Dealing with anti-vaxxers should we follow Biden's lead?

[Ldr]

Btw I am not anti vax having had both myself. I am very anti the draconian measures been enforced / proposed. I will never get a vaccine passport

[Ldr]

Bless, you still think all this is about a virus

f**king hell, when did David Icke join the forum?

Put jew instead of unvaccinated and see if you are still comfortable with what’s going on

They want the Jews to either become vaccinated or take a weekly test for Covid so to protect everyone and to hopefully root out a virus killing thousands?

You’re happy with the concept of mandatory vaccinations and the segregation of society? You are happy with the march towards a medical apartheid? You’re happy with this in the name of a virus that most people don’t know they have unless tested? You’re happy with this in the face of the increased risks documented for teenagers, especially male teenagers? Ever asked yourself how they got away with their policies in Germany in the 30s? All you have to do is look in the mirror. Yes there is a virus killing people, no it is not as deadly as the perception people have is. The vast, vast majority of deaths were in people that had co-morbidities. I would wager that COVID alone has killed no more than 5k in the uk, the rest it’s broke the camels back, severe influenza can do the same. The measures far outweigh the problem which is why I object. Imagine going after a fly with a bazooka

I'm not even going to reply to this post as you're clearly an idiot.

Full of class as always DO

[DonnyOsmond]

Btw I am not anti vax having had both myself. I am very anti the draconian measures been enforced / proposed. I will never get a vaccine passport

Why did you get vaccinated for something that "only killed 5k people in the UK"?

[Ldr]

Btw I am not anti vax having had both myself. I am very anti the draconian measures been enforced / proposed. I will never get a vaccine passport

Why did you get vaccinated for something that "only killed 5k people in the UK"?

I have a suppressed immune system, so same reason I get the flu jab every year

[sha66y]

Bless, you still think all this is about a virus

f**king hell, when did David Icke join the forum?

Are you saying you are not prepared to look beyond this insinuation?

People tend to wheel out the David Icke and Conspiracy angle when a nerve is touched……

Just out of interest and a genuine question to boot:
Where do you think this Virus originated and how?…….go on….have a go!

Potentially in a lab in Wuhan. Although, we may never know. The main point right now is killing the virus off.

All this tech, all this know how and the W.H.O… said “ move along please….nothing to see here”….
The main point is making sure those responsible for the first experiment don’t get away with there “ final solution” …..

[DonnyOsmond]

Bless, you still think all this is about a virus

f**king hell, when did David Icke join the forum?

Put jew instead of unvaccinated and see if you are still comfortable with what’s going on

They want the Jews to either become vaccinated or take a weekly test for Covid so to protect everyone and to hopefully root out a virus killing thousands?

You’re happy with the concept of mandatory vaccinations and the segregation of society? You are happy with the march towards a medical apartheid? You’re happy with this in the name of a virus that most people don’t know they have unless tested? You’re happy with this in the face of the increased risks documented for teenagers, especially male teenagers? Ever asked yourself how they got away with their policies in Germany in the 30s? All you have to do is look in the mirror. Yes there is a virus killing people, no it is not as deadly as the perception people have is. The vast, vast majority of deaths were in people that had co-morbidities. I would wager that COVID alone has killed no more than 5k in the uk, the rest it’s broke the camels back, severe influenza can do the same. The measures far outweigh the problem which is why I object. Imagine going after a fly with a bazooka

I'm not even going to reply to this post as you're clearly an idiot.

Full of class as always DO

Read your post. It's you who lacks class. Put yourself in the shoes of someone who has lost family members to Covid and why they wouldn't want to respond to such a ridiculous post...

[BillyStubbsTears]

The co-morbidities argument is a disgusting smokescreen for justifying premature deaths by people who think being asked to wear a mask is a symbol of totalitarianism.

