Will Starmer be "fine" or "fined" ?

[idler]

Starmer will win the next GE and lead the country to greatness.

I’ll settle for somebody who can stop the rot for a start.

[tyke1962]

Pointless Plastic Bollard .

I'll give Johnson that one , summed Keith up .

 

[albie]

One or two here missing an important point about Keith ruling out an electoral pact.

It surely means standing candidates in no hope seats, costing money that could go to winnable seats, as well as drawing numbers away from a possible non Tory with a better chance.

Given Labour are strapped for cash, it doesn't seem too wise.

Better to read the Forde Report before commenting on it, all 850 or so pages.
It has been around for a while, but the official release was delayed time after time.

As an intro to the back story, Tory commentator Peter Oborne wrote a useful summary in Jan 2021;
https://www.middleeasteye.net/opinion/labour-antisemitism-forde-inquiry-leaked-report-what-happening

[SydneyRover]

Well what any of the doubters say about Starmer, he's completed his first job with flying colours and has seen johnson off.

[SydneyRover]

Electoral pacts, anyone? maybe show where a party has announced that they would form any sort of a coalition in the pre-election period.

[tyke1962]

Well what any of the doubters say about Starmer, he's completed his first job with flying colours and has seen johnson off.

He's done absolutely nothing of the sort .

Johnson took himself down by his behaviour and the Tory Party eventually got rid .

[drfchound]

Well what any of the doubters say about Starmer, he's completed his first job with flying colours and has seen johnson off.

He's done absolutely nothing of the sort .

Johnson took himself down by his behaviour and the Tory Party eventually got rid .

Of course that is correct tyke but the Labour spin doctors will tell if differently.
On the other hand, if that is all Starmer has done (and it took three years apparently) then he has under achieved big time.
It was evidently the completion of his first job FFS.

[SydneyRover]

Well what any of the doubters say about Starmer, he's completed his first job with flying colours and has seen johnson off.

He's done absolutely nothing of the sort .

Johnson took himself down by his behaviour and the Tory Party eventually got rid .

You appear to know much less that I ever thought possible tykey, do you think that johnson would have been ousted without the good polls labour have been having. Think back how many times you've announced to your surprise that Starmer's tactics have been doing the job.

[albie]

Electoral pacts, anyone? maybe show where a party has announced that they would form any sort of a coalition in the pre-election period.

Syd, you are missing the point....whatever happened in the past is not relevant.

Labour has a rule that they will stand in every seat.
But they do not have the money to do so this time, and they need the Tories to lose seats in close call constituencies.

It is at least as important for Tories to lose to LD wherever they are second, as it is for Labour to regain red wall seats.

All this is before Labour face paying fines for the class actions brought against unlawful membership exclusions, and the illegal data breach of personal data of ex members.

Now unless a sugar daddy from the private health sector, or a foreign government, arrives with an open wallet, these issues have to be faced.

[tyke1962]

Well what any of the doubters say about Starmer, he's completed his first job with flying colours and has seen johnson off.

He's done absolutely nothing of the sort .

Johnson took himself down by his behaviour and the Tory Party eventually got rid .

You appear to know much less that I ever thought possible tykey, do you think that johnson would have been ousted without the good polls labour have been having. Think back how many times you've announced to your surprise that Starmer's tactics have been doing the job.

Your not looking at it the right way Syd .

Your trying to claim credit for something that doesn't exist .

Johnson fell foul of the Tory Party and so they got rid .

The biggest charlatan that's ever become this country's PM .

He was probably taking the Tories towards an election defeat had he remained in the job but that's not because of anything Keith's done .

If Keith had a 20 point lead they may well be something in what you are claiming but he hasn't .

You might want to ask yourself why that is .

[SydneyRover]

Tyke steadying the party, winning some important byelections and being ahead in the polls for 6 or more months ......... then getting under johnson's skin at PMQs. On top of that he has shown integrity where johnson and the tories clearly haven't. If the polls were good for the tories do you really think the so called red wall would have got rid of him, they saw him as their meal ticket up the point where they didn't.

[SydneyRover]

Electoral pacts, anyone? maybe show where a party has announced that they would form any sort of a coalition in the pre-election period.

Syd, you are missing the point....whatever happened in the past is not relevant.

Labour has a rule that they will stand in every seat.
But they do not have the money to do so this time, and they need the Tories to lose seats in close call constituencies.

