The things I'm struggling with

[big fat yorkshire pudding]

I don't think there are many who think that Mcsheffrey is the man right now indeed many never have.

He's tried and still is trying. He might even have a chance to become a manager one day, but not now. Its blindingly obvious he's swimming against an ever increasing tide.

What i would like to know though is why is the club still sticking by him? What's the justification?  What signs are there he can get it right?  Yes stability is important and it's right to give someone a chance, but he's had long enough.

Where I really struggle are these points.  Tactics, what are they? What does he want to achieve?

What does the club want to be?  If it wants to be better than the last 2 years now why is it not pushing for much much better?  By that I don't mean finances, the budget and squad actually seem fine to me at this level.  But why does it appear to be acceptable to have this constant negative run through the club and horrendous performances?

Finally, why do we know bugger all about what the hierarchy thinks?  Now I know they won't be happy, they're not in it to lose clearly.  But why are they sticking by him?  And frankly whose decision is it?  I don't think that's clear to me and someone should be accountable.

Bit of a rant I guess, but I just cannot understand why all of this is acceptable and the seemingly obvious is being ignored after such good work on some things in the summer (recruitment and off field structures seem much better).

Rant over, it can only get better right?

[belton rover]

One word answer, Big: stubbornness.

[andyst79]

Good points , I'm all for giving managers a fair chance and we're not really a sacking club.  However its not the results it's the perfomances that are dire. If it wasn't for those late goals early in the season we would be well  in the shit

[Jonathan]

As rants go I feel it’s quite a rational one. Can’t disagree with much of it.

I really sympathise with McSheffrey. He’s under massive pressure and he hasn’t handled it well at times in the media of late, but no wonder with the constant abuse levelled at him. He’s a human being and it’s bang out of order.

Sadly it’s reached the point where it would be very difficult to turn the tide now, such is the scale of the vitriol aimed at him. And I agree that it’s hard to see what the plan is out there. I was confused by the set up today, and it just didn’t work. I hope and think there’s every chance he can develop a good career in coaching / management but I think we’re at the point of change now.

I just wish he could have a chance to leave with a bit more dignity, and without swathes of people rejoicing that a decent man with a young family has been sacked. The abusive nature displayed by a large section of our own fanbase is not a good look at all. It’s sad, and I wish the club could shake them off. 

[PDX_Rover]

Spot on Jonathan.

[andyst79]

People are rash on here and I doubt anyone wishes him any malice. If he'd come out fighting in that interview maybe he could have been afforded another game or 2 but he didn't so it's time to show a bit of dignity and step aside.

[sedwardsdrfc]

Waiting for a Journo to ask him “what is you plan? How do you want your team to play? “

Might have been asked but not seen it. Know he said the players aren’t good enough to play expansive football.

[Beerseller]

Even with more dignity and less rejoicing, it’s not the scale of vitriol which makes his position untenable, it’s the serial underperformance in his role and the apparent lack of any meaningful plan to address the current shortcomings. He can be the nicest man out there and we could all be very pleasant towards him but it doesn’t alter the fact that he isn’t up to the job.

[belton rover]

As rants go I feel it’s quite a rational one. Can’t disagree with much of it.

I really sympathise with McSheffrey. He’s under massive pressure and he hasn’t handled it well at times in the media of late, but no wonder with the constant abuse levelled at him. He’s a human being and it’s bang out of order.

Sadly it’s reached the point where it would be very difficult to turn the tide now, such is the scale of the vitriol aimed at him. And I agree that it’s hard to see what the plan is out there. I was confused by the set up today, and it just didn’t work. I hope and think there’s every chance he can develop a good career in coaching / management but I think we’re at the point of change now.

I just wish he could have a chance to leave with a bit more dignity, and without swathes of people rejoicing that a decent man with a young family has been sacked. The abusive nature displayed by a large section of our own fanbase is not a good look at all. It’s sad, and I wish the club could shake them off. 

