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I must be honest that whilst I've commented on the DS and Copps situation, I find myself not really giving much of a toss about whether they are sacked or not because I genuinely believe that we're at a point where it wont make any difference who the Manager is. We'll only replace them with more inexperienced dross. The club appears to be in terminal decline and something is very wrong behind the scenes. I cannot however put my finger on specifically what it is. Oh we know that the board have stopped funding the club out of their own pockets but that in itself is their prerogative. However, they as experinced business people will see that we're going down the pan and that doesn't make sense to me that they appear content with that. So I ask the question, what exactly is going on? What is the end-game for our current owners? I'm genuinely stumped.Multipe posters are beginning to compare this to the Richardson era and whilst that may initially seem a very alarmist comparison, one cannot argue with the fact that the club at present seems to be being run into the ground albeit not quite as deliberately as brazenly and as vindictively as it was in the mid-90s. This time it's more a case of apathy and neglect. Death by a thousand cuts as opposed to the scorched earth policy of Richardson. But I still think we're headed in the same direction. Not as quickly and not as spectacularly, but make no mistake, we're going out the league unless something changes at the top. Lets not forget that even under Richardson, we had a spell at the top of Division 3 before he went and sold all the best players. But we still knew the club was rotten and going nowhere but down. I have the same feeling now. We receive nothing in the way of substantive reassurance from the Board as to what the actual aims and ambitions of the owners actually are. Is it survival as a football club and nothing more? Is it promotion from League 2? Do they still have the aspirations to own a Championship Club as they trumpeted in the 5 year Plan? It's all smoke and mirrors and something is clearly playing out behind the scenes here of which we're not being made aware. Whilst Silent Majority has flatly refused on five occasions (and counting) to confirm where exactly our current budget would place us in the football pyramid, he has however very recently confirmed that Blunt and Baldwin are very much equal owners in the truest sense of the word alongside Bramall. Nobody has ever been told how they came to be owners, what they have paid into the club and what they receive in return for their valuable equity stakes. The only comment we have on that from Silent Majority is "it's complicated". I'm afraid that's not good enough from a fans representative. The simple fact is that Baldwin, Blunt and Bramall are presiding over a decline of significant proportion which we're going to struggle to reverse. I cannot for the life of me work out what their end game is here and why they are even bothering when they clearly have no current interest in providing the level of financial support required for us to have a club competing at League 1/Championship level. They seem barely interested in having a League 2 club....If they want out, running the club down like this seems a funny way to go about it as presumably we're worth less as an asset now than we were when we were a League 1 club. So what on earth are they actually playing at? Is it jobs for the boys and a nice pay packet Baldwin forevermore? Is it instead this truly pure altruistic motive to ensure that the good folk of Doncaster always have a club of some capacity, even if it is a tin-pot non-league outfit with no fans in scruffy stadium? Do they actually want to sell the club, in which case it might help to come out and say so? Is there a boardroom squabble playing out? Is it linked to how Blunt and Baldwin suddenly became one third owners in the club?! Who knows. If only we had someone on the board who could ask the difficult questions. Silent Majority assures us that he does indeed ask those questions and he does hold the board's "feet to the fire". Lovely to hear. Unfortunately however, he never shares answers to the difficult to questions, or at least not ones that may show the board in a negative light. The concept of the VSC was established to prevent the club ever finding itself in the position it was in back in the late 90s and to provide a level of transparency and reassurance that had been sadly lacking in the past. I don't believe that it is working in that way at present.
