Vs 10 men

[BillyStubbsTears]

Controversial comment first. Very soft red card tonight. That was poor from the officials.

But it happened and it happens. You play the hand you're dealt.

And tonight, I thought we played superbly against 10 men. Yes, the equaliser was sloppy, but our possession and attacking game was precisely what you should do against a depleted opposition.

We probed. We were patient. We made runs wide and through the middle. We created excellent chances.

We might not have won. But if we hadn't, that wouldn't have been the end of the world. We showed an intelligence in knowing how to dominate an opposition missing a man. That could easily have been 4 or 5-1.

Compare that to Bradford on Day 1.

They were one dimensional against our 10 men. They lumped thoughtless balls into the box and tried to batter us. They never looked like finding the key and they weren't smart enough to realise that, or good enough to change tack.

Clayton and Tomlin were outstanding tonight, in intelligently probing and keeping the Stockport defence under stress. That bodes well for the season.

[RoversAlias]

You simply cannot put your hand on the throat of another player. A certain red card by the laws of the game whether he intended to do harm or not, and of course he didn't.

He wasn't enjoying having to defend against Rowe and Knoyle up to that point, perhaps it got to him.

[BillyStubbsTears]

You simply cannot put your hand on the throat of another player. A certain red card by the laws of the game whether he intended to do harm or not, and of course he didn't.

He wasn't enjoying having to defend against Rowe and Knoyle up to that point, perhaps it got to him.

It was soft. If that's a sending off offence, the game has lost its bearings.

Up to that moment, he'd been their best player. He was giving Maxwell all sorts of problems.

[RobTheRover]

You simply cannot put your hand on the throat of another player. A certain red card by the laws of the game whether he intended to do harm or not, and of course he didn't.

He wasn't enjoying having to defend against Rowe and Knoyle up to that point, perhaps it got to him.

It was soft. If that's a sending off offence, the game has lost its bearings.

Up to that moment, he'd been their best player. He was giving Maxwell all sorts of problems.

I agree its soft,  Billy but that's the current interpretation of the laws. Any player putting their hand on another players neck or face in a moment of madness is always going to risk an early bath.

Given we've now been at the sharp end and the receiving end,  I think GMS will be drumming into our players the importance of keeping 11 on the pitch.

[BillyStubbsTears]

Rob.
Agreed.

I entirely accept that's what the current interpretation says. But it's fundamentally wrong. You shouldn't be sending a player off for what their lad did.

But to put that to one side, once it had happened, I thought we gave a textbook performance in How To Play Against 10 Men.

Very, very impressive mesters stuff.

[Sammy Chung was King]

If that is a red card the game might as well pack in, it isn’t basketball .

[Jonathan]

He aimed a sly dig at Rowe’s chin. If you do that you run the risk of being sent off. Do we really need Rowe to be splattered all over the floor dripping in blood to make it a red card? It’s the action that saw him sent off and credit to Rowe for not rolling around on the floor making a meal of it.

I fully accept the punch was soft, and I’d not have complained if it was just a yellow, but if you raise your hands you know the risks. It wasn’t a ridiculous sending off, it was a ridiculous thing to do.

[Filo]

It was a red card, credit to the lino for spotting it

[Donnywolf]

Yes ... Well spotted Lino and credit TR for the "shrug" of protest rather than what others all over the Country would have done

Rules are there for a reason and their bloke fell foul of officials who saw and upheld them

Madden was another with time wasting. He booted the ball already out and a goal kick to them up the East Stand nearly to half way line. Their goalkeeper needed no time wasting help at all

The Ref went to Madden and gave him the " that's your last warning" motion. 5 minutes later Madden picked up the ball (think it was Free kick in their box) and walked up the East Stand with it before dropping it 30 yds from goal. Ref gave him a yellow ... Well done him

Are players that stupid or is it an occupational hazard ?

Finally imagine if one of our players had done what their  RBack did and got sent off that way. This board would be in uproar with half calling him "stupid" and the other half saying it was a Yellow or it was soft.

