England/World Cup

[tyke1962]

I'd also like to add that Southgate has had an easier ride than many of England managers of the past .

He's never had an hostile media against him , nothing like Robson , Venables , Taylor , Hoddle and Erickson had .

Qualifying for tournaments has never been easier either than it once was , even if he made a balls of that you still get the play off get out of jail card that didn't exist previously .

Everything today is now set up so the big nations qualify .

For balance he's managed the relationships between the England set up and the PL clubs very well and he's made the England shirt way more valuable to wear than it possibly once was under such as Erickson perhaps .

He's done some good things but for me tactically he's just not up to it and that's where it counts the most .

[wilts rover]

Qualifying for tournaments has never been easier either than it once was , even if he made a balls of that you still get the play off get out of jail card that didn't exist previously .

Everything today is now set up so the big nations qualify .

Tell that to Italy. And its actually set up now so that more smaller and emerging nations qualify.

[tyke1962]

Qualifying for tournaments has never been easier either than it once was , even if he made a balls of that you still get the play off get out of jail card that didn't exist previously .

Everything today is now set up so the big nations qualify .

Tell that to Italy. And its actually set up now so that more smaller and emerging nations qualify.

They still had another bite of the cherry on both occasions didn't they .

I remember us getting drawn with Italy under Revie in world cup qualifying and only one of us could qualify .

Qualifying from Europe wasn't easy when they were only 16 teams at the tournament now there are 32 .

Plus the fact the Soviet Union  and Yugoslavia were one nation and God knows how many that subsequent breakup has produced plus the former Czechoslovakia who were always decent .

[Glyn_Wigley]

Qualifying for tournaments has never been easier either than it once was , even if he made a balls of that you still get the play off get out of jail card that didn't exist previously .

Everything today is now set up so the big nations qualify .

Tell that to Italy. And its actually set up now so that more smaller and emerging nations qualify.

And the minnows are gradually turning into sticklebacks.

[BillyStubbsTears]

Qualifying for tournaments has never been easier either than it once was , even if he made a balls of that you still get the play off get out of jail card that didn't exist previously .

Everything today is now set up so the big nations qualify .

Tell that to Italy. And its actually set up now so that more smaller and emerging nations qualify.

They still had another bite of the cherry on both occasions didn't they .

I remember us getting drawn with Italy under Revie in world cup qualifying and only one of us could qualify .

Qualifying from Europe wasn't easy when they were only 16 teams at the tournament now there are 32 .

Plus the fact the Soviet Union  and Yugoslavia were one nation and God knows how many that subsequent breakup has produced plus the former Czechoslovakia who were always decent .

There were 13 places for European sides in this WC. There haven't been fewer since 1978, when there were 10.

But now there are 55 nations in UEFA. In 1978 there were 33.

It's actually much harder for any European side to qualify for the finals now than it has been at any point since at least when Jim Callaghan was PM and Don Revie was England manager. Arguably since before then. Strange theme to use to contextualise Southgate's record.

[tyke1962]

Qualifying for tournaments has never been easier either than it once was , even if he made a balls of that you still get the play off get out of jail card that didn't exist previously .

Everything today is now set up so the big nations qualify .

Tell that to Italy. And its actually set up now so that more smaller and emerging nations qualify.

They still had another bite of the cherry on both occasions didn't they .

I remember us getting drawn with Italy under Revie in world cup qualifying and only one of us could qualify .

Qualifying from Europe wasn't easy when they were only 16 teams at the tournament now there are 32 .

Plus the fact the Soviet Union  and Yugoslavia were one nation and God knows how many that subsequent breakup has produced plus the former Czechoslovakia who were always decent .

There were 13 places for European sides in this WC. There haven't been fewer since 1978, when there were 10.

But now there are 55 nations in UEFA. In 1978 there were 33.

It's actually much harder for any European side to qualify for the finals now than it has been at any point since at least when Jim Callaghan was PM and Don Revie was England manager. Arguably since before then. Strange theme to use to contextualise Southgate's record.

So presumably it was easier to finish above Italy and a Polish team who finished up getting third place in 1974 with one place available than it is now with half a dozen in the qualifying group most of whom are small nations and the insurance policy of a seeded play off system .

Interesting theory Billy , I wasn't having a go at Southgate per se , qualifying was easier for a number of previous England managers .

[BillyStubbsTears]

Tyke.

