Wellens v McSheffrey

[ForsolongaRover]

The merit of head-hunting is that you go for someone who is established, employed and successful. Dickov may have seemed to JR to have potential, but he had no track record. In the cases of SOD and Saunders they were already proven.

It would be interesting to know how many applicants for recent Rovers manager jobs have been in management and doing well with their clubs.

[keyser_soze]

The method used back then was JR deciding and then making the appointment himself?

Worked with Penney and SOD, less so with Wignall and Dickov. Jury out on Saunders and Snodin.

I remember back then and according to fans Penney didn't 'count' as he was a player that fell into the job and graduated from caretaker. He didn't do badly as an inexperienced manager, although he had a comparably formidable budget for in the league he was in. There was a point after Snodin/Wignall/Penney/O'Driscoll (prior to him coming good) that people were saying Ryan couldn't pick a decent manager. Saunders did a decent job of building our League 2 winning side from scratch, then left for Wolves and slipped out of the game (presumably onto the after dinner circuit) not long after.

Snodin was terrible, and similarly inexperienced.

[turnbull for england]

Snodin was part of revitalising and galvanised the fans though, showing with his name the club was on the rebound and must have been a thankless task at the start so for that we should be grateful

[Barmby Rover]

I just find it hard to believe that McSheff was the stand out applicant.

That depends on what was "the ideal candidate", somebody who isn't going to moan about the lack of any decent budget, perfect.

[Lesonthewest]

Downing got injured after five games and was out for six weeks. Only just coming back now. O'Toole wouldn't have solved our major problem in that we have a laughable attacking presence with a selection of the worst performing professional forward players in the English game. He'd have slowed us down even more I suspect, were that possible. Marquis could have made a difference but he would have been feeding on absolute scraps. Still, at least his tantrums every couple of minutes might have given those behind him some degree of urgency.

But Downing may not have got injured in different circumstances by joining us, O'Toole would have strengthened the midfield, & how many times did we see Marquis drop off to midfield & get us going forward with his downright persistence, head & shoulders above any 'striker' we currently have at the club. Going out on a limb here but me personally would say we would have more points at this stage with those three in the side.

[GazLaz]

Downing got injured after five games and was out for six weeks. Only just coming back now. O'Toole wouldn't have solved our major problem in that we have a laughable attacking presence with a selection of the worst performing professional forward players in the English game. He'd have slowed us down even more I suspect, were that possible. Marquis could have made a difference but he would have been feeding on absolute scraps. Still, at least his tantrums every couple of minutes might have given those behind him some degree of urgency.

But Downing may not have got injured in different circumstances by joining us, O'Toole would have strengthened the midfield, & how many times did we see Marquis drop off to midfield & get us going forward with his downright persistence, head & shoulders above any 'striker' we currently have at the club. Going out on a limb here but me personally would say we would have more points at this stage with those three in the side.

JJOT wouldn’t strengthen the midfield of the Dog and Duck. He’s miles off being a L1 midfielder.

[Lesonthewest]

Downing got injured after five games and was out for six weeks. Only just coming back now. O'Toole wouldn't have solved our major problem in that we have a laughable attacking presence with a selection of the worst performing professional forward players in the English game. He'd have slowed us down even more I suspect, were that possible. Marquis could have made a difference but he would have been feeding on absolute scraps. Still, at least his tantrums every couple of minutes might have given those behind him some degree of urgency.

But Downing may not have got injured in different circumstances by joining us, O'Toole would have strengthened the midfield, & how many times did we see Marquis drop off to midfield & get us going forward with his downright persistence, head & shoulders above any 'striker' we currently have at the club. Going out on a limb here but me personally would say we would have more points at this stage with those three in the side.

JJOT wouldn’t strengthen the midfield of the Dog and Duck. He’s miles off being a L1 midfielder.

But we had nothing in January but a lightweight midfield that teams were waltzing through, & signed an unfit Clayton. He would have strengthened our midfield as we had nobody else, unless we are counting sicknote Gardner of course, who is worse than O'Toole anyway.

[Sammy Chung was King]

The length of contract he got at Mansfield he had to accept, it was pure madness for a player of his age. We couldn’t give him that. I agree he would have strengthened the side , either at the back or in midfield.

[GazLaz]

Downing got injured after five games and was out for six weeks. Only just coming back now. O'Toole wouldn't have solved our major problem in that we have a laughable attacking presence with a selection of the worst performing professional forward players in the English game. He'd have slowed us down even more I suspect, were that possible. Marquis could have made a difference but he would have been feeding on absolute scraps. Still, at least his tantrums every couple of minutes might have given those behind him some degree of urgency.

But Downing may not have got injured in different circumstances by joining us, O'Toole would have strengthened the midfield, & how many times did we see Marquis drop off to midfield & get us going forward with his downright persistence, head & shoulders above any 'striker' we currently have at the club. Going out on a limb here but me personally would say we would have more points at this stage with those three in the side.