It is at least as important for Tories to lose to LD wherever they are second, as it is for Labour to regain red wall seats.

All this is before Labour face paying fines for the class actions brought against unlawful membership exclusions, and the illegal data breach of personal data of ex members.

Now unless a sugar daddy from the private health sector, or a foreign government, arrives with an open wallet, these issues have to be faced.

red herring Albie, just answer the question please.

[tyke1962]

Tyke steadying the party, winning some important byelections and being ahead in the polls for 6 or more months ......... then getting under johnson's skin at PMQs. On top of that he has shown integrity where johnson and the tories clearly haven't. If the polls were good for the tories do you really think the so called red wall would have got rid of him, they saw him as their meal ticket up the point where they didn't.

Labour in my opinion are where they were between 2010 - 2015 under Ed Miliband .

They most certainly aren't where they were in the mid 90's under Blair .

The country needs to be convinced that Labour will improve people's lives and that they can pay for it .

At this moment in time that's far from clear .

They've won a couple of by elections in seats they were expected to hold or win back .

It's the Dems who have had the biggest impact by winning seats convincingly in the Tory strongholds .

I'm sick and tired of hearing what we already know , the Tories are terrible , everyone knows they are , even their most tribal voter knows they are and they spent two live tv debates telling the country how terrible each and everyone of them was who wanted to be PM .

The biggest criticism I have of Keith is that he's no minerals and this at a time in history when the country is crying out for strong leadership and vision .

The play to let Johnson fall on his sword and sit tight was in my opinion no plan at all its just that inadvertently the chips have fallen Keith's way by doing so .

Quite conceivably Covid 19 wouldn't have happened .

The cost of living crisis may not have happened because of the above and the war in Ukraine may not have happened either .

So his tactic of standing back and watching Johnson implode wouldn't have worked out .

Johnson to be fair and even factoring the charlatan he is has been extremely unlucky to govern this country with the events that have unfolded .

[SydneyRover]

tykey tykey tykey the things that you conveniently forget are that labour will be able to do absolutely nothing from opposition and that British voters have told you and quite a few others exactly where to shove a far left government. That may of course change but as of this moment I can't hear the drums.

I'm not surprised you are sick of hearing 'what we already know' maybe because you keep posting the same old same old.

[big fat yorkshire pudding]

Tyke makes a good point on Johnson, he may well have been hugely successful without Covid and Ukraine. But being PM means you have to deal with whatever is thrown your way and he messed it up in the end through his own actions not necessarily what he did in terms of policy etc.

Where the conservatives have a massive issue is they don't know what they stand for now and that's a real problem. If you're clear and have a consistent message/purpose you'll win.  I'm not sure either party yet has that.  We don't know what labours policies are to be we just know so far they aren't the Tories. That's how they'll be judged at the election not on Boris having some cake.

So what is Starmer and what does he stand for? We still don't really know. He might be a decent guy but what's his policies.  Milliband and Hague were decent guys they got trounced.  Even Theresa may was a good person she just couldn't do the job.

[tyke1962]

tykey tykey tykey the things that you conveniently forget are that labour will be able to do absolutely nothing from opposition and that British voters have told you and quite a few others exactly where to shove a far left government. That may of course change but as of this moment I can't hear the drums.

I'm not surprised you are sick of hearing 'what we already know' maybe because you keep posting the same old same old.

If the only Labour position is that they are not the Tories then what on earth are you expecting me to comment on Sydney ? .

[SydneyRover]

Pud the tories haven't known firm ground for a long time, way before johnson, do you think the average traditional tory would have voted for a lying wastrel at any other time in their history. Voting  johnson into the PMs position was an act of desperation, admittedly aided and abetted by corbyn but I would have still voted for labour. The tory brand is trashed, just look at what you are being offered up now, how can you possibly have two such different views on where they are going and both be correct?

Conservatism is you, your party, you regularly vote for them and support conservative values. Maybe you should be saying 'we'

[SydneyRover]

tykey tykey tykey the things that you conveniently forget are that labour will be able to do absolutely nothing from opposition and that British voters have told you and quite a few others exactly where to shove a far left government. That may of course change but as of this moment I can't hear the drums.

I'm not surprised you are sick of hearing 'what we already know' maybe because you keep posting the same old same old.

If the only Labour position is that they are not the Tories then what on earth are you expecting me to comment on Sydney ? .

