So thats why Fergy left!

[Glyn_Wigley]

Fergie wanted more money to spend, the club said you're getting enough to do a good job. Any other spin on that is conjecture as far as I can see.

[dickos1]

I think he’s right in what he says,
After that first season of consolidation we needed to push on and try and get into the championship.
But for whatever reason we didn’t do that,
As SM has stated Mccann over achieved, that squad wasn’t great but was topped up with very good loan players.
We should’ve signed better players after that season but the necessary money wasn’t made available.

[no eyed deer]

Fergie wanted more money to spend, the club said you're getting enough to do a good job. Any other spin on that is conjecture as far as I can see.

That's not how I see it now and back then.  Many said the board were happy with league one no ambition, but on record said they otherwise.

Just look at which league we are in now !

It's all about balancing the books, yet told top 5 budget?

[DonnyBazR0ver]

I think he’s right in what he says,
After that first season of consolidation we needed to push on and try and get into the championship.
But for whatever reason we didn’t do that,
As SM has stated Mccann over achieved, that squad wasn’t great but was topped up with very good loan players.
We should’ve signed better players after that season but the necessary money wasn’t made available.

We could argue Fergie under achieved and McCann achieved by using his resources better.

I don't think anyone outside the club and answer that with any authority.

The issue is, Fergie's state of mind which led him to make the decision to walk and the way he did it.

He could easily have discussed his feelings with the board but he may have thought they might persuade him to stay on, offer him time off with his dad's situation but, he'd already made his decision and wasn't prepared to try what McCann subsequently did.

[Donny Exile in York]

I think he’s right in what he says,
After that first season of consolidation we needed to push on and try and get into the championship.
But for whatever reason we didn’t do that,
As SM has stated Mccann over achieved, that squad wasn’t great but was topped up with very good loan players.
We should’ve signed better players after that season but the necessary money wasn’t made available.

We could argue Fergie under achieved and McCann achieved by using his resources better.

I don't think anyone outside the club and answer that with any authority.

The issue is, Fergie's state of mind which led him to make the decision to walk and the way he did it.

He could easily have discussed his feelings with the board but he may have thought they might persuade him to stay on, offer him time off with his dad's situation but, he'd already made his decision and wasn't prepared to try what McCann subsequently did.

You refer to anyone outside the club can answer without authority then speculate that Fergie could have announced his feelings, believing it is as simple as that. Fergie Senior has been referred previously to calling the Donny Board tight. Personally i agree with the post from No Eyed deer, alot of spin and conjecture at the time, and i distinctly remember hearing Baldwin talk about us flirting with the play offs for a few years, my impression then was we would like to flirt with the play offs but that's as far as our ambitions go, the Championship is a step too far, and that is why our 5 year business plan to the championship was aspiration only imho. Aligned to the comments Dickov made in public about being asked to state in public our budget was better than it was, and i am inclined to believe we have had alot of spin but a number of managers good and bad have all suggested that we didn't have the stomach for a tilt in the championship again. As Bramall is reputed to have said about 8 years ago, the party is over.. history has proved that to be the case.

[DonnyNoel]

I didn't see that as hugely damning. Lots of people jumping on the last couple of paragraphs without ignoring the many positives. Football has changed a lot since JR and the KM2 pumped vast amounts of cash to get to the Championship, it's virtually a Premier League 2 now.

[vaya]

I think he’s right in what he says,
After that first season of consolidation we needed to push on and try and get into the championship.
But for whatever reason we didn’t do that,
As SM has stated Mccann over achieved, that squad wasn’t great but was topped up with very good loan players.
We should’ve signed better players after that season but the necessary money wasn’t made available.

We could argue Fergie under achieved and McCann achieved by using his resources better.

I don't think anyone outside the club and answer that with any authority.

The issue is, Fergie's state of mind which led him to make the decision to walk and the way he did it.

He could easily have discussed his feelings with the board but he may have thought they might persuade him to stay on, offer him time off with his dad's situation but, he'd already made his decision and wasn't prepared to try what McCann subsequently did.