Quote from: TommyC on March 24, 2023, 11:36:20 amI must be honest that whilst I've commented on the DS and Copps situation, I find myself not really giving much of a toss about whether they are sacked or not because I genuinely believe that we're at a point where it wont make any difference who the Manager is. We'll only replace them with more inexperienced dross. The club appears to be in terminal decline and something is very wrong behind the scenes. I cannot however put my finger on specifically what it is. Oh we know that the board have stopped funding the club out of their own pockets but that in itself is their prerogative. However, they as experinced business people will see that we're going down the pan and that doesn't make sense to me that they appear content with that. So I ask the question, what exactly is going on? What is the end-game for our current owners? I'm genuinely stumped.Multipe posters are beginning to compare this to the Richardson era and whilst that may initially seem a very alarmist comparison, one cannot argue with the fact that the club at present seems to be being run into the ground albeit not quite as deliberately as brazenly and as vindictively as it was in the mid-90s. This time it's more a case of apathy and neglect. Death by a thousand cuts as opposed to the scorched earth policy of Richardson. But I still think we're headed in the same direction. Not as quickly and not as spectacularly, but make no mistake, we're going out the league unless something changes at the top. Lets not forget that even under Richardson, we had a spell at the top of Division 3 before he went and sold all the best players. But we still knew the club was rotten and going nowhere but down. I have the same feeling now. We receive nothing in the way of substantive reassurance from the Board as to what the actual aims and ambitions of the owners actually are. Is it survival as a football club and nothing more? Is it promotion from League 2? Do they still have the aspirations to own a Championship Club as they trumpeted in the 5 year Plan? It's all smoke and mirrors and something is clearly playing out behind the scenes here of which we're not being made aware. Whilst Silent Majority has flatly refused on five occasions (and counting) to confirm where exactly our current budget would place us in the football pyramid, he has however very recently confirmed that Blunt and Baldwin are very much equal owners in the truest sense of the word alongside Bramall. Nobody has ever been told how they came to be owners, what they have paid into the club and what they receive in return for their valuable equity stakes. The only comment we have on that from Silent Majority is "it's complicated". I'm afraid that's not good enough from a fans representative. The simple fact is that Baldwin, Blunt and Bramall are presiding over a decline of significant proportion which we're going to struggle to reverse. I cannot for the life of me work out what their end game is here and why they are even bothering when they clearly have no current interest in providing the level of financial support required for us to have a club competing at League 1/Championship level. They seem barely interested in having a League 2 club....If they want out, running the club down like this seems a funny way to go about it as presumably we're worth less as an asset now than we were when we were a League 1 club. So what on earth are they actually playing at? Is it jobs for the boys and a nice pay packet Baldwin forevermore? Is it instead this truly pure altruistic motive to ensure that the good folk of Doncaster always have a club of some capacity, even if it is a tin-pot non-league outfit with no fans in scruffy stadium? Do they actually want to sell the club, in which case it might help to come out and say so? Is there a boardroom squabble playing out? Is it linked to how Blunt and Baldwin suddenly became one third owners in the club?! Who knows. If only we had someone on the board who could ask the difficult questions. Silent Majority assures us that he does indeed ask those questions and he does hold the board's "feet to the fire". Lovely to hear. Unfortunately however, he never shares answers to the difficult to questions, or at least not ones that may show the board in a negative light. The concept of the VSC was established to prevent the club ever finding itself in the position it was in back in the late 90s and to provide a level of transparency and reassurance that had been sadly lacking in the past. I don't believe that it is working in that way at present. This argument is predicated on the assumption that our finances aren't enough to get promotion from this division .Whereas there's a perfectly reasonable counterargument that they are, but have been grossly mis-spent.This argument also ignores the comment made by SM several times, that or sustainability model will actually work better in L1 than in L2.
