Coppinger - Half Time

[River Don]

The result in isolation was an ok one. In the situation we are in it’s obviously not enough. GM has got us a point a game since he came in. Much better than what went before him. Is he brilliant? No. Is he completely useless? No. Are we a better team than when he took over? Yes. Is he good enough to get us straight back up? Possibly.

I agree with this and I would add the point I made in the other thread. Rovers have been changing manager far too often recently, I think  a bit of stability would not go amiss.

[karlos]

I don’t think it matters who is the manager for me the problem is the people above who make the decisions!

[dickos1]

Of course there are,

what are they?

Performances have improved since Wycombe,
We’ve scored 6 goals in 3 games, after scoring 0 in 5/6.
His signings have started to come good

so you’re using a pool of 3 games?

You asked what the improvements were
I’ve given you some,

you cannot use such a small pool though Dickos I think you probably know you’re clutching at straws. For me since Mansfield at home in the cup we’ve been appalling. I genuinely can’t think of one reason as to why Mcsheffrey should be our manager next season. And if anyone can I am genuinely interested to hear what they are.

I think there have been better performances under him, games we should’ve won but poor finishing cost us.
Cambridge away
Plymouth at home
Even Bolton at home
Good performances against sides like sheff wed, Wigan,

We’ve also had some very good wins under him that we hadn’t achieved before he came
Sunderland, mk dons, Lincoln,

I didn’t want us to sack wellens but I think it’s pretty clear things have improved on and off the pitch under mcsheffrey

[Pliskin]

A few players have come into fitness recently and yes, we've resembled a somewhat competitive side against 2 teams with nothing to play for and another against bottom of the league.

That this is considered to be an improvement shows how low the bar has been set.

Improvement means you have become better than what you were. Also, it’s not a static thing.

Well this is it. A marginal short term improvement on your own poor record due to factors outside your control is hardly worth championing as an improvement.

[Copps is Magic]

"Things have improved"

Give us the improvements then. Mention results, goals conceded and goals scored in your answer,

[Donnybax]

Of course there are,

what are they?

Performances have improved since Wycombe,
We’ve scored 6 goals in 3 games, after scoring 0 in 5/6.
His signings have started to come good

so you’re using a pool of 3 games?

You asked what the improvements were
I’ve given you some,

you cannot use such a small pool though Dickos I think you probably know you’re clutching at straws. For me since Mansfield at home in the cup we’ve been appalling. I genuinely can’t think of one reason as to why Mcsheffrey should be our manager next season. And if anyone can I am genuinely interested to hear what they are.

I think there have been better performances under him, games we should’ve won but poor finishing cost us.
Cambridge away
Plymouth at home
Even Bolton at home
Good performances against sides like sheff wed, Wigan,

We’ve also had some very good wins under him that we hadn’t achieved before he came
Sunderland, mk dons, Lincoln,

I didn’t want us to sack wellens but I think it’s pretty clear things have improved on and off the pitch under mcsheffrey

equally we had some decent performances under Wellens. Sheff Wednesday away, Plymouth away, camebridge at home without winning. The wins you mention were in my opinion complete flukes. We won them with around 20% of the ball. That’s just not sustainable. I wouldn’t know how things have improved off the pitch I’m not privy to that and would have to take your word for it. I’m not trying to be awkward and I admire the optimism but I just don’t see the improvements

[dickos1]

"Things have improved"

Give us the improvements then. Mention results, goals conceded and goals scored in your answer,

One clear improvement since he came is our away form.
0 wins before he came.

Not consistently but we have had numerous games where we have created plenty of chances, before he arrived we created very few chances

[dickos1]

Of course there are,

what are they?

Performances have improved since Wycombe,
We’ve scored 6 goals in 3 games, after scoring 0 in 5/6.
His signings have started to come good

so you’re using a pool of 3 games?

You asked what the improvements were
I’ve given you some,

you cannot use such a small pool though Dickos I think you probably know you’re clutching at straws. For me since Mansfield at home in the cup we’ve been appalling. I genuinely can’t think of one reason as to why Mcsheffrey should be our manager next season. And if anyone can I am genuinely interested to hear what they are.

I think there have been better performances under him, games we should’ve won but poor finishing cost us.
Cambridge away
Plymouth at home
Even Bolton at home
Good performances against sides like sheff wed, Wigan,

We’ve also had some very good wins under him that we hadn’t achieved before he came
Sunderland, mk dons, Lincoln,

I didn’t want us to sack wellens but I think it’s pretty clear things have improved on and off the pitch under mcsheffrey

equally we had some decent performances under Wellens. Sheff Wednesday away, Plymouth away, camebridge at home without winning. The wins you mention were in my opinion complete flukes. We won them with around 20% of the ball. That’s just not sustainable. I wouldn’t know how things have improved off the pitch I’m not privy to that and would have to take your word for it. I’m not trying to be awkward and I admire the optimism but I just don’t see the improvements

Cambridge at home wasnt great for me, we had a 20 min spell where we were on top.
There’s been plenty of games where we have played well and deserved more, but lacked the cutting edge.
Mcsheffrey has made better signings for me too,

[scawsby steve]

Why are people debating this? Both managers have been utterly atrocious.

