Caolan Lavery

[RugbyRover]

He'll end up at a Wrexham/Notts County/Chesterfield type I think.

Being blown out of the water by the likes of Wrexham is something I thought we would never have to endure

They don’t have the same financial limitations in the NL as EFL clubs do

What limitations are there for EFL clubs?

[jamesrover17]

He'll end up at a Wrexham/Notts County/Chesterfield type I think.

Being blown out of the water by the likes of Wrexham is something I thought we would never have to endure

They don’t have the same financial limitations in the NL as EFL clubs do

I was only being partly serious, the money that gets thrown around down there is ridiculous

[Filo]

He'll end up at a Wrexham/Notts County/Chesterfield type I think.

Being blown out of the water by the likes of Wrexham is something I thought we would never have to endure

Historically Wrexham are a bigger club than us

[roversontheup]

Wrexham are spending huge amounts at present. Not sure if it’s gone through yet but they were pushing for the equiv of iFollow to show Nat League games including prime kick off times. They’ll get thousands because of all the US interest from followers of their Star owners!

[DonnyBazR0ver]

Ffs what happened to us wanting to be sustainable. Signings like this (and Clayton and Agard last Jan) don’t scream sustainability do they.

What has sustainability got to do with this signing? ( if he is signing )

Agreed CR, this has nothing to do with sustainability.

Sustainability is simple;

Income = Expenditure

Is sustainability not the ability to maintain a certain level? We are on a race to the bottom football wise.

If Lavery is good enough, why didn’t we sign him in the summer??

What happened to the two 30+ year old players we signed last January that I said were poor footballing decisions??

In terms of a short term signing as a stop gap between now and May, he could contribute a bit. We need to be thinking a bit broader than that though. We need continuity in strategy and decision making, I thought JC was brought in to do that. It’s obviously not the case if he wanted Clayton last January and acted like he was the answer to our prayers, and this January he has been deemed surplus to requirements. We are guessing on the football side. Pure and simple. Making it up as they go along.

Sustainability as discussed on here in recent weeks, and after GB released his New Year statement, was entirely focussed on the financial aspects of the club and was meant to demonstrate how well CD was performing in terms of meeting the financial obligations of the club. It was meant to show that we no longer need a rich benefactor and that the money handed over by them every season was no longer required.

Because the statement came from GB then it had a commercial perspective.

To see a football perspective we need to hear from DS/JC and then we might be able to have that discussion Gaz. And those chaps were not in position during the summer, or at least one of them wasn't, which means we may not be able to answer your questions for that reason.

Just picking up on your point that we no longer require a rich benefactor putting money in each year. Does that mean Brammel isn’t willing to do that anymore moving forwards.

Well I think our current position in the football league is good evidence of the success of our current Boards business model!

Since when do business models play football, with all the variables that brings.?

Not a direct answer to your question, but one thing is for sure, we're currently having to be "sustainable" at a much lower level than we would've been if the right structure had been in place to ensure previous budgets had been spent wisely.

Right now we've got declining interest from floating (and even some committed) fans (ergo lower gates), cheaper season ticket prices, fewer away fans through the turnstiles across the season, and I suspect less revenue from commercial, TV and solidarity as a result of being an average side in L2.

If the downward trend in the above continues then the "sustainable" budget we've got to play with gets smaller and smaller, and most likely leads to a worse product on the pitch. Self-fulfilling prophecy.

Unless we get better value for money from the people we employ. HoF, Head Coach, Players etc.

If the size of a sustainable budget determines a clubs place in the pyramid, then Accrington, Morecambe etc shouldn't be in League One. Brighton, Crystal Palace etc, should not be competing with and beating the likes of Liverpool, Man City, Man U etc. Everton should not be struggling as they are.

The default solution for many who attack the owners, question the budget etc, is to throw more money at it, to demand the owners give us more cash, and to accuse them of being tight etc.

Equally, if we continue by giving more money to those who underperform the results can just be the same.

Reversing the trend is the difficult bit. Better results, better football, higher attendances, more income.

[The Beast]

He'll end up at a Wrexham/Notts County/Chesterfield type I think.

Being blown out of the water by the likes of Wrexham is something I thought we would never have to endure

Historically Wrexham are a bigger club than us

Debatable.
I'd say they are now but historically, way before Donny was full of glory supporters, we had more pulling power.

