0 Members and 3 Guests are viewing this topic.
Qualifying for tournaments has never been easier either than it once was , even if he made a balls of that you still get the play off get out of jail card that didn't exist previously .Everything today is now set up so the big nations qualify .
Quote from: tyke1962 on November 27, 2022, 12:04:12 pmQualifying for tournaments has never been easier either than it once was , even if he made a balls of that you still get the play off get out of jail card that didn't exist previously .Everything today is now set up so the big nations qualify .Tell that to Italy. And its actually set up now so that more smaller and emerging nations qualify.
Quote from: wilts rover on November 27, 2022, 12:53:11 pmQuote from: tyke1962 on November 27, 2022, 12:04:12 pmQualifying for tournaments has never been easier either than it once was , even if he made a balls of that you still get the play off get out of jail card that didn't exist previously .Everything today is now set up so the big nations qualify .Tell that to Italy. And its actually set up now so that more smaller and emerging nations qualify.They still had another bite of the cherry on both occasions didn't they .I remember us getting drawn with Italy under Revie in world cup qualifying and only one of us could qualify .Qualifying from Europe wasn't easy when they were only 16 teams at the tournament now there are 32 .Plus the fact the Soviet Union and Yugoslavia were one nation and God knows how many that subsequent breakup has produced plus the former Czechoslovakia who were always decent .
Quote from: tyke1962 on November 27, 2022, 01:06:39 pmQuote from: wilts rover on November 27, 2022, 12:53:11 pmQuote from: tyke1962 on November 27, 2022, 12:04:12 pmQualifying for tournaments has never been easier either than it once was , even if he made a balls of that you still get the play off get out of jail card that didn't exist previously .Everything today is now set up so the big nations qualify .Tell that to Italy. And its actually set up now so that more smaller and emerging nations qualify.They still had another bite of the cherry on both occasions didn't they .I remember us getting drawn with Italy under Revie in world cup qualifying and only one of us could qualify .Qualifying from Europe wasn't easy when they were only 16 teams at the tournament now there are 32 .Plus the fact the Soviet Union and Yugoslavia were one nation and God knows how many that subsequent breakup has produced plus the former Czechoslovakia who were always decent .There were 13 places for European sides in this WC. There haven't been fewer since 1978, when there were 10.But now there are 55 nations in UEFA. In 1978 there were 33.It's actually much harder for any European side to qualify for the finals now than it has been at any point since at least when Jim Callaghan was PM and Don Revie was England manager. Arguably since before then. Strange theme to use to contextualise Southgate's record.
Quote from: Glyn_Wigley on November 27, 2022, 09:55:25 amQuote from: tyke1962 on November 26, 2022, 11:55:15 amQuote from: ravenrover on November 26, 2022, 11:52:12 amI haven't watched any of the games so can't comment on how the teams have performed, but you all seem to be forgetting that Southgate has exactly the right qualities that the FA look for. He is quietly spoken, polite, deals with the media well and generally makes a good impression on people. Got absolutely nothing to do with being a good coach or manager or having the best players but not playing them. I will guess that the tram he puts out against Wales will probably include the majority of his regular 1st 11, he may bring Henderson in in midfield but I would be very surprised if against the Welsh he starts Foden, Grealish, Trent or any of his other takented attacking playets. He needs a draw end of.A world cup semi final and the final of the Euros were despite him not because of him in my opinion .As you say he's the right fit at the FA .Do you think the overwhelming lack of success before Southgate was because of the managers and not despite them? Because that would mean not one of them would have done better than Southgate.He's not the worst England manager we've had I'll say that .My biggest issue with Southgate is in his inability to solve problems during games when things have started to go against us , I base a manager's credentials on finding solutions when it isn't going your way .Managers today have never had so many options open to them and certainly managers of the past didn't have that , far more options from the bench and players today are far more adaptable in playing a number of roles than they once were . Certainly the options available to Robson , Venables or even Erickson were far more limited than today .There was a distinct lack of tactical nous from Southgate that led to us not winning the world cup semi final and the Euro Final , in both games we scored early and were well on top .Both teams came back at us and Southgate couldn't change the game back in our favour .In my opinion Croatia and Italy didn't have better players than ourselves .On Friday night the US didn't have better players to say the least , they had a better tactical plan but even then it wasn't something that couldn't have been overcome with a manager who had at least half a clue with the resources available to him .Going back to the past our inability to win penalty shootouts has in many ways distorted the picture .We were probably the better side against the Germans in 1990 and 1996 .Even with 10 men we were comfortable against Argentina in 1998 and could have nicked it with the Campbell goal that was ruled out .Robson and Venables could easily have won us tournaments .Southgate has had us in position A twice and blew it and in my opinion he won't have us in anything like that position again .