JJOT wouldn’t strengthen the midfield of the Dog and Duck. He’s miles off being a L1 midfielder.

But we had nothing in January but a lightweight midfield that teams were waltzing through, & signed an unfit Clayton. He would have strengthened our midfield as we had nobody else, unless we are counting sicknote Gardner of course, who is worse than O'Toole anyway.

But would it be worth signing a 33yo on a long contract because you are short on players for a couple of months. The best bit of business we did in January was not signing him.

[Lesonthewest]

The length of contract he got at Mansfield he had to accept, it was pure madness for a player of his age. We couldn’t give him that. I agree he would have strengthened the side , either at the back or in midfield.

Just the point I'm trying to make Sammy, we couldn't, rightly or wrongly, compete with Mansfield, or Lincoln for that matter.

[Ldr]

The length of contract he got at Mansfield he had to accept, it was pure madness for a player of his age. We couldn’t give him that. I agree he would have strengthened the side , either at the back or in midfield.

Just the point I'm trying to make Sammy, we couldn't, rightly or wrongly, compete with Mansfield, or Lincoln for that matter.

Couldn’t? Or chose not to?

[Alan Southstand]

 Couldn’t.

[Ldr]

Couldn’t.

Opinion? Or do you have proof?

[Sammy Chung was King]

The length of contract he got at Mansfield he had to accept, it was pure madness for a player of his age. We couldn’t give him that. I agree he would have strengthened the side , either at the back or in midfield.

Just the point I'm trying to make Sammy, we couldn't, rightly or wrongly, compete with Mansfield, or Lincoln for that matter.

Yes, Leson, the contract they offered him, in length was a great deal for him. We have dropped back when we can’t compete with those sides. Anybody that says we haven’t deteriorated as a club, has their proof right there that we have.

Has this board got the energy to reinvigorate the whole place?, because it needs it.
I don’t enjoy seeing us struggle, none of us do.
I also know you can’t do well every season when you are a club like ours.
The problem is it doesn’t seem like a one off season, it has been going this way for a few years.

The board seem to be sorting the back room staff out, when we can the players need sorting through as well. Crewe supporters have a bit of a beef that they are appointing coaches left right and centre, but haven’t really brought players. No good improving staff but not players.

The way things have been going the excitement for next season isn’t there for me. We’ve always brought players in that you didn’t think we could get. I’m seeing that less and less and have no faith the manager we have to could do anything with them if we did.

Really wanted him to do well for us, very disappointed.
Win or lose you don’t get to pick your club, you either support or you don’t, I won’t ever stop whatever the results.

[Alan Southstand]

LDR, it doesn’t take much effort to work it out for yourself.

[steve@dcfd]

The player used us to get a bigger and better contract at Mansfield. That’s were we are now as a club when we want better players we are out bid or the player chooses to stay where they are we have had two of those as well OBtien from Sunderland who went to Portsmouth in January and Michael Jacobs who stayed at Portsmouth
If we had the ambition to get them contracts should have been agreed and signed on the 1st January yet we delayed lost matches and players don’t come. Goes back to the level of player we can get is reducing. So couldn’t

It goes back to the summer when we couldn’t sign a defensive midfield player or gold keeper because what they were asking was to much money. We end up with a second string from Hartlepool and a player who was unfit to start games.

[Chris Black come back]

Other than watching him play against us, I don’t know the guy and nobody knows whether he could have made any difference to the circus act we have become. What we do know though is that signing a 33 year old on a multi year contract with no possible hope of resale value, is financially irresponsible, putting aside whether he could have made any footballing impact. We have made some mystifying transfer decisions over the last few seasons but this pursuit must rank towards the top.

[pib]

Other than watching him play against us, I don’t know the guy and nobody knows whether he could have made any difference to the circus act we have become. What we do know though is that signing a 33 year old on a multi year contract with no possible hope of resale value, is financially irresponsible, putting aside whether he could have made any footballing impact. We have made some mystifying transfer decisions over the last few seasons but this pursuit must rank towards the top.

I got shot down by a few on here for making this kind of point when we signed Clayton in January. As it has turned out, he hasn't been fit enough to play in half of his time here so far, and hasn't made a huge impact on our performances when he has played. So far we have had neither footballing impact, and there is certainly no re-sale value.

Let's hope we can get some mileage out of him next season...

[Chris Black come back]

Clayton not a perfect signing but he has played his entire career at a far higher level than the Mansfield lad, and was only signed on a 18 month deal.

[GazLaz]

Clayton not a perfect signing but he has played his entire career at a far higher level than the Mansfield lad, and was only signed on a 18 month deal.

Clayton played well on Saturday. Positive performance.