[Pside]

Notts county offered him £10.30 an hour. We’re done

[Campsall rover]

He'll end up at a Wrexham/Notts County/Chesterfield type I think.

Being blown out of the water by the likes of Wrexham is something I thought we would never have to endure

Historically Wrexham are a bigger club than us

Disagree Filo. 
They are pulling in big gates at present but they haven’t done much league wise have they. Some good Cup runs yes.
Wrexham have a good catchment area if somewhat rural but the town is much much smaller than Doncaster

[Filo]

He'll end up at a Wrexham/Notts County/Chesterfield type I think.

Being blown out of the water by the likes of Wrexham is something I thought we would never have to endure

Historically Wrexham are a bigger club than us

Disagree Filo. 
They are pulling in big gates at present but they haven’t done much league wise have they. Some good Cup runs yes.
Wrexham have a good catchment area if somewhat rural but the town is much much smaller than Doncaster

You know I made that statement off the top of my head, having just looked you are correct, they seemed to be on telly a lot at one point for some reason, thats probably why I said that, I stand corrected and retract my earlier statement

[Campsall rover]

He'll end up at a Wrexham/Notts County/Chesterfield type I think.

Being blown out of the water by the likes of Wrexham is something I thought we would never have to endure

Historically Wrexham are a bigger club than us

This is Wrexhams 15th consecutive season in the Conference / National League.

Think they may well be about to embark on the best period of their history though.
Just had a look at their history and it looks as though  they have not played in the second tier at all.
Now i did think they had a couple of seasons at that level. 

[Crowle Rover]

He'll end up at a Wrexham/Notts County/Chesterfield type I think.

Being blown out of the water by the likes of Wrexham is something I thought we would never have to endure

Historically Wrexham are a bigger club than us

This is Wrexhams 15th consecutive season in the Conference / National League.

Think they may well be about to embark on the best period of their history though.
Just had a look at their history and it looks as though  they have not played in the second tier at all.
Now i did think they had a couple of seasons at that level. 

Me too. I was thinking late 70's when Mansfield had a brief spell there.

[Glyn_Wigley]

He'll end up at a Wrexham/Notts County/Chesterfield type I think.

Being blown out of the water by the likes of Wrexham is something I thought we would never have to endure

Historically Wrexham are a bigger club than us

This is Wrexhams 15th consecutive season in the Conference / National League.

Think they may well be about to embark on the best period of their history though.
Just had a look at their history and it looks as though  they have not played in the second tier at all.
Now i did think they had a couple of seasons at that level. 

I remember Wrexham in the old Second Division at the end of the seventies. Arfon Griffiths was their big goalscorer at the time.

[Glyn_Wigley]

He'll end up at a Wrexham/Notts County/Chesterfield type I think.

Being blown out of the water by the likes of Wrexham is something I thought we would never have to endure

Historically Wrexham are a bigger club than us

This is Wrexhams 15th consecutive season in the Conference / National League.

Think they may well be about to embark on the best period of their history though.
Just had a look at their history and it looks as though  they have not played in the second tier at all.
Now i did think they had a couple of seasons at that level. 

Me too. I was thinking late 70's when Mansfield had a brief spell there.

Mansfield only had one season there.

[Filo]

He'll end up at a Wrexham/Notts County/Chesterfield type I think.

Being blown out of the water by the likes of Wrexham is something I thought we would never have to endure

Historically Wrexham are a bigger club than us

This is Wrexhams 15th consecutive season in the Conference / National League.

Think they may well be about to embark on the best period of their history though.
Just had a look at their history and it looks as though  they have not played in the second tier at all.
Now i did think they had a couple of seasons at that level. 

They had 4 seasons in Division 2 from 1978 to 1982,

[Campsall rover]

He'll end up at a Wrexham/Notts County/Chesterfield type I think.

Being blown out of the water by the likes of Wrexham is something I thought we would never have to endure

Historically Wrexham are a bigger club than us

This is Wrexhams 15th consecutive season in the Conference / National League.

Think they may well be about to embark on the best period of their history though.
Just had a look at their history and it looks as though  they have not played in the second tier at all.
Now i did think they had a couple of seasons at that level. 

Me too. I was thinking late 70's when Mansfield had a brief spell there.

Always remember watching Mansfield v Spurs in the 2nd Div on TV. 1978  3-3 draw.

[Campsall rover]

He'll end up at a Wrexham/Notts County/Chesterfield type I think.

