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BST. I think anyone who comes out with comments that compare our government to that of Nazi Germany has the right to say so but should be aware of the consequences of it. A high-profile person like Lineker should know better than to provoke a reaction with such a statement, especially from his employers, who have warned employees not to bring the BBC into disrepute over concerns of impartiality. Everyone has the right to freedom of speech, but that doesn’t mean freedom from the consequences of what they have said. Now then, I'll ask you again. Are you saying free speech shouldn't have consequences?
I'll humour you while you are trying to figure out what you think and answer your really badly posed question.Do I think free speech SHOULD have consequences? No. I don't think Martin Luther King SHOULD have been shot for speaking out about prejudice.Do I think free speech DOES have consequences?Yes, of course it does. But those consequences are not always fair, proportionate or rational. Really odd that you should ask such a question, but there you go. Over to you.
I've answered you clearly BB.No I don't think automatically that free speech SHOULD have consequences. Thank you for finally clearing up that you do believe in Cancel Culture. You could have avoided a lot of typing if you'd just said that straight out.So presumably you also think that Sugar should have been disciplined by the BBC for a 3 year tirade of abuse aimed at Corbyn and Abbot, including a call for people not to vote Labour in the 2019 election campaign?Simple yes/no. None of your usual verbosity.
Quote from: BillyStubbsTears on March 09, 2023, 03:05:10 pmApparently the BBC top brass are really annoyed that a major figure at the BBC is discussing politics online when not at the BBC.If you're going to give an opinion or start a debate it's always best not to begin with a false premise.The BBC are apparently annoyed because Gary Lineker made a wholly inappropriate comparison between current UK politicians and those of Nazi Germany.Lineker often tweets his opinion on political matters including most recently on Sue Gray, the Northern Ireland Protocol etc - there is no evidence that the BBC top brass expressed annoyance with those opinions.Lineker is a celebrity presenter and not a journalist. He's therefore perfectly free IMO (and under his BBC contract) to express his political opinions just as much as anyone else.The debate really is about whether the BBC should be accepting of it's celebrity employees making inappropriate public comments. What constitutes inappropriate. And where should the line be drawn.Any comparison of today's politicians to Nazi Germany is clearly inappropriate. Regardless of Lineker's underlying view which I agree with re being against the Immigration Bill.His comment is not just inappropriate but historically ignorant and childish. His failure to apologies (on the Nazi Germany comparison not on his opposition to the Bill) is really doing him no favours. I therefore find it impossible to have any sympathy for him.Has he crossed a line whereby the BBC should dispense with his services? IMO no but if I were his boss I'd be calling him in for a chat and to give a warning on future behaviour. Which, reading between the lines, is exactly what the BBC are doing.
Apparently the BBC top brass are really annoyed that a major figure at the BBC is discussing politics online when not at the BBC.
Quote from: Branton Red on March 09, 2023, 08:00:14 pmQuote from: BillyStubbsTears on March 09, 2023, 03:05:10 pmApparently the BBC top brass are really annoyed that a major figure at the BBC is discussing politics online when not at the BBC.If you're going to give an opinion or start a debate it's always best not to begin with a false premise.The BBC are apparently annoyed because Gary Lineker made a wholly inappropriate comparison between current UK politicians and those of Nazi Germany.Lineker often tweets his opinion on political matters including most recently on Sue Gray, the Northern Ireland Protocol etc - there is no evidence that the BBC top brass expressed annoyance with those opinions.Lineker is a celebrity presenter and not a journalist. He's therefore perfectly free IMO (and under his BBC contract) to express his political opinions just as much as anyone else.The debate really is about whether the BBC should be accepting of it's celebrity employees making inappropriate public comments. What constitutes inappropriate. And where should the line be drawn.Any comparison of today's politicians to Nazi Germany is clearly inappropriate. Regardless of Lineker's underlying view which I agree with re being against the Immigration Bill.His comment is not just inappropriate but historically ignorant and childish. His failure to apologies (on the Nazi Germany comparison not on his opposition to the Bill) is really doing him no favours. I therefore find it impossible to have any sympathy for him.Has he crossed a line whereby the BBC should dispense with his services? IMO no but if I were his boss I'd be calling him in for a chat and to give a warning on future behaviour. Which, reading between the lines, is exactly what the BBC are doing.Got it spot on Branton. The voice of reason. Imo you are the only one who gets it. For Gary Linaker to compare this Uk government with Nazi Germany is totally out of order. There is no comparison, none whatsoever. GL wasn’t even born when the Nazi’s were murdering millions of innocent people due to religion and ethnicity. Does he seriously think this government are doing what they did.
