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Increasing the number of shares of a company doesn't increase the value of the company, it decreases the value of the existing shares.
Quote from: Glyn_Wigley on July 01, 2021, 01:57:35 pmIncreasing the number of shares of a company doesn't increase the value of the company, it decreases the value of the existing shares. So how much is a single share worth ?
Quote from: Muttley on July 01, 2021, 08:42:52 pmR&W, you've actually got it completely the wrong way round - debt essentially needs to be repaid, shares have a value which is determined by the value of the company and a loss making 3rd tier football club with no assets is effectively worth noting.By converting the debt to equity, TB & co are giving up their millions being returned.Not sure I follow that . He's loaned the club money, effectively got paid back in shares . Tb has now more shares which have a value, which is negotiable to any future buyer . Part of the negotiable value, is the future potential of the club . Again to say tb won't get a penny back is simply wrong .
R&W, you've actually got it completely the wrong way round - debt essentially needs to be repaid, shares have a value which is determined by the value of the company and a loss making 3rd tier football club with no assets is effectively worth noting.By converting the debt to equity, TB & co are giving up their millions being returned.
Quote from: since-1969 on July 02, 2021, 10:15:23 amQuote from: Glyn_Wigley on July 01, 2021, 01:57:35 pmIncreasing the number of shares of a company doesn't increase the value of the company, it decreases the value of the existing shares. So how much is a single share worth ? The value of the company divided by the number of shares. That's what they're worth each. As Nick pointed out.
Quote from: Glyn_Wigley on July 02, 2021, 10:29:22 amQuote from: since-1969 on July 02, 2021, 10:15:23 amQuote from: Glyn_Wigley on July 01, 2021, 01:57:35 pmIncreasing the number of shares of a company doesn't increase the value of the company, it decreases the value of the existing shares. So how much is a single share worth ? The value of the company divided by the number of shares. That's what they're worth each. As Nick pointed out.Q) if Rovers were to apply to float on the stock market ..would it sink ?
Quote from: Redandwhite on July 02, 2021, 09:01:16 amQuote from: Muttley on July 01, 2021, 08:42:52 pmR&W, you've actually got it completely the wrong way round - debt essentially needs to be repaid, shares have a value which is determined by the value of the company and a loss making 3rd tier football club with no assets is effectively worth noting.By converting the debt to equity, TB & co are giving up their millions being returned.Not sure I follow that . He's loaned the club money, effectively got paid back in shares . Tb has now more shares which have a value, which is negotiable to any future buyer . Part of the negotiable value, is the future potential of the club . Again to say tb won't get a penny back is simply wrong . Debt has a defined value (and, normally, defined repayment terms).Equity has a value that is ultimately determined by what someone is prepared to pay for it - as everyone else on this thread realises, that value is most likely a very low figure, definitely nothing like the millions that has been sunk into the club.
Quote from: Muttley on July 02, 2021, 05:15:20 pmQuote from: Redandwhite on July 02, 2021, 09:01:16 amQuote from: Muttley on July 01, 2021, 08:42:52 pmR&W, you've actually got it completely the wrong way round - debt essentially needs to be repaid, shares have a value which is determined by the value of the company and a loss making 3rd tier football club with no assets is effectively worth noting.By converting the debt to equity, TB & co are giving up their millions being returned.Not sure I follow that . He's loaned the club money, effectively got paid back in shares . Tb has now more shares which have a value, which is negotiable to any future buyer . Part of the negotiable value, is the future potential of the club . Again to say tb won't get a penny back is simply wrong . Debt has a defined value (and, normally, defined repayment terms).Equity has a value that is ultimately determined by what someone is prepared to pay for it - as everyone else on this thread realises, that value is most likely a very low figure, definitely nothing like the millions that has been sunk into the club.Seem to be getting somewhere here . Tb has shares The shares have a value If tb sells, he might make a loss, break even or make a profit. So a blanket statement of he won't get a penny back isn't correct .
