Wellens v McSheffrey

[Chris Black come back]

We’ve had survival presented to us on a silver platter and have shat ourselves time and time again. Rare for six such atrocious sides to be down there at the same time. We are rightly down as we have stank the place out from day one, but the others are only very marginally better.

[mushRTID]

We’ve had survival presented to us on a silver platter and have shat ourselves time and time again. Rare for six such atrocious sides to be down there at the same time. We are rightly down as we have stank the place out from day one, but the others are only very marginally better.

Am I right in thinking we’ve only won 2 games against those other 5 sides all season?

[Chris Black come back]

Correct of our relegation blood brothers, we have only beat Morecambe and Crewe. The former was 1-0 and the latter was 2-0.

[acacia94]

Chris its a pretty miserable time for us right now but your post in a way perfectly sums up this season. There's been millions of bytes of text pushed out there since last August about our Doncaster Rovers but 'stank the place out from day one' is a piece of brevity and in a strange way beauty.

[ravenrover]

Also upto now Richie as taken Leyton zOrient from 20th to 13th they were 4 points off the last safe place they are now 14 points from the last safe place. Leyton Orient have taken 19 pts in the 10 games he has been in charge.

Also Richie only had 19 league games and got 13pts so GMC is doing better. But both failed due to not enough quality players. Injuries to important players.

But it shows above with the right players for the level they are playing Richie has got 1.9 pts per game for Leyton Orient.

RW has done this with having no imput in players it's somebody elses team. Lets judge how good he is next season when he has brought in his own players, he didn't do very well with the dross he brought in for us

[GazLaz]

After 18.04.22:

Wellens: P 26. W 6 (23.1%), D 5 (19.2%), L 15 (57.7%). PPG: 0.88

McSheffrey: P 26. W 6 (23.1%), D 3 (11.5%), L 17 (65.4%) PPG: 0.81.

Again, the much-touted improvements under McSheffrey don't seem to be translating into better results. That's despite a significant increase in the playing budget in January.

Surely 18 points in 18 games and 12 points in the last 12 is an improvement on what went before?

You can adjust the sample size and make whatever argument you want. For instance, over the last 8 games we've picked up 5 points at a rate of 0.625 points per game. Over the season that would have us bottom.

Like I said, McSheffrey's playing budget was substantially increased in January and there's been no tangible improvement.

The big increase in wage bill is nonsense. Bogle and Williams leaving will have covered a big chunk of the incomings.

[Chris Black come back]

How much were those two on?!?

Genuinely. Bogle on what, 2 or 3k per week? Williams on 1k per week?

[ChrisBx]

After 18.04.22:

Wellens: P 26. W 6 (23.1%), D 5 (19.2%), L 15 (57.7%). PPG: 0.88

McSheffrey: P 26. W 6 (23.1%), D 3 (11.5%), L 17 (65.4%) PPG: 0.81.

Again, the much-touted improvements under McSheffrey don't seem to be translating into better results. That's despite a significant increase in the playing budget in January.

Surely 18 points in 18 games and 12 points in the last 12 is an improvement on what went before?

You can adjust the sample size and make whatever argument you want. For instance, over the last 8 games we've picked up 5 points at a rate of 0.625 points per game. Over the season that would have us bottom.

Like I said, McSheffrey's playing budget was substantially increased in January and there's been no tangible improvement.

The big increase in wage bill is nonsense. Bogle and Williams leaving will have covered a big chunk of the incomings.

Take that up with Gavin Baldwin as it's his claim.

[steve@dcfd]

Also upto now Richie as taken Leyton zOrient from 20th to 13th they were 4 points off the last safe place they are now 14 points from the last safe place. Leyton Orient have taken 19 pts in the 10 games he has been in charge.

Also Richie only had 19 league games and got 13pts so GMC is doing better. But both failed due to not enough quality players. Injuries to important players.

But it shows above with the right players for the level they are playing Richie has got 1.9 pts per game for Leyton Orient.

RW has done this with having no imput in players it's somebody elses team. Lets judge how good he is next season when he has brought in his own players, he didn't do very well with the dross he brought in for us

He’ll get better backing whatever he needs than what he got here. Let’s not forget the side he’s got have put near enough promotion form in the last 10 games. The people who never liked him got there way here he’s moved on and Orient are seeing the best of Richie. When you don’t have the right money you have to spread it out.

