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Quote from: tyke1962 on January 03, 2022, 10:37:24 amQuote from: MagicMartinoWoods on January 03, 2022, 10:16:07 amWe don't need to be looking to be a prem side tho tyke. Our idea has been to try and have more forward thinking, and look into multi-year contracts, while also developing the production line of our youth system (to what level of success is very debatable). So the strategy has been somewhat correct. The problem, as mentioned, has been that the talent that has been identified and gambled on hasn't been the right talent.If we listen to the club, the noises they are making is that these problems are due to Wellens and/or other managers solely making decisions on individual players, so they want to change this by using a recruitment panel. IF we take them at their word, and IF Younger and others had limited influence over previous signings, then I'm on board.Something tells me it could be individuals at the club pinning blame on Wellens rather than taking some form of ownership that these deals still happened on their watch (at best) or they were involved and behind the deals too (at worst)As I understand it in today's game a manager has the greater say in recruitment but a HC has only a seat around the table and works under a recruitment team .There will of course be various ways of how this works from club to club but generally speaking that's how it is suppose to work .I've always had the impression at Rovers that the manager has the greatest say on recruitment , at least it comes over that way whilst our HC's work from a list provided by our recruitment team which is pretty much on the record over here .The industry standard if you like is that if you get 40% right your doing relatively well .How that 40% is measured is perhaps the question .Three season's ago with Kane and Wilks in the side I'd reckon you were way above 40% but unfortunately and unluckily you missed out in the play off semi final .That percentage has probably come down since that night at The Valley but taking the last 3 and a half seasons in to consideration you'll probably not be far short of the 40% mark .We would have been way above 40% last year. Pretty much all of the loan signings worked out, with some being exceptionally good acquisitions. Our hit rate this year would be very poor. Only Olowu, Rowe, and Galbraith have been good signings for me, and each of them not knock your socks off brilliant.Out of interest, where does the 40% figure come from? Have you worked in football tyke, or is it just something you've just come up with, a fan theory? Genuinely interested.
Quote from: MagicMartinoWoods on January 03, 2022, 10:16:07 amWe don't need to be looking to be a prem side tho tyke. Our idea has been to try and have more forward thinking, and look into multi-year contracts, while also developing the production line of our youth system (to what level of success is very debatable). So the strategy has been somewhat correct. The problem, as mentioned, has been that the talent that has been identified and gambled on hasn't been the right talent.If we listen to the club, the noises they are making is that these problems are due to Wellens and/or other managers solely making decisions on individual players, so they want to change this by using a recruitment panel. IF we take them at their word, and IF Younger and others had limited influence over previous signings, then I'm on board.Something tells me it could be individuals at the club pinning blame on Wellens rather than taking some form of ownership that these deals still happened on their watch (at best) or they were involved and behind the deals too (at worst)As I understand it in today's game a manager has the greater say in recruitment but a HC has only a seat around the table and works under a recruitment team .There will of course be various ways of how this works from club to club but generally speaking that's how it is suppose to work .I've always had the impression at Rovers that the manager has the greatest say on recruitment , at least it comes over that way whilst our HC's work from a list provided by our recruitment team which is pretty much on the record over here .The industry standard if you like is that if you get 40% right your doing relatively well .How that 40% is measured is perhaps the question .Three season's ago with Kane and Wilks in the side I'd reckon you were way above 40% but unfortunately and unluckily you missed out in the play off semi final .That percentage has probably come down since that night at The Valley but taking the last 3 and a half seasons in to consideration you'll probably not be far short of the 40% mark .