Quote from: Redandwhite on July 02, 2021, 09:01:16 amQuote from: Muttley on July 01, 2021, 08:42:52 pmR&W, you've actually got it completely the wrong way round - debt essentially needs to be repaid, shares have a value which is determined by the value of the company and a loss making 3rd tier football club with no assets is effectively worth noting.By converting the debt to equity, TB & co are giving up their millions being returned.Not sure I follow that . He's loaned the club money, effectively got paid back in shares . Tb has now more shares which have a value, which is negotiable to any future buyer . Part of the negotiable value, is the future potential of the club . Again to say tb won't get a penny back is simply wrong . Debt has a defined value (and, normally, defined repayment terms).Equity has a value that is ultimately determined by what someone is prepared to pay for it - as everyone else on this thread realises, that value is most likely a very low figure, definitely nothing like the millions that has been sunk into the club.
Quote from: Muttley on July 01, 2021, 08:42:52 pmR&W, you've actually got it completely the wrong way round - debt essentially needs to be repaid, shares have a value which is determined by the value of the company and a loss making 3rd tier football club with no assets is effectively worth noting.By converting the debt to equity, TB & co are giving up their millions being returned.Not sure I follow that . He's loaned the club money, effectively got paid back in shares . Tb has now more shares which have a value, which is negotiable to any future buyer . Part of the negotiable value, is the future potential of the club . Again to say tb won't get a penny back is simply wrong .
R&W, you've actually got it completely the wrong way round - debt essentially needs to be repaid, shares have a value which is determined by the value of the company and a loss making 3rd tier football club with no assets is effectively worth noting.By converting the debt to equity, TB & co are giving up their millions being returned.
. We were often told that the club doesn’t have any debts ? Well £34m ploughed and still growing without promotion to the Championship isn’t going to alter or repaid soon through the turnstiles!!The board are stubborn but practical. I’m very disappointed at last seasons finish as I do believe it was a huge opportunity missed and promotion would have gone a long way to helping their cash flow and they must know that they threw it away . Good luck to Wellens but I’ve had my last season !!
Quote from: Redandwhite on July 03, 2021, 06:43:24 pmQuote from: Muttley on July 02, 2021, 05:15:20 pmQuote from: Redandwhite on July 02, 2021, 09:01:16 amQuote from: Muttley on July 01, 2021, 08:42:52 pmR&W, you've actually got it completely the wrong way round - debt essentially needs to be repaid, shares have a value which is determined by the value of the company and a loss making 3rd tier football club with no assets is effectively worth noting.By converting the debt to equity, TB & co are giving up their millions being returned.Not sure I follow that . He's loaned the club money, effectively got paid back in shares . Tb has now more shares which have a value, which is negotiable to any future buyer . Part of the negotiable value, is the future potential of the club . Again to say tb won't get a penny back is simply wrong . Debt has a defined value (and, normally, defined repayment terms).Equity has a value that is ultimately determined by what someone is prepared to pay for it - as everyone else on this thread realises, that value is most likely a very low figure, definitely nothing like the millions that has been sunk into the club.Seem to be getting somewhere here . Tb has shares The shares have a value If tb sells, he might make a loss, break even or make a profit. So a blanket statement of he won't get a penny back isn't correct . Do you actually believe that every year that they put £2m into the club the value of their shares goes up £2m too? *facepalm*
Quote from: Redandwhite on July 03, 2021, 06:43:24 pmQuote from: Muttley on July 02, 2021, 05:15:20 pmQuote from: Redandwhite on July 02, 2021, 09:01:16 amQuote from: Muttley on July 01, 2021, 08:42:52 pmR&W, you've actually got it completely the wrong way round - debt essentially needs to be repaid, shares have a value which is determined by the value of the company and a loss making 3rd tier football club with no assets is effectively worth noting.By converting the debt to equity, TB & co are giving up their millions being returned.Not sure I follow that . He's loaned the club money, effectively got paid back in shares . Tb has now more shares which have a value, which is negotiable to any future buyer . Part of the negotiable value, is the future potential of the club . Again to say tb won't get a penny back is simply wrong . Debt has a defined value (and, normally, defined repayment terms).Equity has a value that is ultimately determined by what someone is prepared to pay for it - as everyone else on this thread realises, that value is most likely a very low figure, definitely nothing like the millions that has been sunk into the club.Seem to be getting somewhere here . Tb has shares The shares have a value If tb sells, he might make a loss, break even or make a profit. So a blanket statement of he won't get a penny back isn't correct . How much do you think shares in a loss-making third tier club that doesn't own it's own ground are currently worth? - round numbers will do.