Being blown out of the water by the likes of Wrexham is something I thought we would never have to endure

Historically Wrexham are a bigger club than us

This is Wrexhams 15th consecutive season in the Conference / National League.

Think they may well be about to embark on the best period of their history though.
Just had a look at their history and it looks as though  they have not played in the second tier at all.
Now i did think they had a couple of seasons at that level. 

They had 4 seasons in Division 2 from 1978 to 1982,

They did Filo. Beat me to it. Just had another look because I was convinced they had been in 2nd tier.
Yes 4 seasons as you say.

[pib]

Ffs what happened to us wanting to be sustainable. Signings like this (and Clayton and Agard last Jan) don’t scream sustainability do they.

What has sustainability got to do with this signing? ( if he is signing )

Agreed CR, this has nothing to do with sustainability.

Sustainability is simple;

Income = Expenditure

Is sustainability not the ability to maintain a certain level? We are on a race to the bottom football wise.

If Lavery is good enough, why didn’t we sign him in the summer??

What happened to the two 30+ year old players we signed last January that I said were poor footballing decisions??

In terms of a short term signing as a stop gap between now and May, he could contribute a bit. We need to be thinking a bit broader than that though. We need continuity in strategy and decision making, I thought JC was brought in to do that. It’s obviously not the case if he wanted Clayton last January and acted like he was the answer to our prayers, and this January he has been deemed surplus to requirements. We are guessing on the football side. Pure and simple. Making it up as they go along.

Sustainability as discussed on here in recent weeks, and after GB released his New Year statement, was entirely focussed on the financial aspects of the club and was meant to demonstrate how well CD was performing in terms of meeting the financial obligations of the club. It was meant to show that we no longer need a rich benefactor and that the money handed over by them every season was no longer required.

Because the statement came from GB then it had a commercial perspective.

To see a football perspective we need to hear from DS/JC and then we might be able to have that discussion Gaz. And those chaps were not in position during the summer, or at least one of them wasn't, which means we may not be able to answer your questions for that reason.

Just picking up on your point that we no longer require a rich benefactor putting money in each year. Does that mean Brammel isn’t willing to do that anymore moving forwards.

Well I think our current position in the football league is good evidence of the success of our current Boards business model!

Since when do business models play football, with all the variables that brings.?

Not a direct answer to your question, but one thing is for sure, we're currently having to be "sustainable" at a much lower level than we would've been if the right structure had been in place to ensure previous budgets had been spent wisely.

Right now we've got declining interest from floating (and even some committed) fans (ergo lower gates), cheaper season ticket prices, fewer away fans through the turnstiles across the season, and I suspect less revenue from commercial, TV and solidarity as a result of being an average side in L2.

If the downward trend in the above continues then the "sustainable" budget we've got to play with gets smaller and smaller, and most likely leads to a worse product on the pitch. Self-fulfilling prophecy.

Unless we get better value for money from the people we employ. HoF, Head Coach, Players etc.

If the size of a sustainable budget determines a clubs place in the pyramid, then Accrington, Morecambe etc shouldn't be in League One. Brighton, Crystal Palace etc, should not be competing with and beating the likes of Liverpool, Man City, Man U etc. Everton should not be struggling as they are.

The default solution for many who attack the owners, question the budget etc, is to throw more money at it, to demand the owners give us more cash, and to accuse them of being tight etc.

Equally, if we continue by giving more money to those who underperform the results can just be the same.

Reversing the trend is the difficult bit. Better results, better football, higher attendances, more income.

I agree wholeheartedly Baz. We've got better gates than most in L2 (and just under half of L1) and supposedly generate the most income in the lower leagues through our commercial model. If the setup and personnel was right at the club, we should be doing a damn sight better than mid-table in L2 with those facts in mind.

The point I was trying to make was that if those factors had been addressed and we were a well-run club in football terms (which we're not - nobody can claim we are with the recruitment and results of the last few years), then we'd have a higher level of income to work with. If you don't address those things and spiral downwards in football terms, you also spiral downwards in terms of revenue due to the factors I highlighted.

The recruitment that has taken place even since the "re-structure" of the football operations, and the news that we're in for players like Lavery, doesn't give me any confidence personally that these issues with the way the club operates are being sufficiently addressed.

[bpoolrover]

Ffs what happened to us wanting to be sustainable. Signings like this (and Clayton and Agard last Jan) don’t scream sustainability do they.