[GazLaz]

Controversial comment first. Very soft red card tonight. That was poor from the officials.

But it happened and it happens. You play the hand you're dealt.

And tonight, I thought we played superbly against 10 men. Yes, the equaliser was sloppy, but our possession and attacking game was precisely what you should do against a depleted opposition.

We probed. We were patient. We made runs wide and through the middle. We created excellent chances.

We might not have won. But if we hadn't, that wouldn't have been the end of the world. We showed an intelligence in knowing how to dominate an opposition missing a man. That could easily have been 4 or 5-1.

Compare that to Bradford on Day 1.

They were one dimensional against our 10 men. They lumped thoughtless balls into the box and tried to batter us. They never looked like finding the key and they weren't smart enough to realise that, or good enough to change tack.

Clayton and Tomlin were outstanding tonight, in intelligently probing and keeping the Stockport defence under stress. That bodes well for the season.

I agree with all of this.

We moved the ball from side to side and overloaded side areas. They allowed it to become a bit of a training exercise after they pulled it back to 1-1. Thoroughly deserved win.

[Avsuptem]

Imagine if refs allowed violent conduct and only red carded extreme examples.
'It was only a gentle head butt ref' or I only wanted to give him a slight face massage', 'his leg's not broken so what's the problem ?'
Every game would be a blood bath. Its a contact sport yes but not a game for deliberate violence of any sort.

[big fat yorkshire pudding]

It's a red card under the rules you can't raise your hands like that.  It's also equally pointless why do footballers not understand that not getting involved is the obvious answer?

I tend to agree with others, by the rules it's a red but it should be a yellow when it's not that severe.  Having said that, in real time the fans over that side certainly called for a red straight away....

We were good with the ball though and exactly what Bradford were not. What impressed me is that we clearly are being coached well, you can see the patterns of play and what we are trying to do.  We aren't far away from it properly clicking. We will be very hard to beat this year.

[Goole Rover]

Yes ... Well spotted Lino and credit TR for the "shrug" of protest rather than what others all over the Country would have done

Rules are there for a reason and their bloke fell foul of officials who saw and upheld them

Madden was another with time wasting. He booted the ball already out and a goal kick to them up the East Stand nearly to half way line. Their goalkeeper needed no time wasting help at all

The Ref went to Madden and gave him the " that's your last warning" motion. 5 minutes later Madden picked up the ball (think it was Free kick in their box) and walked up the East Stand with it before dropping it 30 yds from goal. Ref gave him a yellow ... Well done him

Are players that stupid or is it an occupational hazard ?

Finally imagine if one of our players had done what their  RBack did and got sent off that way. This board would be in uproar with half calling him "stupid" and the other half saying it was a Yellow or it was soft.

Good post John you've encapsulated the scene well.

[philsky]

As some wag said on twitter last night...

#maccatime

[Donnywolf]

Imagine if refs allowed violent conduct and only red carded extreme examples.
'It was only a gentle head butt ref' or I only wanted to give him a slight face massage', 'his leg's not broken so what's the problem ?'
Every game would be a blood bath. Its a contact sport yes but not a game for deliberate violence of any sort.

Very good point especially after the start at AFCW where the Ref seemed to award a Yellow Card to Clayton for a tackle he made after just 50 seconds


However he produced a Yellow almost 2 minutes later but only after seeing the victim needed lengthy treatment on the field

Sums up exactly what you infer. It was a foul but initially he just gave it as a free kick but then was "influenced" (by overthinking maybe) that it must have been worthy of a Card.

In fact it was still the same challenge he seemed to have let go with a Free Kick to them.


Well done the Officials last night ... A sentence I never thought would appear in any post of mine 

[BillyStubbsTears]

Fascinating how we all see different things. How on earth can anyone watch the video of that incident and say their lad punched Rowe?

I agree that it was a red card according to the interpretation of the rules today. But it's the interpretation that's wrong. By no sensible measure should a push like that be classed as "violent conduct".