[steve@dcfd]

After 18.04.22:

Wellens: P 26. W 6 (23.1%), D 5 (19.2%), L 15 (57.7%). PPG: 0.88

McSheffrey: P 26. W 6 (23.1%), D 3 (11.5%), L 17 (65.4%) PPG: 0.81.

Again, the much-touted improvements under McSheffrey don't seem to be translating into better results. That's despite a significant increase in the playing budget in January.

Surely 18 points in 18 games and 12 points in the last 12 is an improvement on what went before?

You can adjust the sample size and make whatever argument you want. For instance, over the last 8 games we've picked up 5 points at a rate of 0.625 points per game. Over the season that would have us bottom.

Like I said, McSheffrey's playing budget was substantially increased in January and there's been no tangible improvement.

The big increase in wage bill is nonsense. Bogle and Williams leaving will have covered a big chunk of the incomings.

That’s probably why they were chosen to move on and why they didn’t want to go.

[ChrisBx]

For the final time:

Wellens: P 26. W 6 (23.1%), D 5 (19.2%), L 15 (57.7%). PPG: 0.88

McSheffrey: P 28. W 7 (25%), D 4 (14.3%), L 17 (60.7%) PPG: 0.89.

Remarkably similar. Both shite.

[colincramb]

Interesting comparison. It certainly provides some evidence to those that are so convinced we are turning a corner that it’s not really the case. If anything the football is worse.

Ultimately the morecambe debacle has cost us in the end. And I single that game out purely on the fact we lost from an almost impossible position. Truly shameful

[steve@dcfd]

RW 26 games included cup games not all league so not fair to judge. One thing to notice is we’ve won more under McSheffrey but drawn less and loss more. If we could have turned those 2 extra defeats into wins we would have not been relegated.

So we need to defend better and most important score more goals. We need anther good striker who has experience of league 2 and 1 to add to our front line . We can’t just rely on Okenabirhie being fit.

[Dare to dream!]

McSheffrey had a better squad to pick from but didn’t have the benefit of a pre-season.

Hard to decide but can’t say it fills me with hope for next season.

[DonnyBazR0ver]

Feels better to me under GMc but more perhaps due to the personnel available rather than picking out any managerial nouse.

GMc is the Head Coach until someone tells us different so gets my support and I hope he goes on to prove he's worthy of taking us forward from here.

[DonnyOsmond]

Interesting comparison. It certainly provides some evidence to those that are so convinced we are turning a corner that it’s not really the case. If anything the football is worse.

Ultimately the morecambe debacle has cost us in the end. And I single that game out purely on the fact we lost from an almost impossible position. Truly shameful

We are improving, we've had the better xG in 4 of the last 5 games previous to today.

[colincramb]

GM’s record also inflated by the wins at Mk dons and Sunderland - 2 games that were highly unlikely wins. In the games that ultimately mattered he’s come up woefully short

[Chris Black come back]

Both of them hugely unconvincing.

[Barmby Rover]

Today was our 38th league game this season. Wellens managed the first 19 games, and McSheffrey the last 19 games. 50/50.

Wellens 13 points
McSheffrey 16 points


Stop blaming the manager when simply buying in the right players would make a massive difference.

You could make the argument that given McSheffrey had the January window and has a better squad than Wellens had available for selection, he's had a marginally stronger hand.

Either way, they are both pretty much as disappointing as each other. What a mess.

[DonnyBazR0ver]

Well, let's hope Copps can tell the difference seeing them both operating up close where it matters.

[ditch_drfc]

Anyone can take some stats and massage them into whatever case they like as proof that their opinion is fact.

My opinion - both RW and GM are nowhere near the level I expect of Rovers manager.

[steve@dcfd]

The board appointed managers staff  and players with the right DNA yet 17 wins Fromm 77 games 22% win ratio says differently they got it wrong starting with Andy Butler the Richie Wellens to Gary McSheffrey.
They set on Younger a talent identification manager and he assisted in bringing in 22 players yet we still got relegated. We’ve had to pay wages and loan fees for those players. It is one of the worst declines in the club’s history.
Posters were got at for being to negative in the summer and January. We were told to early with 20 games to go that we will be relegated. We were told in one of the interviews by GB in November we were not in a relegation battle.
The Club as got it wrong dependant on who was the manager. Big summer required. Let’s not just rely on Copps please.