I agree with much of that, Jonathan, but not really with the constant abuse bit. There will always be some ‘fans’ who will abuse a manager from the beginning (remember SOD?), but Mcsheffrey has, in my opinion, gradually turned even the most positive supporter against him. It can’t even be said that he’s a nice guy anymore - he sounds to me now that he will blame anyone and everyone except himself.
As manager, Mcsheffrey is making this team worse and worse, week on week.

[redwine]

I could put it more succinctly

What does he have to do to keep his job ?

[Campsall rover]

I think it’s got to the stage the players of are not now playing for him.
They are hearing the same voice day after day and it’s not motivating them.

There is no structure in the team, it’s so predictable.
We have some very good midfield players for this level but they are not playing as a cohesive unit. Not enough movement or inter play between them.
Far too many passes go sideways or backwards, there is no belief from the players as to what or how to break the opposition down.

[DearneValleyRover]

I don't think there are many who think that Mcsheffrey is the man right now indeed many never have.

He's tried and still is trying. He might even have a chance to become a manager one day, but not now. Its blindingly obvious he's swimming against an ever increasing tide.

What i would like to know though is why is the club still sticking by him? What's the justification?  What signs are there he can get it right?  Yes stability is important and it's right to give someone a chance, but he's had long enough.

Where I really struggle are these points.  Tactics, what are they? What does he want to achieve?

What does the club want to be?  If it wants to be better than the last 2 years now why is it not pushing for much much better?  By that I don't mean finances, the budget and squad actually seem fine to me at this level.  But why does it appear to be acceptable to have this constant negative run through the club and horrendous performances?

Finally, why do we know bugger all about what the hierarchy thinks?  Now I know they won't be happy, they're not in it to lose clearly.  But why are they sticking by him?  And frankly whose decision is it?  I don't think that's clear to me and someone should be accountable.

Bit of a rant I guess, but I just cannot understand why all of this is acceptable and the seemingly obvious is being ignored after such good work on some things in the summer (recruitment and off field structures seem much better).

Rant over, it can only get better right?

I think you have echoed my thoughts on the subject although I agree with Jonathan that there’s no room for the personal abuse

[BobG]

Perhaps money is ge reason McSheffrey is still in post? Maybe forking out a years pay to sack him is more than is available?

BobG

[sedwardsdrfc]

Perhaps money is ge reason McSheffrey is still in post? Maybe forking out a years pay to sack him is more than is available?

BobG

Tomlin has forgone his wages for the year now. That money should be available.

Although I get the electric bill will be crazy this year and hardly budgeted.

[silent majority]

Perhaps money is ge reason McSheffrey is still in post? Maybe forking out a years pay to sack him is more than is available?

BobG

It doesn’t work like that Bob, trust me, it’s not an issue.

[Retdon1]

Perhaps money is ge reason McSheffrey is still in post? Maybe forking out a years pay to sack him is more than is available?

BobG

It doesn’t work like that Bob, trust me, it’s not an issue.

Why is he still in a job, he should have been relieved of his duties by now. Keep him and they will be less than 4000 home fans there a week Tuesday

[ncRover]

That’s a good point from Jonathon. We have to keep in touch with the human side of all of this.

But with that in mind, we have to try to stop the downward spiral of this football club because more people’s livelihoods also depend on this.

I see this forum as an avenue for us to air our opinions in an honest manner but some on Twitter are just disrespectful.

[sedwardsdrfc]

I know it’s harsh to call for the sack etc but from a human point of view I think it’s kinder to put him out his misery than keep going. If we aren’t going to get better then his job is just getting harder and harder.

It’s never anything personal people should remember that in how they show dissatisfaction.

[Lesonthewest]

Waiting for a Journo to ask him “what is you plan? How do you want your team to play? “

Might have been asked but not seen it. Know he said the players aren’t good enough to play expansive football.

Exactly this, it's the two questions I would love to hear the answers to.

[Jonathan]

That’s a good point from Jonathan. We have to keep in touch with the human side of all of this.

But with that in mind, we have to try to stop the downward spiral of this football club because more people’s livelihoods also depend on this.