Quote from: vaya on July 03, 2021, 06:59:09 pmQuote from: Redandwhite on July 03, 2021, 06:43:24 pmQuote from: Muttley on July 02, 2021, 05:15:20 pmQuote from: Redandwhite on July 02, 2021, 09:01:16 amQuote from: Muttley on July 01, 2021, 08:42:52 pmR&W, you've actually got it completely the wrong way round - debt essentially needs to be repaid, shares have a value which is determined by the value of the company and a loss making 3rd tier football club with no assets is effectively worth noting.By converting the debt to equity, TB & co are giving up their millions being returned.Not sure I follow that . He's loaned the club money, effectively got paid back in shares . Tb has now more shares which have a value, which is negotiable to any future buyer . Part of the negotiable value, is the future potential of the club . Again to say tb won't get a penny back is simply wrong . Debt has a defined value (and, normally, defined repayment terms).Equity has a value that is ultimately determined by what someone is prepared to pay for it - as everyone else on this thread realises, that value is most likely a very low figure, definitely nothing like the millions that has been sunk into the club.Seem to be getting somewhere here . Tb has shares The shares have a value If tb sells, he might make a loss, break even or make a profit. So a blanket statement of he won't get a penny back isn't correct . How much do you think shares in a loss-making third tier club that doesn't own it's own ground are currently worth? - round numbers will do.My god, wake up . Re read my posts and understand the point I'm making .
Quote from: Redandwhite on July 03, 2021, 06:43:24 pmQuote from: Muttley on July 02, 2021, 05:15:20 pmQuote from: Redandwhite on July 02, 2021, 09:01:16 amQuote from: Muttley on July 01, 2021, 08:42:52 pmR&W, you've actually got it completely the wrong way round - debt essentially needs to be repaid, shares have a value which is determined by the value of the company and a loss making 3rd tier football club with no assets is effectively worth noting.By converting the debt to equity, TB & co are giving up their millions being returned.Not sure I follow that . He's loaned the club money, effectively got paid back in shares . Tb has now more shares which have a value, which is negotiable to any future buyer . Part of the negotiable value, is the future potential of the club . Again to say tb won't get a penny back is simply wrong . Debt has a defined value (and, normally, defined repayment terms).Equity has a value that is ultimately determined by what someone is prepared to pay for it - as everyone else on this thread realises, that value is most likely a very low figure, definitely nothing like the millions that has been sunk into the club.Seem to be getting somewhere here . Tb has shares The shares have a value If tb sells, he might make a loss, break even or make a profit. So a blanket statement of he won't get a penny back isn't correct . How much do you think shares in a loss-making third tier club that doesn't own it's own ground are currently worth? - round numbers will do.
Quote from: Muttley on July 02, 2021, 05:15:20 pmQuote from: Redandwhite on July 02, 2021, 09:01:16 amQuote from: Muttley on July 01, 2021, 08:42:52 pmR&W, you've actually got it completely the wrong way round - debt essentially needs to be repaid, shares have a value which is determined by the value of the company and a loss making 3rd tier football club with no assets is effectively worth noting.By converting the debt to equity, TB & co are giving up their millions being returned.Not sure I follow that . He's loaned the club money, effectively got paid back in shares . Tb has now more shares which have a value, which is negotiable to any future buyer . Part of the negotiable value, is the future potential of the club . Again to say tb won't get a penny back is simply wrong . Debt has a defined value (and, normally, defined repayment terms).Equity has a value that is ultimately determined by what someone is prepared to pay for it - as everyone else on this thread realises, that value is most likely a very low figure, definitely nothing like the millions that has been sunk into the club.Seem to be getting somewhere here . Tb has shares The shares have a value If tb sells, he might make a loss, break even or make a profit. So a blanket statement of he won't get a penny back isn't correct .