You said "qualifying for tournaments has never been easier."

That's just wrong. It's now harder for any European country to qualify than it had been for at least 44 years.

[Sammy Chung was King]

Southgate is amiable, a very amiable guy that wants to say and do the right things. He hasn’t got that devilment in him that separates the winners from the also rans. He didn’t really know as a player what it was like to have consistent success, and what it takes to maintain it.

 Being a winner is alien to him. He has done a good job without having the ability, to go that step further. He has done so well because of the standard of players he has, not because he has tactically won games for us.

He has done competent things without having the nous, the intelligence to put outthink his opposite number. You can’t say he’s done a crap job, the players have made him seem better than he is that’s all.

[dickos1]

I haven't watched any of the games so can't comment on how the teams have performed, but you all seem to be forgetting that Southgate has exactly the right qualities that the FA look for. He is quietly spoken, polite, deals with the media well and generally makes a good impression on people. Got absolutely nothing to do with being a good coach or manager or having the best players but not playing them. I will guess that the tram he puts out against Wales will probably include the majority of his regular 1st 11, he may bring Henderson in in midfield but I would be very surprised if against the Welsh he starts Foden, Grealish, Trent or any of his other takented attacking playets. He needs a draw end of.

A world cup semi final and the final of the Euros were despite him not because of him in my opinion .

As you say he's the right fit at the FA .

Do you think the overwhelming lack of success before Southgate was because of the managers and not despite them? Because that would mean not one of them would have done better than Southgate.

He's not the worst England manager we've had I'll say that .

My biggest issue with Southgate is in his inability to solve problems during games when things have started to go against us , I base a manager's credentials on finding solutions when it  isn't going your way .

Managers today have never had so many options open to them and certainly managers of the past didn't have that , far more options from the bench and players today are far more adaptable in playing a number of roles than they once were .

Certainly the options available to Robson , Venables or even Erickson were far more limited than today .

There was a distinct lack of tactical nous from Southgate that led to us not winning the world cup semi final and the Euro Final , in both games we scored early and were well on top .

Both teams came back at us and Southgate couldn't change the game back in our favour .

In my opinion Croatia and Italy didn't have better players than ourselves .

On Friday night the US didn't have better players to say the least , they had a better tactical plan but even then it wasn't something that couldn't have been overcome with a manager who had at least half a clue with the resources available to him .

Going back to the past our inability to win penalty shootouts has in many ways distorted the picture .

We were probably the better side against the Germans in 1990 and 1996 .

Even with 10 men we were comfortable against Argentina in 1998 and could have nicked it with the Campbell goal that was ruled out .

Robson and Venables could easily have won us tournaments .

Southgate has had us in position A twice and blew it and in my opinion he won't have us in anything like that position again .

The groups stage at major tournaments always throws up performances which are poor.
Especially in the 2nd game as you have sides that need to win playing against sides that don’t need to win but don’t want to lose.
Saying did you expect to lose to Panama, Columbia etc is nonsense..
Did you expect us to lose to Iceland, did you expect us to not qualify out of a group with Costa Rica and Uruguay in it,
The fact is the last two tournaments he’s exceeded everyone’s expectations yet he’s still constantly criticised for it.

[BillyStubbsTears]

Always, always the manager to blame. Been the same at pretty much every single tournament, my entire life.
 

[DonnyNoel]

I haven't watched any of the games so can't comment on how the teams have performed, but you all seem to be forgetting that Southgate has exactly the right qualities that the FA look for. He is quietly spoken, polite, deals with the media well and generally makes a good impression on people. Got absolutely nothing to do with being a good coach or manager or having the best players but not playing them. I will guess that the tram he puts out against Wales will probably include the majority of his regular 1st 11, he may bring Henderson in in midfield but I would be very surprised if against the Welsh he starts Foden, Grealish, Trent or any of his other takented attacking playets. He needs a draw end of.

A world cup semi final and the final of the Euros were despite him not because of him in my opinion .

As you say he's the right fit at the FA .

Do you think the overwhelming lack of success before Southgate was because of the managers and not despite them? Because that would mean not one of them would have done better than Southgate.

He's not the worst England manager we've had I'll say that .

My biggest issue with Southgate is in his inability to solve problems during games when things have started to go against us , I base a manager's credentials on finding solutions when it  isn't going your way .

Managers today have never had so many options open to them and certainly managers of the past didn't have that , far more options from the bench and players today are far more adaptable in playing a number of roles than they once were .

