Johnson's School Building Scheme

[wilts rover]

In 2019 the Johnson government announced a £220 million fund to build 12 new schools.

It has just been wound down after building 0 schools:

https://inews.co.uk/news/education/boris-johnson-dozen-schools-never-built-2043199

[Glyn_Wigley]

Where'd the £220mill go?

[danumdon]

Did you not read the article, it states the money will go towards the maintenance of existing schools to bring them up to standard.

Strange that the OP neglected to highlight that point. I wonder why?

[tyke1962]

 That's only the half of it , recruiting and keeping teachers in schools is something that needs addressing .

Labour say they are going to recruit 6500 teachers if elected to government but pretty much light on the detail on how they are going to do it .

I sincerely hope education is high up on the Labour to do list irrespective of the shyte show they are inheriting across practically everything .

Give kids a good start in life and they've at least half a chance .

[SydneyRover]

One thing at a time tyke, we're still dealing with the tories, what's your party promising?

[danumdon]

That's only the half of it , recruiting and keeping teachers in schools is something that needs addressing .

Labour say they are going to recruit 6500 teachers if elected to government but pretty much light on the detail on how they are going to do it .

I sincerely hope education is high up on the Labour to do list irrespective of the shyte show they are inheriting across practically everything .

Give kids a good start in life and they've at least half a chance .

Lets hope that this initiative is kept to by Labour if elected, we need the additional teachers but more importantly we need GOOD teachers.

I went to The McAuley School in Cantley as a kid, the only catholic high school in the borough. At the time it was along with Hayfield the best performing school in Doncaster for A level grades, overall good schools. This was evident by the fact that most of the teachers at the time were good experienced teachers who had been at the school for years, it was a case of once there they did not move on because the job was good and they were competent.

Jump forward to now and what do you have, loads of new and inexperienced teachers who are not great and either move on due to competence issues or leave the profession due to lack of competence. Consequently the averages at these schools have fallen and they don't have the same status they previously had.

If we have a big intake of teachers i'd like to think they were of a good enough standard to make a difference, if we just promote numbers into the profession without regard to the overall competence and standards then you are still going backwards in attainment.

[SydneyRover]

I support what you are saying except for the religious bit, when did this downgrading of teachers (and schools) start DD?

[Bentley Bullet]

We only need two grades of schools, high-intellect ones for the likes of BobG and low-intellect ones for those who don't share the same views.

[danumdon]

McAuley always used to be the best or one of the best performing schools in Doncaster for A level results, the trend of the last 15 years or so is for them to fall back into the pack. Its not that the rest of the high schools in Doncaster have caught up, they are roughly standing on similar scores, their averages have not risen materially but McAuleys scores have fallen.

The conclusion to be sought (and there are a few) could well be that the intake or the teaching staff have not performed, very easy to blame the students but social trends don't show this (re, the rest of the schools in the area) That then puts the teachers in the spotlight. so what's changed.

Well they have lost a good number of older experienced teachers in the last 15/20 years. They now have a much younger intake of teaching staff, are we seeing grade inflation in the teachers qualifications? or are they just not as good as they used to have? who knows but the overall outcome is falling standards, i know the state and church governors are concerned abut this.

One other thing to add, when i went there it was basically a catholic school with predominately catholic kids attending, its changed massively over the last 20 years to now being just another high school with a cross selection of kids from all backgrounds and ethnicities, i don't know if this has any bearing and don't have any data to prove either way.

[SydneyRover]

There's a lot of info in here which I don't have time to read atm

https://www.sciencedirect.com/topics/social-sciences/teacher-wages

[danumdon]

Yes, that doesn't tell me anything about the quality of teaching in Doncaster or England.

What it does say is in the states due to reduction in teacher union bargaining power they have seen a reduction in school attainment rates because the teachers pay has been managed

So basically if you pay teachers less you get less motivated teachers and the grades fall,now that is a surprise!

In my line of work, if you are less motivated and the quality of your output reduces then you will be following a new career path, somewhere else, without question.