What has sustainability got to do with this signing? ( if he is signing )

Agreed CR, this has nothing to do with sustainability.

Sustainability is simple;

Income = Expenditure

Is sustainability not the ability to maintain a certain level? We are on a race to the bottom football wise.

If Lavery is good enough, why didn’t we sign him in the summer??

What happened to the two 30+ year old players we signed last January that I said were poor footballing decisions??

In terms of a short term signing as a stop gap between now and May, he could contribute a bit. We need to be thinking a bit broader than that though. We need continuity in strategy and decision making, I thought JC was brought in to do that. It’s obviously not the case if he wanted Clayton last January and acted like he was the answer to our prayers, and this January he has been deemed surplus to requirements. We are guessing on the football side. Pure and simple. Making it up as they go along.

Sustainability as discussed on here in recent weeks, and after GB released his New Year statement, was entirely focussed on the financial aspects of the club and was meant to demonstrate how well CD was performing in terms of meeting the financial obligations of the club. It was meant to show that we no longer need a rich benefactor and that the money handed over by them every season was no longer required.

Because the statement came from GB then it had a commercial perspective.

To see a football perspective we need to hear from DS/JC and then we might be able to have that discussion Gaz. And those chaps were not in position during the summer, or at least one of them wasn't, which means we may not be able to answer your questions for that reason.

Just picking up on your point that we no longer require a rich benefactor putting money in each year. Does that mean Brammel isn’t willing to do that anymore moving forwards.

Well I think our current position in the football league is good evidence of the success of our current Boards business model!

Since when do business models play football, with all the variables that brings.?

Not a direct answer to your question, but one thing is for sure, we're currently having to be "sustainable" at a much lower level than we would've been if the right structure had been in place to ensure previous budgets had been spent wisely.

Right now we've got declining interest from floating (and even some committed) fans (ergo lower gates), cheaper season ticket prices, fewer away fans through the turnstiles across the season, and I suspect less revenue from commercial, TV and solidarity as a result of being an average side in L2.

If the downward trend in the above continues then the "sustainable" budget we've got to play with gets smaller and smaller, and most likely leads to a worse product on the pitch. Self-fulfilling prophecy.

Unless we get better value for money from the people we employ. HoF, Head Coach, Players etc.

If the size of a sustainable budget determines a clubs place in the pyramid, then Accrington, Morecambe etc shouldn't be in League One. Brighton, Crystal Palace etc, should not be competing with and beating the likes of Liverpool, Man City, Man U etc. Everton should not be struggling as they are.

The default solution for many who attack the owners, question the budget etc, is to throw more money at it, to demand the owners give us more cash, and to accuse them of being tight etc.

Equally, if we continue by giving more money to those who underperform the results can just be the same.

Reversing the trend is the difficult bit. Better results, better football, higher attendances, more income.

I agree wholeheartedly Baz. We've got better gates than most in L2 (and just under half of L1) and supposedly generate the most income in the lower leagues through our commercial model. If the setup and personnel was right at the club, we should be doing a damn sight better than mid-table in L2 with those facts in mind.

The point I was trying to make was that if those factors had been addressed and we were a well-run club in football terms (which we're not - nobody can claim we are with the recruitment and results of the last few years), then we'd have a higher level of income to work with. If you don't address those things and spiral downwards in football terms, you also spiral downwards in terms of revenue due to the factors I highlighted.

The recruitment that has taken place even since the "re-structure" of the football operations, and the news that we're in for players like Lavery, doesn't give me any confidence personally that these issues with the way the club operates are being sufficiently addressed.

the problem was is that we went sustainable when we only had half a team, so we didn’t have the funds to build a decent team and will continue to struggle due to that

[scawsby steve]

He'll end up at a Wrexham/Notts County/Chesterfield type I think.

Being blown out of the water by the likes of Wrexham is something I thought we would never have to endure

Historically Wrexham are a bigger club than us

Disagree Filo. 
They are pulling in big gates at present but they haven’t done much league wise have they. Some good Cup runs yes.
Wrexham have a good catchment area if somewhat rural but the town is much much smaller than Doncaster

The size of towns means nothing, Camps. Barnsley and Rotherham are both small towns, but much better supported than us, and much more successful.

[Padge_DRFC]

He'll end up at a Wrexham/Notts County/Chesterfield type I think.