You are letting the perfect spoil the good tyke, you fell for the tory bullshit that the EU were spoiling your fun, lie back and savour it.

[tyke1962]

tykey tykey tykey the things that you conveniently forget are that labour will be able to do absolutely nothing from opposition and that British voters have told you and quite a few others exactly where to shove a far left government. That may of course change but as of this moment I can't hear the drums.

I'm not surprised you are sick of hearing 'what we already know' maybe because you keep posting the same old same old.

If the only Labour position is that they are not the Tories then what on earth are you expecting me to comment on Sydney ? .

You are letting the perfect spoil the good tyke, you fell for the tory bullshit that the EU were spoiling your fun, lie back and savour it.

Except I was against the EU since around the time of Thatcher and Major and before Johnson and Mogg had a single pubic hair between them .

You need to stop bleating about leaving the EU and accept the democratic decision and that goes for many others on here .

You've lost the argument the same as I did in 84/85 but I didn't spend the next 6 years throwing myself on the supermarket floor like a spoiled child denied some sweets .

Keith's accepted it so why can't you lot ?

The more you lot keep bleating on about this thing sowing even more division the less likely you are to be rid of the Tories .

Now whose the " Thickos" and culture war warriors ?

[SydneyRover]

tykey tykey tykey the things that you conveniently forget are that labour will be able to do absolutely nothing from opposition and that British voters have told you and quite a few others exactly where to shove a far left government. That may of course change but as of this moment I can't hear the drums.

I'm not surprised you are sick of hearing 'what we already know' maybe because you keep posting the same old same old.

If the only Labour position is that they are not the Tories then what on earth are you expecting me to comment on Sydney ? .

You are letting the perfect spoil the good tyke, you fell for the tory bullshit that the EU were spoiling your fun, lie back and savour it.

Except I was against the EU since around the time of Thatcher and Major and before Johnson and Mogg had a single pubic hair between them .

You need to stop bleating about leaving the EU and accept the democratic decision and that goes for many others on here .

You've lost the argument the same as I did in 84/85 but I didn't spend the next 6 years throwing myself on the supermarket floor like a spoiled child denied some sweets .

Keith's accepted it so why can't you lot ?

The more you lot keep bleating on about this thing sowing even more division the less likely you are to be rid of the Tories .

Now whose the " Thickos" and culture war warriors ?

Lost in the fantasy tyke, I bleat about the consequences and those that are delivering poverty to the masses. Accept that johnson was in power because people either voted directly for him or failed to vote against him.

I'm still waiting you to name your champion which you studiously ignore.

And, what were you raging against in 1979 tyke?

[wing commander]

 Sydney spoken like a die hard Labour man with blinkers on.. As a neutral i hold the Labour party nearly as much to blame as the conservatives.A strong opposition leads to a strong goverment and Starmer and Labour are as weak as kittens.

  If you for one minute think Starmer has the public support you are mistaken. Nobody has a scooby doo what they actually stand for these days. They have no policy's none that i'm aware of anyway.

Dont get to confident because if the new Tory leader gets off to a good start they will rinse Starmer inside out..

[SydneyRover]

It may help if you explain what you are blaming them for, I agree that a strong opposition is required no matter who is in power. I point to the polls for the previous 6 months, why would you stick your neck out if you are leading?

[big fat yorkshire pudding]

It may help if you explain what you are blaming them for, I agree that a strong opposition is required no matter who is in power. I point to the polls for the previous 6 months, why would you stick your neck out if you are leading?

Polls, yes Polls

https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/trackers/keir-starmer-approval-rating

https://docs.cdn.yougov.com/y2hnts6bxg/Main_FavourabilityTracker_W.pdf

Interesting to see favourablility in Labour isn't particularly high, more the drop for the Tories, if the Tories improve (big if) that will clearly harm Labour.  Labour need to focus on improving their image as they're ahead despite of themselves and their leader not because of it.

[SydneyRover]

It may help if you explain what you are blaming them for, I agree that a strong opposition is required no matter who is in power. I point to the polls for the previous 6 months, why would you stick your neck out if you are leading?

Polls, yes Polls

https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/trackers/keir-starmer-approval-rating

https://docs.cdn.yougov.com/y2hnts6bxg/Main_FavourabilityTracker_W.pdf

Interesting to see favourablility in Labour isn't particularly high, more the drop for the Tories, if the Tories improve (big if) that will clearly harm Labour.  Labour need to focus on improving their image as they're ahead despite of themselves and their leader not because of it.