Quote from: tyke1962 on November 26, 2022, 11:55:15 amQuote from: ravenrover on November 26, 2022, 11:52:12 amI haven't watched any of the games so can't comment on how the teams have performed, but you all seem to be forgetting that Southgate has exactly the right qualities that the FA look for. He is quietly spoken, polite, deals with the media well and generally makes a good impression on people. Got absolutely nothing to do with being a good coach or manager or having the best players but not playing them. I will guess that the tram he puts out against Wales will probably include the majority of his regular 1st 11, he may bring Henderson in in midfield but I would be very surprised if against the Welsh he starts Foden, Grealish, Trent or any of his other takented attacking playets. He needs a draw end of.A world cup semi final and the final of the Euros were despite him not because of him in my opinion .As you say he's the right fit at the FA .Do you think the overwhelming lack of success before Southgate was because of the managers and not despite them? Because that would mean not one of them would have done better than Southgate.
Quote from: ravenrover on November 26, 2022, 11:52:12 amI haven't watched any of the games so can't comment on how the teams have performed, but you all seem to be forgetting that Southgate has exactly the right qualities that the FA look for. He is quietly spoken, polite, deals with the media well and generally makes a good impression on people. Got absolutely nothing to do with being a good coach or manager or having the best players but not playing them. I will guess that the tram he puts out against Wales will probably include the majority of his regular 1st 11, he may bring Henderson in in midfield but I would be very surprised if against the Welsh he starts Foden, Grealish, Trent or any of his other takented attacking playets. He needs a draw end of.A world cup semi final and the final of the Euros were despite him not because of him in my opinion .As you say he's the right fit at the FA .
I haven't watched any of the games so can't comment on how the teams have performed, but you all seem to be forgetting that Southgate has exactly the right qualities that the FA look for. He is quietly spoken, polite, deals with the media well and generally makes a good impression on people. Got absolutely nothing to do with being a good coach or manager or having the best players but not playing them. I will guess that the tram he puts out against Wales will probably include the majority of his regular 1st 11, he may bring Henderson in in midfield but I would be very surprised if against the Welsh he starts Foden, Grealish, Trent or any of his other takented attacking playets. He needs a draw end of.
Quote from: tyke1962 on November 27, 2022, 11:33:48 amQuote from: Glyn_Wigley on November 27, 2022, 09:55:25 amQuote from: tyke1962 on November 26, 2022, 11:55:15 amQuote from: ravenrover on November 26, 2022, 11:52:12 amI haven't watched any of the games so can't comment on how the teams have performed, but you all seem to be forgetting that Southgate has exactly the right qualities that the FA look for. He is quietly spoken, polite, deals with the media well and generally makes a good impression on people. Got absolutely nothing to do with being a good coach or manager or having the best players but not playing them. I will guess that the tram he puts out against Wales will probably include the majority of his regular 1st 11, he may bring Henderson in in midfield but I would be very surprised if against the Welsh he starts Foden, Grealish, Trent or any of his other takented attacking playets. He needs a draw end of.A world cup semi final and the final of the Euros were despite him not because of him in my opinion .As you say he's the right fit at the FA .Do you think the overwhelming lack of success before Southgate was because of the managers and not despite them? Because that would mean not one of them would have done better than Southgate.He's not the worst England manager we've had I'll say that .My biggest issue with Southgate is in his inability to solve problems during games when things have started to go against us , I base a manager's credentials on finding solutions when it isn't going your way .Managers today have never had so many options open to them and certainly managers of the past didn't have that , far more options from the bench and players today are far more adaptable in playing a number of roles than they once were . Certainly the options available to Robson , Venables or even Erickson were far more limited than today .There was a distinct lack of tactical nous from Southgate that led to us not winning the world cup semi final and the Euro Final , in both games we scored early and were well on top .Both teams came back at us and Southgate couldn't change the game back in our favour .In my opinion Croatia and Italy didn't have better players than ourselves .On Friday night the US didn't have better players to say the least , they had a better tactical plan but even then it wasn't something that couldn't have been overcome with a manager who had at least half a clue with the resources available to him .Going back to the past our inability to win penalty shootouts has in many ways distorted the picture .We were probably the better side against the Germans in 1990 and 1996 .Even with 10 men we were comfortable against Argentina in 1998 and could have nicked it with the Campbell goal that was ruled out .Robson and Venables could easily have won us tournaments .Southgate has had us in position A twice and blew it and in my opinion he won't have us in anything like that position again .Sorry those last two sentences can be taken either way and can be manipulated in my eyes to make Southgate look better.Robson and Venables could have won us tournaments. You get luck at times in tournaments thats for sure but lets not forget the luck that went our way in the quarters in both 90 and 96. They could have but didn't. Also we went in front in 96, then conceded, then made no changes at all over 120 minutes. Basically the same crime you just levelled at Southgate.Then you say Southgate has had us in position twice but blew it suggesting it was his fault even though he got us further than the supposed better managers so surely in your eyes should be praised for that.For me, this is a good set of players but we've had better. I've no doubt Southgate needs to find a better balance going forwards and to improve the in game tweaks. That said, I still think our biggest achilles heel is the lack of quality in midfield that doesn't let us control games. They're special players but until we get a Modric/Kroos/Iniesta/Eriksen/Pirlo type player who just keeps it ticking alon I think we'll struggle. Italy's midfield were better than ours. We have energy and discipline but I don't think the English style of play produces those type of players.
