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There are many reasons we have a shortage. Retirement, covid, brexit, pay, and just plainly that people don’t want to drive lorries. I did it for 6 weeks in between careers. Shit hours, lonely work, unhealthy, crap pay.
The average age of a trucker in 2031 is 55. It’s not the most appealing of jobs. I can’t see there would be many 21 yr olds chomping at the bit to do this for a living . And the way drivers that have gone back to the eu are reported to have done so because they have better facilities in Europe for such and better pay too .
Quote from: normal rules on September 24, 2021, 10:48:22 amThe average age of a trucker in 2031 is 55. It’s not the most appealing of jobs. I can’t see there would be many 21 yr olds chomping at the bit to do this for a living . And the way drivers that have gone back to the eu are reported to have done so because they have better facilities in Europe for such and better pay too . It's symptomatic of a very log term structural problem that we have in our economy and society. Will Hutton wrote about it thirty years ago in "The State We're In" and not much has changed since. The basic issue is that our economy is run on the principle that shareholder value is sacrosanct. Companies have a duty to maximise the returns to shareholders. They don't have a duty to consider the strategic national interest, or the conditions of their workers, or the effect that their working practices have on people's lives. So, understandably, companies typically make decisions that maximise their share prices and dividends.This explains why we are having such severe problems with the gas price spike. Nowhere else in Europe is having this problem to the same level, because they all have bigger stores of gas, precisely to help them ride out short term price spikes.We used to have large stores. But 10 years ago, Centrica cut its storage capability by 70%, on the grounds that it was costing them too much and hitting profits. Short term company interest over long term national strategic interest.There are two ways you can curb the power of companies to make these decisions only in their own interests. The first is strong unions. Ones that can hold companies to task over pay and working conditions. So that people have better work-life balance and receive a fairer slice of the pie. But unions have been emasculated for 40 years. So that control on companies has gone. The second is Government regulation to force companies to act in the national interest. But we've lived in an age where Governments of both colours have wanted to rein back their involvement and let the market get on with it. And this is where we end up.If anyone is interested in this, I can't recommend Hutton's book highly enough. It's still as relevant now as when he wrote it.
Quote from: normal rules on September 24, 2021, 10:48:22 amThe average age of a trucker in 2031 is 55. It’s not the most appealing of jobs. I can’t see there would be many 21 yr olds chomping at the bit to do this for a living . And the way drivers that have gone back to the eu are reported to have done so because they have better facilities in Europe for such and better pay too . It's symptomatic of a very log term structural problem that we have in our economy and society. Will Hutton wrote about it thirty years ago in "The State We're In" and not much has changed since. The basic issue is that our economy is run on the principle that shareholder value is sacrosanct. Companies have a duty to maximise the returns to shareholders. They don't have a duty to consider the strategic national interest, or the conditions of their workers, or the effect that their working practices have on people's lives. So, understandably, companies typically make decisions that maximise their share prices and dividends.This explains why we are having such severe problems with the gas price spike. Nowhere else in Europe is having this problem to the same level, because they all have bigger stores of gas, precisely to help them ride out short term price spikes.We used to have large stores. But 10 years ago, Centrica cut its storage capability by 70%, on the grounds that it was costing them too much and hitting profits. Short term company interest over long term national strategic interest.There are two ways you can curb the power of companies to make these decisions only in their own interests. The first is strong unions. Ones that can hold companies to task over pay and working conditions. So that people have better work-life balance and receive a fairer slice of the pie. But unions have been emasculated for 40 years. So that control on companies has gone. The second is Government regulation to force companies to act in the national interest. But we've lived in an age where Governments of both colours have wanted to rein back their involvement and let the market get on with it. And this is where we end up.If anyone is interested in this, I can't recommend Hutton's book highly enough. It's still as relevant now as when he wrote it.
''Supply chain crisis: Tories poised to U-turn on foreign worker visasBoris Johnson believed to have overruled ministers unwilling to compromise on post-Brexit immigration as forecourt queues mount''Looks like Reverse Brexit on the way, fancy that aye?https://www.theguardian.com/business/2021/sep/24/supply-chain-crisis-tories-poised-turn-foreign-worker-visas
Quote from: SydneyRover on September 24, 2021, 10:38:53 pm''Supply chain crisis: Tories poised to U-turn on foreign worker visasBoris Johnson believed to have overruled ministers unwilling to compromise on post-Brexit immigration as forecourt queues mount''Looks like Reverse Brexit on the way, fancy that aye?https://www.theguardian.com/business/2021/sep/24/supply-chain-crisis-tories-poised-turn-foreign-worker-visasReverse brexit , wow thats an incredible statement even by your standards Sydney .The jobs crisis in certain sectors and free movement are two completely different things .You might also want to acknowledge that the HGV situation is also a European problem too , in short nobody in the numbers that the industry requires no longer want to do the job and who can blame them .As a solid Labour man that you claim to be surely you don't wish to see migrant labour exploited do you to fill the gaps ?Personally I think the migrants are in a good position to be attracted to the job crisis rhetoric .Yeh we'll come but not for the minimum wage .They are in an extremely good position and I sincerely hope they know that if visas are to be given to EU migrants .