This has been one of the worst seasons in our entire history. That says it all.

[Donnybax]

Of course there are,

what are they?

Performances have improved since Wycombe,
We’ve scored 6 goals in 3 games, after scoring 0 in 5/6.
His signings have started to come good

so you’re using a pool of 3 games?

You asked what the improvements were
I’ve given you some,

you cannot use such a small pool though Dickos I think you probably know you’re clutching at straws. For me since Mansfield at home in the cup we’ve been appalling. I genuinely can’t think of one reason as to why Mcsheffrey should be our manager next season. And if anyone can I am genuinely interested to hear what they are.

I think there have been better performances under him, games we should’ve won but poor finishing cost us.
Cambridge away
Plymouth at home
Even Bolton at home
Good performances against sides like sheff wed, Wigan,

We’ve also had some very good wins under him that we hadn’t achieved before he came
Sunderland, mk dons, Lincoln,

I didn’t want us to sack wellens but I think it’s pretty clear things have improved on and off the pitch under mcsheffrey

equally we had some decent performances under Wellens. Sheff Wednesday away, Plymouth away, camebridge at home without winning. The wins you mention were in my opinion complete flukes. We won them with around 20% of the ball. That’s just not sustainable. I wouldn’t know how things have improved off the pitch I’m not privy to that and would have to take your word for it. I’m not trying to be awkward and I admire the optimism but I just don’t see the improvements

Cambridge at home wasnt great for me, we had a 20 min spell where we were on top.
There’s been plenty of games where we have played well and deserved more, but lacked the cutting edge.
Mcsheffrey has made better signings for me too,

so genuinely believe mcsheffrey has done anything to deserve being the manager next season?

[dickos1]

I’d keep mcsheffrey yeah,
No value in constantly changing managers, he took over a team that was having an atrocious season,
In my opinion, with a pre season and his own squad I think he’ll do well.

[BillyStubbsTears]

Of course there are,

what are they?

Performances have improved since Wycombe,
We’ve scored 6 goals in 3 games, after scoring 0 in 5/6.
His signings have started to come good

so you’re using a pool of 3 games?

You asked what the improvements were
I’ve given you some,

you cannot use such a small pool though Dickos I think you probably know you’re clutching at straws. For me since Mansfield at home in the cup we’ve been appalling. I genuinely can’t think of one reason as to why Mcsheffrey should be our manager next season. And if anyone can I am genuinely interested to hear what they are.

I think there have been better performances under him, games we should’ve won but poor finishing cost us.
Cambridge away
Plymouth at home
Even Bolton at home
Good performances against sides like sheff wed, Wigan,

We’ve also had some very good wins under him that we hadn’t achieved before he came
Sunderland, mk dons, Lincoln,

I didn’t want us to sack wellens but I think it’s pretty clear things have improved on and off the pitch under mcsheffrey

equally we had some decent performances under Wellens. Sheff Wednesday away, Plymouth away, camebridge at home without winning. The wins you mention were in my opinion complete flukes. We won them with around 20% of the ball. That’s just not sustainable. I wouldn’t know how things have improved off the pitch I’m not privy to that and would have to take your word for it. I’m not trying to be awkward and I admire the optimism but I just don’t see the improvements

Cambridge at home wasnt great for me, we had a 20 min spell where we were on top.
There’s been plenty of games where we have played well and deserved more, but lacked the cutting edge.
Mcsheffrey has made better signings for me too,

"There have been plenty of games where we have played well and deserved more."

Jesus. The self-delusion of some folk.

We have won 34 points from 44 games.

Over 44 games, good and bad luck level out.

We have got precisely what our performances have warranted. The 3rd or 4th worst points haul in the past half century.

[River Don]

Despite all that BST,

Is another sacking and starting all over again really the best way forward?

[DRFCSouth]

Despite all that BST,

Is another sacking and starting all over again really the best way forward?

Why did we bother sacking RW, if we are saying this end result is acceptable?

[River Don]

Despite all that BST,

Is another sacking and starting all over again really the best way forward?

Why did we bother sacking RW, if we are saying this end result is acceptable?

Well, in the end I thought things were still deteriorating under Wellens but now I think a corner has been turned, even if it didn't happen in time to stop the drop.

[BillyStubbsTears]

RD

I've seen precisely zero evidence that a corner has been turned.

We were shite last August.

We were shite last December.

We are shite now.

I would sweep out as much as we possibly could from the management and playing staff (the latter being a problem because the last two managers have signed some very poor players) and I would start again with as clean a slate as we can manage.

[adamtherover]

the level of player (budget aside), a manager can scout and then convince to join is absolutely pivotal. fergie and mccan were masters at it,  every else recently were not :-(

[Chris Black come back]

"Things have improved"

Give us the improvements then. Mention results, goals conceded and goals scored in your answer,

One clear improvement since he came is our away form.
0 wins before he came.

Not consistently but we have had numerous games where we have created plenty of chances, before he arrived we created very few chances

Although his home form has been dire. Two wins only and one of those was against Crewe, which can barely count.