Quote from: Redandwhite on July 02, 2021, 09:01:16 amQuote from: Muttley on July 01, 2021, 08:42:52 pmR&W, you've actually got it completely the wrong way round - debt essentially needs to be repaid, shares have a value which is determined by the value of the company and a loss making 3rd tier football club with no assets is effectively worth noting.By converting the debt to equity, TB & co are giving up their millions being returned.Not sure I follow that . He's loaned the club money, effectively got paid back in shares . Tb has now more shares which have a value, which is negotiable to any future buyer . Part of the negotiable value, is the future potential of the club . Again to say tb won't get a penny back is simply wrong . Debt has a defined value (and, normally, defined repayment terms).Equity has a value that is ultimately determined by what someone is prepared to pay for it - as everyone else on this thread realises, that value is most likely a very low figure, definitely nothing like the millions that has been sunk into the club.
Quote from: Muttley on July 01, 2021, 08:42:52 pmR&W, you've actually got it completely the wrong way round - debt essentially needs to be repaid, shares have a value which is determined by the value of the company and a loss making 3rd tier football club with no assets is effectively worth noting.By converting the debt to equity, TB & co are giving up their millions being returned.Not sure I follow that . He's loaned the club money, effectively got paid back in shares . Tb has now more shares which have a value, which is negotiable to any future buyer . Part of the negotiable value, is the future potential of the club . Again to say tb won't get a penny back is simply wrong .
R&W, you've actually got it completely the wrong way round - debt essentially needs to be repaid, shares have a value which is determined by the value of the company and a loss making 3rd tier football club with no assets is effectively worth noting.By converting the debt to equity, TB & co are giving up their millions being returned.
Quote from: since-1969 on July 03, 2021, 10:11:35 pm . We were often told that the club doesn’t have any debts ? Well £34m ploughed and still growing without promotion to the Championship isn’t going to alter or repaid soon through the turnstiles!!The board are stubborn but practical. I’m very disappointed at last seasons finish as I do believe it was a huge opportunity missed and promotion would have gone a long way to helping their cash flow and they must know that they threw it away . Good luck to Wellens but I’ve had my last season !!£34 million converted into equity ISN'T a debt!!
This is ridiculous. Somebody on here has moved his position 180 degrees since it was pointed out what a financial misunderstanding he was making. From suggesting that TB was manoeuvring the finances to suit himself it’s now apparent that that’s not happening and no realistic argument will say otherwise.Let’s not forget the VSC have approx 120,000 shares in Club Doncaster, bought at a cost of approx £120,000.Today that investment is worth virtually nothing. So much for redandwhites argument about being in control of share value.
Quote from: since-1969 on July 03, 2021, 10:11:35 pm . We were often told that the club doesn’t have any debts ? Well £34m ploughed and still growing without promotion to the Championship isn’t going to alter or repaid soon through the turnstiles!!The board are stubborn but practical. I’m very disappointed at last seasons finish as I do believe it was a huge opportunity missed and promotion would have gone a long way to helping their cash flow and they must know that they threw it away . Good luck to Wellens but I’ve had my last season !!You say they threw it away. I take it by "they", you mean the board? If so, can you explain in detail why you think that?You see, from where I'm sitting the season was thrown away by crap signings in January by an overrated manager who'd had his head turned, and a load of loan players who didn't give a f*ck about the club.
Quote from: scawsby steve on July 04, 2021, 04:31:50 pmQuote from: since-1969 on July 03, 2021, 10:11:35 pm . We were often told that the club doesn’t have any debts ? Well £34m ploughed and still growing without promotion to the Championship isn’t going to alter or repaid soon through the turnstiles!!The board are stubborn but practical. I’m very disappointed at last seasons finish as I do believe it was a huge opportunity missed and promotion would have gone a long way to helping their cash flow and they must know that they threw it away . Good luck to Wellens but I’ve had my last season !!You say they threw it away. I take it by "they", you mean the board? If so, can you explain in detail why you think that?You see, from where I'm sitting the season was thrown away by crap signings in January by an overrated manager who'd had his head turned, and a load of loan players who didn't give a f*ck about the club.What we didn’t know is last years budget had been reduced by 23%. Therefore loan players may have the only way to get better players in. Was it that DM could only use the value of Whiteman wages to get in two players that’s why we got Bogle and Bostock(who accepted less than he and his agent wanted). (