Are industrial strikes losing the Labour Party votes

[BillyStubbsTears]

The Tory party wants a smaller public sector.

Always has. Always will. It's their guiding principle.

Trouble for them is that the vast majority of the British people don't want fewer nurses or coppers or teachers.

So the Tories do it by stealth. They are deliberately choosing to screw down public sector pay over both the long term, through Austerity, and now, very aggressively through massively below-inflation pay rises.

The effect of this will be fewer well qualified, ambitious people going into or staying in the public sector.

That's the unspoken purpose of these policies.

[big fat yorkshire pudding]

All well and good but is a 19% pay increase either valid or right for nurses?

[ravenrover]

I think the 19% is a little spurious, it is up to 19%, with the higher rates for the lower paid staff not across the board. But hey let's just give a round of applause on Saturday at 3.00 that should do

[MachoMadness]

Worth pointing out that the pay recommendation the government is clinging to is from last February. We're in a dramatically different situation now.

Think they will have a harder time trying to paint the nurses as militant, which is the only argument they have.

[BillyStubbsTears]

The 19% claim comes from how much nurses real pay has fallen under the Tories.

19% reduction in pay!

No-one believes they will get that in one go. It's a negotiating position.

In Scotland, nurses settled for something around 8%.

[selby]

  It suits the Tories for them to be on strike and with the other unions take the blame for trashing the economy when it needs to be recovering.
  It also put's the pressure and limelight on the Labour Party who for the first time in a couple of years need to make a policy decision of what they back and who on a topic they cannot win on.
  Since the miners strike all governments have known if they take the long run public sympathy will reduce over time, and especially when it starts to affect the public itself, and with any public service that is eventually forced to happen.
  In this case the main aim will be to cast as much bad publicity and blame on the Labour Party, and the Tories will not mind a bad winter and public services taking the majority of the blame, and the Labour Party between a rock and a hard place.
  The one point that is better than the miners strike is that it will affect the south of England with the most population worse than in this area for once, with regard to travel, health and their big population centres, and power for heating and lighting.

[tyke1962]

The company who I work for have offered us a pay rise that equates to 11.1% which is exactly last month's inflation level .

Now what's different is that they have offered a percentage pay rise and a cost of living lump sum payment to make that figure up to 11.1% .

This obviously protects them from offering the 11.1% as a pay increase per se which would be for the lifetime of our employment but it still factors in the cost of living crisis for its employees at least for the next 12 months .

A win - win for employer and employee in my opinion .

Possibly something that could be looked at by those sectors and the unions currently taking industrial action .

[wilts rover]

  As a report says that the lead of the Labour Party has been cut from 30 points to 11 points in a survey.
  What now stabber?

Dunno. What do you reckon Selby?

Westminster Voting Intention:

LAB: 45% (+3)
CON: 29% (-2)
LDM: 8% (-2)
RFM: 6% (+1)
SNP: 3% (-1)
GRN: 3% (=)

Via @Savanta_UK 9-11 Dec.
Changes w/ 2-4 Dec.

https://twitter.com/ElectionMapsUK/status/1603450217252241409

[selby]

 Take no notice of polls

[BillyStubbsTears]

Assuming the polls today tell us what will happen in 2024 is foolish.

Ignoring them altogether is way more foolish.

Labour are currently 17% ahead on average in the polls. They've been 15-30% ahead ever since the Kwasikwame budget.

No guarantee Labour will win in 2024 of course. But in my lifetime, no ruling party has been this far behind for this long, this close to an election, and not been battered when the election came.

Nearest exception was the Tories in 1992. They were well behind 2 years out, but the very worst it got was 17% deficit and even that only lasted very briefly. Today that is the BEST it's been for them in nearly 3 months. Plus of course, in 1990, the Tories had a trump card. They could get rid of Thatcher and replace her with someone not remotely as detested in the country. This time, the Tories have already played that one. Twice.

[Bentley Bullet]

Another comparison between now and 1992 is Labour's weak party leaders.

[ncRover]

I can see some right-wing tories going to Reform party but I can’t see any centrist Labour folk going to Lib Dems.

[wilts rover]

Who would make the best PM?

Keir Starmer: 32% (+3)
Rishi Sunak: 24% (-)

Not sure / refused: 44% (-3)

Via @YouGov, 14-15 Dec (+/- since 6-7 Dec)

'Labour's weak party leaders'. Doesn't say much for Sunak then.

[roverstillidie91]

The company who I work for have offered us a pay rise that equates to 11.1% which is exactly last month's inflation level .

Now what's different is that they have offered a percentage pay rise and a cost of living lump sum payment to make that figure up to 11.1% .

This obviously protects them from offering the 11.1% as a pay increase per se which would be for the lifetime of our employment but it still factors in the cost of living crisis for its employees at least for the next 12 months .

A win - win for employer and employee in my opinion .

Possibly something that could be looked at by those sectors and the unions currently taking industrial action .

I work on the railway and as part of the RMT I have seen first hand how the public sector workers are treated and that each individual deserves a pay rise as people in my industry I see work really hard and should be rewarded for their efforts especially during Covid.

However and what is apparent when you look on the publications for double down news etc is that the Government can afford to give tax breaks for non-dom status, give out contracts for PPE during Covid and Test and Trace to the tune of billions of pounds however they can't afford to give workers a pay rise.

Here are the links to tell you exactly what is happening in this country, you just don't realise it and it affects everyone.

https://www.doubledown.news/

https://leftfootforward.org/?doing_wp_cron=1671347277.2530579566955566406250

https://wesayenough.co.uk/

[SydneyRover]

Don't use your car
Don't go running
Don't play sport
Don't get drunk
Don't read the effin' sun ............... or the effin' mail

[albie]

Mick Lynch on why trade unions are essential to the protection of hard won benefits for working people:
https://youtu.be/icFkbb_cOYA

Ask yourself who stands against the actions of the TU, and what they stand to gain from doing so!

[SydneyRover]

Does anyone actually have to listen to ML to understand that Albie? most working people have access to trade unions or 'professional' associations as some prefer to call them, most working people owe there standard of living to those that went before and sacrificed their freedom and sometimes their lives in the process. The struggle continues and will always continue as the hard won gains of yesterday and today are easily be lost when personal gain precedes that of the majority.

[ncRover]

Does anyone actually have to listen to ML to understand that Albie? most working people have access to trade unions or 'professional' associations as some prefer to call them, most working people owe there standard of living to those that went before and sacrificed their freedom and sometimes their lives in the process. The struggle continues and will always continue as the hard won gains of yesterday and today are easily be lost when personal gain precedes that of the majority.

What do you mean by “personal gain” here?

[SydneyRover]

Does anyone actually have to listen to ML to understand that Albie? most working people have access to trade unions or 'professional' associations as some prefer to call them, most working people owe there standard of living to those that went before and sacrificed their freedom and sometimes their lives in the process. The struggle continues and will always continue as the hard won gains of yesterday and today are easily be lost when personal gain precedes that of the majority.

What do you mean by “personal gain” here?

A situation where a person receives benefit of wages growth better conditions etc but refuses to join an available union and or vote for a party that supports better outcomes for working people, the majority.

Think of it as a society that pays for the maintenance and constant regeneration of what was built and paid for by previous generations, NHS, roads, police, services, transport etc. All this helps to maintain a cohesive society where people should be able to have a roof over theirs heads, eat, work if they are able and be helped when times are tough.

There is another way it's called America and the user pays.

[wilts rover]

Rowan Williams in the Guardian

[SydneyRover]

When you look at recent leaders around the world is it better place with such as trump, bolsanaro, putin, johnson, truss ..........