Incomings ??

[RoversAlias]

I know and said that but they’ve got loan player ready. By Tuesday we need some of the players we are bringing in ready to go if they are going to know their team members and training before. Saturday.

I know and said that but they’ve got loan player ready. By Tuesday we need some of the players we are bringing in ready to go if they are going to know their team members and training before. Saturday.

And as I mentioned the other day we’ve reached agreement with 4 players and should announce shortly.

Not true if u listen to G Mc or Hoden

Tbf both said the loan deals are agreed but would be later in the window.

Reminds me of when we'd agreed to sign Adam Idah a couple of January windows ago...

[normal rules]

Brentford have a policy of looking at least two transfer windows ahead also. And did this from their success climb from lge two.
I get the feeling rovers are a bit more hand to mouth.
The difference is vast.
Other than players being given contracts, I cannot imagine there is too much succession planning going on in the background. Playing staff wise.
Fail to plan and you plan to fail .
A question for the next  mto perhaps.

[roversdude]

Just listened to GMc he doesn’t say there won’t be anyone in for Saturday yeah he says some targets aren’t available until later in the month but also says option 2 may be more viable than option1
Maybe I’m being too optimistic - got to find something to cling onto after that second half

[Sammy Chung was King]

If they are available at the end of the month, no good, move on. We needed them in yesterday not at the last minute. Please don’t start all that flannel and we end up with not enough brought in. There is plenty of time don’t make excuses already.

[since-1969]

If they are available at the end of the month, no good, move on. We needed them in yesterday not at the last minute. Please don’t start all that flannel and we end up with not enough brought in. There is plenty of time don’t make excuses already.

Excuses ? This man has the makings  of a great  manager . McSheffrey is learning quickly that you don’t take the blame you give it to a situation that has yet to occur . “The our first target may become our second target” get your excuses in early etc etc .

[Chris Black come back]

Let’s not also forget that if we do end up in League Two next season, we are very likely to have to do a total rebuild.

The following senior players are out of contract this summer and you would not expect them to be playing in the bottom tier even if we offer them terms - Anderson, Bostock, Cam John and potentially Fejiri. Even bigger group of squad players are out of contract - Gardener, Barlow, Jones, Bogle, Williams, Horton and Blythe.

In fact the only players contracted beyond this season are Rowe, Close, Dodoo, Hiwula, Ravenhill, Olowu, Taylor, Seaman, Ro-Shaun and Knoyle. That’s not the core of a squad to get out of League Two. 

[SydneyRover]

While L2 is a possibility, I would think that all stops are out to stay up and that an L2 scenario will only be in the planning if and when avoidance of it is an impossibility.

[EasyforDennis]

While L2 is a possibility, I would think that all stops are out to stay up and that an L2 scenario will only be in the planning if and when avoidance of it is an impossibility.

That's next week then? 

[Jonathan]

Let’s not also forget that if we do end up in League Two next season, we are very likely to have to do a total rebuild.

The following senior players are out of contract this summer and you would not expect them to be playing in the bottom tier even if we offer them terms - Anderson, Bostock, Cam John and potentially Fejiri. Even bigger group of squad players are out of contract - Gardener, Barlow, Jones, Bogle, Williams, Horton and Blythe.

In fact the only players contracted beyond this season are Rowe, Close, Dodoo, Hiwula, Ravenhill, Olowu, Taylor, Seaman, Ro-Shaun and Knoyle. That’s not the core of a squad to get out of League Two. 

This is where I do find it quite depressing, and a stark reflection of how we manage contracts. There can be few clubs in the whole pyramid that turnover players in the way that we do, instances in which new contracts are agreed before the end of the existing term are very much the exception. Loans go back, the core base reduces, and that’s why this season has been coming for a long time. Many of us have been highlighting this for several years. The pandemic won’t have helped or course, but this isn’t all pandemic related. It’s been systemic and you hope the club will learn from it as we come through covid.

This doesn’t justify the abuse the owners get, but it does justify disappointment in the decision making. The chairman must shoulder some of that in mind opinion.

Anyway, let’s see where we are in the coming days and weeks. To have a fighting chance of staying up it really needs to be days rather than weeks.