My mother has high blood pressure and has had a heart attack. She's 80 but is otherwise in excellent health. She's active in her community and church. She regularly sees her grandkids. She drives. She travels. She reads widely. She visits friends. There is no reason why she shouldn't have decent health and quality of life for several years to come.

But she has co-morbidities. If she died of COVID tomorrow, you, Ldr would say she was just low hanging fruit.

[Ldr]

The co-morbidities argument is a disgusting smokescreen for justifying premature deaths by people who think being asked to wear a mask is a symbol of totalitarianism.

My mother has high blood pressure and has had a heart attack. She's 80 but is otherwise in excellent health. She's active in her community and church. She regularly sees her grandkids. There is no reason why she shouldn't have decent health for several years to come.

But she has co-morbidities. If she died of COVID tomorrow, you, Ldrwould sat she was just low hanging fruit.

Statistically I’d stand by that, I don’t judge things like this emotionally. In my line of work It would be hard if emotion clouded judgement

[Ldr]

Bless, you still think all this is about a virus

f**king hell, when did David Icke join the forum?

Put jew instead of unvaccinated and see if you are still comfortable with what’s going on

They want the Jews to either become vaccinated or take a weekly test for Covid so to protect everyone and to hopefully root out a virus killing thousands?

You’re happy with the concept of mandatory vaccinations and the segregation of society? You are happy with the march towards a medical apartheid? You’re happy with this in the name of a virus that most people don’t know they have unless tested? You’re happy with this in the face of the increased risks documented for teenagers, especially male teenagers? Ever asked yourself how they got away with their policies in Germany in the 30s? All you have to do is look in the mirror. Yes there is a virus killing people, no it is not as deadly as the perception people have is. The vast, vast majority of deaths were in people that had co-morbidities. I would wager that COVID alone has killed no more than 5k in the uk, the rest it’s broke the camels back, severe influenza can do the same. The measures far outweigh the problem which is why I object. Imagine going after a fly with a bazooka

I'm not even going to reply to this post as you're clearly an idiot.

Full of class as always DO

Read your post. It's you who lacks class. Put yourself in the shoes of someone who has lost family members to Covid and why they wouldn't want to respond to such a ridiculous post...

Sorry for your loss DO but when it comes down to things like this I have to leave emotion at the door, it clouds judgement

[BillyStubbsTears]

10 life years per death.

10 years. There's a statistic for you.

Your argument is that 160k+ people each losing ten years off their lives is just one if those things.

Harold Shipman on steroids.

[sha66y]

You would wager that COVID has killed no more than 5k in the UK.

So you continue to ignore the ONS who say that the average COVID death cut a life short by 10 years.

You ignore that and you accuse those who have taken this seriously of being fascist supporters! The irony. You are turning a blind eye to the thick end of 2 million life years being lost.

BST, I don’t believe that a clearly intelligent person like yourself would trust the O.N.S as a valued means of information that can never truly be validated….

Surely the W.H.O who U turned on their investigation in Wuhan set the old gray bauble  whirring…….

It’s impossible to not know the source of a Pandemic !

[BillyStubbsTears]

Ldr.

You also appear to leave any sense of moral responsibility at the door. And any sense of proper assessment of the statistics come to that.

Here's a thought. When my mother had her heart attack last year, why didn't the NHS just shoo her away off home to die? After all, the cost of treating her cannot be justified by the economic output she will produce in her remaining years. That is the logical conclusion of your approach.

[Ldr]

10 life years per death.

10 years. There's a statistic for you.

Your argument is that 160k+ people each losing ten years off their lives is just one if those things.

Harold Shipman on steroids.

BST I respect your opinion and passion but refer you to the emotional comment above

[Ldr]

Ldr.

You also appear to leave any sense of moral responsibility at the door. And any sense of proper assessment of the statistics come to that.

Here's a thought. When my mother had her heart attack last year, why didn't the NHS just shoo her away off home to die? After all, the cost of treating her cannot be justified by the economic output she will produce in her remaining years. That is the logical conclusion of your approach.