BrantonThere's a spectrum.Fascism gains acceptance and responsibility by worming concepts into people's headsDehumanisation of "The Other" - e.g. saying we are being invaded by illegal aliensDelegitimising of dissent - e.g. saying that the leftwing activist "blob" were being disloyal to the nation.Calling on some mythical national will to take precedence over legal obligations.All those methods were used in Germany in the early days of Hitler's ascent. All of them were used in the past few weeks by Braverman.You choose two examples. I e from when Hitler was a nobody, a raving street fighter, a minor joke figure, before he realised he needed to couch his ideas in the sort of language I give examples of above. The other after fascism had triumphed and was out in the open.You don't actually think that the German people in the 1930s woke up one morning and said "Right. Time to clear out the untermensch" do you?That came from a decade of ground laying. If normalising the tropes in the examples I give above.
Got it spot on Branton. The voice of reason. Imo you are the only one who gets it. For Gary Linaker to compare this Uk government with Nazi Germany is totally out of order. There is no comparison, none whatsoever. GL wasn’t even born when the Nazi’s were murdering millions of innocent people due to religion and ethnicity. Does he seriously think this government are doing what they did. He needs to think before he posts. Yes it’s a democracy we live in. We are entitled to Free speech thank you. We don’t want a to be scared to speak as in Russia or China for fear of being locked up or even killed. Of course we don’t want that, but there has to be a line drawn and GL crossed that line. He should be sat down and have this spelt out to him and asked to apologise for the words he used.If he does that and is genuine about it, then that should be the end of the matter. If he doesn’t then the BBC are left with little choice but to dismiss him. BST what Alan Sugar said about Corbyn or Diane Abbott was nothing to compare. Don’t try that for your own political agenda it’s not befitting and doesn’t paint you in a good light. Sorry to have to say that. Yes I do agree the BBC are politically bias towards the Tory’s and it is not good to see. They should be 100% impartial at all times. Believe it or not I might even vote Labour at the next election for the 1st time ever. This government are making a pigs ear of running the economy imo. And I am losing patience with them.This coming budget needs to be a massive improvement on the policies of last 2 yrs. The personal tax allowance needs to be in increased not frozen for a start. How does the PM and Chancellor think that will help people on lower incomes and OAP’ who are still working for a living. Cloud cuckoo land they are in.
Quote from: Campsall rover on March 12, 2023, 06:33:47 pmQuote from: Branton Red on March 09, 2023, 08:00:14 pmQuote from: BillyStubbsTears on March 09, 2023, 03:05:10 pmApparently the BBC top brass are really annoyed that a major figure at the BBC is discussing politics online when not at the BBC.If you're going to give an opinion or start a debate it's always best not to begin with a false premise.The BBC are apparently annoyed because Gary Lineker made a wholly inappropriate comparison between current UK politicians and those of Nazi Germany.Lineker often tweets his opinion on political matters including most recently on Sue Gray, the Northern Ireland Protocol etc - there is no evidence that the BBC top brass expressed annoyance with those opinions.Lineker is a celebrity presenter and not a journalist. He's therefore perfectly free IMO (and under his BBC contract) to express his political opinions just as much as anyone else.The debate really is about whether the BBC should be accepting of it's celebrity employees making inappropriate public comments. What constitutes inappropriate. And where should the line be drawn.Any comparison of today's politicians to Nazi Germany is clearly inappropriate. Regardless of Lineker's underlying view which I agree with re being against the Immigration Bill.His comment is not just inappropriate but historically ignorant and childish. His failure to apologies (on the Nazi Germany comparison not on his opposition to the Bill) is really doing him no favours. I therefore find it impossible to have any sympathy for him.Has he crossed a line whereby the BBC should dispense with his services? IMO no but if I were his boss I'd be calling him in for a chat and to give a warning on future behaviour. Which, reading between the lines, is exactly what the BBC are doing.Got it spot on Branton. The voice of reason. Imo you are the only one who gets it. For Gary Linaker to compare this Uk government with Nazi Germany is totally out of order. There is no comparison, none whatsoever. GL wasn’t even born when the Nazi’s were murdering millions of innocent people due to religion and ethnicity. Does he seriously think this government are doing what they did. You say Branton is the only one who gets it but it doesn't sound like you get it...At no point did Lineker compare the Tory party to what the Nazis did during WW2 and it's getting exhausting that people are adding 2+2 and getting Banana. He suggested language used by the Tory party was similar to that what was used in Germany in the 30s.If you look at what has been said within the last couple of years you may agree with the general point. We've had the Home Secretary call asylum seekers an invasion.We had her siding with aggressive protestors and blaming the victims.We've stripped the rights of asylum seekers if they were to come here, when the only way possible to claim asylum in the UK is to get to the UK!Attacked our rights to peacefully protest.Etc, etc..The persecution of the Jews didn't start with the Holocaust, it started with blaming the Jews for the countrys problems.
