Socialism

[Prez]

A good socialist is a good socialist until someone else's money runs out.

Do you live by your political faith selby? do you drive on roads paid for by the masses, do you ring the police if you have a problem with oiks or do you call your private security contractor and so much more, tories are phonies, look how quickly they resort to socialism when it gets a bit hard.

That made me chuckle Sydney. I wonder what percentage of your posts are on politics compared to Rovers.

im guessing its very high.

[drfchound]

ju
  Herbert, the 40's 50's and 60s generations were the best Britain has ever had, Just ask anybody who lived through those times, its the ones that followed who have made a mess of it and are digging even bigger holes as we speak.

Eh up. It's Capstick Comes Home.

We 'ad a lot of things back then that thi' dunt 'ave today.

Rickets.
Diphtheria.
Hitler.

100% employment.
World Cup winners.
Everything ridiculously cheap.

….and today we have got
Covid
Global warming
AIDS
Falling GDP
A Tory government

[SydneyRover]

aye bring back ration books, can't wait.

[River Don]

Post ww2, three decades of socialism in the uk left us on the verge of being an economic dustbin on the global scale. The govt owned all majority industry such as auto and steel. Crushingly high tax rates on income and capital. Much of housing govt owned
Trade unions spending all their funds on political objectives such as controlling the Labour Party. . From 1950 to 1975, the U.K.’s investment and productivity record was the worst of any major industrial country. Trade-union demands increased the size of the public sector and public expenditures to 59 percent of GDP. Wage and benefits demands by organized labor led to continual strikes that paralyzed transportation and production. But workers were happy I suppose stood by their burning braziers day after day were they? The winter of 1975.piles of rubbish and rats in the street. Bodies unburied.
This what socialism looks like.

Where as after decades of free market capitalism, we face the highest taxes anyone can remember, continuing very poor productivity, young people giving up hope of ever getting on the property ladder, low skill, low wages subsidised by government, paralysed transport, virtually no UK owned industry left, spiralling inflation combined with stagnant wages and an energy crisis. But workers are happy I suppose, stood by their braziers, flipping burgers day after day.

Things are so different now.

[River Don]

Perhaps the comparison is,

The unionised blokes who were hanging around braziers, were fighting for stable, relatively well paid industrial jobs and the stability a council house offered.

Where as their grandchildren in the new flexible workforce have very few protections, in low paid service sector work, living precariously in private rented accommodation.

[SydneyRover]

A good socialist is a good socialist until someone else's money runs out.

Do you live by your political faith selby? do you drive on roads paid for by the masses, do you ring the police if you have a problem with oiks or do you call your private security contractor and so much more, tories are phonies, look how quickly they resort to socialism when it gets a bit hard.

That made me chuckle Sydney. I wonder what percentage of your posts are on politics compared to Rovers.

im guessing its very high.

90% + Prez, it would be interesting to see if those not happy with the board are the same ones that vote of this government.

[normal rules]

Perhaps the comparison is,

The unionised blokes who were hanging around braziers, were fighting for stable, relatively well paid industrial jobs and the stability a council house offered.

Where as their grandchildren in the new flexible workforce have very few protections, in low paid service sector work, living precariously in private rented accommodation.

The council houses they were, in later years offered to buy for quite literally peanuts.

[River Don]

Perhaps the comparison is,

The unionised blokes who were hanging around braziers, were fighting for stable, relatively well paid industrial jobs and the stability a council house offered.

Where as their grandchildren in the new flexible workforce have very few protections, in low paid service sector work, living precariously in private rented accommodation.

The council houses they were, in later years offered to buy for quite literally peanuts.

And never replaced.

So as the population has grown, more and more find themselves priced out and we find ourselves with the housing crisis we have today.

But for those with property, like those who paid peanuts for council housing. Yes, they've done very nicely.

[normal rules]

In 1950 the pop of the uk was around 50 million.
Today’s it’s around 66 million.
It predicted to be over 80 million by 2100.

Just how many houses do you think we are able to build every year?

It’s a controversial subject , and one that has been faced in much more populous areas of the world before.
We need to stop growing the population.
They won’t be talking about this at the COP summit though.

[River Don]

Moving off topic a bit now NR,

But I agree, population is a much bigger problem in the UK than many are prepared to admit. The problem is economic growth in the UK is dependant on population growth. Without it the whole system collapses. So. Difficult.

I'm not a massive socialist TBH. I do think a lot of the problems in the 70s like now were brought about by factors beyond the realm of national politics.

[Axholme Lion]

In 1950 the pop of the uk was around 50 million.
Today’s it’s around 66 million.
It predicted to be over 80 million by 2100.

Just how many houses do you think we are able to build every year?

It’s a controversial subject , and one that has been faced in much more populous areas of the world before.
We need to stop growing the population.
They won’t be talking about this at the COP summit though.

I've been saying this for ages. The root cause of virtually all the problems in the world today is OVERPOPULATION. Why will no one grasp the nettle and say it how it is?