[DRFCSouth]

Going on previous years, the team above relegation generally attains about late 40's to 50 points. That's the stark reality.

It means we need roughly half of the remaining points to stay up.

We need players in yesterday,  not the end of the month.

And if we do need to offload in the summer due to contracts expiring, then surely all the more reason to throw everything at retaining our league one status.

[normal rules]

I’ve touched on this in another thread. Consider Brentford. When they started their rebuild from lge 2, which ultimately got them to the prem, they operate a recruitment and development policy that looks ahead two transfer windows.
Planning for the future.
I think Rovers are much more hand to mouth . We haven’t even got this window organised.

[graingrover]

If we were to take both Marquis and Downing on loan I would only then equate significant funds  with significant hope we may survive .

[The Beast]

While L2 is a possibility, I would think that all stops are out to stay up and that an L2 scenario will only be in the planning if and when avoidance of it is an impossibility.

You’ve obviously got to try and plan to stay up but with only one player coming in for Saturday (best case scenario) that game looks unwinnable, then after that the next 7 games even with even say 5 new quality players look totally beyond us. I think the emphasis should be on getting the RIGHT people in rather than getting bodies on the ground, we’ve seen what happens when you panic, you get Dodoo in on a two year contract. I just hope to God Ro-Shaun and Jordy were Wellens’ men and not the current talent spotting team.
I know this post looks really negative but as much as I try I can’t see any results soon, I think any signings need to be looking at a mid to long term improvement.

[MagicMartinoWoods]

I think the idea of giving players multiyear contracts is the planning ahead. It's thinking right we've got that position sorted and can gradually look at other positions in future transfer windows - the problem is the persons making those decisions about the multi-year contracts have made very bad bad calls because the players aren't actually good enough (e.g., Hiwula) or due to injuries may turn out to be a waste of a contract (e.g., Taylor)

[sedwardsdrfc]

This is true. Someone at the club will know who picked those players or who pushed for them. Either Wellens or Younger. If it's a case that it was Younger then i think we're in trouble this Jan and next season because not a single signing has worked out and we're backing the signings with 2-3 year contracts (which is the right thing to do if we weren't signing such shite) 

Personally think it was a case of Younger providing a list and Wellens picking the ones he really wanted or who we could actually get. Not sure that's any better given the quality of list this Younger can come up with will only reduce given our imminent relegation. What on earth will we end up with next season 

[tyke1962]

I’ve touched on this in another thread. Consider Brentford. When they started their rebuild from lge 2, which ultimately got them to the prem, they operate a recruitment and development policy that looks ahead two transfer windows.
Planning for the future.
I think Rovers are much more hand to mouth . We haven’t even got this window organised.

It also helps considerably when the Brentford owner started the project with £60m of investment NR .

Don't get me wrong they've done incredibly well and their analytical policy has found some incredible players who they've sold on for big money such as Watkins and Benrahma .

Sergi Cannos was £300k from Norwich , Rico Henry from Walsall , Josh De Silva a freebie from Arsenal and Pinnock was a steal at £3m from us ...... Grrrr !!!

But as I say it started with an investment of £60m .

[coventryrover]

And don’t forget the last time we got relegated to League Two in 2015/16, Ferguson did so on the back of an unbelievable run of 16 games where we won 0 (zero), drew 4 and lost 12. This included a run of 7 straight defeats in a row.

When it’s bad, it’s really bad for us.

This is true, however a few notable observations on the back of that:

- After that run, loads of our fans demanded Ferguson must be sacked.
- We didn’t sack him, and we bounced straight back
- But because we fluffed the title, loads of our fans demanded Ferguson must be sacked
- We didn’t sack him, and he stabilised us in League One
- This wasn’t good enough for a load of our fans, who demanded he must be sacked
- He left anyway, and we appointed McCann, who most of our fans didn’t want
- He got us to a dubious penalty shoot out away from the play off final. Then when he left to go to a club in the next division our fans were unhappy as he didn’t show loyalty

The moral of the story? Even when things are alright our fans will moan and demand that heads roll.

Today was a real low. But it would be better for everyone if we stuck together, got some players in and had a crack at the second half of the season drawing on the first half of today.

  Bang on

[MagicMartinoWoods]

We don't need to be looking to be a prem side tho tyke.