Quote from: DonnyNoel on November 27, 2022, 03:09:16 pmQuote from: tyke1962 on November 27, 2022, 11:33:48 amQuote from: Glyn_Wigley on November 27, 2022, 09:55:25 amQuote from: tyke1962 on November 26, 2022, 11:55:15 amQuote from: ravenrover on November 26, 2022, 11:52:12 amI haven't watched any of the games so can't comment on how the teams have performed, but you all seem to be forgetting that Southgate has exactly the right qualities that the FA look for. He is quietly spoken, polite, deals with the media well and generally makes a good impression on people. Got absolutely nothing to do with being a good coach or manager or having the best players but not playing them. I will guess that the tram he puts out against Wales will probably include the majority of his regular 1st 11, he may bring Henderson in in midfield but I would be very surprised if against the Welsh he starts Foden, Grealish, Trent or any of his other takented attacking playets. He needs a draw end of.A world cup semi final and the final of the Euros were despite him not because of him in my opinion .As you say he's the right fit at the FA .Do you think the overwhelming lack of success before Southgate was because of the managers and not despite them? Because that would mean not one of them would have done better than Southgate.He's not the worst England manager we've had I'll say that .My biggest issue with Southgate is in his inability to solve problems during games when things have started to go against us , I base a manager's credentials on finding solutions when it isn't going your way .Managers today have never had so many options open to them and certainly managers of the past didn't have that , far more options from the bench and players today are far more adaptable in playing a number of roles than they once were . Certainly the options available to Robson , Venables or even Erickson were far more limited than today .There was a distinct lack of tactical nous from Southgate that led to us not winning the world cup semi final and the Euro Final , in both games we scored early and were well on top .Both teams came back at us and Southgate couldn't change the game back in our favour .In my opinion Croatia and Italy didn't have better players than ourselves .On Friday night the US didn't have better players to say the least , they had a better tactical plan but even then it wasn't something that couldn't have been overcome with a manager who had at least half a clue with the resources available to him .Going back to the past our inability to win penalty shootouts has in many ways distorted the picture .We were probably the better side against the Germans in 1990 and 1996 .Even with 10 men we were comfortable against Argentina in 1998 and could have nicked it with the Campbell goal that was ruled out .Robson and Venables could easily have won us tournaments .Southgate has had us in position A twice and blew it and in my opinion he won't have us in anything like that position again .Sorry those last two sentences can be taken either way and can be manipulated in my eyes to make Southgate look better.Robson and Venables could have won us tournaments. You get luck at times in tournaments thats for sure but lets not forget the luck that went our way in the quarters in both 90 and 96. They could have but didn't. Also we went in front in 96, then conceded, then made no changes at all over 120 minutes. Basically the same crime you just levelled at Southgate.Then you say Southgate has had us in position twice but blew it suggesting it was his fault even though he got us further than the supposed better managers so surely in your eyes should be praised for that.For me, this is a good set of players but we've had better. I've no doubt Southgate needs to find a better balance going forwards and to improve the in game tweaks. That said, I still think our biggest achilles heel is the lack of quality in midfield that doesn't let us control games. They're special players but until we get a Modric/Kroos/Iniesta/Eriksen/Pirlo type player who just keeps it ticking alon I think we'll struggle. Italy's midfield were better than ours. We have energy and discipline but I don't think the English style of play produces those type of players.Venables didn't make any changes in the semi final against Germany at Euro 96 because he hadn't lost control of the game .Neither had Robson at Italia 90 , in fact in both games we finished the stronger team .The point your missing is that Southgate despite having massively more options available to him today than his predecessors and the fact he's twice lost control of games when in a winning position at the very highest level and couldn't fix it .He couldn't fix it on Friday night either against bang average players with a good tactical plan .This isn't a witch hunt on my part by any means because he's done some very good things with the England set up which I've alluded to .However tactically he's found wanting and he's way too cautious with his selections in my opinion .
Southgate reminds me of Gary McSheffrey. A nice bloke, but scared to death to pick a team to win, rather than avoid losing, football matches. If England don’t make the semis at the very least I suspect he will be gone after this tournament.
Never doubted Rashford
And in no way is this a dull game.Also, whilst I'm on the subject, Rovers will never win the Champions League.