[wilts rover]

Did you not read the article, it states the money will go towards the maintenance of existing schools to bring them up to standard.

Strange that the OP neglected to highlight that point. I wonder why?

Because the OP is highlighting another Johnson's failed promises. He could also have highlighted how people were told at the time he was a liar and a charlatan but refused to admit it - but he thought he would let other posters contribute and see how many tried to dissemble & distract from that.

[wilts rover]

Yes, that doesn't tell me anything about the quality of teaching in Doncaster or England.

What it does say is in the states due to reduction in teacher union bargaining power they have seen a reduction in school attainment rates because the teachers pay has been managed

So basically if you pay teachers less you get less motivated teachers and the grades fall,now that is a surprise!

In my line of work, if you are less motivated and the quality of your output reduces then you will be following a new career path, somewhere else, without question.

In your line of work you may be. But presumably you are easily replaced.

There is a current shortage of teachers (we were unable to recruit one last term) and with the numbers leaving being greater than the numbers in training this will only grow.

[Glyn_Wigley]

Did you not read the article, it states the money will go towards the maintenance of existing schools to bring them up to standard.

Strange that the OP neglected to highlight that point. I wonder why?

It wants me to turn off my adblocker and I won't. So I couldn't read it. Which is why I asked. Got a problem with that?

[danumdon]

Ive no problems here buddy,you can do what you want, i just find it odd that anyone would comment on a topic that was highlighting an artical they didn't read !

[danumdon]

Yes, that doesn't tell me anything about the quality of teaching in Doncaster or England.

What it does say is in the states due to reduction in teacher union bargaining power they have seen a reduction in school attainment rates because the teachers pay has been managed

So basically if you pay teachers less you get less motivated teachers and the grades fall,now that is a surprise!

In my line of work, if you are less motivated and the quality of your output reduces then you will be following a new career path, somewhere else, without question.

In your line of work you may be. But presumably you are easily replaced.

There is a current shortage of teachers (we were unable to recruit one last term) and with the numbers leaving being greater than the numbers in training this will only grow.

I think that's one thing i can say with some confidence is not the case.

My point is that there has been a gradual decline in quality of teachers being produced as i was pointing out in the example of my former high school, so if the numbers leaving is greater than the intake in training then that's a major issue as it seems a number of them are not what's required.

[Draytonian III]

I’m employed by a firm that supplies schools with new desks,chairs,fittings etc, the “life” of these things is five years before they are replaced.

[ravenrover]

Is it because of abuse of the equipment, poor quality equipment in the 1st place(as iin you get what you can afford) or the equipment wears out?
I can't remember a piece of furniture, desk table chair etc ever being replaced back in the day, everything wood

[Draytonian III]

The desks aren’t very sturdy more like tables you have in a canteen and the majority of the chairs are those found in a village hall. We also supply some universities, and the shelf life of a mattress is one year !!!

[Bentley Bullet]

I thought kids didn't use tables in school these days?

[BillyStubbsTears]

The desks aren’t very sturdy more like tables you have in a canteen and the majority of the chairs are those found in a village hall. We also supply some universities, and the shelf life of a mattress is one year !!!

Like the old 70s joke.

If all the University students in the country were laid end to end, no-one would be surprised.

[wilts rover]

Yes, that doesn't tell me anything about the quality of teaching in Doncaster or England.

What it does say is in the states due to reduction in teacher union bargaining power they have seen a reduction in school attainment rates because the teachers pay has been managed

So basically if you pay teachers less you get less motivated teachers and the grades fall,now that is a surprise!

In my line of work, if you are less motivated and the quality of your output reduces then you will be following a new career path, somewhere else, without question.

In your line of work you may be. But presumably you are easily replaced.

There is a current shortage of teachers (we were unable to recruit one last term) and with the numbers leaving being greater than the numbers in training this will only grow.

I think that's one thing i can say with some confidence is not the case.

My point is that there has been a gradual decline in quality of teachers being produced as i was pointing out in the example of my former high school, so if the numbers leaving is greater than the intake in training then that's a major issue as it seems a number of them are not what's required.

