Rovers Accounts

[albie]

Now up on Companies House website;
https://find-and-update.company-information.service.gov.uk/company/03739676/filing-history

Short form accounts, rather than full accounts, so not as much detail.

[NickDRFC]

Hard to takeaway too much without the full detail but headlines are that the bulk of the loans owed to Club Doncaster have been converted to equity (amounts owed to Club Doncaster fell from £6.4m to being owed £50k) and that we appear to have made an accounting loss of approx £540k, but no indication of how much of that is from the Whiteman sale. Trade debtors has increased almost £600k which suggests to me that some of the Whiteman fee is coming in instalments.

One thing that I don’t really get is that our number of employees is apparently now nil. Maybe they’re now employees of Club Doncaster?

[big fat yorkshire pudding]

Nick it's the prior accounting period so won't include the whiteman sale and you wouldn't see the effect of a sale without the p&l etc anyway.

These accounts these days don't tell us much.

[GazLaz]

What does the £33m debt relate to?

[big fat yorkshire pudding]

There isn't a debt of that size?  You might be looking at the reserves element which is essentially the aggregated losses.  But that's not debt, the debts are really quite small (listed under creditors).

[graingrover]

We always have to bear in mind the benevolence of our owners who have an excellent track record of converting  debt to equity knowing that the only return of that investment would come from the sale of the company for that accumulated equity .

[NickDRFC]

Nick it's the prior accounting period so won't include the whiteman sale and you wouldn't see the effect of a sale without the p&l etc anyway.

These accounts these days don't tell us much.

D’oh of course! Too early in the morning for commenting, I meant the Marquis sale which was July 19 therefore within that financial year.

You wouldn’t see anything on the face of the P&L but full accounts would have segmental reporting on revenue, split between matchday  income, commercial income, broadcasting etc. You’d see revenue from player sales in there.

[Metalmicky]

The sale of Whiteman may have been a timely interjection of cash for the club and helped to balance things at a rough time...

[Redandwhite]

Very poor form publishing abbreviated accounts .
Especially after everything the fans have done for the club in the last 18 months .

Very disappointing

[silent majority]

The VSC have seen the full accounts, as committed to by the club under the terms of the MOU.

We will be publishing our report, as usual, once we’ve had the Q&A with the club.

[Redandwhite]

We always have to bear in mind the benevolence of our owners who have an excellent track record of converting  debt to equity knowing that the only return of that investment would come from the sale of the company for that accumulated equity .

Which is what every owner/ benefactor does to make sure they get their money back when the club sells .

I have a suspicion it won't be far off, given the age of TB.

[Redandwhite]

The VSC have seen the full accounts, as committed to by the club under the terms of the MOU.

We will be publishing our report, as usual, once we’ve had the Q&A with the club.

Will we have access to see the full set of accounts ?

[albie]

Some comment on key points here;
https://twitter.com/KieranMaguire/status/1409979505528217606

Not sufficient detail to allow full consideration.
The same twitter feed has a good analysis of Scunny accounts, much more fine grain.
https://twitter.com/KieranMaguire/status/1410341360276758528

The EFL really needs to make sure members issue full accounts, for reasons of transparency.
DRFC have not done anything they should not here, but others use short accounts as a way of avoiding proper scrutiny.

[GazLaz]

We always have to bear in mind the benevolence of our owners who have an excellent track record of converting  debt to equity knowing that the only return of that investment would come from the sale of the company for that accumulated equity .

Which is what every owner/ benefactor does to make sure they get their money back when the club sells .

I have a suspicion it won't be far off, given the age of TB.

Are you drunk? TB has probably put £15m or more of his own money into the club, do you really think he converts that into shares with a hope of getting it back one day? I’ll tell you how much of that amount he will get back, zero pounds and zero pence.

[albie]

Hoden has done a summary in the DFP;
https://www.doncasterfreepress.co.uk/sport/football/doncaster-rovers-accounts-latest-filings-and-why-rovers-ps34m-losses-are-nothing-to-be-concerned-about-3292303

[Redandwhite]

We always have to bear in mind the benevolence of our owners who have an excellent track record of converting  debt to equity knowing that the only return of that investment would come from the sale of the company for that accumulated equity .

Which is what every owner/ benefactor does to make sure they get their money back when the club sells .

I have a suspicion it won't be far off, given the age of TB.

Are you drunk? TB has probably put £15m or more of his own money into the club, do you really think he converts that into shares with a hope of getting it back one day? I’ll tell you how much of that amount he will get back, zero pounds and zero pence.

I'm not drunk. Your deluded if you think otherwise .

Why convert it to shares ?
Why not write the loan off ?

You base your statement on nothing whatsoever .

I wasn't having a dig, just stating a fact. 