Certainly the options available to Robson , Venables or even Erickson were far more limited than today .

There was a distinct lack of tactical nous from Southgate that led to us not winning the world cup semi final and the Euro Final , in both games we scored early and were well on top .

Both teams came back at us and Southgate couldn't change the game back in our favour .

In my opinion Croatia and Italy didn't have better players than ourselves .

On Friday night the US didn't have better players to say the least , they had a better tactical plan but even then it wasn't something that couldn't have been overcome with a manager who had at least half a clue with the resources available to him .

Going back to the past our inability to win penalty shootouts has in many ways distorted the picture .

We were probably the better side against the Germans in 1990 and 1996 .

Even with 10 men we were comfortable against Argentina in 1998 and could have nicked it with the Campbell goal that was ruled out .

Robson and Venables could easily have won us tournaments .

Southgate has had us in position A twice and blew it and in my opinion he won't have us in anything like that position again .

Sorry those last two sentences can be taken either way and can be manipulated in my eyes to make Southgate look better.

Robson and Venables could have won us tournaments. You get luck at times in tournaments thats for sure but lets not forget the luck that went our way in the quarters in both 90 and 96. They could have but didn't. Also we went in front in 96, then conceded, then made no changes at all over 120 minutes. Basically the same crime you just levelled at Southgate.

Then you say Southgate has had us in position twice but blew it suggesting it was his fault even though he got us further than the supposed better managers so surely in your eyes should be praised for that.

For me, this is a good set of players but we've had better. I've no doubt Southgate needs to find a better balance going forwards and to improve the in game tweaks. That said, I still think our biggest achilles heel is the lack of quality in midfield that doesn't let us control games. They're special players but until we get a Modric/Kroos/Iniesta/Eriksen/Pirlo type player who just keeps it ticking alon I think we'll struggle. Italy's midfield were better than ours. We have energy and discipline but I don't think the English style of play produces those type of players.

[tyke1962]

I haven't watched any of the games so can't comment on how the teams have performed, but you all seem to be forgetting that Southgate has exactly the right qualities that the FA look for. He is quietly spoken, polite, deals with the media well and generally makes a good impression on people. Got absolutely nothing to do with being a good coach or manager or having the best players but not playing them. I will guess that the tram he puts out against Wales will probably include the majority of his regular 1st 11, he may bring Henderson in in midfield but I would be very surprised if against the Welsh he starts Foden, Grealish, Trent or any of his other takented attacking playets. He needs a draw end of.

A world cup semi final and the final of the Euros were despite him not because of him in my opinion .

As you say he's the right fit at the FA .

Do you think the overwhelming lack of success before Southgate was because of the managers and not despite them? Because that would mean not one of them would have done better than Southgate.

He's not the worst England manager we've had I'll say that .

My biggest issue with Southgate is in his inability to solve problems during games when things have started to go against us , I base a manager's credentials on finding solutions when it  isn't going your way .

Managers today have never had so many options open to them and certainly managers of the past didn't have that , far more options from the bench and players today are far more adaptable in playing a number of roles than they once were .

Certainly the options available to Robson , Venables or even Erickson were far more limited than today .

There was a distinct lack of tactical nous from Southgate that led to us not winning the world cup semi final and the Euro Final , in both games we scored early and were well on top .

Both teams came back at us and Southgate couldn't change the game back in our favour .

In my opinion Croatia and Italy didn't have better players than ourselves .

On Friday night the US didn't have better players to say the least , they had a better tactical plan but even then it wasn't something that couldn't have been overcome with a manager who had at least half a clue with the resources available to him .

Going back to the past our inability to win penalty shootouts has in many ways distorted the picture .

We were probably the better side against the Germans in 1990 and 1996 .

Even with 10 men we were comfortable against Argentina in 1998 and could have nicked it with the Campbell goal that was ruled out .

Robson and Venables could easily have won us tournaments .

Southgate has had us in position A twice and blew it and in my opinion he won't have us in anything like that position again .

Sorry those last two sentences can be taken either way and can be manipulated in my eyes to make Southgate look better.

Robson and Venables could have won us tournaments. You get luck at times in tournaments thats for sure but lets not forget the luck that went our way in the quarters in both 90 and 96. They could have but didn't. Also we went in front in 96, then conceded, then made no changes at all over 120 minutes. Basically the same crime you just levelled at Southgate.