Our idea has been to try and have more forward thinking, and look into multi-year contracts, while also developing the production line of our youth system (to what level of success is very debatable). So the strategy has been somewhat correct. The problem, as mentioned, has been that the talent that has been identified and gambled on hasn't been the right talent.

If we listen to the club, the noises they are making is that these problems are due to Wellens and/or other managers solely making decisions on individual players, so they want to change this by using a recruitment panel. IF we take them at their word, and IF Younger and others had limited influence over previous signings, then I'm on board.

Something tells me it could be individuals at the club pinning blame on Wellens rather than taking some form of ownership that these deals still happened on their watch (at best) or they were involved and behind the deals too (at worst)

[DonnyOsmond]

At lot of the signings we made had previous Man Utd, Wellens or Manchester connections so I feel Wellens led on most of them but for all we know it could have been Younger and we'll be bringing in similar dross again this month.

[tyke1962]

We don't need to be looking to be a prem side tho tyke.

Our idea has been to try and have more forward thinking, and look into multi-year contracts, while also developing the production line of our youth system (to what level of success is very debatable). So the strategy has been somewhat correct. The problem, as mentioned, has been that the talent that has been identified and gambled on hasn't been the right talent.

If we listen to the club, the noises they are making is that these problems are due to Wellens and/or other managers solely making decisions on individual players, so they want to change this by using a recruitment panel. IF we take them at their word, and IF Younger and others had limited influence over previous signings, then I'm on board.

Something tells me it could be individuals at the club pinning blame on Wellens rather than taking some form of ownership that these deals still happened on their watch (at best) or they were involved and behind the deals too (at worst)

As I understand it in today's game a manager has the greater say in recruitment but a HC has only a seat around the table and works under a recruitment team .

There will of course be various ways of how this works from club to club but generally speaking that's how it is suppose to work .

I've always had the impression at Rovers that the manager has the greatest say on recruitment , at least it comes over that way whilst our HC's work from a list provided by our recruitment team which is pretty much on the record over here .

The industry standard if you like is that if you get 40% right your doing relatively well .

How that 40% is measured is perhaps the question .

Three season's ago with Kane and Wilks in the side I'd reckon you were way above 40% but unfortunately and unluckily you missed out in the play off semi final .

That percentage has probably come down since that night at The Valley but taking the last 3 and a half seasons in to consideration you'll probably not be far short of the 40% mark .

[MagicMartinoWoods]

The irony of it is that Wellens main soundbite was that he was trying to get players in with the right mentality, and desire to play for the club; we've ended up with players that look the most disinterested I've ever seen (Hiwula, Cukur, Dodoo).

[steve@dcfd]

I know and said that but they’ve got loan player ready. By Tuesday we need some of the players we are bringing in ready to go if they are going to know their team members and training before. Saturday.

I know and said that but they’ve got loan player ready. By Tuesday we need some of the players we are bringing in ready to go if they are going to know their team members and training before. Saturday.

And as I mentioned the other day we’ve reached agreement with 4 players and should announce shortly.

According to latest Article by Liam having spoke to MCS if we want our top targets we might have to wait until later in January. He also said MCS had spoke to Younger on Saturday and nothing was concrete to go Monday or Tuesday unless we start to sieve down the list.

[big fat yorkshire pudding]

The mixed messaging is unhelpful but let's wait and see. If there aren't players in this week then with a big game this Saturday you have to question the messaging sent out by Gavin Baldwin and David blunt in the statements they made when processing a new manager.

However, we may see players.  Mcsheffrey has already proven that he can play things down as he did when he was asked if he wanted the job, he'd be stupid not to do the same with transfers.

[MagicMartinoWoods]

We don't need to be looking to be a prem side tho tyke.

Our idea has been to try and have more forward thinking, and look into multi-year contracts, while also developing the production line of our youth system (to what level of success is very debatable). So the strategy has been somewhat correct. The problem, as mentioned, has been that the talent that has been identified and gambled on hasn't been the right talent.

If we listen to the club, the noises they are making is that these problems are due to Wellens and/or other managers solely making decisions on individual players, so they want to change this by using a recruitment panel. IF we take them at their word, and IF Younger and others had limited influence over previous signings, then I'm on board.

