity left in Donny.

But nope! We are too proud for that. If we stop paying "our" share to the EU, we can spend "our" money as we wish.

The sheer naivety of it. The lack of understanding that we will NEVER get that sort of investment in SY from a Tory Govt.

Played from start to finish.

[BillyStubbsTears]

Should have gone to another vote. Most people did not have a clue what they were voting for.

how do you know that? People chose to leave the eu that's the end of it

Like the last 5 years never happened.

Bpool. When you voted "Leave", did you imagine that we'd have a Norway type deal? A Switzerland type deal? Did you expect us to stay in the EEA? In Horizon2020? In the European Aviation Security Agency? Did you vote Leave expecting that to mean that there would be a trade border between GB and NI?

Brexit was never just a simple, easily defined thing. What you did by voting Leave, was to empower the right wing of the Tory party to decide on your behalf what you meant when you voted Leave.

[bpoolrover]

There are many other threads on brexit and this has been done time and time again, I voted to leave the eu simple as that, ask me again in ten years was it the right choice and I'll give you a honest answer

[Bentley Bullet]

BST. You make it sound like the UK was the land of milk and honey for everyone and not just the likes of the immigrants who came and flooded places like Hexthorpe. For many UK people though, perhaps they felt they had gained nothing personally out of us being in the EU for nye on half a century, and were left feeling they had nothing to lose from voting to leave.

[BillyStubbsTears]

Thank you for making my point for me BB. People were encouraged to believe they had nothing to lose. They'll be learning the long, hard, grinding way for decades how badly misled they were.

[BillyStubbsTears]

Bpool.

My point is that what you actually voted for was for a very small, powerful bunch of Tory MPs and backers to decide on your behalf what Brexit meant. I may be doing you a disservice, but I'd hazard a guess that you didn't think too deeply into the pros and cons of the literally infinite different forms that Brexit could have taken.

[Bentley Bullet]

Thank you for making my point for me BB. People were encouraged to believe they had nothing to lose. They'll be learning the long, hard, grinding way for decades how badly misled they were.

I doubt very much that a significant amount of people would have been influenced by Boris and co, more likely voters would have gone against remaining because of what looked like scaremongering by Cameron and co.

[KeithMyath]

Thank you for making my point for me BB. People were encouraged to believe they had nothing to lose. They'll be learning the long, hard, grinding way for decades how badly misled they were.

I doubt very much that a significant amount of people would have been influenced by Boris and co, more likely voters would have gone against remaining because of what looked like scaremongering by Cameron and co.

Isn't that what brexiteers including Johnson said Cameron was doing... Scaremongering. So on that basis they were listening to Johnson, Cameron if anything (In take of breath) was possibly telling the truth, for once, maybe...

[Bentley Bullet]

Cameron WAS scaremongering, but at the time no one really knew for sure. I voted to remain partly because of Cameron's threats, but I had something to lose, many others weren't swayed by Cameron's threats because they felt they had nothing to lose and maybe even something to gain.

 

[KeithMyath]

Cameron WAS scaremongering, but at the time no one really knew for sure. I voted to remain partly because of Cameron's threats, but I had something to lose, many others weren't swayed by Cameron's threats because they felt they had nothing to lose and maybe even something to gain.

Can't say i paid any attention to Cameron during the vote. I voted to remain because i enjoyed all the benefits of being an EU national. Also because I work in an industry that needs European funding (Private European Companies not the EU itself), Large scale infrastructure outside of Hinkley, HS2 and Cross rail has dried up to nothing since we voted leave. A lot of people just see the company name on the wall and assume its UK cash funding it. I have worked on various projects and nearly all the money comes from Europe banks/Investors.

We all had something to gain I guess, sovereignty 

[Bentley Bullet]

I think sovereignty played a part in the hope it would stop the flood of immigrants coming into the country with no prospects of getting a job more than the colour of the new passports that was constantly reported.

[drfchound]

There are many other threads on brexit and this has been done time and time again, I voted to leave the eu simple as that, ask me again in ten years was it the right choice and I'll give you a honest answer

Dead right, and with the benefit of hindsight mate.
As is the case with lots of stuff discussed on here.

[wilts rover]

Should have gone to another vote. Most people did not have a clue what they were voting for.

how do you know that? People chose to leave the eu that's the end of it

People chose to leave the EU and that's the end of it.

You reckon!!! I have bad news for you on that front, from the farmers, from the fishing community, from NI, from Scotland, from exporters, from NHS staff, from lorry drivers...