Then you say Southgate has had us in position twice but blew it suggesting it was his fault even though he got us further than the supposed better managers so surely in your eyes should be praised for that.

For me, this is a good set of players but we've had better. I've no doubt Southgate needs to find a better balance going forwards and to improve the in game tweaks. That said, I still think our biggest achilles heel is the lack of quality in midfield that doesn't let us control games. They're special players but until we get a Modric/Kroos/Iniesta/Eriksen/Pirlo type player who just keeps it ticking alon I think we'll struggle. Italy's midfield were better than ours. We have energy and discipline but I don't think the English style of play produces those type of players.

Venables didn't make any changes in the semi final against Germany at Euro 96 because he hadn't lost control of the game .

Neither had Robson at Italia 90 , in fact in both games we finished the stronger team .

The point your missing is that Southgate despite having massively more options available to him today than his predecessors and the fact he's twice lost control of games when in a winning position at the very highest level and couldn't fix it .

He couldn't fix it on Friday night either against bang average players with a good tactical plan .

This isn't a witch hunt on my part by any means because he's done some very good things with the England set up which I've alluded to .

However tactically he's found wanting and he's way too cautious with his selections in my opinion .

[DonnyNoel]

I haven't watched any of the games so can't comment on how the teams have performed, but you all seem to be forgetting that Southgate has exactly the right qualities that the FA look for. He is quietly spoken, polite, deals with the media well and generally makes a good impression on people. Got absolutely nothing to do with being a good coach or manager or having the best players but not playing them. I will guess that the tram he puts out against Wales will probably include the majority of his regular 1st 11, he may bring Henderson in in midfield but I would be very surprised if against the Welsh he starts Foden, Grealish, Trent or any of his other takented attacking playets. He needs a draw end of.

A world cup semi final and the final of the Euros were despite him not because of him in my opinion .

As you say he's the right fit at the FA .

Do you think the overwhelming lack of success before Southgate was because of the managers and not despite them? Because that would mean not one of them would have done better than Southgate.

He's not the worst England manager we've had I'll say that .

My biggest issue with Southgate is in his inability to solve problems during games when things have started to go against us , I base a manager's credentials on finding solutions when it  isn't going your way .

Managers today have never had so many options open to them and certainly managers of the past didn't have that , far more options from the bench and players today are far more adaptable in playing a number of roles than they once were .

Certainly the options available to Robson , Venables or even Erickson were far more limited than today .

There was a distinct lack of tactical nous from Southgate that led to us not winning the world cup semi final and the Euro Final , in both games we scored early and were well on top .

Both teams came back at us and Southgate couldn't change the game back in our favour .

In my opinion Croatia and Italy didn't have better players than ourselves .

On Friday night the US didn't have better players to say the least , they had a better tactical plan but even then it wasn't something that couldn't have been overcome with a manager who had at least half a clue with the resources available to him .

Going back to the past our inability to win penalty shootouts has in many ways distorted the picture .

We were probably the better side against the Germans in 1990 and 1996 .

Even with 10 men we were comfortable against Argentina in 1998 and could have nicked it with the Campbell goal that was ruled out .

Robson and Venables could easily have won us tournaments .

Southgate has had us in position A twice and blew it and in my opinion he won't have us in anything like that position again .

Sorry those last two sentences can be taken either way and can be manipulated in my eyes to make Southgate look better.

Robson and Venables could have won us tournaments. You get luck at times in tournaments thats for sure but lets not forget the luck that went our way in the quarters in both 90 and 96. They could have but didn't. Also we went in front in 96, then conceded, then made no changes at all over 120 minutes. Basically the same crime you just levelled at Southgate.

Then you say Southgate has had us in position twice but blew it suggesting it was his fault even though he got us further than the supposed better managers so surely in your eyes should be praised for that.

For me, this is a good set of players but we've had better. I've no doubt Southgate needs to find a better balance going forwards and to improve the in game tweaks. That said, I still think our biggest achilles heel is the lack of quality in midfield that doesn't let us control games. They're special players but until we get a Modric/Kroos/Iniesta/Eriksen/Pirlo type player who just keeps it ticking alon I think we'll struggle. Italy's midfield were better than ours. We have energy and discipline but I don't think the English style of play produces those type of players.

Venables didn't make any changes in the semi final against Germany at Euro 96 because he hadn't lost control of the game .