[big fat yorkshire pudding]

We always have to bear in mind the benevolence of our owners who have an excellent track record of converting  debt to equity knowing that the only return of that investment would come from the sale of the company for that accumulated equity .

Which is what every owner/ benefactor does to make sure they get their money back when the club sells .

I have a suspicion it won't be far off, given the age of TB.

Are you drunk? TB has probably put £15m or more of his own money into the club, do you really think he converts that into shares with a hope of getting it back one day? I’ll tell you how much of that amount he will get back, zero pounds and zero pence.

I'm not drunk. Your deluded if you think otherwise .

Why convert it to shares ?
Why not write the loan off ?

You base your statement on nothing whatsoever .

I wasn't having a dig, just stating a fact. 

It would be incredibly bad business and accounting. The write off would produce a credit to p&l thus increase profit.  A £6m profit would incur a fairly hefty tax charge costing substantial sums.  It's standard business practice to convert to equity.  Whether they have 34million shares or 3 shares makes no odds they still get the same money at the point of sale (probably f**k all).

[Redandwhite]

We always have to bear in mind the benevolence of our owners who have an excellent track record of converting  debt to equity knowing that the only return of that investment would come from the sale of the company for that accumulated equity .

Which is what every owner/ benefactor does to make sure they get their money back when the club sells .

I have a suspicion it won't be far off, given the age of TB.

Are you drunk? TB has probably put £15m or more of his own money into the club, do you really think he converts that into shares with a hope of getting it back one day? I’ll tell you how much of that amount he will get back, zero pounds and zero pence.

I'm not drunk. Your deluded if you think otherwise .

Why convert it to shares ?
Why not write the loan off ?

You base your statement on nothing whatsoever .

I wasn't having a dig, just stating a fact. 

It would be incredibly bad business and accounting. The write off would produce a credit to p&l thus increase profit.  A £6m profit would incur a fairly hefty tax charge costing substantial sums.  It's standard business practice to convert to equity.  Whether they have 34million shares or 3 shares makes no odds they still get the same money at the point of sale (probably f**k all).

If the owners wanted to put money in with no strings attached, there are a multitude of ways of doing it without creating more shares .

They have created the shares to protect their money/ investment. 
Same as most owners, as when the club gets sold they have more shares to sell and negotiate the price of

[silent majority]

We always have to bear in mind the benevolence of our owners who have an excellent track record of converting  debt to equity knowing that the only return of that investment would come from the sale of the company for that accumulated equity .

Which is what every owner/ benefactor does to make sure they get their money back when the club sells .

I have a suspicion it won't be far off, given the age of TB.

Are you drunk? TB has probably put £15m or more of his own money into the club, do you really think he converts that into shares with a hope of getting it back one day? I’ll tell you how much of that amount he will get back, zero pounds and zero pence.

I'm not drunk. Your deluded if you think otherwise .

Why convert it to shares ?
Why not write the loan off ?

You base your statement on nothing whatsoever .

I wasn't having a dig, just stating a fact. 

It would be incredibly bad business and accounting. The write off would produce a credit to p&l thus increase profit.  A £6m profit would incur a fairly hefty tax charge costing substantial sums.  It's standard business practice to convert to equity.  Whether they have 34million shares or 3 shares makes no odds they still get the same money at the point of sale (probably f**k all).

If the owners wanted to put money in with no strings attached, there are a multitude of ways of doing it without creating more shares .

They have created the shares to protect their money/ investment. 
Same as most owners, as when the club gets sold they have more shares to sell and negotiate the price of

You my friend, are a financial illiterate.

[big fat yorkshire pudding]

We always have to bear in mind the benevolence of our owners who have an excellent track record of converting  debt to equity knowing that the only return of that investment would come from the sale of the company for that accumulated equity .

Which is what every owner/ benefactor does to make sure they get their money back when the club sells .

I have a suspicion it won't be far off, given the age of TB.

Are you drunk? TB has probably put £15m or more of his own money into the club, do you really think he converts that into shares with a hope of getting it back one day? I’ll tell you how much of that amount he will get back, zero pounds and zero pence.

I'm not drunk. Your deluded if you think otherwise .

Why convert it to shares ?
Why not write the loan off ?

You base your statement on nothing whatsoever .

I wasn't having a dig, just stating a fact. 

It would be incredibly bad business and accounting. The write off would produce a credit to p&l thus increase profit.  A £6m profit would incur a fairly hefty tax charge costing substantial sums.  It's standard business practice to convert to equity.  Whether they have 34million shares or 3 shares makes no odds they still get the same money at the point of sale (probably f**k all).

If the owners wanted to put money in with no strings attached, there are a multitude of ways of doing it without creating more shares .

They have created the shares to protect their money/ investment. 
Same as most owners, as when the club gets sold they have more shares to sell and negotiate the price of

What are these multitude of other methods that are simple and easy.

