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Quote from: BobG on January 03, 2023, 10:51:04 pmQuote from: drfchound on January 03, 2023, 03:58:05 pmQuote from: BobG on January 03, 2023, 10:02:59 amUpon which income is based and corporation tax paid. Any shenanigans with the official attendance figures would be a very dangerous game. Both HMRC and those who care about stopping money laundering would be hugely interested....BobGBob, i think that if the club had been trying to lower any tax they might be liable for then they would be showing a lower attendance than the declared numbers attending so i don't think your point is relevant this time.I think you've missed the difference between two separate points Hound. Not to worry.BobGIs it not the case that Bramall subsidises the club? And do we actually get to see the complete accounts? I get the impression that they don’t make any profit and that there will be losses brought forward to offset any future profits (if any are likely). So no tax would be payable would it?
Quote from: drfchound on January 03, 2023, 03:58:05 pmQuote from: BobG on January 03, 2023, 10:02:59 amUpon which income is based and corporation tax paid. Any shenanigans with the official attendance figures would be a very dangerous game. Both HMRC and those who care about stopping money laundering would be hugely interested....BobGBob, i think that if the club had been trying to lower any tax they might be liable for then they would be showing a lower attendance than the declared numbers attending so i don't think your point is relevant this time.I think you've missed the difference between two separate points Hound. Not to worry.BobG
Quote from: BobG on January 03, 2023, 10:02:59 amUpon which income is based and corporation tax paid. Any shenanigans with the official attendance figures would be a very dangerous game. Both HMRC and those who care about stopping money laundering would be hugely interested....BobGBob, i think that if the club had been trying to lower any tax they might be liable for then they would be showing a lower attendance than the declared numbers attending so i don't think your point is relevant this time.
Upon which income is based and corporation tax paid. Any shenanigans with the official attendance figures would be a very dangerous game. Both HMRC and those who care about stopping money laundering would be hugely interested....BobG
Quote from: since-1969 on December 29, 2022, 09:54:44 pmIs L2 a better fit for the club with lower wages and still reasonable crowds still in attendance ? I’m not sure how many times I have to answer this very question on this forum, and I’m sure I’ve done this on at least 8/9 occasions, but the answer is no.The reduction in player wages and lower ticket prices and attendance does not in anyway compensate for the loss in solidarity payments and TV revenue. We’re better off in lg1.
Is L2 a better fit for the club with lower wages and still reasonable crowds still in attendance ?
A huge part of our recent downturn can be traced back to DM’s reliance on loans and leaving with no squad in place. Granted it could be argued that maybe he shouldn’t have been allowed to do this but then there would have been cries of interference from above
Quote from: ForsolongaRover on January 03, 2023, 11:40:54 pmQuote from: BobG on January 03, 2023, 10:51:04 pmQuote from: drfchound on January 03, 2023, 03:58:05 pmQuote from: BobG on January 03, 2023, 10:02:59 amUpon which income is based and corporation tax paid. Any shenanigans with the official attendance figures would be a very dangerous game. Both HMRC and those who care about stopping money laundering would be hugely interested....BobGBob, i think that if the club had been trying to lower any tax they might be liable for then they would be showing a lower attendance than the declared numbers attending so i don't think your point is relevant this time.I think you've missed the difference between two separate points Hound. Not to worry.BobGIs it not the case that Bramall subsidises the club? And do we actually get to see the complete accounts? I get the impression that they don’t make any profit and that there will be losses brought forward to offset any future profits (if any are likely). So no tax would be payable would it? We’re not a loss making club anymore, therefore no subsidy is required.
Quote from: BobG on January 03, 2023, 10:51:04 pmQuote from: drfchound on January 03, 2023, 03:58:05 pmQuote from: BobG on January 03, 2023, 10:02:59 amUpon which income is based and corporation tax paid. Any shenanigans with the official attendance figures would be a very dangerous game. Both HMRC and those who care about stopping money laundering would be hugely interested....BobGBob, i think that if the club had been trying to lower any tax they might be liable for then they would be showing a lower attendance than the declared numbers attending so i don't think your point is relevant this time.I think you've missed the difference between two separate points Hound. Not to worry.BobGIs it not the case that Bramall subsidises the club? And do we actually get to see the complete accounts? I get the impression that they don’t make any profit and that there will be losses brought forward to offset any future profits (if any are likely). So no tax would be payable would it?