We don't need to be looking to be a prem side tho tyke. Our idea has been to try and have more forward thinking, and look into multi-year contracts, while also developing the production line of our youth system (to what level of success is very debatable). So the strategy has been somewhat correct. The problem, as mentioned, has been that the talent that has been identified and gambled on hasn't been the right talent.If we listen to the club, the noises they are making is that these problems are due to Wellens and/or other managers solely making decisions on individual players, so they want to change this by using a recruitment panel. IF we take them at their word, and IF Younger and others had limited influence over previous signings, then I'm on board.Something tells me it could be individuals at the club pinning blame on Wellens rather than taking some form of ownership that these deals still happened on their watch (at best) or they were involved and behind the deals too (at worst)
Quote from: big fat yorkshire pudding on January 03, 2022, 10:47:30 amThe mixed messaging is unhelpful but let's wait and see. If there aren't players in this week then with a big game this Saturday you have to question the messaging sent out by Gavin Baldwin and David blunt in the statements they made when processing a new manager.However, we may see players. Mcsheffrey has already proven that he can play things down as he did when he was asked if he wanted the job, he'd be stupid not to do the same with transfers.Agree with all of this. I’ll add that we would need to be very careful of waiting for our top targets. As the month goes on and other clubs start to move, it creates a chain and we’re normally at the bottom of that because we don’t like to force any issue. It could very well leave us with nothing again. Or drawing up a new list at the last minute. And we must avoid the same mistakes again.
The mixed messaging is unhelpful but let's wait and see. If there aren't players in this week then with a big game this Saturday you have to question the messaging sent out by Gavin Baldwin and David blunt in the statements they made when processing a new manager.However, we may see players. Mcsheffrey has already proven that he can play things down as he did when he was asked if he wanted the job, he'd be stupid not to do the same with transfers.
Quote from: MagicMartinoWoods on January 03, 2022, 10:49:19 amQuote from: tyke1962 on January 03, 2022, 10:37:24 amQuote from: MagicMartinoWoods on January 03, 2022, 10:16:07 amWe don't need to be looking to be a prem side tho tyke. Our idea has been to try and have more forward thinking, and look into multi-year contracts, while also developing the production line of our youth system (to what level of success is very debatable). So the strategy has been somewhat correct. The problem, as mentioned, has been that the talent that has been identified and gambled on hasn't been the right talent.If we listen to the club, the noises they are making is that these problems are due to Wellens and/or other managers solely making decisions on individual players, so they want to change this by using a recruitment panel. IF we take them at their word, and IF Younger and others had limited influence over previous signings, then I'm on board.Something tells me it could be individuals at the club pinning blame on Wellens rather than taking some form of ownership that these deals still happened on their watch (at best) or they were involved and behind the deals too (at worst)As I understand it in today's game a manager has the greater say in recruitment but a HC has only a seat around the table and works under a recruitment team .There will of course be various ways of how this works from club to club but generally speaking that's how it is suppose to work .I've always had the impression at Rovers that the manager has the greatest say on recruitment , at least it comes over that way whilst our HC's work from a list provided by our recruitment team which is pretty much on the record over here .The industry standard if you like is that if you get 40% right your doing relatively well .How that 40% is measured is perhaps the question .Three season's ago with Kane and Wilks in the side I'd reckon you were way above 40% but unfortunately and unluckily you missed out in the play off semi final .That percentage has probably come down since that night at The Valley but taking the last 3 and a half seasons in to consideration you'll probably not be far short of the 40% mark .We would have been way above 40% last year. Pretty much all of the loan signings worked out, with some being exceptionally good acquisitions. Our hit rate this year would be very poor. Only Olowu, Rowe, and Galbraith have been good signings for me, and each of them not knock your socks off brilliant.Out of interest, where does the 40% figure come from? Have you worked in football tyke, or is it just something you've just come up with, a fan theory? Genuinely interested.I read an article by the Brentford owner a few years back who said he had a system to beat those 40% odds .My eyebrows were raised initially until I then read he's made his millions using analytics to beat the bookies in spread betting .It would appear he was right given the quality of their recruitment , subsequent sales and progress on the pitch .However it's also due to that £60m initial investment and the fact that Brentford is in West London and a very desirable location to attract young footballers especially from abroad where Barnsley isn't and nobody put in £60m of investment .He's beaten the odds in many respects but he's still put a tremendous amount of money in initially and a London location is an extremely understated advantage in my opinion .