And of course if there are different rules for everyone at the bbc there will inevitably a situation where a news journo in a live cross to a sports reporter asking 'how government policy will affect the game/s' and the sports reporter would have to say 'no-comment'
''When Alan Sugar tweeted an image depicting Jeremy Corbyn as a Nazi (or indeed, when Gary Lineker tweeted "Bin Corbyn" in 2017), that didn't precipitate an internal crisis for BBC over its impartiality. Why?''https://twitter.com/AyoCaesar/status/1633749550719483911
Quote from: SydneyRover on March 13, 2023, 05:36:53 am''When Alan Sugar tweeted an image depicting Jeremy Corbyn as a Nazi (or indeed, when Gary Lineker tweeted "Bin Corbyn" in 2017), that didn't precipitate an internal crisis for BBC over its impartiality. Why?''https://twitter.com/AyoCaesar/status/1633749550719483911Do you think it should have done?
Quote from: DonnyOsmond on March 12, 2023, 07:18:14 pmQuote from: Campsall rover on March 12, 2023, 06:33:47 pmQuote from: Branton Red on March 09, 2023, 08:00:14 pmQuote from: BillyStubbsTears on March 09, 2023, 03:05:10 pmApparently the BBC top brass are really annoyed that a major figure at the BBC is discussing politics online when not at the BBC.If you're going to give an opinion or start a debate it's always best not to begin with a false premise.The BBC are apparently annoyed because Gary Lineker made a wholly inappropriate comparison between current UK politicians and those of Nazi Germany.Lineker often tweets his opinion on political matters including most recently on Sue Gray, the Northern Ireland Protocol etc - there is no evidence that the BBC top brass expressed annoyance with those opinions.Lineker is a celebrity presenter and not a journalist. He's therefore perfectly free IMO (and under his BBC contract) to express his political opinions just as much as anyone else.The debate really is about whether the BBC should be accepting of it's celebrity employees making inappropriate public comments. What constitutes inappropriate. And where should the line be drawn.Any comparison of today's politicians to Nazi Germany is clearly inappropriate. Regardless of Lineker's underlying view which I agree with re being against the Immigration Bill.His comment is not just inappropriate but historically ignorant and childish. His failure to apologies (on the Nazi Germany comparison not on his opposition to the Bill) is really doing him no favours. I therefore find it impossible to have any sympathy for him.Has he crossed a line whereby the BBC should dispense with his services? IMO no but if I were his boss I'd be calling him in for a chat and to give a warning on future behaviour. Which, reading between the lines, is exactly what the BBC are doing.Got it spot on Branton. The voice of reason. Imo you are the only one who gets it. For Gary Linaker to compare this Uk government with Nazi Germany is totally out of order. There is no comparison, none whatsoever. GL wasn’t even born when the Nazi’s were murdering millions of innocent people due to religion and ethnicity. Does he seriously think this government are doing what they did. You say Branton is the only one who gets it but it doesn't sound like you get it...At no point did Lineker compare the Tory party to what the Nazis did during WW2 and it's getting exhausting that people are adding 2+2 and getting Banana. He suggested language used by the Tory party was similar to that what was used in Germany in the 30s.If you look at what has been said within the last couple of years you may agree with the general point. We've had the Home Secretary call asylum seekers an invasion.We had her siding with aggressive protestors and blaming the victims.We've stripped the rights of asylum seekers if they were to come here, when the only way possible to claim asylum in the UK is to get to the UK!Attacked our rights to peacefully protest.Etc, etc..The persecution of the Jews didn't start with the Holocaust, it started with blaming the Jews for the countrys problems.Ok fair enough. I have to admit I have not seen the tweet from GL. So just going by what he is supposed to have said. If it was as you say then that’s quite different. With it being a private tweet and nothing to do with his work for the BBC then he is entitled to say what he thinks. As said we have the freedom of speech in this country as long as it doesn’t cross a line. If he said only what you say then that doesn’t cross the line imo. The way this government is talking is somewhat concerning although they do need to get a grip on these channel crossings. How to differentiate between genuine asylum seekers fleeing persecution and illegal asylum seekers is a massive problem.