Something tells me it could be individuals at the club pinning blame on Wellens rather than taking some form of ownership that these deals still happened on their watch (at best) or they were involved and behind the deals too (at worst)

As I understand it in today's game a manager has the greater say in recruitment but a HC has only a seat around the table and works under a recruitment team .

There will of course be various ways of how this works from club to club but generally speaking that's how it is suppose to work .

I've always had the impression at Rovers that the manager has the greatest say on recruitment , at least it comes over that way whilst our HC's work from a list provided by our recruitment team which is pretty much on the record over here .

The industry standard if you like is that if you get 40% right your doing relatively well .

How that 40% is measured is perhaps the question .

Three season's ago with Kane and Wilks in the side I'd reckon you were way above 40% but unfortunately and unluckily you missed out in the play off semi final .

That percentage has probably come down since that night at The Valley but taking the last 3 and a half seasons in to consideration you'll probably not be far short of the 40% mark .

We would have been way above 40% last year. Pretty much all of the loan signings worked out, with some being exceptionally good acquisitions. Our hit rate this year would be very poor. Only Olowu, Rowe, and Galbraith have been good signings for me, and each of them not knock your socks off brilliant.

Out of interest, where does the 40% figure come from? Have you worked in football tyke, or is it just something you've just come up with, a fan theory? Genuinely interested.

[Jonathan]

The irony of it is that Wellens main soundbite was that he was trying to get players in with the right mentality, and desire to play for the club; we've ended up with players that look the most disinterested I've ever seen (Hiwula, Cukur, Dodoo).

Playing devils advocate to a large extent, but that could still be true.

- Dodoo arrived here having been widely praised by the Wigan fans for how hard he’d worked to help keep them up. He was playing in a different position (off the right) in a different culture and with support around him.

- Hiwula - I know nothing about his attitude but a glance at his past record is enough to show he isn’t as useless as he’s looked here. Has the covid had an effect, has the culture around the club ground him down?

- Cukur is just a kid, arrived unfit, has never really got going and is probably conditioned by his surroundings due to his age.

I’m in no way excusing the lack of effort from some of the above, the players have to be accountable for themselves and they should be showing far more character. But I dare say there are other contributory factors beyond their personal application. I doubt it’s much fun to play for our supporters. Even on the rare occasions we are in a position to get a result there is often a group of fans waiting to chant ”how shit must you be, we’re…”

It’s easy to get stuck in a cycle. The fans understandably need the players to lift them, and there’s been painfully little to shout about. But the players also need the fans to lift them. They’ve not done enough to earn adoration for sure, but ideally both sides (players and fans) need to dig in and change the mentality if we are to have a chance of salvaging some pride from this season.

Going back to topic, hopefully some quality additions can give everyone a lift and we can crack on.

[roversdude]

We don't need to be looking to be a prem side tho tyke.

Our idea has been to try and have more forward thinking, and look into multi-year contracts, while also developing the production line of our youth system (to what level of success is very debatable). So the strategy has been somewhat correct. The problem, as mentioned, has been that the talent that has been identified and gambled on hasn't been the right talent.

If we listen to the club, the noises they are making is that these problems are due to Wellens and/or other managers solely making decisions on individual players, so they want to change this by using a recruitment panel. IF we take them at their word, and IF Younger and others had limited influence over previous signings, then I'm on board.

Something tells me it could be individuals at the club pinning blame on Wellens rather than taking some form of ownership that these deals still happened on their watch (at best) or they were involved and behind the deals too (at worst)

Not sure if anyone saw (some time) ago the criticism of the signings from the Swindon chairman, at the time it seemed a little bit sour grapes but with hindsight this could well be another of Richie’s failings

[Jonathan]

The mixed messaging is unhelpful but let's wait and see. If there aren't players in this week then with a big game this Saturday you have to question the messaging sent out by Gavin Baldwin and David blunt in the statements they made when processing a new manager.

However, we may see players.  Mcsheffrey has already proven that he can play things down as he did when he was asked if he wanted the job, he'd be stupid not to do the same with transfers.

Agree with all of this.