Neither had Robson at Italia 90 , in fact in both games we finished the stronger team .

The point your missing is that Southgate despite having massively more options available to him today than his predecessors and the fact he's twice lost control of games when in a winning position at the very highest level and couldn't fix it .

He couldn't fix it on Friday night either against bang average players with a good tactical plan .

This isn't a witch hunt on my part by any means because he's done some very good things with the England set up which I've alluded to .

However tactically he's found wanting and he's way too cautious with his selections in my opinion .

I haven't missed that point, I've acknowledged that he needs to make better in game changes but there's still arguments around Venables making changes in the 96 game, not least to have more penalty taking options on the pitch. Managers make changes weekly even though they're in the ascendency in games.

[Chris the Rover]

Southgate reminds me of Gary McSheffrey. A nice bloke, but scared to death to pick a team to win, rather than avoid losing, football matches. If England don’t make the semis at the very least I suspect he will be gone after this tournament.

[Draytonian III]

Alf Ramsey got England to a World Cup final, which they won
Gareth Southgate got England to a Euros final which they lost
All other England managers have never reached a final to either of the two major tournaments

[phil old leake]

Chris I think you’re maybe right.  Any team in that competition would bite your hand off for Foden. This reminds me of Glen Hoddle. 

[BillyStubbsTears]

Southgate reminds me of Gary McSheffrey. A nice bloke, but scared to death to pick a team to win, rather than avoid losing, football matches. If England don’t make the semis at the very least I suspect he will be gone after this tournament.

If England come runner up in the group, the road to the final probably means they face:

2nd Round: Netherlands
QF: Argentina/Poland/Denmark
SF: Spain/Brazil


If England win the group, the path probably is:

2nd Round: Ecuador
QF: France
SF: Morocco/Croatia/Belgium/Portugal

Either way, to get to the later stages, there's some tough opponents, regardless of early form. There's nothing like the easy path England have had in the previous two tournaments.

Being realistic, I don't think either route has England odds-on to make the semi-finals. Is say if England DID make the semis, it would be a very good outcome. 

[Donnybax]

I think our players are better than Southgate, especially our attacking players. Brighton and Southampton have recently lost their managers. Both established premier league clubs who’d be happy to finish in the top half and no more. If they’d appointed Southgate I think their fans would’ve been very disappointed.

[grayx]

I’m hoping to see a few changes to the starting line up against Wales. There were quite a few players blowing out their arses against USA , including Kane, that need to be rested.
There’s no point taking a squad of 25 players if you’ve got no intention of using them.
Like most others i’m totally baffled why Southgates refusing to play Foden unless somethings happened in the camp. Hasn’t Foden got previous for misbehaving in the England squad?

[Glyn_Wigley]

He breached Covid rules with Greenwood, that's all I can remember Foden having done whilst with England.

[idler]

Didn’t they both invite girls back to their room as well?
Foden apologised and knuckled down, whereas Greenwood seems to have gone overboard.

[DonnyBazR0ver]

Well, that's a new type of handball been given against Uruguay. Totally accidental hitting his hand as he went down but I guess the ref had to consider whether Fernández would have been through on goal.

Tough call but what do you think? Is it really any different to a player being struck on the arm from very close range?

[Goole Rover]

I said immediately after the watching the replay “no penalty” as no doubt did everyone who’s kicked a ball. The standard of referring at this competition is abysmal.

[Hounslowrover]

You know when the ref goes to watch the VAR he’s going to change his mind. Poor decision, when falling backwards surely you put down an arm naturally to break your fall.

[DonnyNoel]

Dull first half. Of GS's changes Henderson has done well, decent tempo about him despite not being our best on the ball. Lots of joy down the left but no final ball. Rashford is infuriating at times, comes off the bench to influence a game but a bit ht and miss in this one - Grealish could get some joy down there.

[DonnyNoel]

Never doubted Rashford

 

[DonnyNoel]

And in no way is this a dull game.

Also, whilst I'm on the subject, Rovers will never win the Champions League.

[Padge_DRFC]

Rashford has been poor on the ball tonight so has Henderson.

Foden needs to play every game and played central.

Press has been good.

Wales dreadful

[DonnyNoel]

Never doubted Rashford

 

 

[redwine]

And in no way is this a dull game.

Also, whilst I'm on the subject, Rovers will never win the Champions League.

Call yourself a supporter