I see this forum as an avenue for us to air our opinions in an honest manner but some on Twitter are just disrespectful.

Exactly. I don’t feel like this forum is the root of the abuse either. But the people on Twitter sit back, bash out some really horrid tweets and feel pleased with themselves as the likes rack up for it. Meanwhile McSheffrey has to pick himself up, go home to his young family and be a dad to his young children - which is far more important than football. But it must be so draining when you get it constantly from the fans of the club you’re working for in the town you call home. I’ll probably get called a ‘snowflake’ for this, but I think it’s really sad and nobody should have to take it. When he has the audacity to highlight that social media can be draining, they’re all up in arms feeling like they’ve been personally attacked and are unable to accept it.

There’s a growing band of fans that are a a cancer in our club. They want ‘the board’ out, whereas I’d like to see those fans just clear off. Half of them don’t attend games anyway so they would be no loss. They just sit on social media stirring up hate and it’s made for a toxic atmosphere that unquestionably amplifies our on-pitch struggles and makes this even harder to get out of. The rotten atmosphere around the club is definitely a contributory factor.

If we (as I suspect we will and probably should now) change the manager, it’s vital that the supporters move forward together and get behind the new man. There’s already been lots of the structural change that people called for, and that change and evolution will be a continuing process. This includes player recruitment that most people applauded in the summer. Fans might not (and never will) agree with every appointment or acquisition, but to be rowing backwards to “sack the board” at this point shows a real lack of thought and dare I say intelligence. When the new manager does come in, people need to accept that appointment and get right behind him and the team if we are to have any chance of building on a start that isn’t exactly hopeless in terms of the return. 

[Janso]

That’s a good point from Jonathan. We have to keep in touch with the human side of all of this.

But with that in mind, we have to try to stop the downward spiral of this football club because more people’s livelihoods also depend on this.

I see this forum as an avenue for us to air our opinions in an honest manner but some on Twitter are just disrespectful.

Exactly. I don’t feel like this forum is the root of the abuse either. But the people on Twitter sit back, bash out some really horrid tweets and feel pleased with themselves as the likes rack up for it. Meanwhile McSheffrey has to pick himself up, go home to his young family and be a dad to his young children - which is far more important than football. But it must be so draining when you get it constantly from the fans of the club you’re working for in the town you call home. I’ll probably get called a ‘snowflake’ for this, but I think it’s really sad and nobody should have to take it. When he has the audacity to highlight that social media can be draining, they’re all up in arms feeling like they’ve been personally attacked and are unable to accept it.

There’s a growing band of fans that are a a cancer in our club. They want ‘the board’ out, whereas I’d like to see those fans just clear off. Half of them don’t attend games anyway so they would be no loss. They just sit on social media stirring up hate and it’s made for a toxic atmosphere that unquestionably amplifies our on-pitch struggles and makes this even harder to get out of. The rotten atmosphere around the club is definitely a contributory factor.

If we (as I suspect we will and probably should now) change the manager, it’s vital that the supporters move forward together and get behind the new man. There’s already been lots of the structural change that people called for, and that change and evolution will be a continuing process. This includes player recruitment that most people applauded in the summer. Fans might not (and never will) agree with every appointment or acquisition, but to be rowing backwards to “sack the board” at this point shows a real lack of thought and dare I say intelligence. When the new manager does come in, people need to accept that appointment and get right behind him and the team if we are to have any chance of building on a start that isn’t exactly hopeless in terms of the return. 

The toxicity at the moment is a real issue and makes games that are difficult to enjoy very much at the moment even more unenjoyable.

Someone who was sat near me yesterday said it best. If all your "supporters" are telling you you're shit and you were bought from Netto, it's not exactly going to motivate you to play for them is it? Not saynig that professional footballers should sit crying cos Jono from Edlo said he came from a budget supermarket but it hardly helps matters when confidence must be low.

[wilts rover]

The club has stood by every manager in a loosing run under this regime ever since O'Driscoll. Some of them certainly longer than they should have done. They give loyalty to an employee - which they expect/hope will be returned.