I’ll add that we would need to be very careful of waiting for our top targets. As the month goes on and other clubs start to move, it creates a chain and we’re normally at the bottom of that because we don’t like to force any issue. It could very well leave us with nothing again. Or drawing up a new list at the last minute. And we must avoid the same mistakes again.

[tyke1962]

Well I reckon since my club started this model in 2015 of recruiting young players from analytic data and selling them and supposedly re-investing the profits we are have  at best a 50% success rate and I do mean at best .

For every player we've made money on we've the lost money on the next one .

We won't be getting anything back at all on Luke Thomas and Patrick Schmidt who came in at £2.2m collectively .

In fact when this model is measured right from the beginning in 2015 , we've had two promotions and without doubt two relegations with the one coming this season .

There's no money left in the club's account and the current value of our squad today is pretty low .

The point is no matter how you try and beat the odds in today's game over a period of time money and the ability to use it well is still king .

[MagicMartinoWoods]

The irony of it is that Wellens main soundbite was that he was trying to get players in with the right mentality, and desire to play for the club; we've ended up with players that look the most disinterested I've ever seen (Hiwula, Cukur, Dodoo).

Playing devils advocate to a large extent, but that could still be true.

- Dodoo arrived here having been widely praised by the Wigan fans for how hard he’d worked to help keep them up. He was playing in a different position (off the right) in a different culture and with support around him.

- Hiwula - I know nothing about his attitude but a glance at his past record is enough to show he isn’t as useless as he’s looked here. Has the covid had an effect, has the culture around the club ground him down?

- Cukur is just a kid, arrived unfit, has never really got going and is probably conditioned by his surroundings due to his age.

I’m in no way excusing the lack of effort from some of the above, the players have to be accountable for themselves and they should be showing far more character. But I dare say there are other contributory factors beyond their personal application. I doubt it’s much fun to play for our supporters. Even on the rare occasions we are in a position to get a result there is often a group of fans waiting to chant ”how shit must you be, we’re…”

It’s easy to get stuck in a cycle. The fans understandably need the players to lift them, and there’s been painfully little to shout about. But the players also need the fans to lift them. They’ve not done enough to earn adoration for sure, but ideally both sides (players and fans) need to dig in and change the mentality if we are to have a chance of salvaging some pride from this season.

Going back to topic, hopefully some quality additions can give everyone a lift and we can crack on.

The level of effort and application shown is below even the minimum standards (just take a look at the other thread on Hiwula's response to fans). Yes of course culture and other factors have an influence, but each individual has to be accountable to at least a certain degree of professionalism. Otherwise, don't take the wage. Cukur may be young and unfit, but he's also a professional footballer being paid to play football.

My point being, Wellens was talking up finding players where the main ingredient was mentality and application/desire; I would suggest it's ironic that the players he brought in seem to have the poorest mentality and lowest levels of desire

[DonnyBazR0ver]

And don’t forget the last time we got relegated to League Two in 2015/16, Ferguson did so on the back of an unbelievable run of 16 games where we won 0 (zero), drew 4 and lost 12. This included a run of 7 straight defeats in a row.

When it’s bad, it’s really bad for us.

This is true, however a few notable observations on the back of that:

- After that run, loads of our fans demanded Ferguson must be sacked.
- We didn’t sack him, and we bounced straight back
- But because we fluffed the title, loads of our fans demanded Ferguson must be sacked
- We didn’t sack him, and he stabilised us in League One
- This wasn’t good enough for a load of our fans, who demanded he must be sacked
- He left anyway, and we appointed McCann, who most of our fans didn’t want
- He got us to a dubious penalty shoot out away from the play off final. Then when he left to go to a club in the next division our fans were unhappy as he didn’t show loyalty

The moral of the story? Even when things are alright our fans will moan and demand that heads roll.

Today was a real low. But it would be better for everyone if we stuck together, got some players in and had a crack at the second half of the season drawing on the first half of today.

I think you're right there and we do have a very glass half empty outlook and a paranoa, an insecurity, an obsession about what other clubs think about us, when in reality, there are fans up and down the land with their own concerns and wouldn't give two hoots about us.

There are plenty of clubs who have suffered and you don't have to look too far away towards Bradford, York, Scunthorpe, Chesterfield, Notts County and just think for a minute. Has it really been as bad as some make out ??