It is a major problem now and it's only going to get worse. And the government are doing what about it exactly?

https://schoolsweek.co.uk/dfe-target-for-new-trainee-teachers-could-be-missed-by-6k/

https://www.tes.com/magazine/analysis/general/teacher-shortages-recruitment-schools-education

https://www.economicsobservatory.com/how-might-teacher-shortages-be-reduced

https://www.theguardian.com/education/2022/dec/09/teacher-shortage-worsen-dfe-rejects-dozens-established-trainers

[Bentley Bullet]

The desks aren’t very sturdy more like tables you have in a canteen and the majority of the chairs are those found in a village hall. We also supply some universities, and the shelf life of a mattress is one year !!!

Ikea Starmer will sort it.

[Glyn_Wigley]

Ive no problems here buddy,you can do what you want, i just find it odd that anyone would comment on a topic that was highlighting an artical they didn't read !

I can only read the first paragraph before the pop-up blocker appears, nothing more. Why do you find it odd I'd want to know more about what I couldn't - not 'didn't' - read?

Oh, and what comment did I make? Just asking a question isn't giving an opinion.

[SydneyRover]

Yes, that doesn't tell me anything about the quality of teaching in Doncaster or England.

What it does say is in the states due to reduction in teacher union bargaining power they have seen a reduction in school attainment rates because the teachers pay has been managed

So basically if you pay teachers less you get less motivated teachers and the grades fall,now that is a surprise!

In my line of work, if you are less motivated and the quality of your output reduces then you will be following a new career path, somewhere else, without question.

I would agree that some teachers could be less motivated by an erosion of pay but I would think that over time many would look to other careers thereby reducing the numbers.

[danumdon]

Yes, that doesn't tell me anything about the quality of teaching in Doncaster or England.

What it does say is in the states due to reduction in teacher union bargaining power they have seen a reduction in school attainment rates because the teachers pay has been managed

So basically if you pay teachers less you get less motivated teachers and the grades fall,now that is a surprise!

In my line of work, if you are less motivated and the quality of your output reduces then you will be following a new career path, somewhere else, without question.

I would agree that some teachers could be less motivated by an erosion of pay but I would think that over time many would look to other careers thereby reducing the numbers.

And would that be such a bad thing?, in my opinion a teaching job should be a lifetime vocation and not in it for the money, if you are not in it for the right reasons then its probably best you leave pronto before you waste your own time and the poor pupils who would have to endure a badly motivated teacher.

Im all for the best teachers being able to forfil their vocation and i would be prepared for them to be suitably compensated. Its that important a job, good teachers make a lasting impression for a lifetime, bad teachers make a lasting impression of the wrong type. We need to weed out the wrong types and fully motivate the right candidates.

[Bentley Bullet]

Similar could be said about nursing and other health care workers regarding attracting the wrong type with higher wages. The problem is, how do you stop that happening?

[danumdon]

CPD plus a good CMS and a solid assessment regime should weed out the weak.

[les@donr]

The real problem with school teaching is that there is an attitude in schools towards new teachers is that they either sink or swim, without any proper mentorship by an experienced teacher. This was my experience of teaching in Sheffield in the early to mid 1990's. Had a Head of Department who didn't want me at the school, and no support from the other teachers including the Headteacher. I'm now an experienced Supply teacher, teaching in High schools in Canada, though things are not perfect, it is certainly a better school system than that in England.

[idler]

The real problem with school teaching is that there is an attitude in schools towards new teachers is that they either sink or swim, without any proper mentorship by an experienced teacher. This was my experience of teaching in Sheffield in the early to mid 1990's. Had a Head of Department who didn't want me at the school, and no support from the other teachers including the Headteacher. I'm now an experienced Supply teacher, teaching in High schools in Canada, though things are not perfect, it is certainly a better school system than that in England.

There are a lot of young Canadian teachers at my daughter’s school in Bradford. She is an experienced teacher by the way not a pupil.