[Spud]

Imagine if refs allowed violent conduct and only red carded extreme examples.
'It was only a gentle head butt ref' or I only wanted to give him a slight face massage', 'his leg's not broken so what's the problem ?'
Every game would be a blood bath. Its a contact sport yes but not a game for deliberate violence of any sort.

Very good point especially after the start at AFCW where the Ref seemed to award a Yellow Card to Clayton for a tackle he made after just 50 seconds


However he produced a Yellow almost 2 minutes later but only after seeing the victim needed lengthy treatment on the field

Sums up exactly what you infer. It was a foul but initially he just gave it as a free kick but then was "influenced" (by overthinking maybe) that it must have been worthy of a Card.

In fact it was still the same challenge he seemed to have let go with a Free Kick to them.


Well done the Officials last night ... A sentence I never thought would appear in any post of mine 

That will equate to more than any officiating awards they win in their careers, are you feeling ok Wolf?

[deebee]

Since when was a left hook to the face soft
https://www.facebook.com/bailey.vickerage.1/videos/591758465824641

[BillyStubbsTears]

Since when was a left hook to the face soft
https://www.facebook.com/bailey.vickerage.1/videos/591758465824641

Left hook?

Jeez.

Edit: Withdrawn. My mistake.
https://www.drfc-vsc.co.uk/index.php?topic=285736.msg1179981#msg1179981

[ravenrover]

For me in the West with a clear view it was more a push that turned into a slap to Rowes face credt Rowe not going down and credit to officials. Right decision in my opinion, and even if it had been our player doing it, stupidity.
As for Madden he should have been double carded once for kicking the ball away and 2nd for ignoring the ref when he called him back, several times.

[DonnyBazR0ver]

It looked like a little uppercut to me and the lino straight away gestured to his chin to say to the ref there's been a raised hands strike. I saw TR say to the lino "He punched me". Ref then came over and conferred which left him little option to get the red card out.

Yes, I think Rovers did the right thing and tried to stay patient for the most part. We have players who hold the key to opening the door and for the width of the woodwork it could have been more comfortable.

Patience is a great virtue and these lads want to send us home happy.

[belton rover]

Fascinating how we all see different things. How on earth can anyone watch the video of that incident and say their lad punched Rowe?

I agree that it was a red card according to the interpretation of the rules today. But it's the interpretation that's wrong. By no sensible measure should a push like that be classed as "violent conduct".

So it wasn’t poor from the officials, then?

[drfchound]

Yes ... Well spotted Lino and credit TR for the "shrug" of protest rather than what others all over the Country would have done

Rules are there for a reason and their bloke fell foul of officials who saw and upheld them

Madden was another with time wasting. He booted the ball already out and a goal kick to them up the East Stand nearly to half way line. Their goalkeeper needed no time wasting help at all

The Ref went to Madden and gave him the " that's your last warning" motion. 5 minutes later Madden picked up the ball (think it was Free kick in their box) and walked up the East Stand with it before dropping it 30 yds from goal. Ref gave him a yellow ... Well done him

Are players that stupid or is it an occupational hazard ?

Finally imagine if one of our players had done what their  RBack did and got sent off that way. This board would be in uproar with half calling him "stupid" and the other half saying it was a Yellow or it was soft.

Good post John you've encapsulated the scene well.

Ditto from me too.
No doubt in my mind that the sending off was justified.
You can’t do what he did without running the risk of being sent off.
The ref got it totally right.

[ditch_drfc]

I've seen plenty worse that wasn't given even a yellow. And truth be told I completely missed it in real time.

But if you accept he's deliberately hit him in the face (even if it looked a bit soft), what other option do you have than a red?

[pib]

I was a bit concerned that last night wouldn't give us any more sense of where we're at once they went down to 10 men, but actually it became a really good test for this side. Could we keep the ball on the floor, move it around quickly and break down a team that set up to stop us? The answer was yes. I thought it was a very composed performance. A bit wasteful in front of goal at times so probably should've scored more, but our general play and build-up was very encouraging.