Quote from: Jonathan on January 02, 2022, 10:48:10 pmQuote from: Chris Black come back on January 02, 2022, 10:35:02 pmAnd don’t forget the last time we got relegated to League Two in 2015/16, Ferguson did so on the back of an unbelievable run of 16 games where we won 0 (zero), drew 4 and lost 12. This included a run of 7 straight defeats in a row. When it’s bad, it’s really bad for us. This is true, however a few notable observations on the back of that:- After that run, loads of our fans demanded Ferguson must be sacked. - We didn’t sack him, and we bounced straight back - But because we fluffed the title, loads of our fans demanded Ferguson must be sacked- We didn’t sack him, and he stabilised us in League One- This wasn’t good enough for a load of our fans, who demanded he must be sacked- He left anyway, and we appointed McCann, who most of our fans didn’t want- He got us to a dubious penalty shoot out away from the play off final. Then when he left to go to a club in the next division our fans were unhappy as he didn’t show loyalty The moral of the story? Even when things are alright our fans will moan and demand that heads roll. Today was a real low. But it would be better for everyone if we stuck together, got some players in and had a crack at the second half of the season drawing on the first half of today. I think you're right there and we do have a very glass half empty outlook and a paranoa, an insecurity, an obsession about what other clubs think about us, when in reality, there are fans up and down the land with their own concerns and wouldn't give two hoots about us.There are plenty of clubs who have suffered and you don't have to look too far away towards Bradford, York, Scunthorpe, Chesterfield, Notts County and just think for a minute. Has it really been as bad as some make out ??
Quote from: Chris Black come back on January 02, 2022, 10:35:02 pmAnd don’t forget the last time we got relegated to League Two in 2015/16, Ferguson did so on the back of an unbelievable run of 16 games where we won 0 (zero), drew 4 and lost 12. This included a run of 7 straight defeats in a row. When it’s bad, it’s really bad for us. This is true, however a few notable observations on the back of that:- After that run, loads of our fans demanded Ferguson must be sacked. - We didn’t sack him, and we bounced straight back - But because we fluffed the title, loads of our fans demanded Ferguson must be sacked- We didn’t sack him, and he stabilised us in League One- This wasn’t good enough for a load of our fans, who demanded he must be sacked- He left anyway, and we appointed McCann, who most of our fans didn’t want- He got us to a dubious penalty shoot out away from the play off final. Then when he left to go to a club in the next division our fans were unhappy as he didn’t show loyalty The moral of the story? Even when things are alright our fans will moan and demand that heads roll. Today was a real low. But it would be better for everyone if we stuck together, got some players in and had a crack at the second half of the season drawing on the first half of today.
And don’t forget the last time we got relegated to League Two in 2015/16, Ferguson did so on the back of an unbelievable run of 16 games where we won 0 (zero), drew 4 and lost 12. This included a run of 7 straight defeats in a row. When it’s bad, it’s really bad for us.
Let's be grown up and honest folks. I'm usually an inveterate optimist, but regardless of who we sign, looking at the matches coming up, we'll be lucky to get 9 points from the next 9 games. That would leave us needing near playoff form for the final 14 games to survive.If we don't quickly add serious quality, that side that finished yesterday's game wouldn't get a point from those next nine games. Or indeed from any nine games ever. As I say, I'm usually the optimist, but I reckon we have a 10% chance of escaping this.
it’s really not like that, these players are always a gamble
Don't forget,there is hundreds of loanees,some with premiership experience,the possible loanees identified will be invited for interview and then after being whittled down loanees will be requested to come back for a 2nd interview before the successful loanees being invited to register.