You refer to anyone outside the club can answer without authority then speculate that Fergie could have announced his feelings, believing it is as simple as that. Fergie Senior has been referred previously to calling the Donny Board tight. Personally i agree with the post from No Eyed deer, alot of spin and conjecture at the time, and i distinctly remember hearing Baldwin talk about us flirting with the play offs for a few years, my impression then was we would like to flirt with the play offs but that's as far as our ambitions go, the Championship is a step too far, and that is why our 5 year business plan to the championship was aspiration only imho. Aligned to the comments Dickov made in public about being asked to state in public our budget was better than it was, and i am inclined to believe we have had alot of spin but a number of managers good and bad have all suggested that we didn't have the stomach for a tilt in the championship again. As Bramall is reputed to have said about 8 years ago, the party is over.. history has proved that to be the case.

You're not going to start your conspiracy theory about Rowe missing his penalty on purpose again are you?

[Donny Exile in York]

I think he’s right in what he says,
After that first season of consolidation we needed to push on and try and get into the championship.
But for whatever reason we didn’t do that,
As SM has stated Mccann over achieved, that squad wasn’t great but was topped up with very good loan players.
We should’ve signed better players after that season but the necessary money wasn’t made available.

We could argue Fergie under achieved and McCann achieved by using his resources better.

I don't think anyone outside the club and answer that with any authority.

The issue is, Fergie's state of mind which led him to make the decision to walk and the way he did it.

He could easily have discussed his feelings with the board but he may have thought they might persuade him to stay on, offer him time off with his dad's situation but, he'd already made his decision and wasn't prepared to try what McCann subsequently did.

You refer to anyone outside the club can answer without authority then speculate that Fergie could have announced his feelings, believing it is as simple as that. Fergie Senior has been referred previously to calling the Donny Board tight. Personally i agree with the post from No Eyed deer, alot of spin and conjecture at the time, and i distinctly remember hearing Baldwin talk about us flirting with the play offs for a few years, my impression then was we would like to flirt with the play offs but that's as far as our ambitions go, the Championship is a step too far, and that is why our 5 year business plan to the championship was aspiration only imho. Aligned to the comments Dickov made in public about being asked to state in public our budget was better than it was, and i am inclined to believe we have had alot of spin but a number of managers good and bad have all suggested that we didn't have the stomach for a tilt in the championship again. As Bramall is reputed to have said about 8 years ago, the party is over.. history has proved that to be the case.

You're not going to start your conspiracy theory about Rowe missing his penalty on purpose again are you?

You still in demial for the spin over the last 5 years? Still here in the cheapseats are we? Still burying your head in the sand and wondering why we are not top of league one or in rhe Championship cos Blunt and Baldwin say it is so...

Let's hope we have turned a chapter with the appointment of Coppinger giving credibility to the recruitment. Other areas of the club still need improving though like the programme, the fact the South stand had a kiosk closed last Saturday, huge queues and no pies. Lots to work on to improve the match day experience. But 3 points helped.

[silent majority]

There's nothing in what he says in that article that is particularly damning about his time with us. He days the club were very supportive when he could have been sacked.

He had a League One budget in League Two and yes, he got us promoted barring a poor end to the season when winning the league was in our sights.

Thrre's nothing particularly wrong with consolidation however, he says he didn't have the stomach to debate the finances with the owners, given the situation with his dad etc.

I said at the time, being a football manager is all consuming and stressful so nobody's going to blame him for saying, you know what, I don't need this right now. Not the first time and not the last time he resigned from his job. Not the first time he didn't see eye to eye with the owner, confirming he stopped talking to McAnthony in his spell at Peterborough before joining us.

Of course there will be those who focus on the finances as the reason he resigned but there clearly were more pressing issues at the time.

He calls it consolidation Baz, but a top 5 budget is not consolidation, its an opportunity to finish in the play-offs, which as bfyp says we managed to do the following season.

I don’t believe at all we had a top 5 budget in league one that season. Infact I think top 14 may have been more accurate.

Too much has been said by previous managers and the way in how quickly some managers have jumped ship that I don’t believe anything the club or you have said over the past 6 years or more when it comes to budgets or ambition.