[ChrisBx]

After 18.04.22:

Wellens: P 26. W 6 (23.1%), D 5 (19.2%), L 15 (57.7%). PPG: 0.88

McSheffrey: P 26. W 6 (23.1%), D 3 (11.5%), L 17 (65.4%) PPG: 0.81.

Again, the much-touted improvements under McSheffrey don't seem to be translating into better results. That's despite a significant increase in the playing budget in January.

[GazLaz]

After 18.04.22:

Wellens: P 26. W 6 (23.1%), D 5 (19.2%), L 15 (57.7%). PPG: 0.88

McSheffrey: P 26. W 6 (23.1%), D 3 (11.5%), L 17 (65.4%) PPG: 0.81.

Again, the much-touted improvements under McSheffrey don't seem to be translating into better results. That's despite a significant increase in the playing budget in January.

Surely 18 points in 18 games and 12 points in the last 12 is an improvement on what went before?

[Pside]

No. They literally have identical records

[steve@dcfd]

Also upto now Richie as taken Leyton zOrient from 20th to 13th they were 4 points off the last safe place they are now 14 points from the last safe place. Leyton Orient have taken 19 pts in the 10 games he has been in charge.

Also Richie only had 19 league games and got 13pts so GMC is doing better. But both failed due to not enough quality players. Injuries to important players.

But it shows above with the right players for the level they are playing Richie has got 1.9 pts per game for Leyton Orient.

[1-0 to the Doncaster]

How anyone can back mcsheffery is beyond me. Face the facts we are a poorly managed club. Who keeps their manager when they are relegated? He is just as much to blame as wellens.
Hopefully the board are homing in on a replacement which is announced a few days after the end of season. 

[Donnybax]

After 18.04.22:

Wellens: P 26. W 6 (23.1%), D 5 (19.2%), L 15 (57.7%). PPG: 0.88

McSheffrey: P 26. W 6 (23.1%), D 3 (11.5%), L 17 (65.4%) PPG: 0.81.

Again, the much-touted improvements under McSheffrey don't seem to be translating into better results. That's despite a significant increase in the playing budget in January.

Surely 18 points in 18 games and 12 points in the last 12 is an improvement on what went before?

a point a game is rubbish and you know it

[GazLaz]

After 18.04.22:

Wellens: P 26. W 6 (23.1%), D 5 (19.2%), L 15 (57.7%). PPG: 0.88

McSheffrey: P 26. W 6 (23.1%), D 3 (11.5%), L 17 (65.4%) PPG: 0.81.

Again, the much-touted improvements under McSheffrey don't seem to be translating into better results. That's despite a significant increase in the playing budget in January.

Surely 18 points in 18 games and 12 points in the last 12 is an improvement on what went before?

a point a game is rubbish and you know it

It would have been enough to keep us up this season

[steve@dcfd]

After 18.04.22:

Wellens: P 26. W 6 (23.1%), D 5 (19.2%), L 15 (57.7%). PPG: 0.88

McSheffrey: P 26. W 6 (23.1%), D 3 (11.5%), L 17 (65.4%) PPG: 0.81.

Again, the much-touted improvements under McSheffrey don't seem to be translating into better results. That's despite a significant increase in the playing budget in January.

Surely 18 points in 18 games and 12 points in the last 12 is an improvement on what went before?

a point a game is rubbish and you know it

It would have been enough to keep us up this season

What would 1.9 pts per game. Gaz if you can’t see the level of players we have brought in both summer and January has been very disappointing. But the board are like Teflon they don’t get any flack.

[ChrisBx]

After 18.04.22:

Wellens: P 26. W 6 (23.1%), D 5 (19.2%), L 15 (57.7%). PPG: 0.88

McSheffrey: P 26. W 6 (23.1%), D 3 (11.5%), L 17 (65.4%) PPG: 0.81.

Again, the much-touted improvements under McSheffrey don't seem to be translating into better results. That's despite a significant increase in the playing budget in January.

Surely 18 points in 18 games and 12 points in the last 12 is an improvement on what went before?

You can adjust the sample size and make whatever argument you want. For instance, over the last 8 games we've picked up 5 points at a rate of 0.625 points per game. Over the season that would have us bottom.

Like I said, McSheffrey's playing budget was substantially increased in January and there's been no tangible improvement.

[Donnybax]

After 18.04.22:

Wellens: P 26. W 6 (23.1%), D 5 (19.2%), L 15 (57.7%). PPG: 0.88

McSheffrey: P 26. W 6 (23.1%), D 3 (11.5%), L 17 (65.4%) PPG: 0.81.

Again, the much-touted improvements under McSheffrey don't seem to be translating into better results. That's despite a significant increase in the playing budget in January.

Surely 18 points in 18 games and 12 points in the last 12 is an improvement on what went before?

a point a game is rubbish and you know it

It would have been enough to keep us up this season

probably a reflection on how bad the bottom of this league is. Which makes it even worse that we’re going down