[DonnyBazR0ver]

The board appointed managers staff  and players with the right DNA yet 17 wins Fromm 77 games 22% win ratio says differently they got it wrong starting with Andy Butler the Richie Wellens to Gary McSheffrey.
They set on Younger a talent identification manager and he assisted in bringing in 22 players yet we still got relegated. We’ve had to pay wages and loan fees for those players. It is one of the worst declines in the club’s history.
Posters were got at for being to negative in the summer and January. We were told to early with 20 games to go that we will be relegated. We were told in one of the interviews by GB in November we were not in a relegation battle.
The Club as got it wrong dependant on who was the manager. Big summer required. Let’s not just rely on Copps please.

16th September was the article with GB.

Injuries screwed both managers and we didn't recover enough. I don't think anyone could forsee how long those key players would be out for.

[steve@dcfd]

The board appointed managers staff  and players with the right DNA yet 17 wins Fromm 77 games 22% win ratio says differently they got it wrong starting with Andy Butler the Richie Wellens to Gary McSheffrey.
They set on Younger a talent identification manager and he assisted in bringing in 22 players yet we still got relegated. We’ve had to pay wages and loan fees for those players. It is one of the worst declines in the club’s history.
Posters were got at for being to negative in the summer and January. We were told to early with 20 games to go that we will be relegated. We were told in one of the interviews by GB in November we were not in a relegation battle.
The Club as got it wrong dependant on who was the manager. Big summer required. Let’s not just rely on Copps please.

16th September was the article with GB.

Injuries screwed both managers and we didn't recover enough. I don't think anyone could forsee how long those key players would be out for.

But it should have been sorted quicker we shouldn’t have had players out for this length of time. Major questions should have been asked we are paying for their medical care. If these players were so important as we know they were then it should have been the critical path to ensure they injuries were sorted.

[BillyStubbsTears]

After 18.04.22:

Wellens: P 26. W 6 (23.1%), D 5 (19.2%), L 15 (57.7%). PPG: 0.88

McSheffrey: P 26. W 6 (23.1%), D 3 (11.5%), L 17 (65.4%) PPG: 0.81.

Again, the much-touted improvements under McSheffrey don't seem to be translating into better results. That's despite a significant increase in the playing budget in January.

Surely 18 points in 18 games and 12 points in the last 12 is an improvement on what went before?

You can adjust the sample size and make whatever argument you want. For instance, over the last 8 games we've picked up 5 points at a rate of 0.625 points per game. Over the season that would have us bottom.

Like I said, McSheffrey's playing budget was substantially increased in January and there's been no tangible improvement.

The big increase in wage bill is nonsense. Bogle and Williams leaving will have covered a big chunk of the incomings.

That doesn't make any sense.

Are you saying Hartlepool and a semi-pro American side are paying very significant wages to Bogle and Williams?

To me, there's no doubt that (if Bogle and Williams were on high wages) we must have paid them off with substantial sums. The net benefit would have been relatively minor.

[Chris Black come back]

It’s a different point, but neither player proved to be good enough for a side with even mid-table aspirations in League One. Moore wasted a lot of money and we had to suffer the consequences, and Wellens had to deal with this, as imperfectly as he did in the end.

[Sammy Chung was King]

I hope he builds a side we can all be proud of and proves me wrong. Get a good pre season schedule, right sides at the right time and build momentum. There can be no excuses if things don’t go right.

[dickos1]

Anyone can take some stats and massage them into whatever case they like as proof that their opinion is fact.

My opinion - both RW and GM are nowhere near the level I expect of Rovers manager.

I reckon wellens is already proving he’s a decent manager, completely transformed Leyton orients season

[Campsall rover]

Anyone can take some stats and massage them into whatever case they like as proof that their opinion is fact.

My opinion - both RW and GM are nowhere near the level I expect of Rovers manager.

I reckon wellens is already proving he’s a decent manager, completely transformed Leyton orients season

So why did he make such a pigs ear of it at Rovers? 
How did he completely lose the players because that is what happened.

[dickos1]

I’ve no idea,
I don’t think he lost the players, I just don’t think they were good enough to play how he wanted