McCann overachieved with the budget he was given.

To be fair I don't care in the slightest whether you believe what I say.

But there's a big difference between you and me. Yours is just an opinion, no more than that. But mine comes from having seen the accounts, from having sat in meetings with the FD and GB to discuss and verify our position. That's then verified further by reading through the published list that the EFL produce which states exactly what each club has provided to the EFL and how that relates to declared budgets.

But I'm sure that you'll always view the club ownership as a negative, that's what you do.
'

[BillyStubbsTears]

I think he’s right in what he says,
After that first season of consolidation we needed to push on and try and get into the championship.
But for whatever reason we didn’t do that,
As SM has stated Mccann over achieved, that squad wasn’t great but was topped up with very good loan players.
We should’ve signed better players after that season but the necessary money wasn’t made available.

The squad included, before loan signings:

Coppinger
Marquis
Whiteman
Anderson
Wright
Blair
Rowe
Butler
Andrew
Mason
Marosi
May

All competent upper end L1 players. All bar Andrew availsble to Ferguson the year before, when he served up dross week in, week out.

[Glyn_Wigley]

Fergie wanted more money to spend, the club said you're getting enough to do a good job. Any other spin on that is conjecture as far as I can see.

That's not how I see it now and back then.  Many said the board were happy with league one no ambition, but on record said they otherwise.

Just look at which league we are in now !

It's all about balancing the books, yet told top 5 budget?

As I said, conjecture.

[silent majority]

I think he’s right in what he says,
After that first season of consolidation we needed to push on and try and get into the championship.
But for whatever reason we didn’t do that,
As SM has stated Mccann over achieved, that squad wasn’t great but was topped up with very good loan players.
We should’ve signed better players after that season but the necessary money wasn’t made available.

I don't think I did dickos, what I said was that Fergy underperformed relative to the budget he had and that GM managed to reflect the budget given by finishing in the play-offs.

If you remember GM went on record to say how impressed he was with the budget and that he needed very little in terms of changes or amendments to the squad. Officially, on record!! So all those saying they don't agree with the budget figures need to go back and check.

[roverstillidie91]

It's a case of telling fans what they want to know rather than what they need to know.

They aren't just going to say we have a mid table budget are they.

Then again based on the preparation for this season I've been rather left uninspired but then again I may be proved wrong.

There has been a lot of chance so we should give the board, staff and players the chance to put things into place.

[dickos1]

I think he’s right in what he says,
After that first season of consolidation we needed to push on and try and get into the championship.
But for whatever reason we didn’t do that,
As SM has stated Mccann over achieved, that squad wasn’t great but was topped up with very good loan players.
We should’ve signed better players after that season but the necessary money wasn’t made available.

I don't think I did dickos, what I said was that Fergy underperformed relative to the budget he had and that GM managed to reflect the budget given by finishing in the play-offs.

If you remember GM went on record to say how impressed he was with the budget and that he needed very little in terms of changes or amendments to the squad. Officially, on record!! So all those saying they don't agree with the budget figures need to go back and check.

Sorry mate
I thought I’d read you’d put that in this thread. I Must be cracking up.

[dickos1]

I think he’s right in what he says,
After that first season of consolidation we needed to push on and try and get into the championship.
But for whatever reason we didn’t do that,
As SM has stated Mccann over achieved, that squad wasn’t great but was topped up with very good loan players.
We should’ve signed better players after that season but the necessary money wasn’t made available.

The squad included, before loan signings:

Coppinger
Marquis
Whiteman
Anderson
Wright
Blair
Rowe
Butler
Andrew
Mason
Marosi
May

All competent upper end L1 players. All bar Andrew availsble to Ferguson the year before, when he served up dross week in, week out.

Not many of those had played top end league one at the time,
Plus that’s only 12 players
Mcann did unbelievable with that squad but he also get very lucky with injuries

[sedwardsdrfc]

I think he’s right in what he says,
After that first season of consolidation we needed to push on and try and get into the championship.
But for whatever reason we didn’t do that,
As SM has stated Mccann over achieved, that squad wasn’t great but was topped up with very good loan players.
We should’ve signed better players after that season but the necessary money wasn’t made available.