Quote from: drfchound on January 03, 2023, 03:58:05 pmQuote from: BobG on January 03, 2023, 10:02:59 amUpon which income is based and corporation tax paid. Any shenanigans with the official attendance figures would be a very dangerous game. Both HMRC and those who care about stopping money laundering would be hugely interested....BobGBob, i think that if the club had been trying to lower any tax they might be liable for then they would be showing a lower attendance than the declared numbers attending so i don't think your point is relevant this time.I think you've missed the difference between two separate points Hound. Not to worry.BobG
Quote from: BobG on January 03, 2023, 10:02:59 amUpon which income is based and corporation tax paid. Any shenanigans with the official attendance figures would be a very dangerous game. Both HMRC and those who care about stopping money laundering would be hugely interested....BobGBob, i think that if the club had been trying to lower any tax they might be liable for then they would be showing a lower attendance than the declared numbers attending so i don't think your point is relevant this time.
Quote from: roversdude on January 04, 2023, 04:03:14 pmA huge part of our recent downturn can be traced back to DM’s reliance on loans and leaving with no squad in place. Granted it could be argued that maybe he shouldn’t have been allowed to do this but then there would have been cries of interference from above the problem is he was reliant on loans to secure better players, while you can get decent players on a free transfer when you very rarely pay any transfer fee it means we’re then restricted to the Loan market
Quote from: bpoolrover on January 04, 2023, 05:18:46 pmQuote from: roversdude on January 04, 2023, 04:03:14 pmA huge part of our recent downturn can be traced back to DM’s reliance on loans and leaving with no squad in place. Granted it could be argued that maybe he shouldn’t have been allowed to do this but then there would have been cries of interference from above the problem is he was reliant on loans to secure better players, while you can get decent players on a free transfer when you very rarely pay any transfer fee it means we’re then restricted to the Loan market Thete is no such thing as a "free transfer". The signing on fee can approach the realms of a club to club transfer
I said it would be a hugely dangerous thhing to fiddle attendance figures. I then remsrked that I thought there were only 700 or so attending a keague match in that final Firestarter season. The two points are entirely unrelated.BobG
Quote from: ravenrover on January 04, 2023, 06:23:17 pmQuote from: bpoolrover on January 04, 2023, 05:18:46 pmQuote from: roversdude on January 04, 2023, 04:03:14 pmA huge part of our recent downturn can be traced back to DM’s reliance on loans and leaving with no squad in place. Granted it could be argued that maybe he shouldn’t have been allowed to do this but then there would have been cries of interference from above the problem is he was reliant on loans to secure better players, while you can get decent players on a free transfer when you very rarely pay any transfer fee it means we’re then restricted to the Loan market Thete is no such thing as a "free transfer". The signing on fee can approach the realms of a club to club transfer no I understand that I meant not paying a transfer fee
Quote from: bpoolrover on January 04, 2023, 05:18:46 pmQuote from: roversdude on January 04, 2023, 04:03:14 pmA huge part of our recent downturn can be traced back to DM’s reliance on loans and leaving with no squad in place. Granted it could be argued that maybe he shouldn’t have been allowed to do this but then there would have been cries of interference from above the problem is he was reliant on loans to secure better players, while you can get decent players on a free transfer when you very rarely pay any transfer fee it means we’re then restricted to the Loan market Thete is no such thing as a "free transfer". The signing on fee can approach the realms of a club to club transfer
BFYP.Rather than me rattle on, would you please wait 24/48 hours to digest news from the club on this. NONE of this is bad I can assure you. Then I’ll be happy to discuss. Thank you.
Quote from: BobG on January 04, 2023, 09:38:02 amI said it would be a hugely dangerous thhing to fiddle attendance figures. I then remsrked that I thought there were only 700 or so attending a keague match in that final Firestarter season. The two points are entirely unrelated.BobGIt's Hound that's inferring that the official attendance isn't accurate. It'd be very odd for any football club to artificially inflate (and pay tax on) attendances with phantom attendees just to try and fool their fans into thinking the crowds aren't going down.