Are you saying it's better to behind in the polls pud?

[BillyStubbsTears]

Sydney spoken like a die hard Labour man with blinkers on.. As a neutral i hold the Labour party nearly as much to blame as the conservatives.A strong opposition leads to a strong goverment and Starmer and Labour are as weak as kittens.

  If you for one minute think Starmer has the public support you are mistaken. Nobody has a scooby doo what they actually stand for these days. They have no policy's none that i'm aware of anyway.

Dont get to confident because if the new Tory leader gets off to a good start they will rinse Starmer inside out..

Let me get this right.

The Tories chose  someone who we all knew was a lifelong pathological liar, who thought morality was an Estee Lauder perfume. And it's Labour's fault?!?

[Ldr]

Billy bullshitter strikes again, Wing Commander says nothing of the sort, you seem to like misrepresenting things

[albie]

Syd,

Far from being a red herring, it is the central question facing Labour.
Polls are nothing to the point at this stage in the electoral cycle.

Labour are down to 382k paid-up members.
Membership was reported to be 570,000 in July 2020. That's a huge loss of members and revenue.

Labour had £13.5m in reserves built up under Corbyn, now frittered away by the Starmeroids to the edge of bankruptcy.

Keith chose to settle out of court with the BBC Panorama complainants, despite legal advice that their claims were invalid. We now have it confirmed by Forde that these allegations were unsubstantiated, as Keith was advised.

You cannot just ignore financial peril when it stares you in the face.

How do you think Labour should build up capacity to contest a GE, in the next 2 years?
.....private donations, commercial sponsorship, what?

[drfchound]

tykey tykey tykey the things that you conveniently forget are that labour will be able to do absolutely nothing from opposition and that British voters have told you and quite a few others exactly where to shove a far left government. That may of course change but as of this moment I can't hear the drums.

I'm not surprised you are sick of hearing 'what we already know' maybe because you keep posting the same old same old.

If the only Labour position is that they are not the Tories then what on earth are you expecting me to comment on Sydney ? .

You are letting the perfect spoil the good tyke, you fell for the tory bullshit that the EU were spoiling your fun, lie back and savour it.

Except I was against the EU since around the time of Thatcher and Major and before Johnson and Mogg had a single pubic hair between them .

You need to stop bleating about leaving the EU and accept the democratic decision and that goes for many others on here .

You've lost the argument the same as I did in 84/85 but I didn't spend the next 6 years throwing myself on the supermarket floor like a spoiled child denied some sweets .

Keith's accepted it so why can't you lot ?

The more you lot keep bleating on about this thing sowing even more division the less likely you are to be rid of the Tories .

Now whose the " Thickos" and culture war warriors ?

You will upset a few with that post tyke, especially the one who it doesn’t even affect.

[Colemans Left Hook]

I heard a very small part of a sky reporter Beth's (Mrs Coleman heard her speaking the other day and thought she was a man til she saw her) interview last night

He said we didn't have children for politics  ( having a right go at that conservative who was the leader of the labour party - and was also a failed rock star )

then he mentioned about supporting Arsenal and mentioned he is always home for friday night and prayers ( that could be why Arsenal have improved )..... when questioned on this he "moved around" on this point 


November 16, 2020 14:05  Starmer: Our kids are being brought up to know their Jewish backgrounds

Labour leader tells Desert Island Discs of 'long tradition of family and faith'

https://www.thejc.com/news/uk/starmer-our-kids-are-being-brought-up-to-know-their-jewish-backgrounds-1.508720

We do all know the children follow the religion of their Mother in such a case.


from wikipedia
Personal life

Starmer married Victoria Alexander in 2007.[221] She was previously a solicitor but now works in NHS occupational health.[5][222] The couple's son and daughter are being brought up in the Jewish faith of their mother and the family attend shabbat dinners.[9] Starmer himself stated he does not believe in God but does "believe in faith" and its power to bring people together.[223] Starmer is a keen footballer, having played for Homerton Academicals, a north London amateur team,[224] and supports Premier League side Arsenal.[5]

Starmer is a vegetarian, believing that "it's better for yourself and for the environment".[225]


listening to the whole interview goes onto my bucket list at least I learned somrething I didn't know about him

[selby]

  Did it mention him being a Quisling and back stabber? he can't be trusted to go to a shop with a list of goods.
  He has more faces than a diamond.