At no stage have I mentioned economics so that’s not a valid argument at all

Though I can see your point I would disagree with it

[BillyStubbsTears]

Sha66y.

Stick to your racist trolling abuse of people with a background like my wife and kids. It's revolting but at least you're in your own cess pit of one there. Leave grown up discussions to grown ups.

[BillyStubbsTears]

Ldr.
Your entire point is based on the worth of 10 years of old life against the cost of action to save that life.

You by your own words have said that the "cost" of free requiring unvaccinated people to take weekly tests is not worth the benefit. The step from there to society believing that the economic cost of action to save an 80 year old's live is tiny.

[Ldr]

Ldr.
Your entire point is based on the worth of 10 years of old life against the cost of action to save that life.

You by your own words have said that the "cost" of free requiring unvaccinated people to take weekly tests is not worth the benefit. The step from there to society believing that the economic cost of action to save an 80 year old's live is tiny.

BST I have no issue for people to get vaccinated if they choose. I have issue with people being forced to do so. I have issue with people who choose not to get vaccinated beginning to be looked at as an underclass and to be segregated. If you want to go down the rabbit hole of this 10 years figure then yes. I would say the quality of life you MAY deprive a teenager if for the rest of their life is an action not worth it so someone elderly MAY live 10 more years. Taking emotion aside that is the logic of it. Yes there are a lot of ifs and mays there but that’s what it boils down to, sacrificing the young to save the elderly in that scenario. Coercion is never the answer you know that. I do see your point of view btw

[sha66y]

Sha66y.

Stick to your racist trolling abuse of people with a background like my wife and kids. It's revolting but at least you're in your own cess pit of one there. Leave grown up discussions to grown ups.

Oh dear …bless the sage!
You actually can’t answer that question about the origins of the Wuhan flu?
So you blow off a tirade , which at least brought a smile …..

And how was I to know your wife and kids are racist trolls?…..you only just mentioned it!

I never could work out how a self imposed educational Wiki-Google guy could be rattled……but this “Wuhan flu origins” question seems to have you running for cover…

This is your “shit or get off the pot” moment ………….or just ignore it and see how your credibility sits!

[DonnyOsmond]

No one is being forced to be vaccinated. In the case of the US you can remain unvaccinated but provide a recent negative test.

[sha66y]

No one is being forced to be vaccinated. In the case of the US you can remain unvaccinated but provide a recent negative test.

By HAVING to provide a recent negative test is still a civil liberties thing surely….?

[scawsby steve]

The co-morbidities argument is a disgusting smokescreen for justifying premature deaths by people who think being asked to wear a mask is a symbol of totalitarianism.

My mother has high blood pressure and has had a heart attack. She's 80 but is otherwise in excellent health. She's active in her community and church. She regularly sees her grandkids. She drives. She travels. She reads widely. She visits friends. There is no reason why she shouldn't have decent health and quality of life for several years to come.

But she has co-morbidities. If she died of COVID tomorrow, you, Ldr would say she was just low hanging fruit.

Your mother sounds like a wonderful person, BST. My mother had all the ailments in the world, but still lived while she was 91.

Keep the faith, mate.

[hstripes]

Governments enact laws that protect the well-being of their citizens. Any law restricts 'rights'. The electorate, if they don't like these laws, can vote out the Government at the next election.

It's illegal to drive a car on a public road in this country without insurance. Fascism?

It's illegal to drive a motor vehicle with a certain level of alcohol in your system. Fascism?

Requiring all workers to be vaccinated OR take a weekly test against Covid. Fascism?

Emphatically NO - it's a basic Governmental duty of care to the people, which can be challenged democratically should you disagree.

[Glyn_Wigley]

You would wager that COVID has killed no more than 5k in the UK.

So you continue to ignore the ONS who say that the average COVID death cut a life short by 10 years.

You ignore that and you accuse those who have taken this seriously of being fascist supporters! The irony. You are turning a blind eye to the thick end of 2 million life years being lost.