I must be honest that whilst I've commented on the DS and Copps situation, I find myself not really giving much of a toss about whether they are sacked or not because I genuinely believe that we're at a point where it wont make any difference who the Manager is. We'll only replace them with more inexperienced dross. The club appears to be in terminal decline and something is very wrong behind the scenes. I cannot however put my finger on specifically what it is. Oh we know that the board have stopped funding the club out of their own pockets but that in itself is their prerogative. However, they as experinced business people will see that we're going down the pan and that doesn't make sense to me that they appear content with that. So I ask the question, what exactly is going on? What is the end-game for our current owners? I'm genuinely stumped.Multipe posters are beginning to compare this to the Richardson era and whilst that may initially seem a very alarmist comparison, one cannot argue with the fact that the club at present seems to be being run into the ground albeit not quite as deliberately as brazenly and as vindictively as it was in the mid-90s. This time it's more a case of apathy and neglect. Death by a thousand cuts as opposed to the scorched earth policy of Richardson. But I still think we're headed in the same direction. Not as quickly and not as spectacularly, but make no mistake, we're going out the league unless something changes at the top. Lets not forget that even under Richardson, we had a spell at the top of Division 3 before he went and sold all the best players. But we still knew the club was rotten and going nowhere but down. I have the same feeling now. We receive nothing in the way of substantive reassurance from the Board as to what the actual aims and ambitions of the owners actually are. Is it survival as a football club and nothing more? Is it promotion from League 2? Do they still have the aspirations to own a Championship Club as they trumpeted in the 5 year Plan? It's all smoke and mirrors and something is clearly playing out behind the scenes here of which we're not being made aware. Whilst Silent Majority has flatly refused on five occasions (and counting) to confirm where exactly our current budget would place us in the football pyramid, he has however very recently confirmed that Blunt and Baldwin are very much equal owners in the truest sense of the word alongside Bramall. Nobody has ever been told how they came to be owners, what they have paid into the club and what they receive in return for their valuable equity stakes. The only comment we have on that from Silent Majority is "it's complicated". I'm afraid that's not good enough from a fans representative. The simple fact is that Baldwin, Blunt and Bramall are presiding over a decline of significant proportion which we're going to struggle to reverse. I cannot for the life of me work out what their end game is here and why they are even bothering when they clearly have no current interest in providing the level of financial support required for us to have a club competing at League 1/Championship level. They seem barely interested in having a League 2 club....If they want out, running the club down like this seems a funny way to go about it as presumably we're worth less as an asset now than we were when we were a League 1 club. So what on earth are they actually playing at? Is it jobs for the boys and a nice pay packet Baldwin forevermore? Is it instead this truly pure altruistic motive to ensure that the good folk of Doncaster always have a club of some capacity, even if it is a tin-pot non-league outfit with no fans in scruffy stadium? Do they actually want to sell the club, in which case it might help to come out and say so? Is there a boardroom squabble playing out? Is it linked to how Blunt and Baldwin suddenly became one third owners in the club?! Who knows. If only we had someone on the board who could ask the difficult questions. Silent Majority assures us that he does indeed ask those questions and he does hold the board's "feet to the fire". Lovely to hear. Unfortunately however, he never shares answers to the difficult to questions, or at least not ones that may show the board in a negative light. The concept of the VSC was established to prevent the club ever finding itself in the position it was in back in the late 90s and to provide a level of transparency and reassurance that had been sadly lacking in the past. I don't believe that it is working in that way at present.