Those who have paid are counted as attending. If it were not so it would cause serious accounting difficulties about the timing of recognising revenue. You can't recognise income for a service that has not been provided. Whether or not a season ticket holder physically attends is entirely irrelevant. He has to be counted as attending whether he does or does not to allow the appropriate portion of his season ticket fee to be recognised in the accounts. So fantasies about over stating attendances are entirely born of ignorance. BobG
Quote from: BobG on January 04, 2023, 09:52:20 pmThose who have paid are counted as attending. If it were not so it would cause serious accounting difficulties about the timing of recognising revenue. You can't recognise income for a service that has not been provided. Whether or not a season ticket holder physically attends is entirely irrelevant. He has to be counted as attending whether he does or does not to allow the appropriate portion of his season ticket fee to be recognised in the accounts. So fantasies about over stating attendances are entirely born of ignorance. BobGHallelujah someone who recognises how accountancy works. It's not a choice of the club it's internationally recognised accountancy standards.
Why would supporters want to know that information, and what use would it be anyway, other than brass people off if we still didn't do well after pushing the boat out. It's purely about getting value for money, a football brain, and being able to build and sustain a good football team.Giving the wrong people money to spend does not guarantee success as Chelsea, Tottenham and Liverpool are finding out at the moment, while spending less well such as Brighton brings success, aided by managers who recognise ability.
Quote from: silent majority on January 04, 2023, 11:24:14 amQuote from: ForsolongaRover on January 03, 2023, 11:40:54 pmQuote from: BobG on January 03, 2023, 10:51:04 pmQuote from: drfchound on January 03, 2023, 03:58:05 pmQuote from: BobG on January 03, 2023, 10:02:59 amUpon which income is based and corporation tax paid. Any shenanigans with the official attendance figures would be a very dangerous game. Both HMRC and those who care about stopping money laundering would be hugely interested....BobGBob, i think that if the club had been trying to lower any tax they might be liable for then they would be showing a lower attendance than the declared numbers attending so i don't think your point is relevant this time.I think you've missed the difference between two separate points Hound. Not to worry.BobGIs it not the case that Bramall subsidises the club? And do we actually get to see the complete accounts? I get the impression that they don’t make any profit and that there will be losses brought forward to offset any future profits (if any are likely). So no tax would be payable would it? We’re not a loss making club anymore, therefore no subsidy is required. I based my comment on the DFP article https://www.doncasterfreepress.co.uk/sport/football/doncaster-rovers-accounts-latest-filings-and-why-rovers-ps34m-losses-are-nothing-to-be-concerned-about-3292303. Are we to assume that profits from Club Doncaster subsidises Doncaster Rovers Ltd? Would it be wrong to assume then that Mr Bramall is still providing loans to any of the associated companies?If we were able to refer to the Business Plan would we be able to discover exactly what money is available for the forthcoming transfer window? And can the amount be revealed?
Quote from: selby on January 04, 2023, 05:50:51 pm Why would supporters want to know that information, and what use would it be anyway, other than brass people off if we still didn't do well after pushing the boat out. It's purely about getting value for money, a football brain, and being able to build and sustain a good football team.Giving the wrong people money to spend does not guarantee success as Chelsea, Tottenham and Liverpool are finding out at the moment, while spending less well such as Brighton brings success, aided by managers who recognise ability.I get the impression that a lot of people are “brassed off” with quite a few of the recent transfer dealings. Failing to make sensible use of funds seems a legitimate criticism. As you say, it about getting value for money, but we are in no position to judge if we do not know what money is being made available or spent.Also Baldwin devoted an interview with the DFP about the Business Plan and later washed his hands of it when it clearly failed with the excuse that the footballing side of the club was not his responsibility. The Plan was never mentioned again, so presumably no one took ownership. No Business Plan has been mentioned since, so perhaps there is no plan anymore.
Equally Lincoln, does it have much aims other than ticking over as a sustainable lower league club with the odd flirtation with the play offs?Having no financial issues is brilliant don't get me wrong but where's the push to be a bit more successful?Explaining my point it seems clear to me the owner has little desire to spend any more (not a criticism) and in modern football you probably need that. So is there any intention for them to actively find someone who will spend significant sums or even modest sums?Whilst we aren't in any difficulty I don't see much signs of the above or investment in the infrastructure of the club.