BST, I don’t believe that a clearly intelligent person like yourself would trust the O.N.S as a valued means of information that can never truly be validated….

Surely the W.H.O who U turned on their investigation in Wuhan set the old gray bauble  whirring…….

It’s impossible to not know the source of a Pandemic !

Really? So where did the post-WW1 flu pandemic and Hong Kong Flu pandemic originate from? I'm sure the world's scientific community would love to know at long last.

[sha66y]

You would wager that COVID has killed no more than 5k in the UK.

So you continue to ignore the ONS who say that the average COVID death cut a life short by 10 years.

You ignore that and you accuse those who have taken this seriously of being fascist supporters! The irony. You are turning a blind eye to the thick end of 2 million life years being lost.

BST, I don’t believe that a clearly intelligent person like yourself would trust the O.N.S as a valued means of information that can never truly be validated….

Surely the W.H.O who U turned on their investigation in Wuhan set the old gray bauble  whirring…….

It’s impossible to not know the source of a Pandemic !

Really? So where did the post-WW1 flu pandemic and Hong Kong Flu pandemic originate from? I'm sure the world's scientific community would love to know at long last.

I thought you would have known I was referring to the modern day,

with all our organisations and disease control measures plus the technology!

Maybe I should have worded the last line a little clearer and not expected too much?

[Glyn_Wigley]

You would wager that COVID has killed no more than 5k in the UK.

So you continue to ignore the ONS who say that the average COVID death cut a life short by 10 years.

You ignore that and you accuse those who have taken this seriously of being fascist supporters! The irony. You are turning a blind eye to the thick end of 2 million life years being lost.

BST, I don’t believe that a clearly intelligent person like yourself would trust the O.N.S as a valued means of information that can never truly be validated….

Surely the W.H.O who U turned on their investigation in Wuhan set the old gray bauble  whirring…….

It’s impossible to not know the source of a Pandemic !

Really? So where did the post-WW1 flu pandemic and Hong Kong Flu pandemic originate from? I'm sure the world's scientific community would love to know at long last.

I thought you would have known I was referring to the modern day,

with all our organisations and disease control measures plus the technology!

Maybe I should have worded the last line a little clearer and not expected too much?

Hong Kong flu was 1968, so when does 'the modern day' start? Does it include SARS in 2003? H1N1 in 2009? Ebola in 2015?

Perhaps you should have worded that last line not to say something is impossible when you have no idea whether it's true or not?

[sha66y]

You would wager that COVID has killed no more than 5k in the UK.

So you continue to ignore the ONS who say that the average COVID death cut a life short by 10 years.

You ignore that and you accuse those who have taken this seriously of being fascist supporters! The irony. You are turning a blind eye to the thick end of 2 million life years being lost.

BST, I don’t believe that a clearly intelligent person like yourself would trust the O.N.S as a valued means of information that can never truly be validated….

Surely the W.H.O who U turned on their investigation in Wuhan set the old gray bauble  whirring…….

It’s impossible to not know the source of a Pandemic !

Really? So where did the post-WW1 flu pandemic and Hong Kong Flu pandemic originate from? I'm sure the world's scientific community would love to know at long last.

I thought you would have known I was referring to the modern day,

with all our organisations and disease control measures plus the technology!

Maybe I should have worded the last line a little clearer and not expected too much?

Hong Kong flu was 1968, so when does 'the modern day' start? Does it include SARS in 2003? H1N1 in 2009? Ebola in 2015?

Perhaps you should have worded that last line not to say something is impossible when you have no idea whether it's true or not?

I was thinking natural not man made ……but a question to you Glyn …
Where do you think COVID-19 originated?

[Glyn_Wigley]

You would wager that COVID has killed no more than 5k in the UK.

So you continue to ignore the ONS who say that the average COVID death cut a life short by 10 years.