I started reading this post thinking it was about the club, but it's not, its more about me and the VSC than a genuine attempt to discover the goings on in the club. When questions are asked in a respectful manner I usually try and answer them, however most of the questions from certain posters are there to poke me with a stick rather that elicit an answer, for that reason I choose to ignore certain ones. I'm not refusing to answer, I'm choosing to ignore them, there's a difference.I'll try and keep my responses short here, but I guarantee that some of what you're asking will need a lot of explanation. Firstly, let me clear about who and what I represent as I'm always being told by certain posters that I don't represent them, fair enough, but don't get annoyed when I then choose to ignore your question, you can't have it both ways. I'm a board member of the VSC and also it's secretary. There are other board members too, I'm not alone.I'm not on the Shadow Board, I resigned from there some months ago after a dispute with the club and the Chair. I'm not going into details and I've never mentioned it on here but the news was posted in the VSC members section some time ago, and was also part of my plan to try and retire from football related organisations as best as I can. The VSC by the way is a supporters trust that was set up to ensure that we can ask the tough questions to make sure that we don't suffer the fate that we did under the Richardson years and also be a legitimate body that can step in as owners if that was ever required. As you know many clubs are in supporter ownership, either partly or fully, and we would be ready to step up if this was the case. Meanwhile we'll support ownership that we believe is ensuring the club doesn't go out of business. We were John Ryans biggest supporters and the relationship was very strong between both parties. Andy Liney saw through the Keepmoat project and was also a supporter director of DRFC, raising funds as best we could and handing that over to JR when asked. We stopped supporting JR when his activities threatened the clubs future. By the same token we've supported TB and DW when they steered the club in the right direction.As part of that process we see that the club is functioning financially and that there are no threats around the corner which causes us major issues. The playing budget is not part of that process. However we do ask that question as committed DRFC supporters. Its not something that I like to expand on, however its important to note that the difference between LG2 and LG1 is quite massive when it comes to solidarity payments and our share of TV revenue. For that reason its easier to balance the books in LG1 than it is in LG2. As we suffer a reduction in revenue that's always reflected then in the playing budget. Our current budget would see us in the top 10 in this division. I wouldn't know the exact position, but knowing what I do I would say the disparity isn't that great across most of the middle section of the league. In other words a lot of clubs would have similar budgets.Now, are the owners aware of the current situation and do they care? I can guarantee that GB and TB are more than aware of the difficult situation that our on field performances are causing amongst the supporters and how desperate they are to see the club functioning properly again. Do I think that they are taking this seriously and will implement a solution to the current malaise? Yes I do. We may have to wait until next season thou as these things take time, after all we're too close to the end of this season for major changes to impact on the club.Is the club up for sale? Of course it is. I don't know how many times I have to type this out on here but I'll do it again. TB has always said that he'll step aside if somebody comes along who has the best intentions of the club at heart. He'll accept the substantial loss that is a forgone conclusion as the club would never sell at a level that would see any return on that money. Football clubs don't operate through estate agents though, most of it is done through the EFL anyway as they are the party that gives the green light when due diligence is done. So for those who keep demanding that TB sells up you'll get your way at some point, but it will be to the right party, one that we would want as owners.I meant to keep this short and sweet, and some of the detail has been left out. But, here's an offer I have made before, if Tommy C or anyone else for that matter doesn't like my answers, then PM me and I'll fix up a meeting with Gavin and you can ask the questions directly of him. I've done it for other people on this forum before and I'd be happy to set this up.
I thought we were told that we had a play off budget this season.Have I dreamed that?
Quote from: silent majority on March 24, 2023, 03:59:41 pmI started reading this post thinking it was about the club, but it's not, its more about me and the VSC than a genuine attempt to discover the goings on in the club. When questions are asked in a respectful manner I usually try and answer them, however most of the questions from certain posters are there to poke me with a stick rather that elicit an answer, for that reason I choose to ignore certain ones. I'm not refusing to answer, I'm choosing to ignore them, there's a difference.I'll try and keep my responses short here, but I guarantee that some of what you're asking will need a lot of explanation. Firstly, let me clear about who and what I represent as I'm always being told by certain posters that I don't represent them, fair enough, but don't get annoyed when I then choose to ignore your question, you can't have it both ways. I'm a board member of the VSC and also it's secretary. There are other board members too, I'm not alone.I'm not on the Shadow Board, I resigned from there some months ago after a dispute with the club and the Chair. I'm not going into details and I've never mentioned it on