The squad included, before loan signings:

Coppinger
Marquis
Whiteman
Anderson
Wright
Blair
Rowe
Butler
Andrew
Mason
Marosi
May

All competent upper end L1 players. All bar Andrew availsble to Ferguson the year before, when he served up dross week in, week out.

Not many of those had played top end league one at the time,
Plus that’s only 12 players
Mcann did unbelievable with that squad but he also get very lucky with injuries

Squad full of what are now recognised L1 players and we had a lot of them in their best years. Add that Marquis, Whiteman, an inform Anderson, Rowe and Copps were exceptional L1 players and it's a team that should be in the play offs. Add those 5 to most L1 clubs at the time and they'd have a good case for the playoffs imo.

It's only 12 players but GM did have a summer to add to it.

[dickos1]

Rowe very rarely played under mccann, May the same,
Look at the squad fergie inherited and the one he left us with, it’s a massive contrast.
Further down the line you can look at the squad Moore inherited and the one he left us with, that’s the job that’s caused our current position

[sedwardsdrfc]

Rowe very rarely played under mccann, May the same,
Look at the squad fergie inherited and the one he left us with, it’s a massive contrast.
Further down the line you can look at the squad Moore inherited and the one he left us with, that’s the job that’s caused our current position

Agree on what your saying with all that.

Point i was making is that the squad GMc inherited was a bit better than the average L1 team and with a few signings was one that could easily have got promoted without it been too much of a surprise. Also helped that GMc is a very good manager which has to count for a lot when comparing.

GMc left us worse than when he arrived in terms of playing squad and then DM left us even worse. Wellens managed to top all that and make us even worse

[BillyStubbsTears]

Rowe very rarely played under mccann, May the same,
Look at the squad fergie inherited and the one he left us with, it’s a massive contrast.
Further down the line you can look at the squad Moore inherited and the one he left us with, that’s the job that’s caused our current position

Nobody's is questioining Ferguson's eye for a player. It's just that when he put them out on the pitch, they were often cack. As for whether players played a lot under McCann, you're moving the goalposts. You said McCann had a squad that "wasn't great". I disagree.  The key point was that the core of the squad that McCann had was the same core that Ferguson had had the year before, and massively underperformed with. And then, if we believe his article. walked away from because it wasn't good enough.

Rowe made 32 league appearances under McCann by the way.

[Fal]

There's nothing in what he says in that article that is particularly damning about his time with us. He days the club were very supportive when he could have been sacked.

He had a League One budget in League Two and yes, he got us promoted barring a poor end to the season when winning the league was in our sights.

Thrre's nothing particularly wrong with consolidation however, he says he didn't have the stomach to debate the finances with the owners, given the situation with his dad etc.

I said at the time, being a football manager is all consuming and stressful so nobody's going to blame him for saying, you know what, I don't need this right now. Not the first time and not the last time he resigned from his job. Not the first time he didn't see eye to eye with the owner, confirming he stopped talking to McAnthony in his spell at Peterborough before joining us.

Of course there will be those who focus on the finances as the reason he resigned but there clearly were more pressing issues at the time.

He calls it consolidation Baz, but a top 5 budget is not consolidation, its an opportunity to finish in the play-offs, which as bfyp says we managed to do the following season.

I don’t believe at all we had a top 5 budget in league one that season. Infact I think top 14 may have been more accurate.

Too much has been said by previous managers and the way in how quickly some managers have jumped ship that I don’t believe anything the club or you have said over the past 6 years or more when it comes to budgets or ambition.

McCann overachieved with the budget he was given.

To be fair I don't care in the slightest whether you believe what I say.

But there's a big difference between you and me. Yours is just an opinion, no more than that. But mine comes from having seen the accounts, from having sat in meetings with the FD and GB to discuss and verify our position. That's then verified further by reading through the published list that the EFL produce which states exactly what each club has provided to the EFL and how that relates to declared budgets.