[Bentley Bullet]

Great Britain is the 9th largest island in the world, yet the 3rd most populated. That inevitably brings problems in providing such as healthcare, housing, and decent employment.

[SydneyRover]

Great Britain is the 9th largest island in the world, yet the 3rd most populated. That inevitably brings problems in providing such as healthcare, housing, and decent employment.

what has being an island got to do with the price of fish?

[River Don]

The geographic constraint does intensify problems in congestion, water supply and pollution a bit more and I'd argue it loads these problems more heavily on the poorer sectors of society. But then these problems arise in hot spots in major cities on a very big island like Australia.

I don't think the problem of population is particularly a national one but global. It's simply that were consuming so quickly and shitting out the effluent so hard, everything is rapidly deteriorating and it's getting harder and harder to ignore the fact.

[SydneyRover]

I would have thought ranking countries by population density would be more helpful

[Bentley Bullet]

The geographic constraint does intensify problems in congestion, water supply and pollution a bit more and I'd argue it loads these problems more heavily on the poorer sectors of society. But then these problems arise in hot spots in major cities on a very big island like Australia.

I don't think the problem of population is particularly a national one but global. It's simply that were consuming so quickly and shitting out the effluent so hard, everything is rapidly deteriorating and it's getting harder and harder to ignore the fact.

Correct, plus, if your island is overpopulated there will be more demand for fish, resulting in fish stocks being reduced therefore raising the price of fish.

[River Don]

Overfishing is already a huge and urgent problem BB.

And we're replacing the fish we take out with broken plastic.

[SydneyRover]

Or does the fact that the UK ranked by population density around 50th in the world doesn't suit whatever point you are trying to make BB

[Bentley Bullet]

Also, RD, when you consider the UK is placed the 13th most densely populated large state (England being 5th) in the world, there is hardly any wonder we have problems with overcrowding.

[SydneyRover]

Counties by population

https://www.statista.com/statistics/971694/county-population-england/

[River Don]

And when you look at the top of the tree, at places like Singapore, I don't think it's a model we should be aspiring to.

[SydneyRover]

I guess one could say that a government that has highly favoured the south east of the country has let the whole country down by this concentration of resources.

[Herbert Anchovy]

Each generation has its own challenges. Young people today are getting screwed. Many will be in huge amounts of debt before they’re out of their teens! Property prices are a joke too.

There was a survey carried out a few years ago that noted that most people feel the ‘Golden Age’ is whatever decade they were on their late teens or early twenties. For me, the 80’s were the greatest decade. I was living in London, had cash on the hip and was having a great time! However, for my old man it was a nightmare of strikes, unpaid bills, illness and redundancy.

To my old man, the 50’s was the greatest period and everything began to go down hill in the 60’s in his opinion! Ask my Grandad though and he’d have said that the 30’s were great and the 50’s was the decade when everything began turning to shit!

It’s pretty interesting how individuals view the past and present so differently!

[Herbert Anchovy]

Do we not need an increasing population to pay for our increasingly ageing population?

[SydneyRover]

That's fair comment RD, it would be interesting to look at what has been sold off over the decades and evaluate the benefits or otherwise of what has happened.

It could provide useful information as to how to set a course for the future.

[Axholme Lion]

Or does the fact that the UK ranked by population density around 50th in the world doesn't suit whatever point you are trying to make BB

We're talking about proper countries. Ignore the likes of Macau, Singapore, Vatican City.

[BillyStubbsTears]

Perhaps the comparison is,

The unionised blokes who were hanging around braziers, were fighting for stable, relatively well paid industrial jobs and the stability a council house offered.

Where as their grandchildren in the new flexible workforce have very few protections, in low paid service sector work, living precariously in private rented accommodation.

The council houses they were, in later years offered to buy for quite literally peanuts.

Fueling a grotesque housing boom that has put home ownership out of the reach of millions of hard working younger people.

[SydneyRover]

Do we not need an increasing population to pay for our increasingly ageing population?

The other way of course is to improve efficiencies but that won't happen without the requisite investment. It will be interesting to see how either or more likely some sort of balance is achieved, the UK having lost of lot of workers due to brexit and some to covid. Johnson needs to follow through and ensure this investment materialises. The ride could be quite rocky unless the government gets on top of this, the points system will have to be relaxed as there isn't room for everyone at the top of the pyramid. Lots of countries will be competing for the highly trained cohort, families with a couple of young kids getting priority I would think.

[BillyStubbsTears]

The whole population density question is WAY more complex than is appreciated by the Send Em Back Cos We're Too Full advocates. The average population per square kilometer of total land area is meaningless. What matters is how much genuinely usable land area there is  in a country compared to the population.

On that score, there are many places that are massively more densely populated than the UK. The obvious one being Japan which has a population nearly double ours, but crammed into inhabitable land area not much more than half that of the UK. as anyone who has ever been to Japan will know, the urban areas are massively crowded by UK standards. Hasn't stopped Japan out performing us economically for 60 years. Or having a better education and health system.

[normal rules]

Plenty of space and big skies in Lincolnshire.
Keep it quiet though please.