here but the news was posted in the VSC members section some time ago, and was also part of my plan to try and retire from football related organisations as best as I can. The VSC by the way is a supporters trust that was set up to ensure that we can ask the tough questions to make sure that we don't suffer the fate that we did under the Richardson years and also be a legitimate body that can step in as owners if that was ever required. As you know many clubs are in supporter ownership, either partly or fully, and we would be ready to step up if this was the case. Meanwhile we'll support ownership that we believe is ensuring the club doesn't go out of business. We were John Ryans biggest supporters and the relationship was very strong between both parties. Andy Liney saw through the Keepmoat project and was also a supporter director of DRFC, raising funds as best we could and handing that over to JR when asked. We stopped supporting JR when his activities threatened the clubs future. By the same token we've supported TB and DW when they steered the club in the right direction.As part of that process we see that the club is functioning financially and that there are no threats around the corner which causes us major issues. The playing budget is not part of that process. However we do ask that question as committed DRFC supporters. Its not something that I like to expand on, however its important to note that the difference between LG2 and LG1 is quite massive when it comes to solidarity payments and our share of TV revenue. For that reason its easier to balance the books in LG1 than it is in LG2. As we suffer a reduction in revenue that's always reflected then in the playing budget. Our current budget would see us in the top 10 in this division. I wouldn't know the exact position, but knowing what I do I would say the disparity isn't that great across most of the middle section of the league. In other words a lot of clubs would have similar budgets.Now, are the owners aware of the current situation and do they care? I can guarantee that GB and TB are more than aware of the difficult situation that our on field performances are causing amongst the supporters and how desperate they are to see the club functioning properly again. Do I think that they are taking this seriously and will implement a solution to the current malaise? Yes I do. We may have to wait until next season thou as these things take time, after all we're too close to the end of this season for major changes to impact on the club.Is the club up for sale? Of course it is. I don't know how many times I have to type this out on here but I'll do it again. TB has always said that he'll step aside if somebody comes along who has the best intentions of the club at heart. He'll accept the substantial loss that is a forgone conclusion as the club would never sell at a level that would see any return on that money. Football clubs don't operate through estate agents though, most of it is done through the EFL anyway as they are the party that gives the green light when due diligence is done. So for those who keep demanding that TB sells up you'll get your way at some point, but it will be to the right party, one that we would want as owners.I meant to keep this short and sweet, and some of the detail has been left out. But, here's an offer I have made before, if Tommy C or anyone else for that matter doesn't like my answers, then PM me and I'll fix up a meeting with Gavin and you can ask the questions directly of him. I've done it for other people on this forum before and I'd be happy to set this up.Thanks also for the response.One thing I just cannot get out my head, it is driving me mad to be honest.You’ve said it here and GB said it at the MTO… it is easier to balance the books in L1 than L2.So why the chuff we would appoint Gary McSheffrey when we were bang in trouble is an absolute mystery. It feels like neglect to be honest.
Having considered this a bit more, the comments on the drop in revenues from League 1 to League 2 are I am sure valid and welcome insights. However, the board used to inject a couple of million into the playing budget each year beyond our "sustainable club" budget as they aspired to Championship football. They stated they didnt want to stay in League 1 and they wanted more. The aim was to get to the Championship and stay there and they invested at a level to achieve that. They no longer invest at that level. All of that is fact based on statements made by representatives of the club. Surely the reason behind that change could be explained to the fans? Why have the board effectively pulled their investment? Do I really need to make an appointment to speak to Gavin to ask him about it? What level of football do they aspire to and what are they prepared to bankroll? What are they actually in this for?
In the face of denial from the Board of there being a problem, the question of how our collective alarm might best be made clear to those in charge has been discussed.I cannot claim to have read every word written on the subject and this suggestion may have been already made, but surely the DFP and the Yorkshire Post would want to give publicity to this. It is a major crisis amongst the loyal fan base. When clubs hit crises this sort of thing is front-page news in the local press. In these circumstances you would not expect Steve Jones or Leon Wobschall to author such a piece, so ideally it would need to be written by a long-time season ticket holder who also follows them away from home. Having admired the writing of numerous contributors to this forum I have no doubt that a powerful article could be composed. Presenting this to the Editor needs to be carefully thought through, but I would be surprised if he/she were not interested.With its recent elevation to city status this has a civic pride angle. It is ironic that its very recently-appointed Freeman seems to be blind to the wider damage to Doncaster's image.