Personally I think that is why Butler, Wellans and McSheffrey were appointed, because after the way McCann and Moore left they wanted someone who would be loyal to the club.

We don't know the conversations between themselves and that manager (and now Copps too) and what the manger thinks they can do to change things around. It's when you can't answer that question that it is time to go.

I have no idea what they will do. I do know that if some people on here were running the club we would be changing managers every six weeks.

[ravenrover]

That’s a good point from Jonathan. We have to keep in touch with the human side of all of this.

But with that in mind, we have to try to stop the downward spiral of this football club because more people’s livelihoods also depend on this.

I see this forum as an avenue for us to air our opinions in an honest manner but some on Twitter are just disrespectful.

Exactly. I don’t feel like this forum is the root of the abuse either. But the people on Twitter sit back, bash out some really horrid tweets and feel pleased with themselves as the likes rack up for it. Meanwhile McSheffrey has to pick himself up, go home to his young family and be a dad to his young children - which is far more important than football. But it must be so draining when you get it constantly from the fans of the club you’re working for in the town you call home. I’ll probably get called a ‘snowflake’ for this, but I think it’s really sad and nobody should have to take it. When he has the audacity to highlight that social media can be draining, they’re all up in arms feeling like they’ve been personally attacked and are unable to accept it.

There’s a growing band of fans that are a a cancer in our club. They want ‘the board’ out, whereas I’d like to see those fans just clear off. Half of them don’t attend games anyway so they would be no loss. They just sit on social media stirring up hate and it’s made for a toxic atmosphere that unquestionably amplifies our on-pitch struggles and makes this even harder to get out of. The rotten atmosphere around the club is definitely a contributory factor.

If we (as I suspect we will and probably should now) change the manager, it’s vital that the supporters move forward together and get behind the new man. There’s already been lots of the structural change that people called for, and that change and evolution will be a continuing process. This includes player recruitment that most people applauded in the summer. Fans might not (and never will) agree with every appointment or acquisition, but to be rowing backwards to “sack the board” at this point shows a real lack of thought and dare I say intelligence. When the new manager does come in, people need to accept that appointment and get right behind him and the team if we are to have any chance of building on a start that isn’t exactly hopeless in terms of the return. 

Ia Mr Ghosh still the ringmaster for the abusers?

[Jonathan]

That’s a good point from Jonathan. We have to keep in touch with the human side of all of this.

But with that in mind, we have to try to stop the downward spiral of this football club because more people’s livelihoods also depend on this.

I see this forum as an avenue for us to air our opinions in an honest manner but some on Twitter are just disrespectful.

Exactly. I don’t feel like this forum is the root of the abuse either. But the people on Twitter sit back, bash out some really horrid tweets and feel pleased with themselves as the likes rack up for it. Meanwhile McSheffrey has to pick himself up, go home to his young family and be a dad to his young children - which is far more important than football. But it must be so draining when you get it constantly from the fans of the club you’re working for in the town you call home. I’ll probably get called a ‘snowflake’ for this, but I think it’s really sad and nobody should have to take it. When he has the audacity to highlight that social media can be draining, they’re all up in arms feeling like they’ve been personally attacked and are unable to accept it.

There’s a growing band of fans that are a a cancer in our club. They want ‘the board’ out, whereas I’d like to see those fans just clear off. Half of them don’t attend games anyway so they would be no loss. They just sit on social media stirring up hate and it’s made for a toxic atmosphere that unquestionably amplifies our on-pitch struggles and makes this even harder to get out of. The rotten atmosphere around the club is definitely a contributory factor.

If we (as I suspect we will and probably should now) change the manager, it’s vital that the supporters move forward together and get behind the new man. There’s already been lots of the structural change that people called for, and that change and evolution will be a continuing process. This includes player recruitment that most people applauded in the summer. Fans might not (and never will) agree with every appointment or acquisition, but to be rowing backwards to “sack the board” at this point shows a real lack of thought and dare I say intelligence. When the new manager does come in, people need to accept that appointment and get right behind him and the team if we are to have any chance of building on a start that isn’t exactly hopeless in terms of the return. 