But I'm sure that you'll always view the club ownership as a negative, that's what you do.
'

Ever thought you have seen and heard what they want to you hear? Of course as per yours and few others responses the club can do no wrong...no change there. Im not a negative person but theres plenty of evidence out there from managers about whats happened behind the scenes, managers jumping ship at the first opportunity. Sadly Doncaster Rovers at this current moment in time aren't an exciting prospect for any manager.

The past 2 years have been awful to support this club, the excitement has dwindled a lot and a lot of that is down to how the club is run. I will admit my optimism rose with the transfer market we have just had and im hoping long term the signings pay off but unless we go back up this season i can only see us becoming a mainstay in the division again for several years with no ambition but i hope i am wrong.

[BillyStubbsTears]

Fal.

TWO mangers have jumped ship recently. Both went to much bigger clubs, a division higher. That proves precisely zero about whether or not they had suitable budgets when they were here.

As for Ferguson, frankly, his line sounds like b*llocks. And in fact IS b*llocks, because the squad that he'd put together, with a few intelligent loan signings  ended up one slip of a goalkeeper's boot from Wembley.

[DonnyNoel]

There's nothing in what he says in that article that is particularly damning about his time with us. He days the club were very supportive when he could have been sacked.

He had a League One budget in League Two and yes, he got us promoted barring a poor end to the season when winning the league was in our sights.

Thrre's nothing particularly wrong with consolidation however, he says he didn't have the stomach to debate the finances with the owners, given the situation with his dad etc.

I said at the time, being a football manager is all consuming and stressful so nobody's going to blame him for saying, you know what, I don't need this right now. Not the first time and not the last time he resigned from his job. Not the first time he didn't see eye to eye with the owner, confirming he stopped talking to McAnthony in his spell at Peterborough before joining us.

Of course there will be those who focus on the finances as the reason he resigned but there clearly were more pressing issues at the time.

He calls it consolidation Baz, but a top 5 budget is not consolidation, its an opportunity to finish in the play-offs, which as bfyp says we managed to do the following season.

I don’t believe at all we had a top 5 budget in league one that season. Infact I think top 14 may have been more accurate.

Too much has been said by previous managers and the way in how quickly some managers have jumped ship that I don’t believe anything the club or you have said over the past 6 years or more when it comes to budgets or ambition.

McCann overachieved with the budget he was given.

To be fair I don't care in the slightest whether you believe what I say.

But there's a big difference between you and me. Yours is just an opinion, no more than that. But mine comes from having seen the accounts, from having sat in meetings with the FD and GB to discuss and verify our position. That's then verified further by reading through the published list that the EFL produce which states exactly what each club has provided to the EFL and how that relates to declared budgets.

But I'm sure that you'll always view the club ownership as a negative, that's what you do.
'

Ever thought you have seen and heard what they want to you hear? Of course as per yours and few others responses the club can do no wrong...no change there. Im not a negative person but theres plenty of evidence out there from managers about whats happened behind the scenes, managers jumping ship at the first opportunity. Sadly Doncaster Rovers at this current moment in time aren't an exciting prospect for any manager.

The past 2 years have been awful to support this club, the excitement has dwindled a lot and a lot of that is down to how the club is run. I will admit my optimism rose with the transfer market we have just had and im hoping long term the signings pay off but unless we go back up this season i can only see us becoming a mainstay in the division again for several years with no ambition but i hope i am wrong.

Without being pedantic, there's no "evidence" whatsoever, just conjecture. Plus if I was McCann's or Moore's agent I'd be having their head examined if they didn't make the moves they made. I'm not excusing the lack of progression at the board-to-manager level in recent years but realistically we're a small fry club in an average football area and for us to get back to our 2008-2011 levels it's going to take a big alignment of stars.

[no eyed deer]

Fergie wanted more money to spend, the club said you're getting enough to do a good job. Any other spin on that is conjecture as far as I can see.

That's not how I see it now and back then.  Many said the board were happy with league one no ambition, but on record said they otherwise.

Just look at which league we are in now !

It's all about balancing the books, yet told top 5 budget?