We are at a point in time and if the truth be known for probably many years previously that we have to accept what is now possible and what is totally out of reach at least in a sustainable way .My club is not a championship club anymore despite having a fan base to support a lower mid table team and the history , nobody has spent more seasons than us at this level in the entire football league .I believe it's just over 90 seasons out of 134 .It's changed so much that championship level was taken as a given and now it's something of a luxury to survive for a season .These are difficult things to accept but as much as it hurts it is a fact .The lowering of expectations also kills aspiration and the dream factor and without dreams then what's this game all about ?The days of Graham Taylor taking Watford from the old 4th division to the top end of the first division and qualifying for European football and an FA cup final are simply out of the question today unless you are bankrolled massively .Bankrolled massively can also see you fail with millions of pounds worth of debt , points deductions and in a worse place than you began with , S6 and Derby County are the evidence .If it wasn't for the fact my Saturday afternoons are my escape , meet up with the lads at 12.30pm and a few jars and a couple afterwards then I'd have binned it off years ago .That wasn't why I signed up to this club all those years ago because with a good youth system or value for money recruitment anything was possible .Teams could comfortably survive in the old first division when promoted from the second division , Forest finished third and then won the first division title and two European cups , they may have eventually signed the first million pound player in Trevor Francis but they got to that position by seeing Kenny Burns , Peter Withe , Gary Birtles and Frank Clarke were top players where nobody else could see they were .57% of my clubs fan base are walking away , not because we are shyte but because there's no point anymore , we've been relegated before and still the support stuck with it .Here's a remarkable fact , it's not the Jonny come lately 's or the younger end who are walking away , far from it .It's people like me , fans who have had an ST for 40 years plus and seen times way worse than this season .The dreams gone , players are only passing through to try and secure more money and to be honest the fans aren't appreciated anymore .I'll keep going just to get my afternoon out with the lads but other than that it's pretty pointless to be honest .
As much as the board dont want to admit failure and be seen as throwing the towel in and they want to have a good crack at staying in the league, i think the funds would be better used to buy out some of the existing wasters currently in the squad rather than potentially adding more. If you are consistent on bringing in players from this level who arent being offered new terms from their parent clubs, it just stinks of bad news to me.
Quote from: tyke1962 on January 03, 2022, 02:04:43 pmWe are at a point in time and if the truth be known for probably many years previously that we have to accept what is now possible and what is totally out of reach at least in a sustainable way .My club is not a championship club anymore despite having a fan base to support a lower mid table team and the history , nobody has spent more seasons than us at this level in the entire football league .I believe it's just over 90 seasons out of 134 .It's changed so much that championship level was taken as a given and now it's something of a luxury to survive for a season .These are difficult things to accept but as much as it hurts it is a fact .The lowering of expectations also kills aspiration and the dream factor and without dreams then what's this game all about ?The days of Graham Taylor taking Watford from the old 4th division to the top end of the first division and qualifying for European football and an FA cup final are simply out of the question today unless you are bankrolled massively .Bankrolled massively can also see you fail with millions of pounds worth of debt , points deductions and in a worse place than you began with , S6 and Derby County are the evidence .If it wasn't for the fact my Saturday afternoons are my escape , meet up with the lads at 12.30pm and a few jars and a couple afterwards then I'd have binned it off years ago .That wasn't why I signed up to this club all those years ago because with a good youth system or value for money recruitment anything was possible .Teams could comfortably survive in the old first division when promoted from the second division , Forest finished third and then won the first division title and two European cups , they may have eventually signed the first million pound player in Trevor Francis but they got to that position by seeing Kenny Burns , Peter Withe , Gary Birtles and Frank Clarke were top players where nobody else could see they were .57% of my clubs fan base are walking away , not because we are shyte but because there's no point anymore , we've been relegated before and still the support stuck with it .Here's a remarkable fact , it's not the Jonny come lately 's or the younger end who are walking away , far from it .It's people like me , fans who have had an ST for 40 years plus and seen times way worse than this season .The dreams gone , players are only passing through to try and secure more money and to be honest the fans aren't appreciated anymore .I'll keep going just to get my afternoon out with the lads but other than that it's pretty pointless to be honest .Just how I feel at the moment Tyke.
Gary McSheffrey says there are no imminent signings due in for Doncaster Rovers. DFP