You ignore that and you accuse those who have taken this seriously of being fascist supporters! The irony. You are turning a blind eye to the thick end of 2 million life years being lost.

BST, I don’t believe that a clearly intelligent person like yourself would trust the O.N.S as a valued means of information that can never truly be validated….

Surely the W.H.O who U turned on their investigation in Wuhan set the old gray bauble  whirring…….

It’s impossible to not know the source of a Pandemic !

Really? So where did the post-WW1 flu pandemic and Hong Kong Flu pandemic originate from? I'm sure the world's scientific community would love to know at long last.

I thought you would have known I was referring to the modern day,

with all our organisations and disease control measures plus the technology!

Maybe I should have worded the last line a little clearer and not expected too much?

Hong Kong flu was 1968, so when does 'the modern day' start? Does it include SARS in 2003? H1N1 in 2009? Ebola in 2015?

Perhaps you should have worded that last line not to say something is impossible when you have no idea whether it's true or not?

I was thinking natural not man made ……but a question to you Glyn …
Where do you think COVID-19 originated?

1. I don't know.

2. My opinion about it is just as irrelevant as yours.

PS First case identification is not the same as origin.

Now I've answered your question, are you going to answer mine this time instead of ignoring it - when do you think 'the modern day' starts, and on what basis do you delineate that date?

[sha66y]

You would wager that COVID has killed no more than 5k in the UK.

So you continue to ignore the ONS who say that the average COVID death cut a life short by 10 years.

You ignore that and you accuse those who have taken this seriously of being fascist supporters! The irony. You are turning a blind eye to the thick end of 2 million life years being lost.

BST, I don’t believe that a clearly intelligent person like yourself would trust the O.N.S as a valued means of information that can never truly be validated….

Surely the W.H.O who U turned on their investigation in Wuhan set the old gray bauble  whirring…….

It’s impossible to not know the source of a Pandemic !

Really? So where did the post-WW1 flu pandemic and Hong Kong Flu pandemic originate from? I'm sure the world's scientific community would love to know at long last.

I thought you would have known I was referring to the modern day,

with all our organisations and disease control measures plus the technology!

Maybe I should have worded the last line a little clearer and not expected too much?

Hong Kong flu was 1968, so when does 'the modern day' start? Does it include SARS in 2003? H1N1 in 2009? Ebola in 2015?

Perhaps you should have worded that last line not to say something is impossible when you have no idea whether it's true or not?

I was thinking natural not man made ……but a question to you Glyn …
Where do you think COVID-19 originated?

1. I don't know.

2. My opinion about it is just as irrelevant as yours.

PS First case identification is not the same as origin.

Now I've answered your question, are you going to answer mine this time instead of ignoring it - when do you think 'the modern day' starts, and on what basis do you delineate that date?

In my opinion the modern day is still in transition Glyn,

I believe it started when the MSM groups not only took off, but other groups like Governments realised there was a way to get information out there quickly without going through a lot of ratification BS, and could get support for a negative action very quickly without ever having to step in front of a camera to explain it….
Regarding COVID-19 I do have a theory of my own that I jumped to quite quickly without the aid of Wiki or Google,

and your answers have only underlined my initial reaction to how a virus can have 2 points of impact yet be very far apart, and how because of this distance it was inevitable that that route would be a route for contagion…

I know the Genie is out the bottle and can never go back, I just hope that first one was the worst one and the others can be caught by their big toe and stuffed back in, and not sold to the highest bidder….( but that’s tip toeing far to close to conspiracy theorist for my liking….

[mugnapper]

My 90 year old Mum has been just been diagnosed with Covid. She's been double jabbed which I guess is why, instead of being in hospital on a ventilator, she's stood at the back door having a fag.

[sha66y]

My 90 year old Mum has been just been diagnosed with Covid. She's been double jabbed which I guess is why, instead of being in hospital on a ventilator, she's stood at the back door having a fag.

That could be my mam from in Denaby!