As I said, conjecture.

So what the point in this message board as we could say the same about the majority if the posts...yours included

[Chris Black come back]

I don’t see how this is a matter of debate. Ferguson was a good talent spotter, poor manager, got us relegated to the bottom tier, fluffed chance of silverware and was replaced by a guy very late in the summer who then almost got us to Wembley with the exact same players, before we were cheated in a penalty shootout.

[Sammy Chung was King]

He was never going to get the funding he was used to with us. If he believed that I think he was lying to himself.
He brought a lot of good players in but had problems getting the best from them. He managed to somehow not win a league title he should have. His comments to the press at the time were naive, almost saying it was already over. This seeped into the players and led to a complacency that couldn’t be stopped.

I think the real reason he left, was because he felt he couldn’t improve us any more, with the funding available. I’m sure his dad being I’ll was also a factor as he said. He seems to be desperate to tell everyone he hasn’t had help from his dad,he seems to be in his shadow. All the clubs he has managed and has never won a league title as manager.

[pib]

I think he’s right in what he says,
After that first season of consolidation we needed to push on and try and get into the championship.
But for whatever reason we didn’t do that,
As SM has stated Mccann over achieved, that squad wasn’t great but was topped up with very good loan players.
We should’ve signed better players after that season but the necessary money wasn’t made available.

The squad included, before loan signings:

Coppinger
Marquis
Whiteman
Anderson
Wright
Blair
Rowe
Butler
Andrew
Mason
Marosi
May

All competent upper end L1 players. All bar Andrew availsble to Ferguson the year before, when he served up dross week in, week out.

I agree that we had a decent core of players back then, but I think it’s stretching the truth a bit to say that all of those are upper end L1 players.

Blair, Mason, Marosi and May were top end L1 players? They all mostly did a good job for us, but that’s a bit of a reach if you ask me. Could add one or two others as well.

[BillyStubbsTears]

Yeah I'm overplaying Blair and May, but they were solid L1 squad members.

Marosi? I didn't rate him. But the following season he was an ever present for the L1 champions, then played 20 matches in the Championship, so what do I know?

[DonnyBazR0ver]

The question is then, if he had a decent core of a team, which McCann subsequently propelled to the play offs, why did he not think he could do the same?

Did he expect to be given more funds to go and get contracted players/targets and pay transfer fees on top of the budget?

He accepted what he had and accepted that challenge to get us back to where he started, having conceded he could have been sacked after relegation.

Was it just too much for him given the added stress of his father being in a life threatening condition?

It would be tough for anyone in that situation. He could be forgiven for not thinking straight at that time and made what he thought was the right decision for him and his family.

He didn't exactly rush back into work did he?

[Glyn_Wigley]

Fergie wanted more money to spend, the club said you're getting enough to do a good job. Any other spin on that is conjecture as far as I can see.

That's not how I see it now and back then.  Many said the board were happy with league one no ambition, but on record said they otherwise.

Just look at which league we are in now !

It's all about balancing the books, yet told top 5 budget?

As I said, conjecture.

So what the point in this message board as we could say the same about the majority if the posts...yours included

If they're like yours and based on 'beliefs' and 'feelings' rather than actual facts, then indeed.

[dickos1]

Rowe very rarely played under mccann, May the same,
Look at the squad fergie inherited and the one he left us with, it’s a massive contrast.
Further down the line you can look at the squad Moore inherited and the one he left us with, that’s the job that’s caused our current position

Nobody's is questioining Ferguson's eye for a player. It's just that when he put them out on the pitch, they were often cack. As for whether players played a lot under McCann, you're moving the goalposts. You said McCann had a squad that "wasn't great". I disagree.  The key point was that the core of the squad that McCann had was the same core that Ferguson had had the year before, and massively underperformed with. And then, if we believe his article. walked away from because it wasn't good enough.

Rowe made 32 league appearances under McCann by the way.

And that’s what I said, his recruitment was excellent but whether he got the best out of him is a different matter.

And regarding mcann, I’d definitely stand by it not being great.
It wasn’t. And he had to top it up with loan players which he did excellently