Being blown out of the water by the likes of Wrexham is something I thought we would never have to endure

Historically Wrexham are a bigger club than us

Disagree Filo. 
They are pulling in big gates at present but they haven’t done much league wise have they. Some good Cup runs yes.
Wrexham have a good catchment area if somewhat rural but the town is much much smaller than Doncaster

The size of towns means nothing, Camps. Barnsley and Rotherham are both small towns, but much better supported than us, and much more successful.

Real shame as a decade ago and a bit we got much better crowds in than Rotherham. We really have gone backwards and the support has really died off.

[Campsall rover]

He'll end up at a Wrexham/Notts County/Chesterfield type I think.

Being blown out of the water by the likes of Wrexham is something I thought we would never have to endure

Historically Wrexham are a bigger club than us

Disagree Filo. 
They are pulling in big gates at present but they haven’t done much league wise have they. Some good Cup runs yes.
Wrexham have a good catchment area if somewhat rural but the town is much much smaller than Doncaster

The size of towns means nothing, Camps. Barnsley and Rotherham are both small towns, but much better supported than us, and much more successful.

They are not small SS  Rotherham 255.000 & Barnsley 232.000  Met Borough population.
Doncaster 309.000

Wrexham 61.000 and the county Borough is 133.000
Big difference to the 3 South Yorkshire towns / City

Rotherham are not much better supported than us.
They are in the Championship and averaging 10.000 gates.
That’s less than 4.000:more than us and 2 divisions higher with much larger away followings.

We got between 11.940 & 9.300 ave gates in that league over 5 seasons.
Rotherham have never been better supported based on the comparative league they have been in.

[DonnyBazR0ver]

Donny v Rotherham attendances

http://european-football-statistics.co.uk/attnclub/league/donr.htm

http://european-football-statistics.co.uk/attnclub/league/rotu.htm

Not alot in the historical averages.

[Chris Black come back]

We were both in the same league last season. We averaged 6,900 and they averaged 9,300.

[Campsall rover]

We were both in the same league last season. We averaged 6,900 and they averaged 9,300.

They finished 2nd
We finished in the bottom 4 so that’s expected. 

DBR has put a link on for both clubs. If you study it closely based on the number of years each club has been in which League level then Rovers are the better supported historically.

Rotherham have had more years in the 2nd tier and less than us in the 4th.

That’s an indisputable fact.  Work out the averages. 

[Campsall rover]

Donny v Rotherham attendances

http://european-football-statistics.co.uk/attnclub/league/donr.htm

http://european-football-statistics.co.uk/attnclub/league/rotu.htm

Not alot in the historical averages.

Based on ave league placings we are a fair bit ahead on attendances.

[elmsallrover]

Yes but one was in the top 3 all season while one was in the bottom 4 all season

[DonnyBazR0ver]

Anyway, I know we've gone off topic somewhat but generally we can plot our way through the years to determine when we've been on an upward or downward trajectory.

If you get into a debate with a Rotherham fan, you know where to go.

[Campsall rover]

Anyway, I know we've gone off topic somewhat but generally we can plot our way through the years to determine when we've been on an upward or downward trajectory.

If you get into a debate with a Rotherham fan, you know where to go.

Try to keep well away from Rotherham fans.  Even when i am in Rotherham. Not difficult though as most support Wednesday, United or Leeds.   

[Chris Black come back]

We were both in the same league last season. We averaged 6,900 and they averaged 9,300.

They finished 2nd
We finished in the bottom 4 so that’s expected. 

DBR has put a link on for both clubs. If you study it closely based on the number of years each club has been in which League level then Rovers are the better supported historically.

Rotherham have had more years in the 2nd tier and less than us in the 4th.

That’s an indisputable fact.  Work out the averages. 

Yes, most people are aware we finished third bottom last season. It gets mentioned from time to time on here.

[Campsall rover]

We were both in the same league last season. We averaged 6,900 and they averaged 9,300.

They finished 2nd
We finished in the bottom 4 so that’s expected. 

DBR has put a link on for both clubs. If you study it closely based on the number of years each club has been in which League level then Rovers are the better supported historically.

Rotherham have had more years in the 2nd tier and less than us in the 4th.

That’s an indisputable fact.  Work out the averages. 

Yes, most people are aware we finished third bottom last season. It gets mentioned from time to time on here.

No need to be sarky CBcb
You posted the respective gates of both clubs last season.
It’s not unreasonable to point out the respective league positions both clubs had.
So it is not surprising Rotherham had a higher ave gate.