Ia Mr Ghosh still the ringmaster for the abusers?

Not sure on that. I can’t see his tweets.

[drfc1951]

McSheffrey should resign to protect his mental wellbeing and that of his family.

[roversdude]

Jonathan you are one of the most level headed posters on here, could not have put that any better.
Also agree that the club has a duty of care to GMc and should probably, with his best interest at heart, relieve him of his duties

[IDM]

I guess some people must prioritise looking "hard" on social media than actually supporting the team.

Criticism is fine, abuse is not.

[tyke1962]

Rovers aren't really known as a trigger happy club who sack more managers than Liz Truss does U turns .

What I will say is that if Campsall is calling for a change then time is really up for GM .

Campsall is defiantly not a knee jerk reaction supporter .

[DonnyBazR0ver]

That’s a good point from Jonathan. We have to keep in touch with the human side of all of this.

But with that in mind, we have to try to stop the downward spiral of this football club because more people’s livelihoods also depend on this.

I see this forum as an avenue for us to air our opinions in an honest manner but some on Twitter are just disrespectful.

Exactly. I don’t feel like this forum is the root of the abuse either. But the people on Twitter sit back, bash out some really horrid tweets and feel pleased with themselves as the likes rack up for it. Meanwhile McSheffrey has to pick himself up, go home to his young family and be a dad to his young children - which is far more important than football. But it must be so draining when you get it constantly from the fans of the club you’re working for in the town you call home. I’ll probably get called a ‘snowflake’ for this, but I think it’s really sad and nobody should have to take it. When he has the audacity to highlight that social media can be draining, they’re all up in arms feeling like they’ve been personally attacked and are unable to accept it.

There’s a growing band of fans that are a a cancer in our club. They want ‘the board’ out, whereas I’d like to see those fans just clear off. Half of them don’t attend games anyway so they would be no loss. They just sit on social media stirring up hate and it’s made for a toxic atmosphere that unquestionably amplifies our on-pitch struggles and makes this even harder to get out of. The rotten atmosphere around the club is definitely a contributory factor.

If we (as I suspect we will and probably should now) change the manager, it’s vital that the supporters move forward together and get behind the new man. There’s already been lots of the structural change that people called for, and that change and evolution will be a continuing process. This includes player recruitment that most people applauded in the summer. Fans might not (and never will) agree with every appointment or acquisition, but to be rowing backwards to “sack the board” at this point shows a real lack of thought and dare I say intelligence. When the new manager does come in, people need to accept that appointment and get right behind him and the team if we are to have any chance of building on a start that isn’t exactly hopeless in terms of the return. 

I also fully agree. I refuse to get involved in any slanging match with those who keep spouting the same old conspiracy theories about Blunt and the board etc.

I must be a bad judge as I thought successive managers in Moore, Wellens and McSheffrey would be good managers for us. Yes, all to different degrees had mitigating circumstances particularly with injuries, however, I'm sure it's not the injuries that are holding GM back. The players are better than the poor team performances.

It definitely feels we have got into a losing rut, which we know is difficult to get out of.

Nobody behind the scenes at the club are going to be happy with what they're seeing. I would be shocked if Copps doesn't have a major influence with the board on GMs performance and competence so we have to trust they will make the right decisions at the right time having given GM every chance.

[steve@dcfd]

The problem I have with GMC is his tactical selection of players and not learning from poor results. I’ve stopped going to home games so may be my views don’t count. But I can’t sit there in the south stand and watch poor displays and listen to the black bank vitriol. Supporters who go to away games at the moment have my respect I couldn’t.

But tell me the BBC had us playing
343 yesterday with Molyneux playing left wing back. Carlisle played 532 and won 3 0
For me either Maxwell or Hurst should have players LWB. Biggins should have played centre midfield with Clayton and Close.
Than Molyneux or Woltman along with Miller.
As I say I didn’t go but was that the case then GMC pick the wrong players in his tactical formation.