[danumdon]

If for anything else GM has to go due to not being able to mould this squad of players (in which a good number were his own) into something resembling a competitive team.

Whats he going to be able to achieve next season when we swim in an even shallower pool of players and resources.

I'd appraise this now,not in the summer when time has passed on, have a proper root and branch investigation into how the club has been allowed to degenerate into this mess and how certain personnel have performed their duties.

It should in all eventuality's result in a number of staff being relieved of their duties and moved on.

[GazLaz]

RD

I've seen precisely zero evidence that a corner has been turned.

We were shite last August.

We were shite last December.

We are shite now.

I would sweep out as much as we possibly could from the management and playing staff (the latter being a problem because the last two managers have signed some very poor players) and I would start again with as clean a slate as we can manage.

This doesn’t include todays game as the numbers haven’t been coded yet.. but the upward trend will continue when they are applied no doubt.

[Pliskin]

Surely whoever gets the Head of Football Operations role will have a significant influence in what happens with McSheffrey and the rest of the coaching setup.

The HoFO can't be expected to take responsibility for something they have no control over.

[danumdon]

RD

I've seen precisely zero evidence that a corner has been turned.

We were shite last August.

We were shite last December.

We are shite now.

I would sweep out as much as we possibly could from the management and playing staff (the latter being a problem because the last two managers have signed some very poor players) and I would start again with as clean a slate as we can manage.

This doesn’t include todays game as the numbers haven’t been coded yet.. but the upward trend will continue when they are applied no doubt.

With respect mate i don't profess to follow your stats but from what i can see GM has taken the best part of his tenure to get us back to where we were with RW, and we sacked him!!

[ChrisBx]

RD

I've seen precisely zero evidence that a corner has been turned.

We were shite last August.

We were shite last December.

We are shite now.

I would sweep out as much as we possibly could from the management and playing staff (the latter being a problem because the last two managers have signed some very poor players) and I would start again with as clean a slate as we can manage.

This doesn’t include todays game as the numbers haven’t been coded yet.. but the upward trend will continue when they are applied no doubt.

So in 20 of the games under GM, we were significantly worse than under RW?

[Donnybax]

So our, significant it must be said, upward trend has just got us to where we were under Wellens. That with a better squad as well

[Chris Black come back]

There were plenty of chancers in the squad in 97/98 but most of them were genuine triers, whether at the very start or very end of their careers. This season though we’ve put together a group of players - and a huge group at that - which have been hapless, hopeless, abject and suspect game in, game out.

[River Don]

RD

I've seen precisely zero evidence that a corner has been turned.

We were shite last August.

We were shite last December.

We are shite now.

I would sweep out as much as we possibly could from the management and playing staff (the latter being a problem because the last two managers have signed some very poor players) and I would start again with as clean a slate as we can manage.

This doesn’t include todays game as the numbers haven’t been coded yet.. but the upward trend will continue when they are applied no doubt.

With respect mate i don't profess to follow your stats but from what i can see GM has taken the best part of his tenure to get us back to where we were with RW, and we sacked him!!

Moving in the right direction now though.

[BillyStubbsTears]

RD

I've seen precisely zero evidence that a corner has been turned.

We were shite last August.

We were shite last December.

We are shite now.

I would sweep out as much as we possibly could from the management and playing staff (the latter being a problem because the last two managers have signed some very poor players) and I would start again with as clean a slate as we can manage.

This doesn’t include todays game as the numbers haven’t been coded yet.. but the upward trend will continue when they are applied no doubt.

Does that take into account the quality of the opposition? In the past 10 games before today, we had played 2 sides at the bottom end of the playoffs, 4 mid table sides and four sides in or around the worst relegation scrap in Tier 3 history.

That is almost certainly our easiest run of games of the entire season. So with everything else being precisely the same, you'd expect an improvement in GD.

[BillyStubbsTears]

RD

I've seen precisely zero evidence that a corner has been turned.

We were shite last August.

We were shite last December.

We are shite now.

I would sweep out as much as we possibly could from the management and playing staff (the latter being a problem because the last two managers have signed some very poor players) and I would start again with as clean a slate as we can manage.

This doesn’t include todays game as the numbers haven’t been coded yet.. but the upward trend will continue when they are applied no doubt.

That is a very interesting graph though. Superimpose into it the point at which Whiteman left.

[ditch_drfc]

RD

I've seen precisely zero evidence that a corner has been turned.

We were shite last August.

We were shite last December.

We are shite now.

I would sweep out as much as we possibly could from the management and playing staff (the latter being a problem because the last two managers have signed some very poor players) and I would start again with as clean a slate as we can manage.

This doesn’t include todays game as the numbers haven’t been coded yet.. but the upward trend will continue when they are applied no doubt.

And this is the reason we should keep GM? By your own stats in 90% of games under GM we had a worse XGD than Wellens.

Now we're back at Wellens level.. Which was relegation form.

How can anybody see this as a reason to keep GM? I genuinely can't understand it.

[jamesrover17]

Just put this on another thread, we need someone to steady the ship next season and stop the rot, we won’t be challenging for anything I don’t think