Quote from: tyke1962 on September 24, 2021, 11:12:22 pmQuote from: SydneyRover on September 24, 2021, 10:38:53 pm''Supply chain crisis: Tories poised to U-turn on foreign worker visasBoris Johnson believed to have overruled ministers unwilling to compromise on post-Brexit immigration as forecourt queues mount''Looks like Reverse Brexit on the way, fancy that aye?https://www.theguardian.com/business/2021/sep/24/supply-chain-crisis-tories-poised-turn-foreign-worker-visasReverse brexit , wow thats an incredible statement even by your standards Sydney .The jobs crisis in certain sectors and free movement are two completely different things .You might also want to acknowledge that the HGV situation is also a European problem too , in short nobody in the numbers that the industry requires no longer want to do the job and who can blame them .As a solid Labour man that you claim to be surely you don't wish to see migrant labour exploited do you to fill the gaps ?Personally I think the migrants are in a good position to be attracted to the job crisis rhetoric .Yeh we'll come but not for the minimum wage .They are in an extremely good position and I sincerely hope they know that if visas are to be given to EU migrants .typical tory supporter all mouth and trousers, read the link at the top of the thread I posted then get back to me
I see you don't like the insults tyke?To tell the truth I'm sick of hearing your excuses why you supported a bedrock right wing tory proposal which would harm the economy and by default workers rights.I'm sick of hearing your excuses and explanations which ultimately result in tory government.You haven't despite all your protestations told me how your plan for world domination by the left wing of the labour party is going to come about, so instead of the insults and excuses get a bit real about the situation that effects millions of ordinary britons queuing for food and get your union buddies to sort out zero hours contracts then come back and discuss the path to government.2 million poor people in britain while you luxuriate in a fanciful 'ooh I dorn't like that'''14 million peopleApproximately 14 million people are in poverty in the UK – more than one in five of the population, including 4 million children and 2 million pensioners, up by 400,000 and 300,000 respectively over the past five years.6 Feb 2020''
I'm not sure why you're telling me any of this tyks as I'm only using stuff you have told me, whereas you are making stuff up.
Quote from: SydneyRover on September 25, 2021, 12:46:30 pmI'm not sure why you're telling me any of this tyks as I'm only using stuff you have told me, whereas you are making stuff up.There's little point debating with someone who holds such a tribal position Sydney from the centre of the Labour Party .Clearly Keith doesn't want to either given the purge of the left .You own it now lock , stock and barrel .
Quote from: tyke1962 on September 25, 2021, 01:09:34 pmQuote from: SydneyRover on September 25, 2021, 12:46:30 pmI'm not sure why you're telling me any of this tyks as I'm only using stuff you have told me, whereas you are making stuff up.There's little point debating with someone who holds such a tribal position Sydney from the centre of the Labour Party .Clearly Keith doesn't want to either given the purge of the left .You own it now lock , stock and barrel .It seems tribal positions are working both ways, heres a novel idea, how about meeting in the middle?
Quote from: Filo on September 25, 2021, 01:39:20 pmQuote from: tyke1962 on September 25, 2021, 01:09:34 pmQuote from: SydneyRover on September 25, 2021, 12:46:30 pmI'm not sure why you're telling me any of this tyks as I'm only using stuff you have told me, whereas you are making stuff up.There's little point debating with someone who holds such a tribal position Sydney from the centre of the Labour Party .Clearly Keith doesn't want to either given the purge of the left .You own it now lock , stock and barrel .It seems tribal positions are working both ways, heres a novel idea, how about meeting in the middle?Done that most of my life Filo but not with the current leader , once bitten and all that .Get a new leader in who isn't shyte scared of wanting real change in this country and I'll get on board .Rayner could very well tempt me back .
Quote from: tyke1962 on September 25, 2021, 01:55:51 pmQuote from: Filo on September 25, 2021, 01:39:20 pmQuote from: tyke1962 on September 25, 2021, 01:09:34 pmQuote from: SydneyRover on September 25, 2021, 12:46:30 pmI'm not sure why you're telling me any of this tyks as I'm only using stuff you have told me, whereas you are making stuff up.There's little point debating with someone who holds such a tribal position Sydney from the centre of the Labour Party .Clearly Keith doesn't want to either given the purge of the left .You own it now lock , stock and barrel .It seems tribal positions are working both ways, heres a novel idea, how about meeting in the middle?Done that most of my life Filo but not with the current leader , once bitten and all that .Get a new leader in who isn't shyte scared of wanting real change in this country and I'll get on board .Rayner could very well tempt me back . And in the meantime you'd rather have the worst of the two evils? Ah, the high price of principles!
Quote from: Not Now Kato on September 25, 2021, 02:20:52 pmQuote from: tyke1962 on September 25, 2021, 01:55:51 pmQuote from: Filo on September 25, 2021, 01:39:20 pmQuote from: tyke1962 on September 25, 2021, 01:09:34 pmQuote from: SydneyRover on September 25, 2021, 12:46:30 pmI'm not sure why you're telling me any of this tyks as I'm only using stuff you have told me, whereas you are making stuff up.There's little point debating with someone who holds such a tribal position Sydney from the centre of the Labour Party .Clearly Keith doesn't want to either given the purge of the left .You own it now lock , stock and barrel .It seems tribal positions are working both ways, heres a novel idea, how about meeting in the middle?Done that most of my life Filo but not with the current leader , once bitten and all that .Get a new leader in who isn't shyte scared of wanting real change in this country and I'll get on board .Rayner could very well tempt me back . And in the meantime you'd rather have the worst of the two evils? Ah, the high price of principles!Depends what your view of two evils is .As far as principles are concerned it's simply a case of not supporting something I fundamentally disagree with .If principles are to be judged by not giving Starmer a blank cheque then so be it .If I support something that means I agree with it and I don't agree with the direction Starmer is taking the party .