Their goal came from one slack bit of defending just after half time, which was probably the only mistake we made in the whole game after the red card. If the game had ended 2 or 3-0 I think that would've been a fair reflection.

[Donnywolf]

Imagine if refs allowed violent conduct and only red carded extreme examples.
'It was only a gentle head butt ref' or I only wanted to give him a slight face massage', 'his leg's not broken so what's the problem ?'
Every game would be a blood bath. Its a contact sport yes but not a game for deliberate violence of any sort.

Very good point especially after the start at AFCW where the Ref seemed to award a Yellow Card to Clayton for a tackle he made after just 50 seconds


However he produced a Yellow almost 2 minutes later but only after seeing the victim needed lengthy treatment on the field

Sums up exactly what you infer. It was a foul but initially he just gave it as a free kick but then was "influenced" (by overthinking maybe) that it must have been worthy of a Card.

In fact it was still the same challenge he seemed to have let go with a Free Kick to them.


Well done the Officials last night ... A sentence I never thought would appear in any post of mine 

That will equate to more than any officiating awards they win in their careers, are you feeling ok Wolf?

I'm having a lie down

Saved my energy all day to applaud for you in the tribute then :ir was disrupted so I must have been hyper with all that unused energy

Ref was good though ... damn its still not dissipated

[Bessie Red]

I agree to a certain extent that it was a soft red card, however, as others have stated nowadays it is the risk of a red card that players should assess when raising their hands to an opposing players chest/neck area. Unfortunately for the Stockport player his risk assessment in this case went against him.
As for playing against ten men it was indeed a masterclass. Although it was only 2-1 in the end it could've realistically been 3-1, 4-1 or even 5-1. We did not get frustrated when the goals werent coming and just kept moving the ball about looking for gaps. The goal eventually came from a quick counter as I think they believed they had seen the game out and sub consciously relaxed mentally.
The thing with the team last night was that we had intelligence, experience and talent (Anderson, Rowe, Clayton, Tomlin, Agard) on the pitch who knew how to play in the scenario presented. That will hopefully give us an advantage in the coming games.

[BillyStubbsTears]

This is the footage of the red card.

https://mobile.twitter.com/JSomersetActor/status/1559621602035236864

Clear that the push with the right hand was at the top of Rowe's chest, possibly on his neck. That's what I thought the sending off was for, in which case it's as soft as you'll ever see.

But, it's possible that their lad has clipped Rowe's chin with his left elbow after the push, judging by how Rowe's head jerks back. Impossible to say if contact was actually made given how the image changes between frames, but if that what the linesman saw then fair enough.

Apparently their manager's said the ref told him the card was for an elbow.

[Jonathan]

This is the footage of the red card.

https://mobile.twitter.com/JSomersetActor/status/1559621602035236864

Clear that the push with the right hand was at the top of Rowe's chest, possibly on his neck. That's what I thought the sending off was for, in which case it's as soft as you'll ever see.

But, it's possible that their lad has clipped Rowe's chin with his left elbow after the push, judging by how Rowe's head jerks back. Impossible to say if contact was actually made given how the image changes between frames, but if that what the linesman saw then fair enough.

Apparently their manager's said the ref told him the card was for an elbow.

I think you can see from that clip why some people feel there was a punch. It’s in the way he moves his left hand - like a punch. If you do that, you run the risk of being sent off. I don’t think Rowe is someone that play acts, I think we can reasonably conclude that he was clipped but not strong enough to go down. So we’re back to where we began, do you punish the action? Or do you say ”yeah you’ve thrown a punch, but you’ve failed to concuss him or even score a knockdown so we’ll not send you off.”

Ultimately it’s soft, but it’s a good spot from the linesman. Let’s not forget that Tomlin was sent off (rightly) for acts of petulance that didn’t involve raising his hands, and he was roundly criticised for that. This lad has raised his hands and he’s got a straight red. The lesson is don’t raise your hands as it’s not within the rules, whether or not you end up breaking someone’s nose.

[Filo]

I was convinced it was an uppercut watching it live, it was obviously the follow up elbow, either way its red