Forgive me but you seem to lack a grasp as to how share valuations etc work?

[Redandwhite]

We always have to bear in mind the benevolence of our owners who have an excellent track record of converting  debt to equity knowing that the only return of that investment would come from the sale of the company for that accumulated equity .

Which is what every owner/ benefactor does to make sure they get their money back when the club sells .

I have a suspicion it won't be far off, given the age of TB.

Are you drunk? TB has probably put £15m or more of his own money into the club, do you really think he converts that into shares with a hope of getting it back one day? I’ll tell you how much of that amount he will get back, zero pounds and zero pence.

I'm not drunk. Your deluded if you think otherwise .

Why convert it to shares ?
Why not write the loan off ?

You base your statement on nothing whatsoever .

I wasn't having a dig, just stating a fact. 

It would be incredibly bad business and accounting. The write off would produce a credit to p&l thus increase profit.  A £6m profit would incur a fairly hefty tax charge costing substantial sums.  It's standard business practice to convert to equity.  Whether they have 34million shares or 3 shares makes no odds they still get the same money at the point of sale (probably f**k all).

If the owners wanted to put money in with no strings attached, there are a multitude of ways of doing it without creating more shares .

They have created the shares to protect their money/ investment. 
Same as most owners, as when the club gets sold they have more shares to sell and negotiate the price of

You my friend, are a financial illiterate.

1. I'm not
2. I'd rather be that than a social illiterate like you .

[Redandwhite]

We always have to bear in mind the benevolence of our owners who have an excellent track record of converting  debt to equity knowing that the only return of that investment would come from the sale of the company for that accumulated equity .

Which is what every owner/ benefactor does to make sure they get their money back when the club sells .

I have a suspicion it won't be far off, given the age of TB.

Are you drunk? TB has probably put £15m or more of his own money into the club, do you really think he converts that into shares with a hope of getting it back one day? I’ll tell you how much of that amount he will get back, zero pounds and zero pence.

I'm not drunk. Your deluded if you think otherwise .

Why convert it to shares ?
Why not write the loan off ?

You base your statement on nothing whatsoever .

I wasn't having a dig, just stating a fact. 

It would be incredibly bad business and accounting. The write off would produce a credit to p&l thus increase profit.  A £6m profit would incur a fairly hefty tax charge costing substantial sums.  It's standard business practice to convert to equity.  Whether they have 34million shares or 3 shares makes no odds they still get the same money at the point of sale (probably f**k all).

If the owners wanted to put money in with no strings attached, there are a multitude of ways of doing it without creating more shares .

They have created the shares to protect their money/ investment. 
Same as most owners, as when the club gets sold they have more shares to sell and negotiate the price of

What are these multitude of other methods that are simple and easy.

Forgive me but you seem to lack a grasp as to how share valuations etc work?

Your the one accusing me of being incorrect, so you prove to me how TB won't get his money back .

If your not aware of other ways of getting money into clubs, then your probably not as well read as some in the know .

[ravenrover]

Wriggling a bit there lad

[vaya]

We always have to bear in mind the benevolence of our owners who have an excellent track record of converting  debt to equity knowing that the only return of that investment would come from the sale of the company for that accumulated equity .

Which is what every owner/ benefactor does to make sure they get their money back when the club sells .

I have a suspicion it won't be far off, given the age of TB.

Are you drunk? TB has probably put £15m or more of his own money into the club, do you really think he converts that into shares with a hope of getting it back one day? I’ll tell you how much of that amount he will get back, zero pounds and zero pence.

I'm not drunk. Your deluded if you think otherwise .

Why convert it to shares ?
Why not write the loan off ?

You base your statement on nothing whatsoever .

I wasn't having a dig, just stating a fact. 

It would be incredibly bad business and accounting. The write off would produce a credit to p&l thus increase profit.  A £6m profit would incur a fairly hefty tax charge costing substantial sums.  It's standard business practice to convert to equity.  Whether they have 34million shares or 3 shares makes no odds they still get the same money at the point of sale (probably f**k all).

If the owners wanted to put money in with no strings attached, there are a multitude of ways of doing it without creating more shares .

They have created the shares to protect their money/ investment. 
Same as most owners, as when the club gets sold they have more shares to sell and negotiate the price of

What are these multitude of other methods that are simple and easy.

Forgive me but you seem to lack a grasp as to how share valuations etc work?

Your the one accusing me of being incorrect, so you prove to me how TB won't get his money back .

If your not aware of other ways of getting money into clubs, then your probably not as well read as some in the know .

Just let everyone know what these 'other ways' are so they can judge for themselves.

Seems the obvious thing to do.

[big fat yorkshire pudding]

We always have to bear in mind the benevolence of our owners who have an excellent track record of converting  debt to equity knowing that the only return of that investment would come from the sale of the company for that accumulated equity .

Which is what every owner/ benefactor does to make sure they get their money back when the club sells .

I have a suspicion it won't be far off, given the age of TB.

Are you drunk? TB has probably put £15m or more of his own money into the club, do you really think he converts that into shares with a hope of getting it back one day? I’ll tell you how much of that amount he will get back, zero pounds and zero pence.

I'm not drunk. Your deluded if you think otherwise .

Why convert it to shares ?
Why not write the loan off ?

You base your statement on nothing whatsoever .

I wasn't having a dig, just stating a fact. 

It would be incredibly bad business and accounting. The write off would produce a credit to p&l thus increase profit.  A £6m profit would incur a fairly hefty tax charge costing substantial sums.  It's standard business practice to convert to equity.  Whether they have 34million shares or 3 shares makes no odds they still get the same money at the point of sale (probably f**k all).

If the owners wanted to put money in with no strings attached, there are a multitude of ways of doing it without creating more shares .

They have created the shares to protect their money/ investment. 
Same as most owners, as when the club gets sold they have more shares to sell and negotiate the price of

What are these multitude of other methods that are simple and easy.

Forgive me but you seem to lack a grasp as to how share valuations etc work?

Your the one accusing me of being incorrect, so you prove to me how TB won't get his money back .

If your not aware of other ways of getting money into clubs, then your probably not as well read as some in the know .

Just let everyone know what these 'other ways' are so they can judge for themselves.

Seems the obvious thing to do.

This. I'm sure the owners would like to know how they can get their tens of millions of pounds back from a loss making company with next to no assets....

[DRNaith]

I was genuinely interested in reading the other methods.

[Redandwhite]

I don't blame tb for creating the shares . Its his money .

But to claim he will never get his money back is very wide of the mark .

It all depends on the negotiations with the buyers, and price per share .

If he didn't want the money back, he could pump it in without creating shares .
There's ways and means .  (For the record I don't like these ways )
I much prefer the way tb is doing it .

[DRNaith]

I don't blame tb for creating the shares . Its his money .

But to claim he will never get his money back is very wide of the mark .

It all depends on the negotiations with the buyers, and price per share .

If he didn't want the money back, he could pump it in without creating shares .
There's ways and means .  (For the record I don't like these ways )
I much prefer the way tb is doing it .

What are the ways and means that you don't like?

[Filo]

I don't blame tb for creating the shares . Its his money .

But to claim he will never get his money back is very wide of the mark .

It all depends on the negotiations with the buyers, and price per share .

If he didn't want the money back, he could pump it in without creating shares .
There's ways and means .  (For the record I don't like these ways )
I much prefer the way tb is doing it .

As explained further up the thread, just pumping money in creates a tax liability

[Redandwhite]

We always have to bear in mind the benevolence of our owners who have an excellent track record of converting  debt to equity knowing that the only return of that investment would come from the sale of the company for that accumulated equity .

Which is what every owner/ benefactor does to make sure they get their money back when the club sells .

I have a suspicion it won't be far off, given the age of TB.

Are you drunk? TB has probably put £15m or more of his own money into the club, do you really think he converts that into shares with a hope of getting it back one day? I’ll tell you how much of that amount he will get back, zero pounds and zero pence.

I'm not drunk. Your deluded if you think otherwise .

Why convert it to shares ?
Why not write the loan off ?

You base your statement on nothing whatsoever .

I wasn't having a dig, just stating a fact. 

It would be incredibly bad business and accounting. The write off would produce a credit to p&l thus increase profit.  A £6m profit would incur a fairly hefty tax charge costing substantial sums.  It's standard business practice to convert to equity.  Whether they have 34million shares or 3 shares makes no odds they still get the same money at the point of sale (probably f**k all).

If the owners wanted to put money in with no strings attached, there are a multitude of ways of doing it without creating more shares .

They have created the shares to protect their money/ investment. 
Same as most owners, as when the club gets sold they have more shares to sell and negotiate the price of

What are these multitude of other methods that are simple and easy.

Forgive me but you seem to lack a grasp as to how share valuations etc work?

Your the one accusing me of being incorrect, so you prove to me how TB won't get his money back .

If your not aware of other ways of getting money into clubs, then your probably not as well read as some in the know .

Just let everyone know what these 'other ways' are so they can judge for themselves.

Seems the obvious thing to do.

This. I'm sure the owners would like to know how they can get their tens of millions of pounds back from a loss making company with next to no assets....

They will be aware, hence the shares .

It's down to the negotiations with the buyers, on the price of each share .
The club isn't a plc, so it's all in the negotiation .

Tb might not get all of his money back, but he's got a very good chance of getting most/all of it back , he could even make a profit .